MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
So I took a smash vacation for a bit due to various reasons, but now I'm back. I have a lot of catching up to do so I went to the best source I could for ROB info: Overswarm. I started compiling the information just so I could get the most out of it, but I soon realized that he had covered so many topics that I could just post it up as a guide. There are a good many gaps, and for the moveset portion I have asterisks by basic information that I post. Hopefully OS will see this and decide to complete the rest seeing how little work it would be, *hint hint*.
I. ROB's Moveset
II. General Advice
III. DI
IV. Camping Strategies
V. Ledge Strategies
VI. Stage Picks
VII. Character Specific Strategies
VIII. Team Strategies
I. ROB's Moveset:
Jab:
*Not much info yet. OS basically said he needs to learn to implement this more. In other words, very situational.
Dash Attack:
His dash attack, like most dash attacks, can be shield grabbed. This makes it a poor approach when used improperly, and thus will ALWAYS be a gamble when attacking a grounded opponent (since they can shield). You can attempt to run through them and dash attack (which still will hit them and make you appear on the other side) or hit them with the very edge of the attack, but you are still vulnerable, albeit at different points.
So how do you know when to use the dash attack?
You use it whenever your opponent is in the air or is teching/rolling!
His dash attack has a great hitbox, and hits a good ways above ROB. Even better is the knockback factor of it! It's so slight at low % that you can often follow it up with u-tilts and u-airs. At high %, you can always pressure your opponent from it and sometimes get off an u-smash.
So when your opponent is landing, dash attack before they hit the ground! It is not advisable to do this against opponents with a good KO aerial, but for those with damage dealing fairs it is a godsend. The dash attack sends them BACK up into the air while you move only slightly, and you can then follow up with another dash attack or aerial.
The reason this strategy is so good goes into the whole "yomi layer" idea.
If you are going to dash attack a landing opponent and he knows it, he can do two things that are effective.
1. Air dodge
2. Attack you before you attack him
Very few aerials come out fast enough with enough range to prevent ROB from at least hitting him as well. At the right %, ROB can take 12% to give out a dash attack and still wind up with more damage being dealt to the opponent due to pressuring.
Besides that, if your opponent gets in the habit of doing an aerial (or countering in some cases), you can simply run up and shield.
If your opponent air dodges, he is a fool! The dash attack has very little lag, and can be followed up with a d-smash easily. This will again launch your opponent into the air.
Pressuing landing opponents with dash attacks (mixed up with grabs + d-throw for combo / pressure potential) is a great way of forcing your opponent to fight a brick wall before he actually fights you.
Tilts:
His f-tilt and d-tilt are both fairly spammable. There is little lag, and they can be used frequently to start harassing your opponent. Even better is that they have low knockback, so using them to recharge your stronger moves is a great idea.
F-tilt:
*OS didn't go into detail about the f-tilt by itself, but he did cover it in several posts. Basically this is a fast attack with high priority and can be used very effectively when spaced properly.
D-tilt:
It sounds like he's saying "**** **** **** ****" when he uses it, and it always makes me laugh.
Up-tilt:
Abuse soft hits. You can follow that up with an angled forward tilt against many characters, which can then be followed up by a running u-smash or a grab.
Aerials
Fair:
*Talked about extensively in posts but never by itself. Great move for harassing off the stage. Can be used very effectively if spaced properly.
Nair:
*Well I ****in love this move, but I didn't see OS talk of it much.
Bair:
ROB's back air is, by far, the move that sets his aerial game apart from other characters.
It autocancels, it fastfalls easily (just hold down, yo), and it auto-spaces. It can also aut-cancel. These things combined make it a great move.
If you are using it facing away, it autospaces you outside of the range of ANY attack save for fast projectiles and the like. Regardless, it autocancels so you can shield or roll.
You can also use it towards a shielding opponent, fast fall, and then d-smash or d-tilt depending on the location of your opponent.
If you hit someone at low % with a back air that pushes you towards them, you can almost always get off a sick combo. Back-air, d-tilt, down-smash, followed by a u-air and a fall-away laser. If your laser is charged, this leads you to an edgeguarding opportunity.
The back-air is also great for recovering, but we all know that by now. Use it to push you towards the stage.
Something else that's great about the back-air is the delay it has! You can use this to your advantage. If you treat the backair like, say, Fox's back-air, you'll just get in trouble. When you are playing an opponent that routinely air dodges (hellooooooooo Snake), jump into their "zone" and use your back-air. Often they will air dodge quickly, meaning that the delay in your back-air will be just long enough to destroy them.
This also hold true on the ledge! Most people stay on the ledge for all of their invincibility frames, so you can run off and back-air near the end and hit them into the stage for a surprise spike!
Did I also mention that throwing down a gyro then jumping over it and repeatedly back-airing is completely impassable by any character? If they don't have a projectile, they literally can't safely approach you. It's a fun game to play against noobs.
Dair:
The dair spike should only be used when there is no way they can avoid it, or if you can call on your enemy, or if you are using it to force them off the ledge. It isn't that great of a move.
If you do happen to get it off on the stage and they hit the ground, float towards them and back-air. If they stand up or roll the direction you are facing when you bair, you'll hit them. I'ts a neat little combo, but totally up to your opponent if it works.
Stalling with dair has two good uses:
1. You know your opponent is going to double jump aerial (most snakes do that to hit with a u-air for a KO), and will thus need to land after doing so. Stalling once with dair gives you some more "safe time".
2. You are trying to mindgame your opponent by going straight down, dairing, and then floating to the left or right afterwards. This is especially effective near the ledge, when you can dair and float towards the ledge to auto-grab and is night unpunishable.
Uair:
*Good damage racker, combos well, nifty as heck. Fun to harass people with and can wreck characters that have poor dairs like nobodies business. Makes for fun happy platform harassment as well.
B Moves
Forward B:
I use forward-b sparingly. It is great for reflecting projectiles, and I often will do it into people's shields and angle it downwards so it will shield poke them towards the end of the over-b (thus reducing any lag it would normally have!).
Gyro:
I use the gyro in every matchup. Whenever a character has a reflector, they are going to use it. When you can FORCE them to use their reflector, you can FORCE them to have a bout of lag at your expense. While it would normally be a better idea to air dodge if someone throws a gyro at you, they will often reflect out of instinct.
Just keep in mind that you can launch a weak gyro, pick it up, then throw it like an item. That makes it easier to dodge if they reflect it.
I often will just simply place the gyro spinning on the ground so as to limit their movement range. Sitting it on top of a platform, especially on battlefield, makes it very hard for any character to escape an approaching ROB.
For the gyro, you generally want to either hit the opponent or use it to prevent some mode of movement. If you set it in front of them, they have to dash attack, jump, or roll over it. If you set it above them on a platform, they can't jump unless they air dodge. If you sit in right in front of the ledge when they are on it, they will have to jump, roll, or simply wait on the ledge.
Limiting your opponents options in this way allows you to have a much easier time punishing them. Just keep in mind what would work best. Setting a gyro in front of a character that has a great aerial game won't do very much; they're going in the air anyway. Might be better off shooting that gyro above them and forcing them to stay on the ground for a moment or two!
FYI, if you are ever charging a gyro, it is FASTER to shoot it rather than air dodge. This is important for if you start charging by accident. I suicided once yesterday in tournament because I air dodged instead of shooting, so I went and figured it out. Shooting to up+b = muchos faster.
ROB can do aerials while holding the gyro. He cannot do ground attacks without a glide toss.
To do aerials while holding the gyro, hit Z (this will "drop" the gyro), then immediately do an aerial attack. There is no delay in this, and you pick up the gyro automatically.
Up B (Jump Jets?):
One other trick for those reading this far... did you know if you use your up+b, you still save your double jump? It gives you more horizontal distance to just tap up+b when on the stage than short hopping off, and you move a lot faster. This REALLY helps destory people like the space animals or Snake who like to recover from just out of normal short hop range. Just tap up+b and throw those fairs out, and then you still have your double-jump AND the rest of your up+b fuel! Be careful though; if you use your up+b with improper timing, you'll waste your jump. I generally just tap up+b once and use my jump next so I don't lose the extra height.
Laser:
Rob's laser has 3. Immediately after use, it is a close range blast (this attack stays for the other two lasers as well, but is only close range) that has small knockback. After one second, it has the normal "weak and fast" laser. The larger, slower, stronger laser appears exactly 20 seconds after use (watch that timer!).
His up+b refuels only on the stage, and it takes 2-3 seconds for it to refuel completely. Touching the stage and jumping does not allow it to charge. Grabbing the ledge only gives him the initial "push"; this means that ROB can't camp the ledge with his up+B, so keep that in mind!
The robo beam has two uses. Damage, and KOs.
I find myself saving it a lot when my opponent gets to higher %, and I generally tend to save it against tether recoveries since it works so well against them. Throw it out in the beginning (your first laser only needs a few seconds to be fully charged, so your first should always be a biggin', but after that throw the tiny ones out ). Once they are at a % that allows you to knock them off the stage a good distance, keep that laser in mind.
Smashes
Forward Smash:
*Good move, but not spectacular. Learn to aim this mofo.
Down Smash:
Any character can escape the d-smash by simply holding up. This allows you, oftentimes, to follow up with a grab, gyro, or laser. D-smash is still a good move, but just know when you need to focus on using u-air as a damage dealer instead of d-smash.
Up Smash:
*Premier upwards KO. Kinda awkward but pretty powerful.
Throws:
His f-throw and b-throw are great at low % since you can chain unsuspecting opponents. My favorite starting combo is grab, b-throw, grab, b-throw, grab, d-throw, u-air. It does well above 50% and you're going to be able to hit with a laser or gyro afterwards, and then it's only a u-air or two away from KO percentage. That's all without using your KO moves!
Other than that, f-throw and b-throw are great for what they are but aren't KO moves unless your opponent doesn't DI. If they do, it's even worse than Peach's f-throw from Melee. So, to combo or set up for a KO, you almost always have to d-throw or u-throw.
However...
u-throw can be DIed much greater than d-throw can (meaning you can't follow up a u-throw if your opponent is DIing)
and
u-throw is a KO move at high % if you don't use it.
So use your d-throw all day and you can combo with u-air (make sure to double jump to u-air immediately at higher %, and at even higher % just double jump then up+B for a rising u-air and chase them out of the last hit). It's also important to note that out of a u-throw at low %, your opponent can air dodge once and reach the ground easily. Out of a d-throw, a smart ROB can space his u-air so that even if his opponent air dodges, ROB is right on top of him and can do any aerial he wants.
Your u-throw will kill at anywhere from 160-250% depending on the character. Those seem like high numbers, but as anyone that's played ROB knows, dealing damage is never an issue. If I have a Metaknight at 120% and he just won't die, I will happily spam f-tilt, d-tilt, lasers, and gyros until I can get a grab and just u-throw him for the kill.
I'm not sure why u-throw is a KO move while d-throw is not. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that u-throw has a greater increase in knockback as % goes up, while d-throw just has a higher initial knockback but doesn't increase as greatly.
II. General Advice:
A.
Everyone is different. Play defensively when you first see your opponent until you can read them.
The first three things I learn about an opponent are the following:
1. If you are running straight at an opponent, do they shield, attack, do a retreating aerial, run away, or what?
The answer to this determines whether you can fake them out by running then stopping, running and jumping backwards, whether you should dash attack, grab, etc.
2. When you throw or hit them off the edge at low %, do they immediately jump or do they wait and fall?
Noobs generally jump into the ****, experienced players generally wait and fall and try to read YOU. You can do something out of either. I generally just forward air or laser them. If you know they will jump, you can jump and fair them out of the initial jump animation and they will lose their jump and gain no height. Great for gimping!
3. If you stand back and spam projectiles, what do they do? Do they approach? Shield? Ledge camp? Shoot back?
What they do in this situation determines a lot about your match. Many players are totally at a loss as to what to do.
If you watch videos of me playing inexperienced players, you'll find it is often me spamming projectiles from far away until they approach, then I throw them off the edge and edgeguard. Or, if they get to high % and don't approach, I run forward, grab, and kill them with a u-throw, f-throw, or b-throw.
B.
When you fair them off the stage, you win the battle.
When you projectile spam even when you could easily KO them, you break their soul.
That, my friend, wins you the war.
Why simply beat an opponent in one round? That only lights a fire under them and sends them off to train until they can defeat you. No, it is much more fufilling to break their spirit. Make them throw the controller down and say "to hell with this game" and then sell their copy of Brawl.
That is the ultimate victory. To beat someone so badly that they hate the game itself.
C.
A "brick wall" is a strategy that has a very specific counter, yet is very specific and simple in how it is done.
Rob has many "brick walls" that are difficult to get around.
Simply spamming his fair or f-tilt properly is a brick wall.
Short hopping towards your opponent and bairing is a brick wall.
Dash attacking / shield grabbing upon landing is a brick wall.
Camping the ledge / running away and shooting lasers / gyros is a brick wall.
Bad players always lose to "brick wall" strategies. Always. That's why you could camp the ledge with Fox and just b-throw to shine against bad players and win in 30 seconds. It was easy for you to do, and the opponent hadn't become used to the idea yet. It was hard for us too at first, but after we learned the game better, we could get around it.
Currently, brick walls will work on 95% of the community hands down. I've won several matches simply by throwing out brick wall after brick wall and never actually having to fight. The advantage to these strategies is that they force your opponent to rely upon past experience, and YOU are in control as to when they stop and start.
I can run away and laser all day, and once I feel my opponent has figured it out I can start camping with fairs or short hopping towards them and bairing. These simple strategies make it easy for me to change my playstyle in enormous ways, and are terrifying to the unexperience opponent. Use these against players in tournaments that seem to be "naturally" better than you, and they may very well fall apart.
Find one you are good at, and always start off matches agaisnt new opponents with it until they figure it out. When they DO figure it out, you've already noticed and are now playing "for real" and they have to figure you out all over again while you know everything about them.
III. DI:
As for DI... it is generally best you DI up and opposite of the directino you are being hit. So if they are hitting you to the left, DI up and to the right. DIing down sends you on a straight line towards the edge, thus killing you faster.
Smash DI, or hitting the control stick the moment you get hit (during the initial frames), is stronger than simply holding the control stick. Some attacks are multi-hit, meaning you can smash DI multiple times. Seeing as how the c-stick can be used for smash DI (it doesn't register "holding" the stick; you have to smash it), you can smash both sticks repeatedly for super fast smash DI. This will get you out of smash attacks! So practice DI in training mode against an opponent that is using these attacks.
How much less deadly would snake be if you could DI out of his neutral air? Fox, out of his forward air? Zelda out of her f-smash or u-smash? ROB out of his u-air? Metaknight out of his forward-air?
It could very well be possible (and I know it is possible for at least half the ones above), and helps you greatly.
IV. Camping Strategies
Three major forms of camping:
1. Ledge camping
2. Distance camping
3. Zoning (in yo face camping)
#1 is easy enough. You get on the ledge, you camp it. It is more difficult to be hit here by most projectiles, and your opponent will often approach you out of frustration. Better yet, you can hit a button and be invincible for a moment! That said, it is a dangerous place to be; you can easily be gimped here if you mess up.
It is useful though when your opponent is using some form of distance camping or if he's just plain dumb. Zoning, #3, counters ledge camping hardcore. What most people don't realize is that when someone goes and grabs the edge, they can be EDGE GUARDED. That means you treat them as if they are coming back from the stage. Not run up to the edge and get *****.
Keep ledge camping to a minimum, but use it when you feel you are being overwhelmed on the stage in a straight up encounter, or when you want the stage to suddenly be a lot smaller.
#2 is the annoying one that I'm infamous for. It is shown best in the Jungle Japes match against Jiano. Basically, distance camping means you put a long area between you and your opponent and you shoot things at them until they get to you. This often causes them a lot of damage, frustration, and puts them in a vulnerable position because they are attempting to avoid your projectiles.
This is best used when your opponent doesn't have a projectile, has a poor or easily avoidable projectile, or has very laggy aerials (since he will almost always have to come in with an aerial to avoid your projectiles.
To improve the quality of this form of camping, know that you don't have to stay in one spot. If he jumps over your head, run to the other side and make him scream.
Distance camping isn't hard to counter either. No matter the projectile, simply holding down L or R makes your projectile worthless. If your opponent is patient, smart, and knows their character and yours, this will never work. Even worse, you are often near the edge when you do this! That puts you in a vulnerable position and makes your measly 18% dealt in projectile damage seem like nothing.
Distance camping should generally be turned off the moment your opponent gets close. Once they are on the "inside", don't worry about dealing damage. Worry about avoiding it.
#3, zoning, is the true and most effective form of camping. This is what every good player does, has done, and always will do. It is what smash, not Brawl, but SMASH, is. Every single game in the series.
What "zoning" is... is best defined when thinking about hitboxes. Imagine Marth in your head, and now imagine him doing all of his ground attacks . Imagine that the hitboxes stay up around him after he attacks and they are highlighted for all to see. What you are imagining is the "danger zone" that you can fall into.
Zoning involves staying OUT of that danger zone and waiting for him to do some sort of attack, trip, shield, or some other sort of laggy thing. Then you rush inside the danger zone that is no longer dangerous!
This is how you play EVERY CHARACTER and EVERY MATCHUP. This is a lot more precise in Brawl than it was in Melee, so you have to be careful.
In summary
you want to ledge camp when your opponent is owning you on the stage and you need a high risk + high reward situation, or if your opponent is just plain old dumb
you want to distance camp when your opponent has horrible aerials, no projectile, a bad projectile, or is owning you in close encounters that start on his terms. Distance camping makes everything on your terms.
you want to practice zoning at all times, as it is the heart of smash.
Q&A:
Is there a concrete time in which you decide that camping is definitely better than taking an offensive stance?
When I'm at high % and a stock ahead. The risk/reward situation changes. At that point, any damage I receive is worthless to my opponent. Any damage he receives is great for me. I'm inevitably going to lose the stock; I'm at a high %. He's being pushed closer to losing a stock.
Running towards him to get off grab combos or fair combos or other high damage dealing strings might seem like a good idea... but it isn't. He WILL come to you. So, pelt him with lasers and gyros until he gets close. THEN go for the string if you can't get out. No reason to stick your neck out for something not guaranteed when you can always get at least 10% off of lasers and gyros.
When I want to win, I camp D3 to hell and back. I also camp out Snake a lot. Same with all the other slow characters.
I also camp frequently on stages like Luigi's Mansion, Frigate, and Jungle Japes.
On Japes, if I camp on the right side and he hits me, I can fly over, go to the water and come out the other side, or go to one of the two ledges on the side. Super easy and safe.
On Mansion, I can stay behind one of hte pillars on the bottom and spam laser. If I get hit off, I can shoot a gyro at the pillar and the gyro will bounce back and guard the ledge for me. I can also fly above the stage and land on the top to recharge my fuel and jumps.
On Frigate, I can jump on the side plats that stick out and spam laser/gyro. If the player comes to get me, I can grab and b-throw him easily. Sometimes I can grab and just hold him or d-throw and get a KO as the plat leaves the stage if I'm a stock ahead.
If my opponent is really aggressive, I always camp. It's too good to just grab a ledge and hit a person over and over when he gets close... losing to ledge camping is about as embarassing as it gets.
And on the assumption of playstyle: What are some movements (by your opponent) that tell you when you should go aggressive or defensive?
Look for an opponent's "wakeup" signs. When they are suddenly hit in the air, do they jump first, do an attack, air dodge, what? When they are on the ledge? When they get hit on the ground? When they trip?
Most noobs jump immediately after being hit, roll when they are on the ledge, getup attack on the ground, and roll backwards when they trip. Look for those and abuse them... those situations are habit formed 100% of the time. Even the best players simply have something they almost always do out of instinct. It isn't until after you start punishing them that they observe you first.
V. Ledge Strategies:
If you are on the ledge, you have to realize you don't NEED to get off unless it is safe. You can laser, gyro, and fair to your heart's content. Just make sure you aren't using your up+B; if you are, just roll onto the stage so you will get some back even if you are hit.
Keep in mind you can also drop off the ledge and jump straight up, nair, then grab the ledge and immediately jump off and fair. If someone is camping by the edge and is going to shield grab you if you fair, you have many options.
One, jump and nair (not drop off and nair). This is very fast, powerful, and sends you behind them.
Two, drop off then jump and fair to bair. Double fair doesn't work as well, but you can fair then bair (hitting them when they are in front of you) and you will land behind them. You can then d-smash if they haven't been hit or rolled away yet, and it will inevitably shield poke them.
You can also drop off the ledge then jump and u-air; the final hit from the u-air has a suction effect that seems to teleport ROB onto the ledge, and it has very little lag so you can follow it up with a d-smash or jab.
To make it tricky, ROB has to use everything he has. I suggest shooting a gyro and trying to land it on the stage in front of the ledge; this is a sure way to make it back safely. The only issue comes when your opponent is smart enough to smash it off or run up and shield it, but even then it helps by buying you time.
Keep in mind that you have PLENTY of up+b since you HAVE been using your b-air for extra horizontal distance. That means if someone is grabbing the ledge, you can stall with your up+b and just throw out fair, bair, dair, nair, or u-air to force them to get off the ledge. No one should ever grab the ledge and be able to do anything to ROB ever. At the very least you can fly over them.
Speaking of flying over them, if your opponent doesn't have a very good vertical KO move, just fly with your up+b to the center of the stage and then let yourself fall. Air dodge when you need to, touch the ground, and you are set.
Another trick I do quite often is to go underneath the stage. If done properly, you can turn around while under the stage and go to the other ledge! You might say "well no one will fall for that", and that's true, but your opponent will rarely space themselves properly if you are forcing them to run back and forth across the stage. That's the real trick to it.
The real issue always comes when you grab the ledge. What do you do? ROB has surprisingly few "safe" options even though he has an amazing moveset.
If they are standing near the edge, your options are pretty awesome.
Drop off to jump + double fair (or my personal favorite, fair + bair, which can be followed by a d-smash if they roll towards you)
drop off to jump + u-air (if you space it properly, the last hit of the u-air will teleport ROB onto the stage!)
Simply rolling or getting onto the stage to refuel your up+b enough to allow you to get back to the center of the stage
Jump off ledge to nair (this is surprisingly fast, as jumping off the ledge has the least delay of all "off the ledge" moves; this is the opposite from Melee)
Drop off, jump away, gyro, go back to ledge
They are all good, but obviously not unstoppable. A good spot dodge or well spaced shield combined with a patient opponent leads ROB to be throw back out into the open, and unlike other characters, he doesn't get his up+b back after being hit!
That said, your main goal if you've been knocked back off ONCE is to touch the stage, even if you will take a hit. Otherwise, you'll be dead anyways. So just roll and touch the ground for a moment.
The worst edgeguarders are those that stand just out of reach of your initial fair (which is right in front of where your roll will land. Against these opponents, you have to pressure them to move TOWARDS you. Simply jump off the ledge, laser, and then you will auto grab. You can also do this with a gyro, but it is harder to time so you'll have to up+b a short bit.
If you can't force them to move in close, I suggest just standing up on the ledge and then rolling towards them or spot dodging as quickly as possible; this recharges your up+b and gives you a greater chance of recovering than trying some high risk tactic like reaching out with your nair or fair.
Did I also mention that jumping off ledge to air dodge is great to avoid edgeguarders like Marth that like to short hop fair or f-smash the moment you get off the ledge?
Because it is.
VI. Stage Picks:
Luigi's Mansion is good. You can d-smash **** there all day, AND his lasers go through the pillars. Even better, his gyro doesn't so you can throw a gyro at the pillars and it will land in front of the edge. This gives you extra protection upon recovering.
Frigate Orpheon is amazing. On the stage transformation that has the platform on the right/left that goes on and off, you can just laser/gyro camp there with your up+b all day. The plat comes back before you run out! Even better, you can easily kill from there with a b-throw if they choose to approach. If need be, you can d-smash your opponent to "suck him in" as the plat goes off the side, giving you a KO.
VII. Character Specific Strategies:
Against Space Animals:
Space animals can do a wonder on ROB if ROB doesn't play to his strengths.
Fox can combo him to hell and back, and Falco can cause all sorts of problems. Wolf, when played properly, can have a wall of moves constantly giving ROB trouble.
Three things you can do to make these matchups easier.
1. Keep the battle off the stage as often as possible
All the space animals have awful recoveries. They are predictable, and if you simply get them below the stage they can't use their over-b. This is good for you, since you can pressure them so hard you can actually CARRY them off the stage iwth your fair and up+b.
2. Get lots of grabs
Grabbing against the spacies is great. D-throw to u-air combo is your friend. As long as you can keep them above you, you can throw out u-air with immunity. They can't spam you with projectiles, and they have to land in such a way that you can keep the pressure on them.
3. When in doubt, get on a platform
Whenever I'm having trouble approaching a space animal, I just stand on a platform and try to bait a jump out of them. Once they jump I can get underneath them or grab them as they land, and focus more on 1 and 2. None of the spacies can shoot projectiles at an angle, and they all have pretty piss-poor range, so they aren't going to be floating in and out. This makes them easy to bait, easy to read, and easy to punish. If a spacie jumps at you and does an aerial, he's going to land, and you know exactly where he will land. Get a grab and get them above you or off the stage!
Keep in mind that at higher %, the spacies' recovery gets better and better, so make sure to get a KO with a u-throw if they are at high %.
Gimp strategies:
Grab at 0% by the edge. Hit him once for 2-3%. B-throw off the edge. Run off the edge (no jumping) and then hit him with a fair. If he wastes his jump, even better; jump and fair him. Follow up with fairs until he is below the stage and cannot recover using his up+b.
At this point you can grab the edge to prevent him from grabbing it with his up+b (just stall with your up+b so you can time the invincibility properly), or you can dair him out of his up+b since you'll know the trajectory he is going to have.
It's tricky, but if you get the first two fairs off it is all about using your up+b to follow up. He has such great lag out of his up+b that once he is below the stage you can take your time alternating between an up+b and a forward air. Just make sure you don't spam it. Spamming it means that he can DI it up and use his over-b to recover.
Against Fox:
Okay, the Fox thing is easy.
Step 1- If he u-tilts you, smash DI TOWARDS Fox. This will send you flying behind him. You aren't out of the water yet, but he can't stand there and mash up-tilt to kill you.
Step 2- Get out of the **** way. You can dash, roll, or even walk if you need to. If Fox is auto-canceling his dair, you've got time to get out of the way.
Against Wolf:
ROB destroys Wolf off the stage. Two or three hits is all it takes to kill Wolf even if he is at 0%. As such, stay on the stage.
It is important to know that Wolf can always be moving and throwing out aerials iwth 0 lag. His bair autocancels, as does his fair if used properly. This gives him a great aerial game, allowing him to constantly be throwing out attacks.
Make sure you save either your bair or f-smash as a KO move, otherwise you'll never get a KO.
If you're losing, it is very important that you run off to get a spike. ROB is large and easy to spike, so run out and downair him out of his up+b. It's also important to note that ROB can't air dodge out of his up+b unless he has done an attack, so he can't dodge it!
But basically, stay on the stage where your strengths lie and then play smart.
Why do you need to out prioritize wolf's f-smash? Just stay out of range. It isn't a move he can spam. Besides, if he does spam it, that means it is no longer a KO move. Just try spamming projectiles so he has to approach you. No one can approach with wolf's f-smash.
Also, just roll behind him and d-smash. Works for me.
We now have a weak spot! Anywhere above Wolf! That means approaching with fair/nair is a viable solution if you space it properly. Due to the little lag, you can throw out an f-tilt or series of d-tilts to auto-space Wolf out of range and try again if you can't get on the inside.
That said, you don't want to mindlessly approach a blaster spamming Wolf all the time. Use your head and throw out the gyro / laser every now and then and force him to move. Your fair eats through everything he has in the air, so if you can get him in the air don't be afraid to approach. You live much longer than him for multiple reasons, so don't be afriad to trade hits.
Since you know you **** him when he's airborne, if you get a grab and you can't get him off the edge, it would be wise to use d-throw or u-throw to get him in the air so you can challenge him there. Did I also mention that Wolf does poorly in the air? Throw out the d-smash when you can. It shield pokes very well, so if you naired his shield and were able to d-smash....
Just make sure Wolf isn't controlling the momentum. Wolf sucks in the air, but that doesn't mean he can't be dangerous when he's short hopping aerials! That's what good Wolf players do in the first place. So don't let him control the momentum. If he starts hopping around, play defensively, space your fairs, lasers, and gyros, and make him anticipate what you are going to do rather than just go on auto-pilot and throw out moves.
Wolf's not a hard matchup, but you can't let the Wolf win using an auto-pilot strategy. Soooooooo many Wolf players, especially online, just mash B until you are close and then f-smash or d-smash. That is not a winning strategy if you are patient, so just tell yourself "I did something wrong; I am being impatient and __________" then fill in the blank every time you get hit by one of his smashes.
Against Pit:
Pit isn't that big of an issue. Due to his jumps having very poor vertical lift, you can pressure him easily off the stage. The problem generally comes from his arrows. To approach, I generally powershield arrows and follow up with a laser (fully charged if possible) or gyromite and that gives me enough time to close the gap. Don't worry about taking a measly 20% from his arrows; he will die much faster than you ever will.
A good trick against a Pit that thinks he is tricky is to throw a weak gyromite towards him so that it will stop in front of him. Most Pit's think they are oh-so-clever by throwing up their reflecting shield, but the lag from that is more than enough to allow you to close the gap, and ROB destroys Pit in close range.
If the angel ring is Pit's over-b, I'd say to hit him out of it? If you hear him start to scream and throw that thing out, you should be able to get out of range with one initial dash animation unless you are really up in his grill (which you shouldn't be). After you are out of range, you can wait and punish the lag or just smash him out of it with your f-smash.
Against Olimar:
To approach Olimar, just f-tilt. It kills all pikmin but purples, and it has zero lag. Throwing a weak gyro so it is on the ground in front of him also works wonders. Once olimar is in the air he's vulnerable, and the spinning gyro messes up his over-b a lot.
Save your laser, spam gyro all day.
When your laser is full, get olimar off the edge then wait for him to jump, then laser him. Then grab the edge. Let him hit you with his up+b if he wants, he still won't grab it.
Against Pika:
Pika is pretty easy. Just outspam him so he has to come to you, juggle him with u-airs and hit him with d-smashes. Pika has no KO moves against ROB if you're smart. DI out of his d-smash by smashing up, and save your air dodge until after he says "PIKA" for the thunder.
Learn to out spam him by learning when you just need to shield his shocks and when you need to laser. You can ALWAYS powershield into laser for massive effects, and you can double jump laser and then stall with up+b if you want to get fancy.
Pika's Thunder out of d-smash / u-throw is the big thing.
Avoid thunder by watching Pika when you are in the air. He will ALWAYS throw out that thunder, so wait for him to start the animation, then air dodge. Throwing out bairs can also make it difficult for him to aim, but if you find yourself getting thundered out of a bair, your timing sucks and you should just focus on the air dodge.
D-smash and u-throw become nothing more than damage moves if ROB holds left or right whenever he goes "on the inside" or gets trapped by one of the moves. You have TONS of time to DI, so do it.
If you want to make d-smash even more useless, you can just DI up to get out of it! Depending on when you are sucked in you may need to smash DI, but that shouldn't be a problem either.
The worst part about pikachu is how he has multiple chances to KO you while you have to build up his damage and get off a good nair to kill him. This makes the matchup dangerous, but do not be fooled! It is in ROB's favor, because ROB has an immediate and active counter to everything Pikachu can pull out. Pika does not have this option, and therefore a smart ROB will always beat a Pika unless that Pika plays exceptionally well.
Don't go off the edge after pika unless you've got good timing. Generally just safer to stay on the stage and shoot stuff.
Pikachu is dangerous because he has such easy ways to KO you and such easy ways to spam. He doesn't have to aim, nor predict. He can downsmash you then spam down+b; it doesn't matter if you DI out or not, you can't punish it.
That said, it isn't a hard matchup. It's just an annoying one. Play it safe and punish him for spamming!
Whenever he thunderjolts, just shield it. If you can, powershield it then laser. Alternatively, you can double jump laser / gyro. If you get close to him, he's going to d-smash, so just bait it and hit him with something like a nair.
The idea is to just not get hit and make Pikachu have to approach you to do any serious harm. You KNOW when Pika is going to spam a certain move, so just bait it then capitalize.
Against Wario:
For Wario... it is all about being patient and edgeguarding properly. Wario HAS to get inside, so you can projectile all day and then try to face him when he rushes you. Your best bet is to get a grab off and use an f-throw or b-throw and then get him off teh edge. His recovery is SUPER predictable, so abuse it. You can get some nasty edgeguards off on Wario at really low %.
Against Lucario:
Lucario, at low %, will combo you to kingdom come. At higher %, he can KO you easily.
In this matchup, you HAVE to go for gimps when you can, or Lucario wins. If you projectile spam him above 120%, he can forward-air to n-air combo you for a KO, or just throw out dairs to kill you. That's dangerous. It's much safer to play the edge game (edge, not ledge; Lucario doesn't let you ledge camp due to his dair) and just keep trying to get Lucario off the stage. Once you know the distance of his up+b, it isn't too hard to understand how to gimp him, and that's basically going to be your game.
Lucario is best killed that way. On the stage, I would suggest hitting him with a fully charged gyro to get him off the stage, or a fully charged laser, and then going from there. It is not a good idea to let Lucario approach you, nor for you to approach Lucario. That doesn't mean ROB doesn't have options! He can still do the same things he does against most other characters. It is just more dangerous, so there are better strategies.
Against Zelda:
Your tilts are your friends. They will be your primary approach, as the only time it is safe to really approach Zelda is when she is on the defensive. Your f-tilt and d-tilt can both cause her to trip (good for you!) and your f-tilt can knock her far enough around so that you can attack realtively safely.
It's very good to approach Zelda when she is above you, as she is even more vulnerable than you are from below! This is a good way to rack up damage with your u-air. Good Zelda's will occasionally stall with their neutral b or simply up+b towards the ground if you double jump all the time, so be patient and careful.
You can't outspam Zelda in any way, but you CAN prevent her from spamming you. You can sit back on one side of the stage and wait for her to start her Din's fire, then just hit her with a laser, OR, you can stay just out of range of her smashes and dash attack so that if she did start to use Din's fire, you can run up, shield, and grab.
Grabs are your friend in this matchup! Your d-throw and u-throw both put her high above you, giving you the ability to rack up damage. Your kill move in this matchup will almost exclusively be the neutral air, and this will almost always be when she is recovering or if she messes up a fair/bair on your shield.
Her offensive options are strong, but patience can overcome all of them. Simply air dodging before she u-airs works, and you should always be able to shield her aerials and smashes. Just don't think you can follow up on every attack she throws out!
Definitely a hard matchup; ROB has to be suuuuuuuuper patient.
Against Poke-Trainer:
Not really, but the matchup isn't hard. Ivysaur is killed easily by one fair or laser after he jumps, Charizard can be comboed all day, and.... well, Squirtle is really good. Unfortuantely for the turtle, after 2 minutes he becomes weaker than a starving baby and ROB has an excellent waiting game. Then you get to deal with Ivysaur again, which is super easy for ROB.
Against Toon Link:
Get Toon Link above you. Once he's above you, he can dair and leave himself vulnerable or he can wait and get hit.
That's how I do it anyway. That's basically the entire matchup; getting him in the air, hitting him until he decides to dair, then smashing him out of the lag and lasering him.
Whenever Toon Link jumps AWAY from you to spam projectiles, simply do the same. Your spam game is better over long distances; his is better at close range, and can be used for setups easily.
This will force Toon Link to not jump away and get free damage; instead, he will have to jump towards you or remain stationary when spamming projectiles. This is where you actually fight the guy.
Against Toon Link, it is generally better to have a Wait And See approach. Toon Link is very vulnerable in the air, but only AFTER he has started to do something. Can you bait his dair? If so, you can punish him. Can you bait his fair? You can punish him. So on, so on.
Kill him vertically if possible. Going off the stage and nairing him is good, meeting him in the air and nairing is good. He has very predicitable hitboxes.
Against ROB:
In ROB dittos, you have to remember that you are on equal spamming ground. Spamming isn't hard!
Knowing that, if you are MORE skilled than your opponent... you want to approach. If you are LESS skilled than your opponent... you want to stay back and spam. Since spamming is so easy, you're dumbing down your opponents game by staying away!
Of course, that doesn't mean staying back and spamming has its correct time. If you are at high % and he's at low %, I suggest spamming with laser a lot.
The key to this matchup is saving your nair, using your bair as often as possible as a spacer, and your f-tilt. The bair is unpunishable by anything other than a gyro or laser, and your f-tilt is nigh unpunishable as well. Your main goal is to stay ON THE GROUND. If you jump and try to fair him and he jumps and fairs you, the winner of that situation is whoever hits the ground first. ROB has a horrible time when his opponent is below him, and ROB can easily get off 20-60% using only his u-air on a ROB that is directly above him.
ROB's recovery is also in jeopardy here. Save your laser when ROB is at higher %! ROB can't air dodge, and thus can't avoid the laser, when he is using his up+b unless he does an attack first. That means you can ALWAYS hit him with a fully charged laser! That might not seem like much, but the moment he does that, you can run off and chase him with YOUR up+b which will have double the fuel he does. Try to get ROB to go below the stage if possible, and remember that he can't punish a back air.
Your best approach in the game, by far, is the glide toss. Glide toss to grab to d-throw = instant win. You do SO much damage iwth that combined with all the u-airs you'll pull off. Just keep ROB above you, that's the game. Just like playing Marth vs. Sheik in Melee. It's all about keeping him above you.
Against Diddy:
As for Diddy... it depends a lot on the playstyle, honestly. Diddy players never seem to play the same. Keep in mind that Diddy dies fast, so spamming gyro/laser is a must (isn't it always?).
Also keep in mind that Diddy needs TWO bananas to really be worthwhile. So if you grab one of his bananas and, say, throw it straight up (you can glide toss and throw it straight up and attack out of the glide too!), he won't have that banana for a long, long time. That's good for you.
There are two times when Diddy is dangerous with a banana. One is when the banana is in front of Diddy and he can dash attack it, the other is when it is in his hand.
When it is in his hand, he is going to throw it. A few tricky Diddy's might drop it and use an aerial to auto-pick it up, but generally they are going to throw it. You can shield this. End of problem. It's not hard to powershield, so do it; then deal with Diddy as if he never had one. Considering Diddy doesn't have aerials that work well agaisnt ROB's spot dodge, a spot dodge to d-smash might work well.
When it is front of him and he is going to dash attack it, visualize exactly where his dash attack will end.
Don't stand there.
This means that Diddy will do his dash attack to pick up his banana, and hten it will be in his hand. Refer to the previous paragraph.
VIII. Team Strategies:
ROB is great at getting gimps in team games because he can take crazy risks because his recovery is so good. Most characters can make a halfhearted attempt at running off with a spike or a quick tap and back to the stage, but ROB can go all out like he does in singles with little to no pressure from the enemy, even if he messes up. That means you have to TAKE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES.
ROB, however, is not without flaws. Gimps are great and all, but you can't always get those. KOs are hard to get with ROB in singles, and it's even harder in teams! You almost have to rely completely on your teammate for good KOs. This is especially true since you can't laser spam or gyro properly because your teammate is in the way.
The fact that you said "roles change" shows that you're ahead of 90% of the players out there, at least mentally. ROB's main goal in team play it to aggressively edgeguard, break up fights that are going poorly by shooting a laser, and to rack up damage. Two u-airs from a ROB can be near 40% damage. 40%. If ROB did a u-throw to two u-air combo (about 50%) to an enemy and then grabbed him and Snake forward smashed that opponent, that opponent would die. That's how good ROB is at doing damage. Use that to your advantage, and know when to switch off! ROB can get gimps on low % opponents, but can't do much but tap high % opponents, so you gotta switch off even if it is hard. I learned this the hard way!
I. ROB's Moveset
II. General Advice
III. DI
IV. Camping Strategies
V. Ledge Strategies
VI. Stage Picks
VII. Character Specific Strategies
VIII. Team Strategies
I. ROB's Moveset:
Jab:
*Not much info yet. OS basically said he needs to learn to implement this more. In other words, very situational.
Dash Attack:
His dash attack, like most dash attacks, can be shield grabbed. This makes it a poor approach when used improperly, and thus will ALWAYS be a gamble when attacking a grounded opponent (since they can shield). You can attempt to run through them and dash attack (which still will hit them and make you appear on the other side) or hit them with the very edge of the attack, but you are still vulnerable, albeit at different points.
So how do you know when to use the dash attack?
You use it whenever your opponent is in the air or is teching/rolling!
His dash attack has a great hitbox, and hits a good ways above ROB. Even better is the knockback factor of it! It's so slight at low % that you can often follow it up with u-tilts and u-airs. At high %, you can always pressure your opponent from it and sometimes get off an u-smash.
So when your opponent is landing, dash attack before they hit the ground! It is not advisable to do this against opponents with a good KO aerial, but for those with damage dealing fairs it is a godsend. The dash attack sends them BACK up into the air while you move only slightly, and you can then follow up with another dash attack or aerial.
The reason this strategy is so good goes into the whole "yomi layer" idea.
If you are going to dash attack a landing opponent and he knows it, he can do two things that are effective.
1. Air dodge
2. Attack you before you attack him
Very few aerials come out fast enough with enough range to prevent ROB from at least hitting him as well. At the right %, ROB can take 12% to give out a dash attack and still wind up with more damage being dealt to the opponent due to pressuring.
Besides that, if your opponent gets in the habit of doing an aerial (or countering in some cases), you can simply run up and shield.
If your opponent air dodges, he is a fool! The dash attack has very little lag, and can be followed up with a d-smash easily. This will again launch your opponent into the air.
Pressuing landing opponents with dash attacks (mixed up with grabs + d-throw for combo / pressure potential) is a great way of forcing your opponent to fight a brick wall before he actually fights you.
Tilts:
His f-tilt and d-tilt are both fairly spammable. There is little lag, and they can be used frequently to start harassing your opponent. Even better is that they have low knockback, so using them to recharge your stronger moves is a great idea.
F-tilt:
*OS didn't go into detail about the f-tilt by itself, but he did cover it in several posts. Basically this is a fast attack with high priority and can be used very effectively when spaced properly.
D-tilt:
It sounds like he's saying "**** **** **** ****" when he uses it, and it always makes me laugh.
Up-tilt:
Abuse soft hits. You can follow that up with an angled forward tilt against many characters, which can then be followed up by a running u-smash or a grab.
Aerials
Fair:
*Talked about extensively in posts but never by itself. Great move for harassing off the stage. Can be used very effectively if spaced properly.
Nair:
*Well I ****in love this move, but I didn't see OS talk of it much.
Bair:
ROB's back air is, by far, the move that sets his aerial game apart from other characters.
It autocancels, it fastfalls easily (just hold down, yo), and it auto-spaces. It can also aut-cancel. These things combined make it a great move.
If you are using it facing away, it autospaces you outside of the range of ANY attack save for fast projectiles and the like. Regardless, it autocancels so you can shield or roll.
You can also use it towards a shielding opponent, fast fall, and then d-smash or d-tilt depending on the location of your opponent.
If you hit someone at low % with a back air that pushes you towards them, you can almost always get off a sick combo. Back-air, d-tilt, down-smash, followed by a u-air and a fall-away laser. If your laser is charged, this leads you to an edgeguarding opportunity.
The back-air is also great for recovering, but we all know that by now. Use it to push you towards the stage.
Something else that's great about the back-air is the delay it has! You can use this to your advantage. If you treat the backair like, say, Fox's back-air, you'll just get in trouble. When you are playing an opponent that routinely air dodges (hellooooooooo Snake), jump into their "zone" and use your back-air. Often they will air dodge quickly, meaning that the delay in your back-air will be just long enough to destroy them.
This also hold true on the ledge! Most people stay on the ledge for all of their invincibility frames, so you can run off and back-air near the end and hit them into the stage for a surprise spike!
Did I also mention that throwing down a gyro then jumping over it and repeatedly back-airing is completely impassable by any character? If they don't have a projectile, they literally can't safely approach you. It's a fun game to play against noobs.
Dair:
The dair spike should only be used when there is no way they can avoid it, or if you can call on your enemy, or if you are using it to force them off the ledge. It isn't that great of a move.
If you do happen to get it off on the stage and they hit the ground, float towards them and back-air. If they stand up or roll the direction you are facing when you bair, you'll hit them. I'ts a neat little combo, but totally up to your opponent if it works.
Stalling with dair has two good uses:
1. You know your opponent is going to double jump aerial (most snakes do that to hit with a u-air for a KO), and will thus need to land after doing so. Stalling once with dair gives you some more "safe time".
2. You are trying to mindgame your opponent by going straight down, dairing, and then floating to the left or right afterwards. This is especially effective near the ledge, when you can dair and float towards the ledge to auto-grab and is night unpunishable.
Uair:
*Good damage racker, combos well, nifty as heck. Fun to harass people with and can wreck characters that have poor dairs like nobodies business. Makes for fun happy platform harassment as well.
B Moves
Forward B:
I use forward-b sparingly. It is great for reflecting projectiles, and I often will do it into people's shields and angle it downwards so it will shield poke them towards the end of the over-b (thus reducing any lag it would normally have!).
Gyro:
I use the gyro in every matchup. Whenever a character has a reflector, they are going to use it. When you can FORCE them to use their reflector, you can FORCE them to have a bout of lag at your expense. While it would normally be a better idea to air dodge if someone throws a gyro at you, they will often reflect out of instinct.
Just keep in mind that you can launch a weak gyro, pick it up, then throw it like an item. That makes it easier to dodge if they reflect it.
I often will just simply place the gyro spinning on the ground so as to limit their movement range. Sitting it on top of a platform, especially on battlefield, makes it very hard for any character to escape an approaching ROB.
For the gyro, you generally want to either hit the opponent or use it to prevent some mode of movement. If you set it in front of them, they have to dash attack, jump, or roll over it. If you set it above them on a platform, they can't jump unless they air dodge. If you sit in right in front of the ledge when they are on it, they will have to jump, roll, or simply wait on the ledge.
Limiting your opponents options in this way allows you to have a much easier time punishing them. Just keep in mind what would work best. Setting a gyro in front of a character that has a great aerial game won't do very much; they're going in the air anyway. Might be better off shooting that gyro above them and forcing them to stay on the ground for a moment or two!
FYI, if you are ever charging a gyro, it is FASTER to shoot it rather than air dodge. This is important for if you start charging by accident. I suicided once yesterday in tournament because I air dodged instead of shooting, so I went and figured it out. Shooting to up+b = muchos faster.
ROB can do aerials while holding the gyro. He cannot do ground attacks without a glide toss.
To do aerials while holding the gyro, hit Z (this will "drop" the gyro), then immediately do an aerial attack. There is no delay in this, and you pick up the gyro automatically.
Up B (Jump Jets?):
One other trick for those reading this far... did you know if you use your up+b, you still save your double jump? It gives you more horizontal distance to just tap up+b when on the stage than short hopping off, and you move a lot faster. This REALLY helps destory people like the space animals or Snake who like to recover from just out of normal short hop range. Just tap up+b and throw those fairs out, and then you still have your double-jump AND the rest of your up+b fuel! Be careful though; if you use your up+b with improper timing, you'll waste your jump. I generally just tap up+b once and use my jump next so I don't lose the extra height.
Laser:
Rob's laser has 3. Immediately after use, it is a close range blast (this attack stays for the other two lasers as well, but is only close range) that has small knockback. After one second, it has the normal "weak and fast" laser. The larger, slower, stronger laser appears exactly 20 seconds after use (watch that timer!).
His up+b refuels only on the stage, and it takes 2-3 seconds for it to refuel completely. Touching the stage and jumping does not allow it to charge. Grabbing the ledge only gives him the initial "push"; this means that ROB can't camp the ledge with his up+B, so keep that in mind!
The robo beam has two uses. Damage, and KOs.
I find myself saving it a lot when my opponent gets to higher %, and I generally tend to save it against tether recoveries since it works so well against them. Throw it out in the beginning (your first laser only needs a few seconds to be fully charged, so your first should always be a biggin', but after that throw the tiny ones out ). Once they are at a % that allows you to knock them off the stage a good distance, keep that laser in mind.
Smashes
Forward Smash:
*Good move, but not spectacular. Learn to aim this mofo.
Down Smash:
Any character can escape the d-smash by simply holding up. This allows you, oftentimes, to follow up with a grab, gyro, or laser. D-smash is still a good move, but just know when you need to focus on using u-air as a damage dealer instead of d-smash.
Up Smash:
*Premier upwards KO. Kinda awkward but pretty powerful.
Throws:
His f-throw and b-throw are great at low % since you can chain unsuspecting opponents. My favorite starting combo is grab, b-throw, grab, b-throw, grab, d-throw, u-air. It does well above 50% and you're going to be able to hit with a laser or gyro afterwards, and then it's only a u-air or two away from KO percentage. That's all without using your KO moves!
Other than that, f-throw and b-throw are great for what they are but aren't KO moves unless your opponent doesn't DI. If they do, it's even worse than Peach's f-throw from Melee. So, to combo or set up for a KO, you almost always have to d-throw or u-throw.
However...
u-throw can be DIed much greater than d-throw can (meaning you can't follow up a u-throw if your opponent is DIing)
and
u-throw is a KO move at high % if you don't use it.
So use your d-throw all day and you can combo with u-air (make sure to double jump to u-air immediately at higher %, and at even higher % just double jump then up+B for a rising u-air and chase them out of the last hit). It's also important to note that out of a u-throw at low %, your opponent can air dodge once and reach the ground easily. Out of a d-throw, a smart ROB can space his u-air so that even if his opponent air dodges, ROB is right on top of him and can do any aerial he wants.
Your u-throw will kill at anywhere from 160-250% depending on the character. Those seem like high numbers, but as anyone that's played ROB knows, dealing damage is never an issue. If I have a Metaknight at 120% and he just won't die, I will happily spam f-tilt, d-tilt, lasers, and gyros until I can get a grab and just u-throw him for the kill.
I'm not sure why u-throw is a KO move while d-throw is not. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that u-throw has a greater increase in knockback as % goes up, while d-throw just has a higher initial knockback but doesn't increase as greatly.
II. General Advice:
A.
Everyone is different. Play defensively when you first see your opponent until you can read them.
The first three things I learn about an opponent are the following:
1. If you are running straight at an opponent, do they shield, attack, do a retreating aerial, run away, or what?
The answer to this determines whether you can fake them out by running then stopping, running and jumping backwards, whether you should dash attack, grab, etc.
2. When you throw or hit them off the edge at low %, do they immediately jump or do they wait and fall?
Noobs generally jump into the ****, experienced players generally wait and fall and try to read YOU. You can do something out of either. I generally just forward air or laser them. If you know they will jump, you can jump and fair them out of the initial jump animation and they will lose their jump and gain no height. Great for gimping!
3. If you stand back and spam projectiles, what do they do? Do they approach? Shield? Ledge camp? Shoot back?
What they do in this situation determines a lot about your match. Many players are totally at a loss as to what to do.
If you watch videos of me playing inexperienced players, you'll find it is often me spamming projectiles from far away until they approach, then I throw them off the edge and edgeguard. Or, if they get to high % and don't approach, I run forward, grab, and kill them with a u-throw, f-throw, or b-throw.
B.
When you fair them off the stage, you win the battle.
When you projectile spam even when you could easily KO them, you break their soul.
That, my friend, wins you the war.
Why simply beat an opponent in one round? That only lights a fire under them and sends them off to train until they can defeat you. No, it is much more fufilling to break their spirit. Make them throw the controller down and say "to hell with this game" and then sell their copy of Brawl.
That is the ultimate victory. To beat someone so badly that they hate the game itself.
C.
A "brick wall" is a strategy that has a very specific counter, yet is very specific and simple in how it is done.
Rob has many "brick walls" that are difficult to get around.
Simply spamming his fair or f-tilt properly is a brick wall.
Short hopping towards your opponent and bairing is a brick wall.
Dash attacking / shield grabbing upon landing is a brick wall.
Camping the ledge / running away and shooting lasers / gyros is a brick wall.
Bad players always lose to "brick wall" strategies. Always. That's why you could camp the ledge with Fox and just b-throw to shine against bad players and win in 30 seconds. It was easy for you to do, and the opponent hadn't become used to the idea yet. It was hard for us too at first, but after we learned the game better, we could get around it.
Currently, brick walls will work on 95% of the community hands down. I've won several matches simply by throwing out brick wall after brick wall and never actually having to fight. The advantage to these strategies is that they force your opponent to rely upon past experience, and YOU are in control as to when they stop and start.
I can run away and laser all day, and once I feel my opponent has figured it out I can start camping with fairs or short hopping towards them and bairing. These simple strategies make it easy for me to change my playstyle in enormous ways, and are terrifying to the unexperience opponent. Use these against players in tournaments that seem to be "naturally" better than you, and they may very well fall apart.
Find one you are good at, and always start off matches agaisnt new opponents with it until they figure it out. When they DO figure it out, you've already noticed and are now playing "for real" and they have to figure you out all over again while you know everything about them.
III. DI:
As for DI... it is generally best you DI up and opposite of the directino you are being hit. So if they are hitting you to the left, DI up and to the right. DIing down sends you on a straight line towards the edge, thus killing you faster.
Smash DI, or hitting the control stick the moment you get hit (during the initial frames), is stronger than simply holding the control stick. Some attacks are multi-hit, meaning you can smash DI multiple times. Seeing as how the c-stick can be used for smash DI (it doesn't register "holding" the stick; you have to smash it), you can smash both sticks repeatedly for super fast smash DI. This will get you out of smash attacks! So practice DI in training mode against an opponent that is using these attacks.
How much less deadly would snake be if you could DI out of his neutral air? Fox, out of his forward air? Zelda out of her f-smash or u-smash? ROB out of his u-air? Metaknight out of his forward-air?
It could very well be possible (and I know it is possible for at least half the ones above), and helps you greatly.
IV. Camping Strategies
Three major forms of camping:
1. Ledge camping
2. Distance camping
3. Zoning (in yo face camping)
#1 is easy enough. You get on the ledge, you camp it. It is more difficult to be hit here by most projectiles, and your opponent will often approach you out of frustration. Better yet, you can hit a button and be invincible for a moment! That said, it is a dangerous place to be; you can easily be gimped here if you mess up.
It is useful though when your opponent is using some form of distance camping or if he's just plain dumb. Zoning, #3, counters ledge camping hardcore. What most people don't realize is that when someone goes and grabs the edge, they can be EDGE GUARDED. That means you treat them as if they are coming back from the stage. Not run up to the edge and get *****.
Keep ledge camping to a minimum, but use it when you feel you are being overwhelmed on the stage in a straight up encounter, or when you want the stage to suddenly be a lot smaller.
#2 is the annoying one that I'm infamous for. It is shown best in the Jungle Japes match against Jiano. Basically, distance camping means you put a long area between you and your opponent and you shoot things at them until they get to you. This often causes them a lot of damage, frustration, and puts them in a vulnerable position because they are attempting to avoid your projectiles.
This is best used when your opponent doesn't have a projectile, has a poor or easily avoidable projectile, or has very laggy aerials (since he will almost always have to come in with an aerial to avoid your projectiles.
To improve the quality of this form of camping, know that you don't have to stay in one spot. If he jumps over your head, run to the other side and make him scream.
Distance camping isn't hard to counter either. No matter the projectile, simply holding down L or R makes your projectile worthless. If your opponent is patient, smart, and knows their character and yours, this will never work. Even worse, you are often near the edge when you do this! That puts you in a vulnerable position and makes your measly 18% dealt in projectile damage seem like nothing.
Distance camping should generally be turned off the moment your opponent gets close. Once they are on the "inside", don't worry about dealing damage. Worry about avoiding it.
#3, zoning, is the true and most effective form of camping. This is what every good player does, has done, and always will do. It is what smash, not Brawl, but SMASH, is. Every single game in the series.
What "zoning" is... is best defined when thinking about hitboxes. Imagine Marth in your head, and now imagine him doing all of his ground attacks . Imagine that the hitboxes stay up around him after he attacks and they are highlighted for all to see. What you are imagining is the "danger zone" that you can fall into.
Zoning involves staying OUT of that danger zone and waiting for him to do some sort of attack, trip, shield, or some other sort of laggy thing. Then you rush inside the danger zone that is no longer dangerous!
This is how you play EVERY CHARACTER and EVERY MATCHUP. This is a lot more precise in Brawl than it was in Melee, so you have to be careful.
In summary
you want to ledge camp when your opponent is owning you on the stage and you need a high risk + high reward situation, or if your opponent is just plain old dumb
you want to distance camp when your opponent has horrible aerials, no projectile, a bad projectile, or is owning you in close encounters that start on his terms. Distance camping makes everything on your terms.
you want to practice zoning at all times, as it is the heart of smash.
Q&A:
Is there a concrete time in which you decide that camping is definitely better than taking an offensive stance?
When I'm at high % and a stock ahead. The risk/reward situation changes. At that point, any damage I receive is worthless to my opponent. Any damage he receives is great for me. I'm inevitably going to lose the stock; I'm at a high %. He's being pushed closer to losing a stock.
Running towards him to get off grab combos or fair combos or other high damage dealing strings might seem like a good idea... but it isn't. He WILL come to you. So, pelt him with lasers and gyros until he gets close. THEN go for the string if you can't get out. No reason to stick your neck out for something not guaranteed when you can always get at least 10% off of lasers and gyros.
When I want to win, I camp D3 to hell and back. I also camp out Snake a lot. Same with all the other slow characters.
I also camp frequently on stages like Luigi's Mansion, Frigate, and Jungle Japes.
On Japes, if I camp on the right side and he hits me, I can fly over, go to the water and come out the other side, or go to one of the two ledges on the side. Super easy and safe.
On Mansion, I can stay behind one of hte pillars on the bottom and spam laser. If I get hit off, I can shoot a gyro at the pillar and the gyro will bounce back and guard the ledge for me. I can also fly above the stage and land on the top to recharge my fuel and jumps.
On Frigate, I can jump on the side plats that stick out and spam laser/gyro. If the player comes to get me, I can grab and b-throw him easily. Sometimes I can grab and just hold him or d-throw and get a KO as the plat leaves the stage if I'm a stock ahead.
If my opponent is really aggressive, I always camp. It's too good to just grab a ledge and hit a person over and over when he gets close... losing to ledge camping is about as embarassing as it gets.
And on the assumption of playstyle: What are some movements (by your opponent) that tell you when you should go aggressive or defensive?
Look for an opponent's "wakeup" signs. When they are suddenly hit in the air, do they jump first, do an attack, air dodge, what? When they are on the ledge? When they get hit on the ground? When they trip?
Most noobs jump immediately after being hit, roll when they are on the ledge, getup attack on the ground, and roll backwards when they trip. Look for those and abuse them... those situations are habit formed 100% of the time. Even the best players simply have something they almost always do out of instinct. It isn't until after you start punishing them that they observe you first.
V. Ledge Strategies:
If you are on the ledge, you have to realize you don't NEED to get off unless it is safe. You can laser, gyro, and fair to your heart's content. Just make sure you aren't using your up+B; if you are, just roll onto the stage so you will get some back even if you are hit.
Keep in mind you can also drop off the ledge and jump straight up, nair, then grab the ledge and immediately jump off and fair. If someone is camping by the edge and is going to shield grab you if you fair, you have many options.
One, jump and nair (not drop off and nair). This is very fast, powerful, and sends you behind them.
Two, drop off then jump and fair to bair. Double fair doesn't work as well, but you can fair then bair (hitting them when they are in front of you) and you will land behind them. You can then d-smash if they haven't been hit or rolled away yet, and it will inevitably shield poke them.
You can also drop off the ledge then jump and u-air; the final hit from the u-air has a suction effect that seems to teleport ROB onto the ledge, and it has very little lag so you can follow it up with a d-smash or jab.
To make it tricky, ROB has to use everything he has. I suggest shooting a gyro and trying to land it on the stage in front of the ledge; this is a sure way to make it back safely. The only issue comes when your opponent is smart enough to smash it off or run up and shield it, but even then it helps by buying you time.
Keep in mind that you have PLENTY of up+b since you HAVE been using your b-air for extra horizontal distance. That means if someone is grabbing the ledge, you can stall with your up+b and just throw out fair, bair, dair, nair, or u-air to force them to get off the ledge. No one should ever grab the ledge and be able to do anything to ROB ever. At the very least you can fly over them.
Speaking of flying over them, if your opponent doesn't have a very good vertical KO move, just fly with your up+b to the center of the stage and then let yourself fall. Air dodge when you need to, touch the ground, and you are set.
Another trick I do quite often is to go underneath the stage. If done properly, you can turn around while under the stage and go to the other ledge! You might say "well no one will fall for that", and that's true, but your opponent will rarely space themselves properly if you are forcing them to run back and forth across the stage. That's the real trick to it.
The real issue always comes when you grab the ledge. What do you do? ROB has surprisingly few "safe" options even though he has an amazing moveset.
If they are standing near the edge, your options are pretty awesome.
Drop off to jump + double fair (or my personal favorite, fair + bair, which can be followed by a d-smash if they roll towards you)
drop off to jump + u-air (if you space it properly, the last hit of the u-air will teleport ROB onto the stage!)
Simply rolling or getting onto the stage to refuel your up+b enough to allow you to get back to the center of the stage
Jump off ledge to nair (this is surprisingly fast, as jumping off the ledge has the least delay of all "off the ledge" moves; this is the opposite from Melee)
Drop off, jump away, gyro, go back to ledge
They are all good, but obviously not unstoppable. A good spot dodge or well spaced shield combined with a patient opponent leads ROB to be throw back out into the open, and unlike other characters, he doesn't get his up+b back after being hit!
That said, your main goal if you've been knocked back off ONCE is to touch the stage, even if you will take a hit. Otherwise, you'll be dead anyways. So just roll and touch the ground for a moment.
The worst edgeguarders are those that stand just out of reach of your initial fair (which is right in front of where your roll will land. Against these opponents, you have to pressure them to move TOWARDS you. Simply jump off the ledge, laser, and then you will auto grab. You can also do this with a gyro, but it is harder to time so you'll have to up+b a short bit.
If you can't force them to move in close, I suggest just standing up on the ledge and then rolling towards them or spot dodging as quickly as possible; this recharges your up+b and gives you a greater chance of recovering than trying some high risk tactic like reaching out with your nair or fair.
Did I also mention that jumping off ledge to air dodge is great to avoid edgeguarders like Marth that like to short hop fair or f-smash the moment you get off the ledge?
Because it is.
VI. Stage Picks:
Luigi's Mansion is good. You can d-smash **** there all day, AND his lasers go through the pillars. Even better, his gyro doesn't so you can throw a gyro at the pillars and it will land in front of the edge. This gives you extra protection upon recovering.
Frigate Orpheon is amazing. On the stage transformation that has the platform on the right/left that goes on and off, you can just laser/gyro camp there with your up+b all day. The plat comes back before you run out! Even better, you can easily kill from there with a b-throw if they choose to approach. If need be, you can d-smash your opponent to "suck him in" as the plat goes off the side, giving you a KO.
VII. Character Specific Strategies:
Against Space Animals:
Space animals can do a wonder on ROB if ROB doesn't play to his strengths.
Fox can combo him to hell and back, and Falco can cause all sorts of problems. Wolf, when played properly, can have a wall of moves constantly giving ROB trouble.
Three things you can do to make these matchups easier.
1. Keep the battle off the stage as often as possible
All the space animals have awful recoveries. They are predictable, and if you simply get them below the stage they can't use their over-b. This is good for you, since you can pressure them so hard you can actually CARRY them off the stage iwth your fair and up+b.
2. Get lots of grabs
Grabbing against the spacies is great. D-throw to u-air combo is your friend. As long as you can keep them above you, you can throw out u-air with immunity. They can't spam you with projectiles, and they have to land in such a way that you can keep the pressure on them.
3. When in doubt, get on a platform
Whenever I'm having trouble approaching a space animal, I just stand on a platform and try to bait a jump out of them. Once they jump I can get underneath them or grab them as they land, and focus more on 1 and 2. None of the spacies can shoot projectiles at an angle, and they all have pretty piss-poor range, so they aren't going to be floating in and out. This makes them easy to bait, easy to read, and easy to punish. If a spacie jumps at you and does an aerial, he's going to land, and you know exactly where he will land. Get a grab and get them above you or off the stage!
Keep in mind that at higher %, the spacies' recovery gets better and better, so make sure to get a KO with a u-throw if they are at high %.
Gimp strategies:
Grab at 0% by the edge. Hit him once for 2-3%. B-throw off the edge. Run off the edge (no jumping) and then hit him with a fair. If he wastes his jump, even better; jump and fair him. Follow up with fairs until he is below the stage and cannot recover using his up+b.
At this point you can grab the edge to prevent him from grabbing it with his up+b (just stall with your up+b so you can time the invincibility properly), or you can dair him out of his up+b since you'll know the trajectory he is going to have.
It's tricky, but if you get the first two fairs off it is all about using your up+b to follow up. He has such great lag out of his up+b that once he is below the stage you can take your time alternating between an up+b and a forward air. Just make sure you don't spam it. Spamming it means that he can DI it up and use his over-b to recover.
Against Fox:
Okay, the Fox thing is easy.
Step 1- If he u-tilts you, smash DI TOWARDS Fox. This will send you flying behind him. You aren't out of the water yet, but he can't stand there and mash up-tilt to kill you.
Step 2- Get out of the **** way. You can dash, roll, or even walk if you need to. If Fox is auto-canceling his dair, you've got time to get out of the way.
Against Wolf:
ROB destroys Wolf off the stage. Two or three hits is all it takes to kill Wolf even if he is at 0%. As such, stay on the stage.
It is important to know that Wolf can always be moving and throwing out aerials iwth 0 lag. His bair autocancels, as does his fair if used properly. This gives him a great aerial game, allowing him to constantly be throwing out attacks.
Make sure you save either your bair or f-smash as a KO move, otherwise you'll never get a KO.
If you're losing, it is very important that you run off to get a spike. ROB is large and easy to spike, so run out and downair him out of his up+b. It's also important to note that ROB can't air dodge out of his up+b unless he has done an attack, so he can't dodge it!
But basically, stay on the stage where your strengths lie and then play smart.
Why do you need to out prioritize wolf's f-smash? Just stay out of range. It isn't a move he can spam. Besides, if he does spam it, that means it is no longer a KO move. Just try spamming projectiles so he has to approach you. No one can approach with wolf's f-smash.
Also, just roll behind him and d-smash. Works for me.
We now have a weak spot! Anywhere above Wolf! That means approaching with fair/nair is a viable solution if you space it properly. Due to the little lag, you can throw out an f-tilt or series of d-tilts to auto-space Wolf out of range and try again if you can't get on the inside.
That said, you don't want to mindlessly approach a blaster spamming Wolf all the time. Use your head and throw out the gyro / laser every now and then and force him to move. Your fair eats through everything he has in the air, so if you can get him in the air don't be afraid to approach. You live much longer than him for multiple reasons, so don't be afriad to trade hits.
Since you know you **** him when he's airborne, if you get a grab and you can't get him off the edge, it would be wise to use d-throw or u-throw to get him in the air so you can challenge him there. Did I also mention that Wolf does poorly in the air? Throw out the d-smash when you can. It shield pokes very well, so if you naired his shield and were able to d-smash....
Just make sure Wolf isn't controlling the momentum. Wolf sucks in the air, but that doesn't mean he can't be dangerous when he's short hopping aerials! That's what good Wolf players do in the first place. So don't let him control the momentum. If he starts hopping around, play defensively, space your fairs, lasers, and gyros, and make him anticipate what you are going to do rather than just go on auto-pilot and throw out moves.
Wolf's not a hard matchup, but you can't let the Wolf win using an auto-pilot strategy. Soooooooo many Wolf players, especially online, just mash B until you are close and then f-smash or d-smash. That is not a winning strategy if you are patient, so just tell yourself "I did something wrong; I am being impatient and __________" then fill in the blank every time you get hit by one of his smashes.
Against Pit:
Pit isn't that big of an issue. Due to his jumps having very poor vertical lift, you can pressure him easily off the stage. The problem generally comes from his arrows. To approach, I generally powershield arrows and follow up with a laser (fully charged if possible) or gyromite and that gives me enough time to close the gap. Don't worry about taking a measly 20% from his arrows; he will die much faster than you ever will.
A good trick against a Pit that thinks he is tricky is to throw a weak gyromite towards him so that it will stop in front of him. Most Pit's think they are oh-so-clever by throwing up their reflecting shield, but the lag from that is more than enough to allow you to close the gap, and ROB destroys Pit in close range.
If the angel ring is Pit's over-b, I'd say to hit him out of it? If you hear him start to scream and throw that thing out, you should be able to get out of range with one initial dash animation unless you are really up in his grill (which you shouldn't be). After you are out of range, you can wait and punish the lag or just smash him out of it with your f-smash.
Against Olimar:
To approach Olimar, just f-tilt. It kills all pikmin but purples, and it has zero lag. Throwing a weak gyro so it is on the ground in front of him also works wonders. Once olimar is in the air he's vulnerable, and the spinning gyro messes up his over-b a lot.
Save your laser, spam gyro all day.
When your laser is full, get olimar off the edge then wait for him to jump, then laser him. Then grab the edge. Let him hit you with his up+b if he wants, he still won't grab it.
Against Pika:
Pika is pretty easy. Just outspam him so he has to come to you, juggle him with u-airs and hit him with d-smashes. Pika has no KO moves against ROB if you're smart. DI out of his d-smash by smashing up, and save your air dodge until after he says "PIKA" for the thunder.
Learn to out spam him by learning when you just need to shield his shocks and when you need to laser. You can ALWAYS powershield into laser for massive effects, and you can double jump laser and then stall with up+b if you want to get fancy.
Pika's Thunder out of d-smash / u-throw is the big thing.
Avoid thunder by watching Pika when you are in the air. He will ALWAYS throw out that thunder, so wait for him to start the animation, then air dodge. Throwing out bairs can also make it difficult for him to aim, but if you find yourself getting thundered out of a bair, your timing sucks and you should just focus on the air dodge.
D-smash and u-throw become nothing more than damage moves if ROB holds left or right whenever he goes "on the inside" or gets trapped by one of the moves. You have TONS of time to DI, so do it.
If you want to make d-smash even more useless, you can just DI up to get out of it! Depending on when you are sucked in you may need to smash DI, but that shouldn't be a problem either.
The worst part about pikachu is how he has multiple chances to KO you while you have to build up his damage and get off a good nair to kill him. This makes the matchup dangerous, but do not be fooled! It is in ROB's favor, because ROB has an immediate and active counter to everything Pikachu can pull out. Pika does not have this option, and therefore a smart ROB will always beat a Pika unless that Pika plays exceptionally well.
Don't go off the edge after pika unless you've got good timing. Generally just safer to stay on the stage and shoot stuff.
Pikachu is dangerous because he has such easy ways to KO you and such easy ways to spam. He doesn't have to aim, nor predict. He can downsmash you then spam down+b; it doesn't matter if you DI out or not, you can't punish it.
That said, it isn't a hard matchup. It's just an annoying one. Play it safe and punish him for spamming!
Whenever he thunderjolts, just shield it. If you can, powershield it then laser. Alternatively, you can double jump laser / gyro. If you get close to him, he's going to d-smash, so just bait it and hit him with something like a nair.
The idea is to just not get hit and make Pikachu have to approach you to do any serious harm. You KNOW when Pika is going to spam a certain move, so just bait it then capitalize.
Against Wario:
For Wario... it is all about being patient and edgeguarding properly. Wario HAS to get inside, so you can projectile all day and then try to face him when he rushes you. Your best bet is to get a grab off and use an f-throw or b-throw and then get him off teh edge. His recovery is SUPER predictable, so abuse it. You can get some nasty edgeguards off on Wario at really low %.
Against Lucario:
Lucario, at low %, will combo you to kingdom come. At higher %, he can KO you easily.
In this matchup, you HAVE to go for gimps when you can, or Lucario wins. If you projectile spam him above 120%, he can forward-air to n-air combo you for a KO, or just throw out dairs to kill you. That's dangerous. It's much safer to play the edge game (edge, not ledge; Lucario doesn't let you ledge camp due to his dair) and just keep trying to get Lucario off the stage. Once you know the distance of his up+b, it isn't too hard to understand how to gimp him, and that's basically going to be your game.
Lucario is best killed that way. On the stage, I would suggest hitting him with a fully charged gyro to get him off the stage, or a fully charged laser, and then going from there. It is not a good idea to let Lucario approach you, nor for you to approach Lucario. That doesn't mean ROB doesn't have options! He can still do the same things he does against most other characters. It is just more dangerous, so there are better strategies.
Against Zelda:
Your tilts are your friends. They will be your primary approach, as the only time it is safe to really approach Zelda is when she is on the defensive. Your f-tilt and d-tilt can both cause her to trip (good for you!) and your f-tilt can knock her far enough around so that you can attack realtively safely.
It's very good to approach Zelda when she is above you, as she is even more vulnerable than you are from below! This is a good way to rack up damage with your u-air. Good Zelda's will occasionally stall with their neutral b or simply up+b towards the ground if you double jump all the time, so be patient and careful.
You can't outspam Zelda in any way, but you CAN prevent her from spamming you. You can sit back on one side of the stage and wait for her to start her Din's fire, then just hit her with a laser, OR, you can stay just out of range of her smashes and dash attack so that if she did start to use Din's fire, you can run up, shield, and grab.
Grabs are your friend in this matchup! Your d-throw and u-throw both put her high above you, giving you the ability to rack up damage. Your kill move in this matchup will almost exclusively be the neutral air, and this will almost always be when she is recovering or if she messes up a fair/bair on your shield.
Her offensive options are strong, but patience can overcome all of them. Simply air dodging before she u-airs works, and you should always be able to shield her aerials and smashes. Just don't think you can follow up on every attack she throws out!
Definitely a hard matchup; ROB has to be suuuuuuuuper patient.
Against Poke-Trainer:
Not really, but the matchup isn't hard. Ivysaur is killed easily by one fair or laser after he jumps, Charizard can be comboed all day, and.... well, Squirtle is really good. Unfortuantely for the turtle, after 2 minutes he becomes weaker than a starving baby and ROB has an excellent waiting game. Then you get to deal with Ivysaur again, which is super easy for ROB.
Against Toon Link:
Get Toon Link above you. Once he's above you, he can dair and leave himself vulnerable or he can wait and get hit.
That's how I do it anyway. That's basically the entire matchup; getting him in the air, hitting him until he decides to dair, then smashing him out of the lag and lasering him.
Whenever Toon Link jumps AWAY from you to spam projectiles, simply do the same. Your spam game is better over long distances; his is better at close range, and can be used for setups easily.
This will force Toon Link to not jump away and get free damage; instead, he will have to jump towards you or remain stationary when spamming projectiles. This is where you actually fight the guy.
Against Toon Link, it is generally better to have a Wait And See approach. Toon Link is very vulnerable in the air, but only AFTER he has started to do something. Can you bait his dair? If so, you can punish him. Can you bait his fair? You can punish him. So on, so on.
Kill him vertically if possible. Going off the stage and nairing him is good, meeting him in the air and nairing is good. He has very predicitable hitboxes.
Against ROB:
In ROB dittos, you have to remember that you are on equal spamming ground. Spamming isn't hard!
Knowing that, if you are MORE skilled than your opponent... you want to approach. If you are LESS skilled than your opponent... you want to stay back and spam. Since spamming is so easy, you're dumbing down your opponents game by staying away!
Of course, that doesn't mean staying back and spamming has its correct time. If you are at high % and he's at low %, I suggest spamming with laser a lot.
The key to this matchup is saving your nair, using your bair as often as possible as a spacer, and your f-tilt. The bair is unpunishable by anything other than a gyro or laser, and your f-tilt is nigh unpunishable as well. Your main goal is to stay ON THE GROUND. If you jump and try to fair him and he jumps and fairs you, the winner of that situation is whoever hits the ground first. ROB has a horrible time when his opponent is below him, and ROB can easily get off 20-60% using only his u-air on a ROB that is directly above him.
ROB's recovery is also in jeopardy here. Save your laser when ROB is at higher %! ROB can't air dodge, and thus can't avoid the laser, when he is using his up+b unless he does an attack first. That means you can ALWAYS hit him with a fully charged laser! That might not seem like much, but the moment he does that, you can run off and chase him with YOUR up+b which will have double the fuel he does. Try to get ROB to go below the stage if possible, and remember that he can't punish a back air.
Your best approach in the game, by far, is the glide toss. Glide toss to grab to d-throw = instant win. You do SO much damage iwth that combined with all the u-airs you'll pull off. Just keep ROB above you, that's the game. Just like playing Marth vs. Sheik in Melee. It's all about keeping him above you.
Against Diddy:
As for Diddy... it depends a lot on the playstyle, honestly. Diddy players never seem to play the same. Keep in mind that Diddy dies fast, so spamming gyro/laser is a must (isn't it always?).
Also keep in mind that Diddy needs TWO bananas to really be worthwhile. So if you grab one of his bananas and, say, throw it straight up (you can glide toss and throw it straight up and attack out of the glide too!), he won't have that banana for a long, long time. That's good for you.
There are two times when Diddy is dangerous with a banana. One is when the banana is in front of Diddy and he can dash attack it, the other is when it is in his hand.
When it is in his hand, he is going to throw it. A few tricky Diddy's might drop it and use an aerial to auto-pick it up, but generally they are going to throw it. You can shield this. End of problem. It's not hard to powershield, so do it; then deal with Diddy as if he never had one. Considering Diddy doesn't have aerials that work well agaisnt ROB's spot dodge, a spot dodge to d-smash might work well.
When it is front of him and he is going to dash attack it, visualize exactly where his dash attack will end.
Don't stand there.
This means that Diddy will do his dash attack to pick up his banana, and hten it will be in his hand. Refer to the previous paragraph.
VIII. Team Strategies:
ROB is great at getting gimps in team games because he can take crazy risks because his recovery is so good. Most characters can make a halfhearted attempt at running off with a spike or a quick tap and back to the stage, but ROB can go all out like he does in singles with little to no pressure from the enemy, even if he messes up. That means you have to TAKE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES.
ROB, however, is not without flaws. Gimps are great and all, but you can't always get those. KOs are hard to get with ROB in singles, and it's even harder in teams! You almost have to rely completely on your teammate for good KOs. This is especially true since you can't laser spam or gyro properly because your teammate is in the way.
The fact that you said "roles change" shows that you're ahead of 90% of the players out there, at least mentally. ROB's main goal in team play it to aggressively edgeguard, break up fights that are going poorly by shooting a laser, and to rack up damage. Two u-airs from a ROB can be near 40% damage. 40%. If ROB did a u-throw to two u-air combo (about 50%) to an enemy and then grabbed him and Snake forward smashed that opponent, that opponent would die. That's how good ROB is at doing damage. Use that to your advantage, and know when to switch off! ROB can get gimps on low % opponents, but can't do much but tap high % opponents, so you gotta switch off even if it is hard. I learned this the hard way!
And I think you forgot to mention Nair
