Lucario Vs. Samus (Match-Up Export)

• Samus, with her low ability to KO, will be happy to try and spike (meteor smash, whatever you wanna call it) you early, since her down-air covers a rather wide arc. Her down-tilt, which many call her best KO move, is pretty hard to set-up, and it will probably be saved for punishing.
  
  While you CAN crawl under the super missles and grapple beam (z-air, not the grab), homing missles will still hit you. Though homing missles are slow and you can shield or roll past them easily. I think spot dodging doesn't cut it though. However chances are, you'll probably head for the air to avoid these missles, and this is where Samus wants you. However, despite this being where she wants you, you're perfectly fine here too, since your aerials are pretty much better than hers. Her f-air covers a pretty decent amount of space, though it's damage isn't spectacular, but it can still rack up damage, because it's not hard to hit with. Just beat her to the punch and f-air her first. Her up air is another damage-racker, but you can probably stop it with your down-air of combo breaking. You'll want to be careful of her dangerous back air. It's actually pretty powerful, and it's a decent kill move, 'specially if it's fresh. On flat stages, like Final Destination, it'll be harder for her to get that back air in, since from, at least my experience with Samus, it's easier to connect the back air if the opponent is on a platform.
  
  One of Samus' key moves is her Screw Attack, since (I think) many of her moves combo into it, and it racks up a great amount of damage. Should you ever get hit by her dash attack, be ready to eat a follow-up with her Screw Attack, although I believe you can DI out. While she probably won't be approaching with her dash attack, it can be a surprise or a punisher attack, so don't get sloppy. In close quarters, her smashes aren't that slow, but they are lacking a bit in range. I don't really know the uses of her up smash, but her down smash knocks you upward (not enough to KO you in most cases though), and her forward smash isn't all that threatening because it's pretty short ranged. It's still kind of quick though. Her forward tilt has nice range to it, but it seems like a pretty slow move. I'm not sure how Samus players use it. Her up tilt is a lot like Captain Falcon's up tilt. It's a huge arc, and it seems like a spacing move.
  
  Oh and Recovery-wise, she's not easy to gimp, but she's not hard to attack while she recovers in my opinion. Well, unless she's using bombs. They give her a sort of stall as she recovers. Also bombs are mostly just a small annoyance really. They'll rack up damage if you're careless but otherwise you pretty much have the advantage because you out range her, you can kill much easier than she can, and your only real issue is getting past the camping times.
  -Pentaoku

• Z-air: Samus' most overly-used aerial. This aerial has got a lot going for it. Z-air is her most ranged aerial move, which makes it perfect for spacing, it comes out dangerously quick, and is lagless upon landing. Without a doubt, you are going to be seeing a lot of Z-airs while playing a competent Samus. So how do you deal with it? You can either air dodge it, which is much more simple than it actually sounds, or approach from above. All in all, don't let her Z-air intimidate you; just play it smart, and it shouldn't give you much of a problem.
• D-tilt: This is Samus' main KO move, and with good reason. This move is surprisingly powerful (don't worry, it's not as intense as it was in Melee), and comes out too quick for comfort. Expect to see a lot of jab>d-tilt.
• D-air: Another of Samus' primary killing moves. It's not unfairly fast, but it is a spike, so be wary while recovering. A grounded d-air will KO you at about 170%. Your u-air will easily out-prioritize her d-air.
• Bombs: At first glance, these tiny little buggers may not seem like such a problem, but after being bombarded by a dozen within 10 seconds, you will understand why her bombs are a force to be reckoned with. Samus will drop her bombs while descending, which not only keep you from jumping up and attacking her, but also give her much more control in the air. Samus will also use her bombs as a substitue for her abysmal roll.
• Missiles: Samus' main projectile. There are two types of Missiles; Homing missles, which do less damage but home in on you, and Charged missiles, which do much more damage, but travel in a straight line. You'll see an equal amount of both in a match. Homing missiles are used to camp, and Charged missiles are used for a KO. The most important thing to know is that the ending animation of her Missile shot can be canceled by landing. Missiles shouldn't be too hard to avoid; just make sure you don't mess up.

• Don't play so defensively: Samus will win. She has a much better defensive-or at least a better camping-game than you. Just be on the lookout for any openings. You need to stay on her butt so she can't use her missiles and especially her zair. Spacing is absolutely crucial to this match-up. The largest advantage Lucario has, I think, is that she has very few approach options on us. Woot! Usually, a Samus will use their dash attack to approach you after spamming missiles and zair, so be weary of that, and be ready to punish it. It's generally followed by the ftilt or the dsmash, so watch out for those two moves. Using DT isn't such a good idea, because her moves are pretty quick. Still usable, but very situational. Your ftilt will be very useful. Also, crawling underneath her zair and using a dtilt seems to be very effective if you time it right. If not, then she lands and punishes you. Her recovery is pretty good, so don't try to chase her, unless she's bomb jumping and you think you can hit her in the small frames of lag that that move has. Just try to maintain a middle distance from her, but not too far away or you risk projectile and zair spammage.
  -Erich
  
• There are two ways to beat Samus: The Melee way, and the Camping way.
  
  First: The Melee way.
  
  She'll approach with her aerials (Most likely Dair and Fair) as well as Zair. A good Samus will not roll, and will use her bombs' mobility as a substitute, so don't get caught in a laggy attack with one nearby. Whatever you do, do NOT get knocked off the stage. As soon as you're off the stage, you're COMPLETELY SCREWED. A good Samus will spike you straight out of ES. (One of the few times I wish it dealt damage. ;-; ). Basically, it'll be a tough fight, as Zair outranges EVERYTHING. Go with the specialized FP>Fair>FFNair>A-A-FP>Fair>FFNair combo at the start for damage if you can.
  
  The campy way... well...
  Basically, just spam Aura Sphere, and you win. Samus SUCKS against camping. She literally can NOT do anything about it. Sure, charge shot clanks with AS, but you spam them MUCH faster. Also, missiles suck. Any disjointed hitbox goes through it. That means fair, ftilt, EVERYTHING, and Aura Sphere at high %. It's cheap, but it works. She can't do anything to you out of Zair range.
  -Kitamerby

• Good counter pick
  
  Final Destination: Anything out of her zair range is going to get her stomped. FD=great stage for you. Camp her. She's forced to go over the auraspheres (or powershield through them) which leaves her in a bad position. If she's getting a hail of projectiles thrown at her, she can't space with zair. It's that simple. Kitamerby hit the nail on the head with it. Samus can't camp, not against a player with superior projectiles (which is like everyone lol.)
  -Timbers
  
  Frigate Orpheon : Platforms to somewhat avoid her camping and during the first half of the stage, she will be hard pressed to recover on the side without a ledge. On the downside, the little platforms in the 2nd half of the stage can and will save her at times.
  
  Jungle Japes: Protection from her spike, she can't camp as well due to the different level platforms and her somewhat poor recovery might allow an early kill from the rushing water.
  
  Pokemon Stadium 1: Personally I think this stage is an OK option. You are able to avoid the projectile spam and in some situations force her to be up close constantly. In addition, you can stage spike nicely here with dair.
  
  Luigi's Mansion: Protection from her mainly upwards kill moves. Teching can lead to a nice aura boost and the walls protect from spam. Overall a really good stage.
  -Kasai
  
  
  
• So-So
  
  Halberd: Decent. Some ways to avoid the camping but at the same time they make you vulnerable to zair. Not the worst pick but much better options are available
  
  Green Greens : Protection from camping and easy to kill off the side with dair due to the very close blast walls.
  
  Norfair: Neutral I think. Hard to camp on but at the same time, the platforms make it really easy for Samus to zair spam.
  
  
  
• Avoid
  
  BattleField: Please, DO NOT PLAY SAMUS HERE! BattleField is Samus' haven. She can combo you all over the place. Avoid BattleField at all costs.
  
  Smashville: Camping
  
  Yoshi's Island (brawl) : See above
  
  Delfino : I would avoid this one. Good camping potential with the walk offs and she can gimp better than you can due to the water at some points.

Jeepy Sol said:

~Rotation 4~ Samus (pg. 23-29)

i am sorry to bump this old topic up but i main samus and i have some valuable info for this thread. this seems to be the only reference to a samus match up and it is flawed. some of the info is inaccurate and if ppl plan on truly learning the match up, a few things should be mentioned.


[*]Samus, with her low ability to KO, will be happy to try and spike (meteor smash, whatever you wanna call it) you early, since her down-air covers a rather wide arc. Her down-tilt, which many call her best KO move, is pretty hard to set-up, and it will probably be saved for punishing.


the dtilt is not that hard to set up. it has decent range in front of samus (maybe more than her fsmash, but dont hold me to it). also, dont expect a samus to never use it during a game until the end. it has combo potential (ex. dtilt to uair) and many samus's use it for just that early on in the game. so like i said, dont just forget about it until u reach a dangerous percentage.

While you CAN crawl under the super missles and grapple beam (z-air, not the grab), homing missles will still hit you. Though homing missles are slow and you can shield or roll past them easily. I think spot dodging doesn't cut it though. However chances are, you'll probably head for the air to avoid these missles, and this is where Samus wants you. However, despite this being where she wants you, you're perfectly fine here too, since your aerials are pretty much better than hers. Her f-air covers a pretty decent amount of space, though it's damage isn't spectacular, but it can still rack up damage, because it's not hard to hit with. Just beat her to the punch and f-air her first.


dont be so naive. a good samus wont just blindly approach with fair in hopes to rack up some damage. a good samus would probably shoot a missile AND zair when it comes your way(far out of reach of any aerial lucario has to offer) . its most likely you will be forced to air dodge as opposed to fairing. imo and experience, it is easy to hit with at least one or the other or both projectiles in that situation.


One of Samus' key moves is her Screw Attack, since (I think) many of her moves combo into it, and it racks up a great amount of damage. Should you ever get hit by her dash attack, be ready to eat a follow-up with her Screw Attack, although I believe you can DI out. While she probably won't be approaching with her dash attack, it can be a surprise or a punisher attack, so don't get sloppy. In close quarters, her smashes aren't that slow, but they are lacking a bit in range. I don't really know the uses of her up smash, but her down smash knocks you upward (not enough to KO you in most cases though), and her forward smash isn't all that threatening because it's pretty short ranged. It's still kind of quick though.


ya, not to mention it is one of her best kill moves

Her forward tilt has nice range to it, but it seems like a pretty slow move. I'm not sure how Samus players use it. Her up tilt is a lot like Captain Falcon's up tilt. It's a huge arc, and it seems like a spacing move.


uhhh, ftilt is one of her fastest moves rivaling the speed of her nair, uair, and neutral a combo with just as little lag. its also a great spacer for those characters that like to go in samus's close combat zone (a zone she is not comfortable with i might add). you also might want to mention something about her utilt being one of her few kill moves. i personally dont use it much for spacing due to startup lag but thats just me.



Oh and Recovery-wise, she's not easy to gimp, but she's not hard to attack while she recovers in my opinion. Well, unless she's using bombs. They give her a sort of stall as she recovers. Also bombs are mostly just a small annoyance really. They'll rack up damage if you're careless but otherwise you pretty much have the advantage because you out range her, you can kill much easier than she can, and your only real issue is getting past the camping times.
-Pentaoku
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im not so sure about that easy to attack while recovering thing. i can see why you would say that because of moves like fair and bair but be cautious. with such great recovery, it is very easy to throw a meteor spike in the mix while recovering with samus and being as lucario doesn't do damage while recovering with his up b, it is almost impossible to survive the spike....at least imo



Homing missiles are used to camp, and Charged missiles are used for a KO.


HA, this isn't melee. u couldn't kill jiggs at 200% with a supermissle(an exaggeration) . the damage is about the only problem with these little guys.

The most important thing to know is that the ending animation of her Missile shot can be canceled by landing. Missiles shouldn't be too hard to avoid; just make sure you don't mess up.
[/LIST]

Match-Up: 65:35 (Advantage)


How to Win:

• Don't play so defensively: Samus will win. She has a much better defensive-or at least a better camping-game than you. Just be on the lookout for any openings. You need to stay on her butt so she can't use her missiles and especially her zair.
  
  Spacing is absolutely crucial to this match-up. The largest advantage Lucario has, I think, is that she has very few approach options on us. Woot! Usually, a Samus will use their dash attack to approach you after spamming missiles and zair, so be weary of that, and be ready to punish it. It's generally followed by the ftilt or the dsmash, so watch out for those two moves.
  
  
  not true. samus does in fact have approach options. she's got of course the dash attack (dont expect just that), zair, missiles, fair, and even sh dair. thats more than alot of characters. even lucario imo. and when you say it's generally followed by the ftilt or dsmash, thats not accurate. given the trajectory (probably right above her), a samus will most likely up b or jab cancel to a dtilt, dsmash, or ftilt. dont just expect a smash or tilt.
  
  so, like i said before, i hate to revive a dead topic but it is purely for (accurate) learning purposes. other than that, good job on the matchup

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Samuelson said:

Most of the people that discussed this matchup have lots of experience vs Tudor and Rohins.

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CREWS said:

if thats true then why is it wrong?

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