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Sheik Frame Data... WIP

Zankoku

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Just getting some numbers while I work. I'll do more when I feel like it.

Here's how the format looks:
Name
ACTION: when something useful happens
HIT: hitframes
END: when the animation ends <IASA frames> {autocancel frames}
LAND: Aerial landing lag. You get this animation if you land from an aerial before its autocancel frames or before it ends.

Shield
ACTION: 2

Roll Forward
INVULNERABLE: 5-19
END: 31

Roll Backward
INVULNERABLE: 5-19
END: 31
(hopefully seeing that you're vulnerable for freaking 12 FRAMES at the end of a roll will help you realize that rolling is very punishable)

Spot-Dodge/Sidestep
INVULNERABLE: 6-21
END: 25

Unshield
END: 7

Jump
ACTION: 4 (airborne on frame 5)
To do a shorthop, simply release the jump input before frame 5.
For comparison, Melee Sheik's jump was 3 frames, airborne on frame 4.

Hard Landing
END: 28 <4>

Soft Landing
END: 16 <2>

Air-Dodge
INVULNERABLE: 4-30
END: 49
Keep in mind that landing will immediately end your invulnerability. You'll also most likely get a hard landing, meaning you'll be completely vulnerable for 4 frames when landing from an air-dodge.

Dash turnaround
The frames here are completely based on how much you slid and thus how fast you were running, so basically it ends between 23 and 50 frames and is IASA 6 frames before it ends.

Jab
HIT: 2
END: 20 <17>

Second Jab
HIT: 16
END: 33 <24>

Rapid Jabs
HIT: 29, 33, 37, 41, 45, 49, 51
END: 55

Forward Tilt
HIT: 4
END: 24 <21>

Up Tilt
HIT: 5, 25
END: 40 <35>

Down Tilt
HIT: 5
END: 29

Dash Attack
HIT: 5
END: 40

Forward Smash
HIT: 12, 31
END: 54 <50>

Up Smash
HIT: 11, 13
END: 54 <51>

Down Smash
HIT: 4, 16, 23
END: 56 <48>

Standing Grab
ACTION: 6
END: 30

Running Grab
ACTION: 9
END: 46 <39>

Needle Storm
ACTION: 8
HIT: 12
END: 94
FULL CHARGE: 55
FULL CHARGE HIT: 12
CANCEL: 6
INSTANT CANCEL: 15
(basically, this means that instant needle cancel takes at least 15 frames)

Aerial Needle Storm
ACTION: 8
HIT: 14
END: 47
LAND: 30

Vanish
INVULNERABLE: 26-54
HIT: 35
REAPPEAR: 55
END: 94

Aerial Vanish
INVULNERABLE: 23-54
HIT: ???
REAPPEAR: 55
END: 98
LAND: 28 {99}
The "autocancel" frame here is when you would get a soft landing instead of a heavy landing, but this one is for when you land BEFORE this frame. If you land from a Vanish, you get the same lag as you would a normal soft/heavy landing, except without the IASA frames. Also, if you do an aerial Vanish into the ground, look at Vanish's END frames. If you do a ground Vanish into the air, look at Aerial Vanish's LAND frames.

Neutral Air
HIT: 2
END: 44 {31}
LAND: 15

Forward Air
HIT: 5
END: 28 {14}
LAND: 15

Back Air
HIT: 3
END: 41 {32}
LAND: 12

Up Air
HIT: 4
END: 42 {29}
LAND: 30

Down Air
HIT: 14
END: 54
LAND: 38
 

BRoomer
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Good stuff can't wait to see it completed.

also, bair doesn't auto cancel?
 

Zankoku

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It might. I don't have all the frames down yet. You'll notice I don't have the hit frame for dair listed, for example.
 

Wildfire393

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Also missing the additional hitframes in the Down Smash and the Autocancel frames of the Bair, Nair, and Uair.

Also, you're missing the Dash Attack, Repeating Jab frames, Dashing Grab, Get-up Attack(s), Ledge Attacks(s), and Specials.
 

Zankoku

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Also missing the additional hitframes in the Down Smash and the Autocancel frames of the Bair, Nair, and Uair.

Also, you're missing the Dash Attack, Repeating Jab frames, Dashing Grab, Get-up Attack(s), Ledge Attacks(s), and Specials.
I know. It's listed as WIP for a reason.

I don't really understand what this data means. If someone would explain it that would be awesome!
Basically how many frames it takes for an attack to happen. So for Sheik's jab, for example, it hits on frame 2, meaning if you pressed A, then 2 frames later Sheik's jab will hit.

There are 60 frames per second, so 1 frame is 1/60 of a second, 15 frames is 1/4 of a second, and so on.
 

BRoomer
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Wildfire, he just pointed it out to me as well, it is a work in progress he is updating it as he goes. Unless you are mocking me, then thats fine.

GodAtHand, the data relates to the frames before the listed thing happens, if a move says hits on frame 2 then it does just that. IASA stands for interruptible as soon as, you can cancel the move with any other button input at that frame.
 

Tristan_win

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Finally something for the hardcore technical Sheiks users can use! (._.)

Anyways Even though the nair comes out just as fast as a punch I think we should all keep in mind that jumping does take frames as well so punching is still faster on the ground

Also Ankoku did you include the 1 frame import time into the numbers or did you leave it out?

It's not really important I just feel like knowing ^^
 

Zankoku

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Input is on frame 0. If you count it as frame 1, then you should add 1 to each of the numbers I have up there.
 

stealthsushi

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Nice work :D All these data tables you make would find a nice happy home in your Sheik guide :) Frame data for Vanish and the spot dodge would be quite useful too :D I'm surprised the Nair hits in 2 frames-- I hope that further tests don't disprove your initial value. Haha :D

Go Sheik!!
 

Zankoku

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Alright, I found most of the important stuff (missing chain and aerial Vanish, among other things). I'm considering also figuring out shieldstun vs shieldhitlag values, or basically how long someone is stuck in shield vs how long your character is stuck in lag. This could be useful to figure out when you have a frame advantage.
 

stealthsushi

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Other useful frame data that would make a great addition would be Sheik's:
Ledge Roll
Ledge Get-up
Ledge Attack (under 100%)
Ledge Attack (100% +)
Wall Jump
Crouch

If there's a substantial number of invincibility frames in the ledge options, they could be very useful when deciding how you want to play around with the ledge :) Also, knowing how many frames it takes to crouch might be useful in determining if there is a noticeable difference between crouching then performing a D-Tilt, and tilting the control stick slightly to avoid a "pre-crouched" D-Tilt.

Keep up the awesome work :D Gotta love the numbers!
 

-dMT-

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So I understand that input is frame 0 and the attack hits at the hit frame, but can you please explain the meaning behind the IASA numbers and autocancel numbers.

I know what IASA frames are, just couldn't figure out how to interpret how the data is given. Using an example to explain would be much appreciated.
 

Zankoku

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IASA means you can do whatever you want at any point after that frame - shield, attack, whatever. Those frames are, in effect, the "real" ending frames. For example, a hard landing is 28 frames IASA at frame 4, so you CAN jump, fast-fall, and get a hard landing and wait all 28 frames, but it's a lot smarter to just start doing whatever you want at frame 4.

Autocancel frame is just the frame where landing after that point will give you normal landing lag instead of aerial landing lag. For example with the fair, you can shorthop, fair, and as long as you land at frame 14 or later, you won't get the 15-frame aerial landing lag and will instead get either a soft or hard landing, depending on whether you fastfell or not. Clearly, 1 or 4 frames of landing lag is far better than 15.
 

theONEjanitor

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man, i thought I was the **** rolling around with sheik. her rolls are so cool looking

does everyone's roll have that much punishability?

also how many frames does it take to turn into zelda?
it seems like it varies
 

Squidster

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It varies because it's loading the character. Sheik -> zelda seems faster than zelda -> sheik in general but if theres already a zelda on the field then the transformation is near instant :o
 

stealthsushi

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Heh, if only they had done a better job at Zelda/Sheik transformations :( I hope Ankoku will finish this awesome thread :D Its one of my favorites on SWF.

Go Sheik!!
 

Charoo

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i want to bump this so it can get sticky.

Also, when you fast fall after air dodging, do u still get the hard landing lag? I wanna know this so I can fast fall with an air dodge when I'm trying to land on the stage.

btw, how did u figure the frame out? I want to know this so I can do it for Fox. I'm not fully certain on some of his moves which r fastest and such. Thanks
 

Charoo

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i want to bump this so it can get sticky.

Also, when you fast fall after air dodging, do u still get the hard landing lag? I wanna know this so I can fast fall with an air dodge when I'm trying to land on the stage.

btw, how did u figure the frame out? I want to know this so I can do it for Fox. I'm not fully certain on some of his moves which r fastest and such. Thanks
please ankoku. Help meeeeeee
 

Zankoku

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First question: Yes you do.

Second question: A dubious method. I plan on redoing this later when I figure out how to deinterlace the video properly.
 

Charoo

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thank you!!!

also, if i do say forward air. I would have 4 frame of lag if i fast fall it or does the aerial move nullify the landing lag?
 

Ominous

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hey Ankoku will it be okay if i ask for help coz i dont understand the data you cleted on page one...
 

J4pu

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I'm not sure if this is possible, but could you give the input frames in order to do the boost smash? Like dash attack would be the beginning aka frame 1 and then Upsmash using Up+A (or w/e you use) needs to be input on what frame. Would help me out a lot. Until then I'll continue looking through stickies in case there's something helpful in one of the other ones.

EDIT- well i managed to figure it out, but it might make a nice addition to the frame data despite being completely different.
 

Rawr_

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Awesome stuff, Ankoku. It'd be cool if it had what frames bair can autocancel, but it seems to be fairly soon because SHFF'd bair is pretty much lagless, from what I can tell you can dsmash literally as soon as you hit the ground, and since that move comes out in 4 frames it usually hits in the starting lag of a shieldgrab.
 

fox219

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Just getting some numbers while I work. I'll do more when I feel like it.

Here's how the format looks:
Name
ACTION: when something useful happens
HIT: hitframes
END: when the animation ends <IASA frames> {autocancel frames}
LAND: Aerial landing lag. You get this animation if you land from an aerial before its autocancel frames or before it ends.

Shield
ACTION: 2

Roll Forward
INVULNERABLE: 5-19
END: 31

Roll Backward
INVULNERABLE: 5-19
END: 31
(hopefully seeing that you're vulnerable for freaking 12 FRAMES at the end of a roll will help you realize that rolling is very punishable)

Spot-Dodge/Sidestep
INVULNERABLE: 6-21
END: 25

Unshield
END: 7

Jump
ACTION: 4 (airborne on frame 5)
To do a shorthop, simply release the jump input before frame 5.
For comparison, Melee Sheik's jump was 3 frames, airborne on frame 4.

Hard Landing
END: 28 <4>

Soft Landing
END: 16 <2>

Air-Dodge
INVULNERABLE: 4-30
END: 49
Keep in mind that landing will immediately end your invulnerability. You'll also most likely get a hard landing, meaning you'll be completely vulnerable for 4 frames when landing from an air-dodge.

Dash turnaround
The frames here are completely based on how much you slid and thus how fast you were running, so basically it ends between 23 and 50 frames and is IASA 6 frames before it ends.

Jab
HIT: 2
END: 20 <17>

Second Jab
HIT: 16
END: 33 <24>

Rapid Jabs
HIT: 29, 33, 37, 41, 45, 49, 51
END: 55

Forward Tilt
HIT: 4
END: 24 <21>

Up Tilt
HIT: 5, 25
END: 40 <35>

Down Tilt
HIT: 5
END: 29

Dash Attack
HIT: 5
END: 40

Forward Smash
HIT: 12, 31
END: 54 <50>

Up Smash
HIT: 11, 13
END: 54 <51>

Down Smash
HIT: 4, 16, 23
END: 56 <48>

Standing Grab
ACTION: 6
END: 30

Running Grab
ACTION: 9
END: 46 <39>

Needle Storm
ACTION: 8
HIT: 12
END: 94
FULL CHARGE: 55
FULL CHARGE HIT: 12
CANCEL: 6
INSTANT CANCEL: 15
(basically, this means that instant needle cancel takes at least 15 frames)

Aerial Needle Storm
ACTION: 8
HIT: 14
END: 47
LAND: 30

Vanish
INVULNERABLE: 26-54
HIT: 35
REAPPEAR: 55
END: 94

Aerial Vanish
INVULNERABLE: 23-54
HIT: ???
REAPPEAR: 55
END: 98
LAND: 28 {99}
The "autocancel" frame here is when you would get a soft landing instead of a heavy landing, but this one is for when you land BEFORE this frame. If you land from a Vanish, you get the same lag as you would a normal soft/heavy landing, except without the IASA frames. Also, if you do an aerial Vanish into the ground, look at Vanish's END frames. If you do a ground Vanish into the air, look at Aerial Vanish's LAND frames.

Neutral Air
HIT: 2
END: 44 {31}
LAND: 15

Forward Air
HIT: 5
END: 28 {14}
LAND: 15

Back Air
HIT: 3
END: 41 {32}
LAND: 12

Up Air
HIT: 4
END: 42 {29}
LAND: 30

Down Air
HIT: 14
END: 54
LAND: 38
Awesome work!
 
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