FYI Pits: Learn these AT's!! Please read

Related article: Tools of the Trade for an ADVANCED Pit!

Skip over posts 26-38 (bottom of pg2 to bottom of pg3) its spam

I have been seeing a couple people questioning how valuable an AT is and if it is worth learning and my answer is yes. I am NOT forcing you use them in your game, I am telling you the importance of learning them. Let me explain.

Let me say this in a way we all can relate, school. While in school, you have your interests and what you do well in and what you don't. Lets say you love math and are really good because you took a AP calc test and did really well but you hate History. Substitute any subject that fits you but you most likely have said, "I love Math and want to do something in Math but History is not for me. I don't want to take that class because it isn't what I want to do."

We all have said this and despite our hatred for it, the school forces us to take it for a good reason. It makes you a well rounded person. With this knowledge, you can and will apply it to your life somehow. A professor at my college gave a good by example in one of his speeches,

"You never know when knowledge will help you. You (in the music field) could find yourself invited to a party where you meet someone you have never met (they are in the Science field.) Even though you hated Science, you remembered some information from high school Biology class that you can talk with with them. It may be small news to them, listening to something they already know, but it can make the difference of whether or not they will give you money for your music project you want to accomplish. Even though you both have completely different backgrounds, you found a way to bridge the gap between the two and it is good for networking."

The same goes for these AT's. The boards is the school and the AT's are the classes. We can't force you to learn them and use them, but speaking from experience, they DO help you improve. My style is more hand to hand combat and I don't use arrow looping too much because it doesn't fit my style as much as Wing dashing does. But I tell you, every time that I have used Arrow looping correctly and it has paid dividends in my matches.

I don't see what the harm is for spending a little bit of time learning techniques at a proficient level that has been proven useful in other player's game. Learning these tech does 2 things:
1. Increases your bag of tricks
2. Makes you a well rounded Pit player

1. You never know what situation will you will face in future matches. You may realize, "I think arrow looping will be good here" or, "I think this is a good time to use ART." Because you have done the homework and added these techs to your bag of tricks, you can pull them out at ANY time when needed. Also, certain techs will naturally take precedent over others with certain match ups.
I have recently learned that Wingdashing is not effective against Samus who spams Zair, but arrow looping is. I know from experience that Wingdashing works well against Mario, especially his fireballs. These are two examples and are definitely not the only ones.

2. Because you are learning AT's suited for different styles, this will help you find your style easier and it makes you well rounded. Being well rounded will help allow you to alter your style of play to fit the match up you are in, thus giving you an advantage. Also, it is nice to be able to perform any Pit specific AT at will if your friends ask, "Hey, can you show me the Angelic step? It sounds cool and I want to see it!"

In my opinion, Pit is one of the most unique characters in Brawl. I Believe that Pit truly has style in his game that is unmatched by any other character. I was very impressed looking at some footage of Japan Mario and looked forward to the Japan Pits. Unfortunately I was disappointed. I saw no AT's whatsoever and the result was an unimpressive, slow looking Pit. I am not the only person on the boards to share this same opinion mind you. Pit is flashy, fun to watch and that is the way he should be played.

In conclusion, I am NOT forcing you use them in your game, I am telling you the importance of learning them. I believe that you should learn these AT's first and decided later which ones are going to be more helpful to your game. These AT's are not there to look pretty on the wall but are there for YOUR benefit, personally growth, and well roundedness as a Pit player. Thank you for reading

Sincerely,
kupo

I agree whole heartedly, kupo. Here's my definition of mastering a character: Know all of your options at any given point in the game and know exactly what will happen with each option. Knowledge is power. This is the great key to all games. The only way to do this is to learn exactly what Pit can do, which constitutes learning every little AT.

Pit is simply the most versatile char in the game in my opinion. With all of the AT that he has, it makes him more dangerous in the hands of a skilled player who can master the ATs.

Thank you for your feedback. I was getting worried because it has been all day and no one replied. I wasn't really expecting anyone to but I glad you did. Thanks! ^_^

I wouldnt leave Pit behind... He's an angel after all ^^

i agree....

I believe ATs are cheating. lmao

Idk how serious you are but I don't believe any of Pits AT's are cheating. You have to practice pretty hard to get good at them and we are bending the physics of the game. Even though cheating is not a word in competitive play, the Link's arrow cancel or DDD's chain grab is much more "cheating" than these. ^__^

I like Pit's Arrow Loop. I like to amaze my opponents to show them, "Hey, if this guy can do that, perhaps he's great as playing Pit." (The same is whenever I transform from Samus to Zero Suit Samus.) I've hit my opponents with the Arrow Loop, and they stop attacking each other and come after me.

Proof that Pits like to show off their techs and that Pit is flashy

I would respectfully disagree with your post, Kupo.

Since you bring up some school stuff, I'll bring up some things I've learned through a human resource consulting company: It's a common thing for people to have heard and learned the idea of being a well-rounded person. But the research this company has done (empirically backed up data) is that people are much better performers and more satisfied when they learn to focus on things they do well, and put less energy in things they simply will never be good at. There are specific examples in the books they've printed, and they do work with managers and high level managers and whatnot, but since I am not working for them, I won't sell the idea anymore.

Instead, I'll give you an example of one of the very top most Melee players; Aniki. He is a Link player (then gone Samus. In Brawl he plays Wario), that almost never ever used wave-dashing in Melee. It was somewhat useful for mindgames for Link, and definitely useful for Samus in more applications. Yet he never did because he said he was simply very bad at doing wavedashes. Instead, he played a "low tier" character, won tournaments, and beat the best around the world, including Masashi, Ken, and more.

So as it applies to Pit: Reading about the ATs and understanding that they exist is useful. But putting time into learning how to actually do it would be, in this post's train of thought, not fruitful. A lot of the "useless" advanced techs have been considered so because they are either hard to do, with few high-reward applications, or both. Now back to Aniki example. If he played Pit, he probably would not be doing wingdashing. He would look at Arrow Looping. He would look at possible applications of the ISJR (I personally have not had the time to read/work on this, so I don't know really). But honestly, he'd do the techs he quickly found to be incredibly useful, read his opponents, and then kick their *****.

I guess I should use these techniques more then.^ ^

henrytran i like your perspective on it. but what your saying isnt entirely disagreeing with kupo either.
I think learning the moves is fine. but like u said it doesnt ahve to be used which i also agree with but at least know the moves that your leaving out in your games and make sure that there was no application of it.

Repectfully replying

I like your thought also and I never knew about the study so that blows my comparison away except the quote.

henrytran said:

Now back to Aniki example. If he played Pit, he probably would not be doing wingdashing. .

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I don't think this supports your argument because if he never did wavedashing in melee, than I wouldn't expect him to use Wingdashing, right?

Because this is Brawl, the same situation never pops up like in melee. In melee, you could basically use the same move set and leave certain ones out which is why every good Marth, CF, Fox and Falco look basically the same. In brawl, no match is ever the same the way melee was so I still think that one should learn the AT's for the growth and decided later what fits.

(im not saying every melee match was identical, but the patterns were repeated more frequently and the variety of the matches where more confined because the game restricted you more with only one air dodge and no auto snap ledges and no chars that can up b and still do stuff)

kupo15 said:

I don't think this supports your argument because if he never did wavedashing in melee, than I wouldn't expect him to use Wingdashing, right?

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wavedashing and wingdashing aren't really that similar in application.

My thought on the topic is knowing what your character can do is a must. If the advance techniques can improve your game (maybe not immediately but with practice) you will benefit from using them. If they are more novelty tricks and won't help your game then your not missing out on anything so feel free to ignore them.

Your playstyle will probably dictate how important each one is to learn.

R.E.S.P.E.C.T., find out what it means to me...

Anyway... I have to disagree with you Henry. You should always aim to be the best in everything. If you don't apply everything at your disposal to your game you don't deserve to win. We're all capable of preforming these ATs unless you just can't move fast enough. And if that's the case and you really want to be competitive you'd better do some finger dexterity training. In the end if you're not fast enough to utilize your character to the fullest, you'd better find a new character or just quit expecting to get better.

I'm sorry but it's true. The idea is to strive to become the best. And in the end the best people are going to be the people who can do everything known with their character.

kupo15 said:

Proof that Pits like to show off their techs and that Pit is flashy

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That's right, kupo15! Pit is liek so amazing, and so I have to amaze my opponents! o.o (Unlike that Sonic I came across tonight. It's so ridiculous that I knew what his attacks were going to be before he even performed them.)

Also one thing. Aniki knew how to wavedash, he chose not to use it

kupo i know this is going to sound dumb and it would take u a long time and stuff but i was wondering if you(or anyone else for that matter) could make a guide with all AT known for pit u could get a sticky and update it evrytime u discover a new one i think the format could be
(main name)angelic slide
(other common names used for it) idk im not smart lol
(how to do it on gc controller)press this then this blah
(how to do on wiimote) press blah blah blah
(uses and application) u can do blah and blah whit it
(rating of usefulness)6/10 (10 most useful 0 barely useful)

is this a good idea it just u guys start talking and i was gone for a week or so and i have no idea what u are talking about so it would be cool if i could go in a see all the new at discovered sense the last time i was here. i could prolly find them but they scattered every where and sometimes buried undr posts lol.

UndrDog said:

R.E.S.P.E.C.T., find out what it means to me...

Anyway... I have to disagree with you Henry. You should always aim to be the best in everything. If you don't apply everything at your disposal to your game you don't deserve to win. We're all capable of preforming these ATs unless you just can't move fast enough. And if that's the case and you really want to be competitive you'd better do some finger dexterity training. In the end if you're not fast enough to utilize your character to the fullest, you'd better find a new character or just quit expecting to get better.

I'm sorry but it's true. The idea is to strive to become the best. And in the end the best people are going to be the people who can do everything known with their character.

Click to expand...

Again, the point is that your time and energy is better spent on things you naturally have a talent for and are better at, and things that provide higher returns on your investment in time. By aiming to be best at everything, you end up being mediocre on what you would have been fantastic at, and still weaksauce for what you are naturally weak at. The research and studies behind this stuff is really fascinating, and it applies to professional work, personal lives, and of course gaming. If you are interested, google the idea of "Human Sigma", and/or read some of the work produced by the Gallup Organization (same company that does the polls).

In any case, I didn't say the ATs are too difficult to perform. Hell, try playing Link and mastering his phenomenally technical ATs. But some ATs just provide too little return on your time that it just isn't worthwhile. That time was better spent trying to get your finger timing perfect on curving arrows, spacing, things like the Angelic Step perhaps, learning how to do ISJR, figuring out how which attacks provide what types of knockbacks on specific characters (very high level and in-depth... was more applicable in Melee because it allowed for guaranteed combos instead Brawl's situational combos).

If any of you guys played Counter-strike, it's kind of like this: Why bother learning how to use incredibly crappy SMGs like the p90, UMP, or crappy pistols like the Five-Seven or Duals, when your goal to to play in the competitive leagues like CAL-IM or better? If you really want to get better at the game, skip the crap, and master using the AK, Colt, AWP, USP, Deagle, and Glock.

I completely understand henrytran. Counter argument (respectful as always, this is actually a bit fun ^_^)

I loved watching Aniki being a link main btw and it was not an integral part of my game. I couldn't figure out how to apply it in game as well as lets say ken. I always got punished for it yet I knew how to do it, I learned it. Example

Even though I didn't make it a part of my style or natural gameplay, there has been times I remember thinking on the spot, "I think I can wavedash here" and it worked! One time when I was falling, I decided I throw a bomb before I hit the ground, hit him, wavedashes forward to transition from the air into a Fsmash. It was pretty cool.

But the point is, I learned wavedashing even though it didn't payoff in my game as much as the next guy but when the opportunity presented itself, I was able to utilize wavedashing effectively because I had already learned it. It was in my bag of tricks.

Also, I my OP argument said I think one should get good at the techs at a Proficient level that has been proven useful in other player's games.

kotahlicious said:

kupo i know this is going to sound dumb and it would take u a long time and stuff but i was wondering if you(or anyone else for that matter) could make a guide with all AT known for pit u could get a sticky and update it evrytime u discover a new one i think the format could be
(main name)angelic slide
(other common names used for it) idk im not smart lol
(how to do it on gc controller)press this then this blah
(how to do on wiimote) press blah blah blah
(uses and application) u can do blah and blah whit it
(rating of usefulness)6/10 (10 most useful 0 barely useful)

is this a good idea it just u guys start talking and i was gone for a week or so and i have no idea what u are talking about so it would be cool if i could go in a see all the new at discovered sense the last time i was here. i could prolly find them but they scattered every where and sometimes buried undr posts lol.

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I think that is what the compendium thread is for which is already stickied. It has a list of techs with the credits attached, and a link to the thread.
I suggested to Undr that we should include jif animations next to the tech so one sees the technique before clicking the link to save time.....but he hasn't answered yet. Its like no one saw it actually since I asked everyone I posted that a couple days ago

Could someone reply to the jif animation suggestion in the Pit compendium? Pretty please with a cherry on top to give me something to do?

duh srry bout that lol

All truth is connected in some way. Many of these connections converge on a single point. Enlightenment comes from learning truths which open your mind to more truth.

Think of that in context with this discussion.

I'm guessing you agree with the "learn all the ATs" side.

Indeed I do.

Do you by any chance happen to be a Tibetan monk? Just curious.

whats a tibetan monk?

Um...a monk from Tibet? lol

Admiral Bowser said:

I wouldnt leave Pit behind... He's an angel after all ^^

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Yea, he is partly the reason why you see me here today. I kinda was thinking about quiting on two occasions. I remember getting really upset with the changes in this game and I was really annoyed with the Break the targets. I remember doing it with Mario and got really upset by always having to Up B and that **** landing on your butt thing that makes it twice as long to recover.

The first thing that kept me alive a little longer was the nunchuck configuration. Almost immediately after the switch, I was enjoying it so much more because it was challenging, different, and fun.

Then it was finding my main which got me angry a second time. I started with Link because I mained him in Melee and noticed how terrible he was. Then I tried all of the characters, purposely skipping over Pit because I had a preconceived notion that I would hate Pit and I didn't like him for some reason. The same reason why you just don't like a person when they have done nothing to deserve it.

So, not satisfied with the other characters, I decided to overcome my disgust of Pit and just give him a shot, not expecting anything. Almost immediately, I my enjoyment for Brawl was renewed. I think it was the arrows that got me because you can control them.

Just giving Pit a chance was really hard to do and I'm glad I did. So if it wasn't for the nunchuck and Pit, idk where I would be now with Brawl. I may have quit, who knows. Not only do I want to learn all of these techs to get better, I feel like I owe it to him for saving Brawl. Even though I wish things stayed the same, like working hard to get the ledge, Pit and the nunchuck makes this game tolerable and helps me overlook the great features in Melee that were taken out.

Kupo, you really need to learn to be concise. For example, everything you just said can be summed up by the following sentence:

Pit is Jesus.

It's probably best if you don't post things that can be taken offensively Ryazan.

lol yea Im bad with that. I need to work on getting my point across in fewer words! ^_^

Why is Undr all serious all of a sudden?

Well first what you're making light of are serious matters.

Secondly this forum has become a mess. I know I had a hand in it, but I figured there was enough commonsense in this place to keep things professional. At least to some extent. Every thread has spam up the butt and there's so much nonsense floating around in this forum that it's really hard to actually have a conversation. Plus the blatant ignorance of the rules doesn't help in the least.

If there were a mod frequenting back here their would surely be warnings given out left and right. And if the issue continued there would be temp bans issued.

I know that I will make a silly post every now and again, but the only thread I recall actually derailing was the Clan thread. And in all honesty, unless a Clan thread is serving a purpose at the time, it's a spam thread anyway.

To sum it all up, it's ok to say something fun and silly on occasion, but each thread back here is nothing but an idle conversation that derails the purpose of this forum. If it continues I think I'll make a thread that simply quotes every conversation that was so severely off-topic that it ruined the thread it was held in.

I'm not going to name any names or anything and I'm not interested in any apologies that anyone might think I'm fishing for. I just want it to stop and for us to have decent, intelligent conversations involving Pit. I'm all for the occasional fun chat in Kown's Thread. Kown had a wonderful idea when he created that thread because it held all the chit-chat that would've otherwise cluttered out boards. It serves a great purpose by hosting all the "quick question" questions that don't warrant their own threads. But come on we have to keep that sort of thing in threads such as that.

Let old, off-topic threads die; don't hold private conversations in threads; don't go severely off-topic; and listen when someone requests you do something.

-ignore post-

Poor Dryn posted when I did. You're a guest back here as you're a Samus main. This matter isn't concerning you my friend. ^_^


Anyway...

What learning these techniques allows you to do is be able to pull them out in situations where they're needed on a moment's notice. Reflexively if you will. If you're already good at something you should keep practicing that, but you'll won't get as much under your belt by not adding anything to your game.

UndrDog said:

I know that I will make a silly post every now and again, but the only thread I recall actually derailing was the Clan thread. And in all honesty, unless a Clan thread is serving a purpose at the time, it's a spam thread anyway.


I'm not going to name any names or anything and I'm not interested in any apologies that anyone might think I'm fishing for. I just want it to stop and for us to have decent, intelligent conversations involving Pit. I'm all for the occasional fun chat in Kown's Thread. Kown had a wonderful idea when he created that thread because it held all the chit-chat that would've otherwise cluttered out boards. It serves a great purpose by hosting all the "quick question" questions that don't warrant their own threads. But come on we have to keep that sort of thing in threads such as that.

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hmm your not being the leader you are suppose to be by becoming a broomer (if thats what its called). Im not saying ur not capable im saying that by allowing one instance on your behalf to be spammed aka the clan thread than why cant anyone else do the same? do the rules not apply to you? or are you the only one that decides if a clan has a purpose. again i like you im just saying what prolly goes through everyone elses head. also the spam didnt start till after the clan thread if you noticed.

yes and please keep your quick ideas and questions in Kown's Thread.

Also you've become too seriuos undrdog on the forums. Instead of calling people out on the forums you should send personal messages, it would be way more convenient and you'd become more respectable AND how could anyone say no to a personal message. people have tendencies to disobey authority when called out in public so a pm would be much better.

Again im trying to be helpful and in no way rude. thnxs

First off, my Inbox is constantly being filled by people who join the boards just to PM me. And besides I called no-one in particular out on this. I also made mention that I did indeed post some spam-like posts in the Clan forum, however they were verbally welcomed by the creator of the thread. Not to mention my posts never derailed the conversation or purpose of the Clan forum. In fact they actually caused a couple of things to be reformed, thus doing more good to the thread then most of the other posters in there had. Palutena's Army did and still has a purpose. I was just trying to put myself in the fire with everyone else, but if truth be known, I don't believe I harmed that thread in the least. In fact if you really want to play the chain of consequences game, the clan fell apart after I decided to quit.

As for the spam starting after the clan thread... Does that mean I need to hold everyone's hand? Can't people handle themselves on their own and not be completely influenced by something that I do?

There are rules on this forum and we all let them slide a little back here. I say we all because we all have the responsibility to keep each other accountable for not breaking the rules. It has gotten to the point however that this forum can't even be properly navigated anymore. At this point I would think many of us would have the commonsense to put a stop to it. I suppose I was wrong though.

Anyway this is my last post on the matter. If you want to try and PM me go ahead. You'll have your best chance at around 10pm on most nights after I empty my Inbox, though today I've already cleaned it out.

isnt it ironic how this thread got off topic with a post saying to keep things on topic?

Anyways I think that because every AT offers a situational advantage, they all should be learned. Once someone masters all the situations, he masters the game. In order to do this one must learn every aspect of their character.

Heres one that might provide a good example, my friend who mained mario in melee decided to take one week to master the "wall jump after up b" (self explanatory). At first he didn't have much success, he couldn't apply it either. Eventually he was able to do it consistently and combo people off the stage and get back up using it, or sometimes he actually needed to use it to survive. He saved him self so many times with it.

kk your right.