I lost a tournament because of this match up

Lex Crunch · Aug 10, 2008

It was the semi-finals and I lost to Cap'n Olimar. It doesn't even matter if the Olimar is that awesome, but each and every time I fight Olimar with Ike, I either get really really nervous, or lose (even when I'm not nervous). There's just something keeping me from winning against him. Are there any particular strategies to keep this from happening so perpetually? The most annoying of all is how the reds are immune to Eruption and how the Pikmin actually intercept the QD, no matter where they are. I'd have to completely change my normal strategies just to fight one measly character! I require assistance before my friends catch on.

Falconv1.0 · Aug 10, 2008

I wish people would accept that they need to use counterpicks. Seriously, it's so stupid and ignorant not too unless you aren't really serious and really good, like Gimpy with Bowser, lol.

I main Kirby. You think I'm going to use him every game? **** no. Ike is not a smart main for tourneys.

So, counterpick, that's my advice, unless you really want to struggle.

Rutger · Aug 10, 2008

Falcon's advice is probably best, Olimar is a pain and you would be better off with someone else.

But if you are really stubborn then look in the I wright for my friends guide near the end, Ussi gave a good match up description so look for that.

Lex Crunch · Aug 10, 2008

I figured so, the day after it was over, but I just refuse to accept that there is no chance of winning against one particular character, it's just... unacceptable! But still, what if they were using Tourney Mode? You can't counterpick there, since your character is set in stone after the entrants.

metroid1117 · Aug 10, 2008

It would be more helpful to provide a video of you fighting to Olimar so we can critique it rather than giving general advice.

1) NEVER try to use QD to recover unless Olimar is far away from the edge - too far away to even throw Pikmin at you. Appropriate times would be when you get D/FSmashed or F/BAired to the other side of the stage. For all other times, use Aether to recover.

2) Never use QD as an approach; his Pikmin will stop you cold. Instead, either approach from the air or on the ground with running and shielding.

3) Gimp, gimp, gimp, and gimp the little alien. Once he's off the stage, grab the edge. If you're fighting an inexperienced Olimar, reverse Aether while on the edge can lead to an easy Aetherspike (while on the edge, press back+up+B and then hold towards the stage). Other times, you'll just have to time your edgehogs so that you get on the edge before he does. My personal favorite way to edgehog is to just put my back to the edge and short-hop off the stage. That way, I bait my opponent to up+B and I just fastfall to get to the edge first.

4) Pressure Olimar when he comes back to the stage after he dies; that way, he'll be hard-pressed to pull out all his Pikmin and you can control the tide of the match from there. From the very start of his stock, force him on the defensive but keep him close enough that he can't stand back and Pikmin spam.

5) His throws are dangerous depending what color Pikmin he has; F/BThrow with blue Pikmin can kill and UThrow with purple Pikmin can kill as well. At low %s, DThrow can set up for virtually anything; either purposely take some hits from Pikmin spam (to be sent flying too far when you do get thrown) or DI away the best you can to escape.

Ussi · Aug 10, 2008

Olimar can't grab ike of the ledge. He's one the ones immune to that. Let me re read into that.

I read it. Ike does NOT get grabbed off the ledge. But be wary of being grabbed before reaching the ledge. Aether will protect you though.

doom dragon 105 · Aug 10, 2008

Dont Blame the match up i bet he was better than you to start and then the match helped a little and also counter pick stages. use stages that gives a disadvantage to your opponent

metroid1117 · Aug 10, 2008

Ussi said:
Olimar can't grab ike of the ledge. He's one the ones immune to that. Let me re read into that.

My mistake; I read that he can do it to Marth, so I assumed that it works on all other characters. I just tried it myself and yes, Ike cannot be grabbed from the edge by Olimar.

Ussi · Aug 10, 2008

He can do it to marth cause he has short stubby arms but not Ike since Ike has manly arms.

smashfriend · Aug 10, 2008

Lex Crunch said:
It was the semi-finals and I lost to Cap'n Olimar. It doesn't even matter if the Olimar is that awesome, but each and every time I fight Olimar with Ike, I either get really really nervous, or lose (even when I'm not nervous). There's just something keeping me from winning against him. Are there any particular strategies to keep this from happening so perpetually? The most annoying of all is how the reds are immune to Eruption and how the Pikmin actually intercept the QD, no matter where they are. I'd have to completely change my normal strategies just to fight one measly character! I require assistance before my friends catch on.

i have that same problum

D_T · Aug 10, 2008

From my experience, Ike has really a couple ways to fight:
1. Come in from the air with nair/jab, but you have to land behind him or else you get grabbed every time.
2. Run up to him, and if he's grabbing, dash attack, if he's throwing/smashing/shielding, shield and grab him.

For #2, you have to work in spot dodge, jabs, etc. as the fight goes on, depending on his reactions.

Basically, jab and grab are your friends. Get Olimar above you or off the stage, and you're golden, he dies low %.

Lex Crunch · Aug 10, 2008

I gimp all the time, so that's not a problem. Also, yes, he was probably a good Olimar; I saw him actually using his Down B to organize Pikmin. I'm probably the most ******** with Olimar so I don't even know what good it does other than give him super armor.

Guilhe · Aug 10, 2008

Try this:

First of all, know how to counterpick stages. Chose battlefield as the stage is really small and has platforms on it. At Battlefield Olimar can’t run very far, the platforms give you more options on how to approach him and Olimar doesn’t need to be knocked very far to lose a stock. Do not allow Luigi’s Mansion to be chosen, as Olimar will be camping inside the mansion first floor making your approach almost impossible (if you don’t destroy the whole mansion that is). I have heard that Olimar may find some difficulties recovering at Frigate Orpheon… I don’t know for sure.

I recommend you to approach him by the air, using your aerials to take out the Pikmins he throws at you. If you approach him by the ground, he can punish you with his grab while you try to fend off his Pikmins. His grab is notably powerful and efficient punishing tool.

Be patient, as he can throw and unearth Pikmins at a fast rate and he should be distance himself from you, your approach will be very slow.

Approach Olimar using Nair, as it auto cancels when you reach the ground. So even if Olimar evade or shield your Nair, you can follow up with another move. All the Olimars I have seen so far use grab as their main short range attack, so be ready to spot dodge after you’ve landed from Nair. If you manage to hit Olimar, pressure him and don’t let him get away.

__V · Aug 11, 2008

Gimp&Aerials.

Falconv1.0 · Aug 11, 2008

Rutger said:
Falcon's advice is probably best.

Sig'ing this.

Kodachrome · Aug 11, 2008

Falconv1.0 said:
Sig'ing this.

Go ahead, @sshat. Still doesn't legitimize the arrogance constantly spewing from your cornhole all over these boards. <_<

I DO agree with Falcon here, though. I despise the way he goes about phrasing things, failing to realize that unnecessary harsh words lead to polarized parties who wouldn't agree if you told them the sky were blue...but he's still right.

Find another character to keep in your back pocket; there are plenty in brawl. Granted, not many are good, but there's variety enough to keep anybody happy. Myself, I prefer Marth. I'm a huge fan of disjointed hitboxes/range/power/priority/lithe controls/you-get-the-picture.

As Falcon has pissed and moaned at us about so many times before, a player can only compensate for any given character's vulnerabilities so much. Certain characters just r@pe Ike's face, and the only thing you can do is suck it up and accommodate...unless you like losing to counterpicks.

*expects to be called out on hypocrisy.* <_<

D_T · Aug 11, 2008

If you're going to pick another character vs. several matchups, just don't even bother playing Ike. Just pick a better character altogether. Yea, you can pick MK and own Olimar, great counterpick. In fact, MK has a better matchup against just about every other character.

If you want the best odds of winning, be MK. I'm pretty sure most people know that.
You should assume that if the original poster wanted to play another character, they would.

Kodachrome · Aug 11, 2008

One shouldn't assume anything, really. But if one were to, one would also assume that a tourney-goer might want to win consistently while still being able to rep his main man Ike. <_<

A main's a main for a reason. He likes Ike, he doesn't like Metaknight. I see where you're going with this. However, I'm sure he is also very fond of winning. Telling people they should just change characters if they want to change at ALL is kinda silly-really almost insinuates that you're calling him a sellout if they DO change. All or nothing mentalities ftl. <_<

Falconv1.0 · Aug 11, 2008

Kodachrome said:
Go ahead, @sshat. Still doesn't legitimize the arrogance constantly spewing from your cornhole all over these boards. <_<

I DO agree with Falcon here, though. I despise the way he goes about phrasing things, failing to realize that unnecessary harsh words lead to polarized parties who wouldn't agree if you told them the sky were blue...but he's still right. Find another character to keep in your back pocket; there are plenty in brawl. Granted, not many are good, but there's variety enough to keep anybody happy. Myself, I prefer Marth. I'm a huge fan of disjointed hitboxes/range/power/priority/lithe controls/you-get-the-picture.

As Falcon has pissed and moaned at us about so many times before, a player can only compensate for any given character's vulnerabilities so much. Certain characters just r@pe Ike's face, and the only thing you can do is suck it up and accommodate...unless you like losing to counterpicks.

*expects to be called out on hypocrisy.* <_<

Note that generally my opinions are actually supported, they're just stated in a rude way. I'm very mean when bored, lol. Ask anyone who knows me personally, they either think I'm a total *** hole or some sort of angel, lolz.

As for my opinions on Ike, eh, regardless, I still defend that he's mid tier worthy. He's got some cool options, like Samus, but the problem is that people **** him so hard it's not even funny. If he returns in a future Smash, I really hope they do to him what they did to Bowser in Brawl, and make him awesome, and something to be proud of.

Kodachrome · Aug 11, 2008

I know your opinions are generally supported. That's why I just ripped on your general attitude.

It's hard enough to stay positive hanging around the Ike boards as it is, though.

I'm not a falconv hater, I just had to get my shots in like everybody else. *coughryokocough* :laugh:

Cerealsly, though. On-topic, a character is a tool. Take that as ye will, metaknight users. <_<

Falconv1.0 · Aug 11, 2008

Kodachrome said:
I know your opinions are generally supported. That's why I just ripped on your general attitude. It's hard enough to stay positive hanging around the Ike boards as it is, though.

I'm not a falconv hater, I just had to get my shots in like everybody else. *coughryokocough*

Cerealsly, though. On-topic, a character is a tool. Take that as ye will, metaknight users. <_<

lol Meta Knight users. People hate on him because he wins the most. There are characters that actually have a chance of beating him, hell, Sliq even contends Boozer can fight MK, and his points are pretty valid. Hopefully in another 5 months the whole "MK and Snake beat everything" bs will chill.

And here's some food for thought, use MK or Marth as a counterpick if Ike wont do too well in the match up. They're generally good characters and they'refun to use, so why the hell not?

Barge · Aug 11, 2008

@ Commenter on first page, Battlefield is Olimars turf.

Megavitamins · Aug 11, 2008

Falconv1.0 said:
lol Meta Knight users. People hate on him because he wins the most. There are characters that actually have a chance of beating him, hell, Sliq even contends Boozer can fight MK, and his points are pretty valid. Hopefully in another 5 months the whole "MK and Snake beat everything" bs will chill.

And here's some food for thought, use MK or Marth as a counterpick if Ike wont do too well in the match up. They're generally good characters and they'refun to use, so why the hell not?

People hate on MK because he's a broken gumball with wings, and a piss sword.

Relevant to the topic, like falcon said, if its really just the match up thats giving you trouble its best to pick up a main that does well against the alien that is lolimar.

Falconv1.0 · Aug 11, 2008

Megavitamins said:
People hate on MK because he's a broken gumball with wings, and a piss sword.

Please tell me that part was a joke.

The main things Ike has to worry about are people with good projectiles and good gimping ability. MK kills him because once Ike's is off stage, he has no really way of defending himself.

My problem with Ike is that he doesn't have any good match ups that I'm aware of with the top characters. I could see Marth vs. Ike being even, but that's it.

Arturito_Burrito · Aug 11, 2008

Falconv1.0 said:
My problem with Ike is that he doesn't have any good match ups that I'm aware of with the cop characters. I could see Marth vs. Ike being even, but that's it.

Cop Characters win tournaments after all.

Kodachrome · Aug 12, 2008

10cops.

oh$hit! run, bish, run!

Lex Crunch · Aug 12, 2008

D_T said:
If you're going to pick another character vs. several matchups, just don't even bother playing Ike. Just pick a better character altogether. Yea, you can pick MK and own Olimar, great counterpick. In fact, MK has a better matchup against just about every other character.

If you want the best odds of winning, be MK. I'm pretty sure most people know that.
You should assume that if the original poster wanted to play another character, they would.

What happened to this thread? Anyway, my personal philosophy of the game is that there is no character better than another. I don't know if that's true or not, but that being said, I hate playing as MK. I tried to like him, but I couldn't, so that won't work. I think I've got the hang of it, though, maybe. The Down and Forward Smashes work out well against his Pikmin should they become a nuisance.

Falconv1.0 · Aug 12, 2008

Arturito_Burrito said:
Cop Characters win tournaments after all.

I made big stoopidz.

I hope this makes it up.

@Lex Crunch: That's kinda ignorant.

Rykoshet · Aug 12, 2008

Play your main then of MKs just take charizard and beat the **** out of them for it.

Falconv1.0 · Aug 12, 2008

Rykoshet said:
Play your main then of MKs just take charizard and beat the **** out of them for it.

I think you may have accidentally ****ed up writing that. Do you mean play your main then FOR MK's pick Charizard?

How exactly does Charizard counter MK, and one Pokemon out of three, ehhhhhhh.

(Maybe I just misread it, just trying to understand, lol.)

Rykoshet · Aug 12, 2008

Charizard kinda ***** MK pretty hard honestly, rock smash and flame breath outprioritize most of what MK can do to you (and build up damage on a light character) and his hard hitting moves (which have deceptively huge range, including the up smash) get rid of MK in rather short order. I honestly wouldnt have believed it either until I saw it at one of the weeklies. And yeah the problem is squirtle (and more notably ivysaur) kind of leave you meh'd since at best youll have charizard out for only 2 of the 3 stocks.

One of my secondaries that I really should like... bother using more than never is diddy kong, but that's specifically just for MK fights, when it comes to projectiles i'm not really as flustered as many people think an ike user should be, just feels normal to me.

Lex Crunch · Aug 12, 2008

Falconv1.0 said:
@Lex Crunch: That's kinda ignorant.

I tried to keep it from sounding that way, but seriously, I tried, and I just didn't enjoy the character. I didn't like the gliding, or the A spam, or most of his specials, and most of all, his lackluster kill moves. I'm not saying he's bad (who can?), just that I don't like him.

Back on subject, I found a guinea pig who was willing to play as Olimar against me at least a hundred times, and now I'm feeling more confident. Aerial strikes, Down and Forward smashes seem to be the most effective method of getting around Olimar's annoyance alongside gimping, of course.

Falconv1.0 · Aug 12, 2008

Lex Crunch said:
I tried to keep it from sounding that way, but seriously, I tried, and I just didn't enjoy the character. I didn't like the gliding, or the A spam, or most of his specials, and most of all, his lackluster kill moves. I'm not saying he's bad (who can?), just that I don't like him.

Back on subject, I found a guinea pig who was willing to play as Olimar against me at least a hundred times, and now I'm feeling more confident. Aerial strikes, Down and Forward smashes seem to be the most effective method of getting around Olimar's annoyance alongside gimping, of course.

I meant it's ignorant to think characters aren't better. MK has amazing priority, he gimps like a freaking mofo, his down smash is amazing for killing, his up b is also amazing sauce, his aerial game is easily one of the best in the game, it's kinda hard to not see see how he's easily one of the best characters in the game. There's nothing wrong with disliking him, lol.

@Ryko: Thanks for that info, lol. I'll remember that next time I play a few friendlies with teh Pokemanz.

Tsukuyomi · Aug 12, 2008

I actually lost to Olimar at a tournament too (this tournament is ******** where counterpick isn't allowed, but I like Ike because I want to be awesome)...

Well, only note I can give you... NEVER USE QUICKDASH AGAINST OLIMAR!!! If you want to use it, use it as an escape option, not an advancing option...

As to fighting it, just fight like regular without Quick Dash... Advance with your basic N-air/F-air, damage rack with jabs, finish off and hug the edge for the win... Olimar may have some range advantage against you with its grabs and smashes, but you have a better air battle with your sword range over his Pikmin range...

Falconv1.0 · Aug 12, 2008

How about just never use Quick Dash? There are like a few set ups that I think Empy mentioned, and none them are the way most people think of.

I oughtta go find those.

Edit-

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5005280&postcount=46

Got it. Yay.

Lex Crunch · Aug 12, 2008

Falconv1.0 said:
I meant it's ignorant to think characters aren't better. MK has amazing priority, he gimps like a freaking mofo, his down smash is amazing for killing, his up b is also amazing sauce, his aerial game is easily one of the best in the game, it's kinda hard to not see see how he's easily one of the best characters in the game. There's nothing wrong with disliking him, lol..

I don't know if "ignorant" is the right word to use. I'm not really disregarding anything about the characters, nor am I advocating or over glorifying them. I see some great things in Ike that appeal specifically to me, and many others see the great things in other characters, like Metaknight, and they appeal to them. If you want to continue on the subject, then I'd prefer if it were in the form of PM's, so we can get back on topic.

So let me just compile what I've got so far:

Don't QD to attack or advance
Dsmash and Fsmash seem to work well
Gimping is a definite must
Aerial strikes work, too.

Can't wait to try.

I lost a tournament because of this match up

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