Match Up Discussion: Meta Knight ~

META KNIGHT​

Match Up: 4:6

This match up is one of Marths most frustrating to face, if not the worst. He out speeds Marth, as well as rivals and out ranges him in many circumstances. He is equipped with the best recovery in the game, and has the best approach, dash grab and offensive prowess of any character. His attacks are all equipped with little to no lag, and he has very advantageous specials to aid his move set. Gimping comes naturally, and it is near impossible to attempt the same to him. This character forces Marth to play a completely systematic, defensive play style in order to win in which few errors can be forgiven. This is Meta Knight.


Meta Knights Pros & Advantages

• Faster Running Speed
• Faster Attack Speed
• Less Lag On Attacks
• Superior Ground Game
• High Priority Specials
• Superior Approach
• Amazing Recovery
• Exceptional Gimp Ability
• Good Edge Guard Ability


Marths Pros & Advantages

• Heavier
• Superior Aerial Range
• Better Aerial Influence
• Excellent Defensive Game
• Higher Damage & Knockback
• Invincibility Frames (Counter/Dolphin Slash)
• Grab Release Set Ups


Strategy

Meta Knight has a much better approach than you, so unless you feel the need to devise something elaborate and unexpected, avoid approaching at all. Meta Knight also has an overall superior ground game compared to you with DTilt out ranging most of your moves besides an equally lengthy FSmash, so staying aerial in this match is essential to win. You must play completely defensive, and act accordingly to attacks he uses and mistakes he makes to effectively punish.

Defend:

Short Hop a lot, and keep those Shuffled Fairs going. Do not fail to Shuffle, as it will leave you open if the Fairs do not Auto Cancel. Weave in and out of his range. If he approaches, retreat and Fair. Also use DTilt in conjunction with Shuffled Fairs to keep a solid defense. You can also use Standard A to mix it up. If Meta Knight approaches too close with Fair, FTilt or DTilt, shield grab him and follow it up with a Release Grab set up via Dancing Blade (always green variations for damage at low %, blue variations at high % for set ups),Fair (if Meta Knight lands on a platform or if they're off stage from the Jump Break) or Dolphin Slash (KO method, absolute kill with DI at 130%+). These are the tools and methods to defending against Meta Knights onslaughts. Whatever you do, do not FTilt, as it lags far too much and is out ranged by Meta Knights FTilt and DTilt. Play it safe and don't leave openings.

Punish:

Punish his moves appropriately. If Marth grabs Meta Knight at 7% or lower, DThrow to FSmash will deal a free 24%+. If Marth grabs Meta Knight at a higher percent, it will lead to Grab Release set ups. Spot Dodge/Shield Grab FSmash and DSmash attempts and stick to grabs and Dancing Blades as counter attacks. If he uses Standard A, FSmash, DSmash, Dancing Blade, DTilt and Short Hop Counter work very well. Do not role around this move (or at all this match), as it will catch you on the other side along with a DSmash. If Meta Knight begins to approach with DTilt, time a Fair or DTilt of your own, or FSmash for an easy kill. Marth can hit Meta Knight out of his Tornado too through FSmash, Counter, Dancing Blade and Dolphin Slash. Shielding works if time is not allotted to counter it. To punish the Glide Attack, shield at lower percents and grab or Dolphin Slash at higher percents. If the opposing player tries to take advantage of your shield by canceling the glide without the attack, hit him with a Standard A which should clank with the Glide Attack or hit him on the way down.

DI Properly:

If Meta Knight ever catches you in his DThrow, always DI away unless you wish to eat a Shuttle Loop. Try to get into the habbit of Smash DIing the Fairs, Bairs and USmash to help prevent damage accumulation. If a Mach Tornado traps you, the best method to release is to not DI at all. Leave the control stick alone and Marth will bounce upwards and will be able to fast fall through the nado with an Air Dodge. For the Drill, simply Smash DI towards the the Drill. If performed properly, Marth will receive 1-2% damage and will escape early behind Meta Knight, able to punish with a plethora of options.


Recover Properly:

When recovering, you need to make sure that you use your Shield Breaker away from the stage further than usual, otherwise recovery will become predictable and thus punishable. Have awareness when Meta Knight is going to Edge Hog you, and use your Dancing Blade to stall if necessary, as you need to Dolphin Slash after the Invincibility Frames wear out. When climbing back on the stage, Ledge Hopping Air Dodges are the best method. Combine this with Ledge Fairs and Ledge Jumps to keep them guessing. Avoid Ledge Hop Nairs, as Meta Knight will simply Shield and DSmash you off again.

Knock Out Methods:

Meta Knight begins to die at around 130% from Dolphin Slash on Final Destination regardless of DI, so Grab Releases are a good set up. FSmashing Standard A's, DTilts and Tornados also work. Bair is often fresh, and out ranges all of Meta Knights aerials, so it too can be a good option if landed while guarding the edge.


Counter Picks:

• Smashville
• Final Destination
• PictoChat

Bans:

• Rainbow Cruise
• Norfair
• Luigis Mansion

As I said in the Ken's Quote thread, what helps for me as a Falco, whose matchup vs. Metaknight is an unfavorable 60-40 to 70-30 matchup, is to visualize Metaknight as a cross between Falco and Sheik from Melee.

MK's movements are much like Falco's - he has to commit to a consistently offensive form of play or to a playstyle that isn't actually "defensive" (i.e. places pressure from a distance and uses zoning) but tries to get on the offensive (i.e. Tornado spam, jab spam, ftilt, UpB -> GA spam). His moves are much like Sheik's - weak but can be followed up. However, much like Sheik, Metaknight has punishable areas as well. Note that MK's range is not like Sheik's in that his range is "deceptive" - his range extends a few pixels beyond the tip of his sword.

MK is a beast.

Let's get down to business.

MK's advantages in the match-up

- He is faster in running speed and attack speed.
- Very little lag on his moves.
- Very good B moves.
- Great approach.
- D-throw can set-up for follow-up attacks.
- Awesome recovery.
- Best edgeguarder in the game.

Marth's advantages in the match-up

- Marth is heavier while MK is one of the lightest characters in the game.
- Marth has more range.
- Marth has a better defensive game.
- More killing power.
- Counter shuts down MK's B moves and can really limit his rushdown game when used intelligently.
- Grab release shenanigans give Marth an extra tool in his arsenal.


Strategy - You have to camp MK. Give yourself enough range between the two of you so that you can react to anything he throws at you. I would not advise rushing him unless you are already somewhat close and you know he doesn't expect it at all. A good MK will not use B moves after you counter the, once or twice on reaction. After that they will rely more on dash attack, dash grab and shield cancelled tilts. SH fair will beat dash approaches. Marth will SH and MK will either miss his dash grab/attack and go past Marth or the Fair will cut into his back. He will try to time his approach so he catches you when you land. So make sure to be prepared to roll, jump away, dash away or w/e.

Also mix up your camping. You have fairs, d-tilt and f-tilt to camp with. So mess with your attacks, your timing and your spacing as you do these moves. This will mess with your opponent so when they rush you there is a greater chance that they will be outspaced by you or you can simply react to what they are doing because they were too hasty or chose a poor approach method at that time. Also if MK is abusing Dash approaches then you can dash back to Dancing Blade to beat that.

There are different ways to deal with MK's rushdown once he gets past your camping. The key is to stop his onslaught and reset the equilibrium of the fight. If he grabs you then expect a different throw depending on your positioning on the stage and your percentage. After a d-throw expect MK to give chase with a Fair or another grab attempt. You can DI towards him and try to fair him to beat his attempt to follow-up. You may also try jumping away or counter if he has a tendency to just attack you. You may also want to try DIing away and teching if you can. U-throw will be used to get you into air so MK can keep you there or punish you on the way down. Be sure to fast fall before you airdodge so you can hit the ground sooner. A smart MK will wait till your about to touch the ground then either D-smash, U-smash or Grab. The last two options will just reset the situation. He can also up b of course. Well, the key to getting out of this is just to keep calm and know your options. Well, first off you can forward B stall to mess with his timing. And remember what I said before about fast falling to hit the ground sooner.

If he has a tendency to go for smashes when you are close to the ground then use counter. If you are high you can use neutral b to mess with your momentum somewhat. Just try different things and stay on your toes. If MK puts pressure on your shield with ANYTHING, you need to up b out of shield. If he is too far to hit with that, then roll away or SH away. If he is abusing tilts then remember that SH fair beats his d-tilt and f-smash will beat his f-tilt. All your tilts will beat his in range, but you need perfect spacing. If you fastfall fair his shield you can roll, spot dodge or up b. Avoid rolling towards MK. You will get D-smashed or eat something else. If he shield whores then you can pressure his shield with d-tilts and f-tilts. You might wanna try a Shieldbreaker if he really just wants to shield camp. Good MK's will shield camp if they know you are really good at camping with your range.

If he starts abusing up b shenanigans then you can do several things. Shield his glide attack then up b. Dash under him and U-smash. You can also counter the glide attack. Oh and random tidbit. If he dash attacks your shield do reverse up b out of shield to hit him.

Marth also has grab release shenanigans on MK. Grab him and let him jump break. You can get a free fair, Dolphin Slash or Dancing Blade. But the timing is tricky so be sure to practice.

When being edgeguarded try to come in high. Yes he can up b, but if you are smart at being able to tell when he would use it then you'll be ok. You also have to really know the max range vertical range of it. Mess around with shuttle loop in practice mode to get a feel for how high it goes. If you come in igh and try to go for the ledge be careful. MK will often d-smash you right before you can grab it. So either go low then up b, or counter it. If you are forced to go in low you must be on your game. Most of the time MK's will try to wait you out and edgehug or do late dairs. Be smart. Use your forward B to stall in the air then up b. When they get wise to that start using your up b early to plow right through them. Watch MK carefully so you can react to his actions.

If he gets a Uair chain on you at low damage try to smash DI each hit while mashing airdodge. That's the best thing to do. Good MK's will do 2 or 3 Uairs then just tornado since an up b would just miss you completely. Or they will let you airdodge past them so they can dair. You may want to try mixing up with your counter, but honestly you won't take too much damage and mashing airdodge combined with Smash DI forces MK to end the combo early. It's pretty much the safest thing to do.

That's pretty much it. Hopefully people will have much more to add.

Are you referring to my thread? Yeah it's outdated.

You still want to play a zoning game with him but grabbing is a bigger part of the game, and you use d-smash or dancing blade up combo as your primary kill moves depending on whether you've used dancing blade recently or not.

Of course if you see a grab opportunity and haven't used f-air release grab tipper f-air is good or if you ever see a tipper f-smash go for it although it's risky against metaknight because of the range and damage he does on his dash grab.

Also, on ledge recovery situations. If you're ever grabbing the ledge try to avoid ledge drop double jump aerial unless you know you'll tipper because what usually happens is the MK shields it then d-smashes you back off again.

Jump recovery with an invicibility aerial thrown in or ledge drop double jump air dodge recovery are the safer recoveries although being predictable with either will kill you so keep mixing it up.

marth does not have more range than metaknight when they are on the ground. Metaknight's ftilt, dtilt, and dash grab have more range than anything marth has on the ground. Marth's only chance of out spacing metaknight is in the air, and even that is hard. This is by far Marth's worse match up IMO. Everything marth normaly does, metaknight either has his own version that beats yours out or it just won't work.

the only thing I can think of is jumping backwards with the fair, out of shield punishment, and bringing the pain when you get close to him. Up b out of shield helps against the tornado and you may score a ko at the right %.

You are wrong. Move for move Marth BARELY outranges MK when you compare their tilts. But he does outrange him still.

You are on crack if you think this is Marth's worst match-up.

Play a good Snake then get back to me.

I still think marth is better off in the air where the difference in range is more favorible for marth. The 3rd hit on metaknight's ftilt has a lot of range, emblem lord. Even if marth does has slightly better range, your most likely not going to out space with your tilt do to it speed and priority.

Ok, just re-tested.

Marth's d-tilt has more range then MK's f-tilt. MK's d-tilt barely beats Marth's. The final hit of MK's f-tilt does have quite a bit of range. But what MK will throw out 3 of those to hit with third hit? Exactly. None.

Anyway, the thing that sucks most is MK's d-tilt. It has about a pixel more range then Marth's and it's 3 or 4 frames. So that means that Marth can't win out in range really. Well, the perfect spacing of MK's d-tilt is also the perfect range for Marth's tipper F-smash. So if MK abuses it then he sets himself up for that.

Still this is kinda depressing. Anyway, with this confirmed there is no doubt in my mind that this is 6/4 MK. If Marth could play a range game effectively it would mean his camping would be alot better vs MK. This is not the case. But it's still not Marth's worst match-up IMO.

I've only been maining marth for two weaks, so what do I know about his worse match ups?

You can still win in the air though.

grandmaster192 said:

I've only been maining marth for two weaks, so what do I know about his worse match ups?

You can still win in the air though.

Click to expand...

A smart MK will thrash you in the air. They won't be mindlessly spamming Shuttle Loop when they can Fair you to death or Nair you off and then play the edgeguarding game. A game where chances are most of us usually lose in. Bair is basically another Fair and can kill undiminished. Uair is used to keep you in the air because he excels there, and Dair can be used to hit low if you get out of an Uair chain or basically to gimp you offstage.

You should not make this an aerial battle, for you will most likely lose. You will need to safely camp and allow him to take the battle to you. Stick with safe moves and maybe you'll win.

For this match-up, you have to play safe and smart. One screw-up could mean a Dsmash in your face. Naturally it'll be a painful Dsmash.

So yeah, unless I'm stupider than I even thought possible, I'm going to soundly say you can't beat him in the air unless he's on the ground. Making this an aerial battle just isn't smart. Spacing with Fair will probably be the only voluntary action you'll be taking in the air consistently.

well im not sure because i never play mk but my friend (mk mainer) has said that it is supid to try an areal game on marth because he has a counter that makes if verry hard.

i as a marth mainer would also say that his areal game rivals mk's gamemore than the ground game does
still its about 6:4 because marth simply has troble rivaling his speed

u play this match up like if it was shiek in melee camp camp camp some more and dont even bother edge guarding. Only differences now is mk aka shiek of brawl doesnt have needles to out camp u as bad. reason why mks attacks feel like they out range marths is because his attacks come out a few frames faster. I discourage using dtilts to beat his dtilts because urs wont come out faster than his. u should fair him at these situations while he sticks out his attacks to beat it.

The only real hard thing bout this match up is landing kill moves on mk, but yah its possible to shutdown mks entire game if your real good at camping.

meepxzero said:

The only real hard thing bout this match up is landing kill moves on mk, but yah its possible to shutdown mks entire game if your real good at camping.

Click to expand...

how about countering his finishing moves they are sort of slow (for MK's standard anyway) and what should kill you is bound to kill him.

another thing would be dolphin slash out of a shield if he makes the mistake to use mech tornado. bang dead

Meta Knights tilts all out range Marths, and even Marths FSmash. Meta Knight's DTilt beats Marths DTilt, FTilt, and it beats the FSmash ever so slightly. I tested multiple times to make sure. His **** FTilt is even longer when you don't tilt the sword up or down, which beats Marths by quite a bit when you consider the tight spacing Marth needs to use, and that is just the first FTilt swing. Both Standard As are about equal. UTilt I am unsure of, but it's rather irrelevant anyway since any Marth trying to approach Meta Knight coming down is asking to get slaughtered. I think Meta Knights may be longer due to him poping so high off the ground.

Marth and Meta Knight have equal length in Fairs, so aerial game all comes down to timing. Considering Meta Knight has three strikes to both his Fair and Bair (and I believe they come out faster too), I would say Meta Knight wins in this scenario due to having more leeway to fall back on. However, if Marth lands a Fair, Meta Knight will pay a higher price for it, so it evens out. Meta Knight's Bair is slightly longer, but nothing I would think would affect the match up. Actually, Meta Knight has noticeable lag on his Bair compared to the Fair, so one should capitalize on that. Bair for Marth is where it's at. This is the one attack that most noticeably out ranges Meta Knight in all aspects.

With this in mind, I think the safest approach is to shield drop/side step and punish accordingly. Shield the FTilt attempts and try to go for a Dancing Blade if Meta Knight doesn't go for the full three. If he does, even better. Grab him if possible, especially if he retreats into the shield, and abuse his released lag with whatever you see fit. If Meta Knight attempts to use the DTilt, you can try and time a stutter stepped FSmash to catch him if he mistakes the spacing, as most Meta Knights will spam DTilt a few times to ensure a hit or two. Going aerial is also a good idea, as you could simply hop over the sword and Fair, Nair or Dancing Blade. Make sure to NOT roll around Meta Knights Standard A, as it reaches around him too and it will catch you on the end every time. Use this chance to get ready for a FSmash for when he drops the attack. If you're above a Meta Knight, get out of there. UTilt will outreach DTilt I believe, and even if it didn't, you're stuck in horrendous lag afterwards. Shield Breaker out ranges everything Meta Knight has, so use accordingly against a shield happy Meta Knight.

In aerial game, you have the advantage of harder hitting moves and more aerial influence. Use both to your advantage, and weave in and out of Meta Knights range to capitalize on mistakes. RARing Bairs will help you a lot in this match up because of the increased length Bair provides. It is also more damaging and has more knock back than the Fair. Nairs can be used to follow up with where a single strike Fair would fail, but generally the Fair is superior in this case. Uair I believe surpassed Meta Knights Dair, but I can't be sure of this. If anyone wishes to inform me here, please.

When faced with Meta Knights Drillscrew or Tornado, Counter. Counter each time. It will work on both and even if they decide to evade you, you will recover in time to punish them appropriately.

At higher percents, avoid rolling at all costs (not that it was good in the first place) as this will get you killed via DSmash or a predicted FSmash. Meta Knight can also tech chase a Shuttle Loop, which isn't desirable either. You also have less room for error in the air unless you like being KO'd by Nair, but this shouldn't be too hard to avoid. In order to KO Meta Knight, Bairs, timed FSmashes and Released/JC Dolphin Slashes all work.

To summarize my points...

Your friends:

- Shield/Side Step
- Shield Grab
- JC Shield Attacks (Fair, Nair, Dolphin Slash)
- Counter (Special attacks ONLY)
- Released Attacks (Fair and others for damage, Dolphin Slash for KOs)
- Bair, Shield Breaker for range where appropriate
- Dancing Blade for punishment
- Marths superior aerial mobility
- Heavier weight
- Stronger attacks

Your foes:

- Rolling (Both yours and Meta Knights)
- Laggy moves (Mostly DSmash, Dair)
- Meta Knights ground range (DTilt, **** FTilt, Standard A)
- Meta Knights DSmash

vinz said:

how about countering his finishing moves they are sort of slow (for MK's standard anyway) and what should kill you is bound to kill him.

Click to expand...

Up b and down smash? Those seem pretty fast to me


I got some good videos of this matchup. See where the Marth goes wrong and try to adjust your game.

Roy_R(Marth) vs. Stiltz (MK)
B-Stick(Marth) vs. Morty(MK)
Ambrose (Marth) vs. MDK(MK)

Anth0ny said:

Up b and down smash? Those seem pretty fast to me [/URL]

Click to expand...

up b yes i think its dam hard to counter if used right beside you
his down smash is counterable if you pay attention closely or predict his movement
btw i only said : for MK's standart that does not mean that they are sow

anyway great vids

I found a little trinket you guys might like. At 7% or below, Marth can DThrow to Tipped FSmash Meta Knight for an easy 24%+. I checked it, and Meta Knight doesn't seem like he can DI out, although I did it myself. This would be useful if a grab is landed early on in a battle via Shield Grab.

Ulevo I already stated that MK's tilts beat Marth's. Marth's F-smash barely has more range then his d-tilt.

The F-smash has to be PERFECT though. And it's very hard to adjust the spacing. Honestly it's not worth it to just throw it out there in the hopes of outspacing him.

So now..lol. I don't even know how Marth is supposed to go about this match other then bait MK the entire time and just punish his approaches.

He doesn't really outrange MK or anything.

Also in the air Marth's fair seems to barely outrange MK's, but this can be hard to test since using Fair's in the air causes you to move forward very slightly even with the C-stick.

Honestly it doesn't matter.

Marth can't play a range game. Period.

Anyway, here is a tip. SH fairs will beat d-tilts. And if you are just outside the max range of MK's d-tilt it's better to just dash forward into a Dancing Blade or a grab.

This match is Marth's defense vs MK's offense.

I think the counter becomes very important in this matchup. Whorenado and glide attack are used a lot by MK's and are easily counterable.

As Emblem Lord mentioned, Marth's defense is going to win this matchup.

lol this is marths worse match up but who else does better than marth in this snake? So people u shouldnt really get discouraged if ur fights with mk are real close. If you generally fair camp u can beat mk. only thing thatll beat fair camping is his ftilts and even with that ull hit him with the tip of ur fair more times than he will hit u with his ftilt. Only gets tricky when he shields ur fairs or does tournados, but u should b quick to have ur shield up if u expect it or see it half a milli second.

Emblem Lord said:

Ulevo I already stated that MK's tilts beat Marth's. Marth's F-smash barely has more range then his d-tilt.

The F-smash has to be PERFECT though. And it's very hard to adjust the spacing. Honestly it's not worth it to just throw it out there in the hopes of outspacing him.

So now..lol. I don't even know how Marth is supposed to go about this match other then bait MK the entire time and just punish his approaches.

He doesn't really outrange MK or anything.

Also in the air Marth's fair seems to barely outrange MK's, but this can be hard to test since using Fair's in the air causes you to move forward very slightly even with the C-stick.

Honestly it doesn't matter.

Marth can't play a range game. Period.

Anyway, here is a tip. SH fairs will beat d-tilts. And if you are just outside the max range of MK's d-tilt it's better to just dash forward into a Dancing Blade or a grab.

This match is Marth's defense vs MK's offense.

Click to expand...

I know you previously stated that, I was just mentioning it again for emphasis. Either way, we already knew this would be a battle of defense. All this means is you can't simply walk up and FTilt or DTilt and expect to out range Meta Knight, which you shouldn't be doing anyway since he can just roll around you or spot dodge and retaliate. Marth can still weave aerials in and out better than Meta Knight can. Marth can also accumulate damage based on mistakes better thanks to Dancing Blade and Grab Release. Marth also has a guaranteed kill move with Release Dolphin Slash. After about 130% with good DI, Meta Knight starts dying if grabbed at the middle of Final Destination, and Meta Knight may be grabbed closer to the ledge than that. FD is also a larger stage, so the percents will be lower for certain stages.

Will we get a hint on who the next character will be? =)

TKD+ITA+Mar= said:

Will we get a hint on who the next character will be? =)

Click to expand...

I'll think about it, but I'm no good with riddles, and it would likely just cluster up the thread with guessing games rather than good discussion.

camping metaknight? LOL wut?

I don't think this is possible for Marth? Metaknight's approach is way too good for that.

As for the air thing: A great Metaknight is a grounded one. His dash approaches and his broken ranges tilts -- plus his insane speed -- makes him a demon on the ground. There is nothing marth can do to compete with metaknight on the ground. The air is where you have a chance to out space him and limit his options. It will also set up your punishment options. Do not stay on the ground!

If Marth doesn't camp then how does he win?

The idea is to force MK to get past Marth's sword and his great defense. To do this you must bait him. To bait someone you must be patient and lure them in.

You have to camp them.

Ulevo said:

I'll think about it, but I'm no good with riddles, and it would likely just cluster up the thread with guessing games rather than good discussion.

Click to expand...

Very true, bad idea on my part.

i love this thread, even tho emblem i have to correct you.



this is easily marth's worst match up.




NONE of his "marth" **** works here my friend. and if you play a patient, camping metaknight who waits for your lag and doesn't even throw out any of his non-lagging attacks it is the most annoying **** ever to exist. btw falling f-air should only be done against a metaknight at mid-range to long range, if he's a few character lengths away from you he can dash attack the landing lag like sheik can

if only marth had his melee reach. That would make this an adverage match up.

I'd rather fight a meta knight than a Snake tbqh.

Edit: I pulled a silly.

The best thing to do is keep Marth mobile and weave in and out of his range in order to prey on mistakes. I think if a systematic order is followed by Dancing Blade punishments, Countering B moves, weaving Fairs, DTilting when necessary and Grab Releasing Marth can keep ahead of Meta Knight.

Steel2nd said:

I'd rather fight a meta knight than a Snake tbqh.

Click to expand...

I would take the Snake. Marth can still be Marth in that match up. Everything goes to hell against metaknight.

grandmaster192 said:

I would take the Snake. Marth can still be Marth in that match up. Everything goes to hell against metaknight.

Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly agree. MK vs. Marth is by far one of the most campy battles in the game. With Snake, you can be aggro to pressure Snake from using his explosives. With MK, you have to play a strict game where one mistake can cost you everything but MK can basically get away with almost anything.

^ With Snake one mistake can mean an ftilt to the face.

TKD+ITA+Mar= said:

^ With Snake one mistake can mean an ftilt to the face.

Click to expand...

Yes, but Snake can't really follow up. He can Mortar Slide to an edgeguarding position, but aside from that, he isn't as good of an edgeguarder as MK. If you can get back on stage, most Snakes will try to camp you again. Therefore the match will go back to previously.

With MK, he can follow up very well. He edgeguards better than Marth. He is one of the best gimpers in the game. When you're off stage after a powerful attack, you'd probably ear MetaKnight more than Snake.

This is just opinion though, but seriously, MK is for the most part a worst match-up than Snake. He basically does everything you do but better (sans killing but most good MKs don't have an issue with that).

Oh, but only at low percents do you survive... Seriously guns don't kill, Snake's ftilt does. He also has utilt and a deadly AAA combo.

Perhaps we should save this discussion for the week we cover Snake.

grandmaster192 said:

I would take the Snake. Marth can still be Marth in that match up. Everything goes to hell against metaknight.

Click to expand...

QFT.

Maybe it's the lack of very good Snakes in my area, but I'd personally take Snake over MK anyday.

Ulevo: You just described how Marth camps MK.

En.Ee.Oh said:

i love this thread, even tho emblem i have to correct you.



this is easily marth's worst match up.




NONE of his "marth" **** works here my friend. and if you play a patient, camping metaknight who waits for your lag and doesn't even throw out any of his non-lagging attacks it is the most annoying **** ever to exist. btw falling f-air should only be done against a metaknight at mid-range to long range, if he's a few character lengths away from you he can dash attack the landing lag like sheik can

Click to expand...

Instead of just saying I'm wrong you need to contribute what you have discovered. I described what to do if MK tries to attack. If you have faced MK's that try to camp you back then you need to post what works from your own experience, not just shoot me down.

I'm also posting from my own tourney experience so the stuff I'm saying does work, but if you have more to add then you need to say so.

Just saying that a camping MK is annoying does nothing.

Anyway, it is Marth's worst match-up but it is by no means a bad match-up.

Marth is at disadvantage but from what I can tell it's only 4/6 which is fine.