Need Help With Zamus

Alright, for the most part I enjoy Zamus more than any character in the game. The problems I'm having are mostly two fold.

1. Finishing off opponents.
2. Surviving in the 100%+ damage range.

1. I know that her primary killer moves tend to be her side b, her up air, and her bair. The aerials aren't the thing that I have a problem landing. It's mainly the side+b because of it's deadzone and the fact that if I'm playing someone with half a brain they stay away from the side b's hitbox. I'm also aware of the "dash, tilt up a, up b, down a" but that seems to be a very big "if" type of combo. I've had it land once in a fight and since then smart players won't let me land it again. I was wondering if there's some sort of smash and/or finisher move that can end people maybe in the 130%+ range more reliably and doesn't have such terrible mechanics like a deadzone?

2. Generally I've come to grips with the fact that against characters like Gannondorf, Ike, and other characters who have some sort of smash move that punishes your mistakes, Zamus will tend to launch like a rocket. However I realized that to a certain effect her dair causes her movement to slow down slightly. But other than being a dodge fiend I was wondering if certain moves tend to be better defensively. I know that her side smash tails behind her but other than that and her down smash which sufficed to say isn't that fantastic she doesn't have much defense. For the most part the people I play against tend to have split second reaction time and can see her dsmash and neut b coming.

Anyhell, I'd appreciate any positive feedback.

Draw them into you, force them to whiff an attack. Whip out a stungun shot or a dsmash then hit them with Side B

Thanks, I guess I need to get her stungun down a little better then. Just wish it shot faster <_<;
For the longest time I thought that Zamus was just going to be useless because she flies like a bullet, but then I just sat and tested her moves and I'm still pretty horrid fighting power characters because they need much less to end me.
Oh also, I was having trouble recovering because if I use the whip it seems like my downtime is always really high getting back onto the stage. I've used down b to get onto the ledge but should I just do something like tap back, down b+kick forward?
And any word on if the dair actually slows flight speed?

You can use down B to get on the stage, and if you are close enough and the enemy's invincibilty frames are up from grabbing the ledge you can down b spike them and grab the ledge and hop back on stage, or you could use the specail Down B footstool if they try to spike you, if you save your second jump if you are near the stage, you can jump and use your up B to get a high boost and plop back on stage but be careful if your enemy is below you. try to make some quick space when you land and presue an attack or watch what they are doing.

Yeah since she flies like a bullet it's a draw back, but it's a price to pay for playing with such a unique and fun character.

edit:
Her Down Air has punishable lag, if you are way high up your down air will be slowed down depending how high you were launched.

I would only use if it you have a chance of it actually hitting them, but if your opponent expects you to down air and land, chances are you're going to get punished for the landing lag.

Thx, I actually found that when you get hit pretty hard (off of the stage) you can use her dair to stop moving as fast. When moving quickly it bugs out and doesn't go to the ground it just stops you in midair. I think it's kind of useful to that effect.

SH-plasma whip is a great spacing tool, and the SH allows you to space away from your opponent so they can't get in the deadzone.

Also, ZSS' tether recovery is amazing in terms of speed, because as soon as it latches on you can be up the whip and recovering back onto the stage.

ZS Samus' tehter whip reminds me of a chameleons tongue.
ed: w00t, sig is showing.

Yeah, the problem I'm having is just getting her dodging down now. The gun is a little more useful once I've figured out methods to implement it into play. I still hate people on opposite ends of the spectrum, aka "Characters who can 4-shot Zamus", and "Characters who are quicker than Zamus". Basically, my friend pulled out DK and Sonic, and don't even get me started on the space animals... God help you if you start...

Edit: Also, my approaches so far are dash, dash+uair, dash+fair, and the ever elusive to pull off... dash+tilt up a+up b+down+side smash. I've also tried actually using her down+b kick and have found it useless EXCEPT on platform heavy stages like battlefield. I aim it so I come up from under the platform they're on, and if I aim it right I can get a kick in and never land on their platform.

I've never seen a good player get hit by the d-smash, it's useful for gimping recoveries though. Also, I'm pretty sure we covered that if you read the walls of text. Also, I prefer to avoid utilizing her grabs because of them being so massively punishable and generally the whole randomness of her stun duration against characters of different sizes (don't quote me but I think Bowser, DK, Ganon are stunned for less). Her throws are pretty bad and pretty much her up throw is the only one that deals considerable damage and places your opponent in a bad position.
The primary issue isn't finishing off a character in the air, it's mainly getting them up there. Smart players to my experience have always gone into spot dodge/shield mode on the ground against Zamus only going into the air on rare occasions. Generally good players learn that the space above Zamus is a no-fly zone really quick.

Dsmash is your friend, it will hit them trust me, and USE GRABS WHEN YOU CAN, Down throw is one of the greatest throws. It launches them in the air and you can hit them with a few aerials.

Bouse said:

And any word on if the dair actually slows flight speed?

Click to expand...

I'm pretty positive it doesn't. That's the whole reason you don't go shooting down with it while you're rising. however if you're getting knocked sideways, I think down b stops your momentum if you do it back towards the level. I'm pretty sure that's saved me a few stocks (at least for the time being).

DK should be a pretty easy matchup, mainly because his large body makes him an easy target for you. Just be careful not to get spiked. Also, if you need help against Sonic we just had a huge discussion about it in another thread. And yes, down-smash is a great move, you just need to learn the timing.

I friended Sparrow and DSR, if I could play a few games against you guys it might help. My net's being a bit silly now but generally it's okay.

If you have AIM I'm always game to play against anyone as well, I don't know how my Zamus stacks up against DSR [sincehewonteverplayme>>] but I'm not that bad at the game.

Yeah I'd love to give it a shot. Right now I've pretty much decided to remove Marth from my roster. He just isn't the character I grew to love in Melee, and I can't break my habits of thinking his tip is...
_____________________Here______Instead of HERE
=================> =============>
So, while I'm keeping Pikachu, Ike, and Zamus on my roster I need another "competitive" character so I'm most likely gonna pick up Falco/DK/ or one of the two links for my 4th.
Also, I think I might rework a lot of things with Zamus. I've gotten her blaster down and the only thing I'm sucking balls at is her throws. The ******* I play against I've played against for years so we pretty much anticipate each others timings. Problem is when I anticipate generally I can't kill him. He anticipates properly and if I'm over 70% depending on the character I could very well be dead.
I've also gotten the up+b spiking down. God is it fun ^_^.
Also so far I've found that the only really annoying counterpicks to Zamus are:
Sonic
Wolf
Falco
Meta-Knight
Links
The rest I've found I can avoid decently (Friend is one of those "can play any character" kind of people. Makes you wanna punch a wall some days).

Counter pick stages:
Distant Plant (generally sucks for aerial characters)
New Pork City (Big stage, and unless you can spike them in that sweet spot it takes till 180%+ to kill most)
Hyrule (Big stage, sweet spot, blah)

Best Bet Stages:
Anything with a stage based projectile or attack. Her maneuverability makes her ridiculous at avoiding and pushing people into stage "hazards".

Really I'm not trying to "write a guide", just presenting findings and hunting for a comparison.

Bouse said:

Alright, for the most part I enjoy Zamus more than any character in the game. The problems I'm having are mostly two fold.

1. Finishing off opponents.
2. Surviving in the 100%+ damage range.

1. I know that her primary killer moves tend to be her side b, her up air, and her bair. The aerials aren't the thing that I have a problem landing. It's mainly the side+b because of it's deadzone and the fact that if I'm playing someone with half a brain they stay away from the side b's hitbox. I'm also aware of the "dash, tilt up a, up b, down a" but that seems to be a very big "if" type of combo. I've had it land once in a fight and since then smart players won't let me land it again. I was wondering if there's some sort of smash and/or finisher move that can end people maybe in the 130%+ range more reliably and doesn't have such terrible mechanics like a deadzone?

2. Generally I've come to grips with the fact that against characters like Gannondorf, Ike, and other characters who have some sort of smash move that punishes your mistakes, Zamus will tend to launch like a rocket. However I realized that to a certain effect her dair causes her movement to slow down slightly. But other than being a dodge fiend I was wondering if certain moves tend to be better defensively. I know that her side smash tails behind her but other than that and her down smash which sufficed to say isn't that fantastic she doesn't have much defense. For the most part the people I play against tend to have split second reaction time and can see her dsmash and neut b coming.

Anyhell, I'd appreciate any positive feedback.

Click to expand...

Work on side B and master spacing with it. It is undoubtly the best move she has and its really essential for your gameplay. Like it has been said allready SH + >B for spacing works wonders and will let your opponent think twice about approaching you. And if you are facing a projectile char SH >B will be your friend aswell. This is really the most important to use correctly instead of focusing on escapable combos.

Also Ganondorfs and Ikes smashes shouldnt hit you at all. They come out so slow and can be shieldgrabbed, just dont fall into them. For defenively play i can strongly suggest you to shield -> utilt. Roll as few as possible, use SH >B spacing instead if possible.

Her dsmash is fantastic indeed, it just comes out slow so you better know when to use it. It racks up very good damage and at high % can be chained to a finishing move.

Also work on your DI. Try not to DI downwards too much, you will most likely die if you get below the stage. The only real problem for you to survive should be either getting gimped by chars like meta knight or pit or running upsmashes like fox's for example. With proper DI you should be able to survive fsmash dsmash up to 150, 170ish %.

Also try to mix up your gameplay. Be reactive. Dont be repeative. For example, shuffle through your attacks. If your enemy gets up there are several ways to counter their airdodge. A airdodged uair is often punsihed. Mix up with either Up B -> aerial, usmash, >B or just predict their dair and shield it to utilt and repeat.

For finishing a spaced SH FF bair can work for a suprise but dont use it excessively.

I've actually liked doing a Hyphen Dash (not sure if that's the right terminology) against people who love floating above me. Generally it's gains me a foothold.

Okay, new problem. How do you deal with grab happy people?

Space them, get them into the air, etc.

Yeah I just finished watching some of your guys videos. I think I just need to work on my shield-grabbing and most of it should be not as terrible.

Bouse said:

Yeah I just finished watching some of your guys videos. I think I just need to work on my shield-grabbing and most of it should be not as terrible.

Click to expand...

I never really shield-grab with Zero Suit, I just think her grabs are WAY too punishable if telegraphed.

You just necro'ed a 4 month old thread...