Sheik in a Tournament Environment

Zankoku · Apr 14, 2008

Just so you know, Sheik isn't top tier. She's probably not even high tier. Don't lie to yourself about how amazing you might think Sheik is. You're pretty much going in with a more-or-less average character, meaning you'll have to rely more on your own playskill and matchup knowledge than you might like. With that said, expect to see these characters a lot in a tournament:

Meta Knight (VERY common; hard matchup)
Mr. Game & Watch (may or may not be common; hard matchup)
Snake (VERY hard matchup)
ROB (may or may not be common; watch out for the range)
Toon Link
Pit (always an annoying matchup)
Wolf
Marth
Falco

And maybe some of these:

Dedede (easy, once you learn how to play against him)
Olimar
Lucario
Pikachu
Fox
Ike

Sheik will have serious trouble against Snake, Meta Knight, G&W, and to a degree Lucario. You'll definitely want to know how to play properly against all of these characters. The only one who's particularly easy to beat in these lists is Dedede. If any of you have any knowledge on the matchups against these characters, feel free to share.

MATCHUP STUFF:
Meta Knight

NeoHub said:
Meta Knight is a real tough match up. I hate fighting MKs couse hes real hard to keep off the stage. And with Sheiks not soo great KO Power, it becomes a real problem. F'tilt followed up by something (grabs, airs, more tilts ect. your choice) can really help. I usually go for a N'air or F'air after F'tilts and follow up to try and edge guard him. The thing with Meta is that hes real hard to get clean hits on, soo what I say is easier said then done. Up-B out of Shield works wonders for me. Needles, they seem to rack up pretty good damage early on. F'air to Needles is pretty good in low damage, then just letting a few needles go everyonce in a while to stop Meta in his path. Gives you some time whether they shield or not. They are also pretty good when hes off the stage. Spaced out B'airs are real good, for both edge guarding and just dealing damage. Grab alot. When I get a grab I mainly go for D'throw then depending on how the DI I'll try to follow it up. Usually with a U'air. Jabs are pretty good, the jab combo can rack up damage. Or you can go for jab to D'smash. All three of Sheik's Smashes are pretty good imo.

When fighting him watch out for his Up-B, it is rediculous. Watch out for many of his moves. Spacing plays a big role in this match up.

Ankoku said:
Okay, so playing against Meta Knight for a while, I've found that you can lock him in ftilts for a VERY long time, and typically finish with either a utilt or usmash to instantly bring MK somewhere in the realm of 60-70% damage. Getting that initial hit in will be hard, but well worth it.

Finishing him is kind of difficult. Vanish is, of course, EPIC MINDGAMES LULZ, but you'll have to look at all your available options. Generally, Meta Knight has way more priority than you in the air, so spamming fairs is out of the question, and even bair/uair is kind of risky. Due to his ridiculous recovery, if you must use an aerial, go with uair. Nair is the safest bet to keep yourself protected while in the air, so use that if he's currently on the ground.

For ground finishers, like NeoHub said, all three are usable. Dsmash is the only one fast enough to not get beaten out in speed by MK's dsmash, but it's the weakest one; fsmash is unreliable, but it can punish spotdodges pretty effectively; usmash KOs at the lowest %, especially against a light character like Meta Knight, but it's also by far the most punishable smash if you miss.

Do NOT attempt to edgeguard Meta Knight offstage unless you REALLY have a good setup for it. If he sees an edgeguard coming, he can just Up+B on reaction and possibly end up KOing you in the process. Glide attacks are also tricky to beat, though coming in from above might work in that case. If you can't get any good setups and the MK is keeping himself in a relatively safe path of recovery, try to accumulate a little more damage with your needles.

When not busy chaining ftilts on him or anything, keep yourself moving. Charge needles when safe, use your jabs and tilts (all of them) to protect yourself. If you must approach, do so carefully, because MK can severely punish you from his shield if you screw up. Possibly your best option would be an auto-canceled aerial into jabs to punish shieldgrab attempts.

Drephen said:
metaknight is hella hard to get inside at all

Mr. Game & Watch

Drephen said:
for GW just constantly look for the shield grab cause thats all GW's do is attack your shield

Tristan_win said:
If G&W tries to approach with his nair and tries to auto canal it you can avoid and counter him with a well timed crouch dtilt.

Snake

Drephen said:
snake just KOs shiek at ridiculously low percents and is hard for shiek to kill

JRAFF said:
Snake is indeed a really tough match-up for Sheik! Ugh... I get scared every time I face a Snake online now, just because I've had my *** kicked by so many good Snake players now.

He's really tough to approach because of his explosives, first of all... and when you DO get close to him, he can knock you away really easily even with just normal attacks. Also, his UpSmash makes attacking from the air dangerous.

Basically, there's a long long list of ways in which Snake can effectively kill Sheik, and a very short list of ways Sheik can effectively kill Snake. It's **** frustrating when he kills you at under 100% with a F-Tilt, while you sometimes can't kill him at 150% with a smash attack.

Ankoku said:
Snake is annoying. His mortar slide is a really fast approach that can really hurt if you don't see it coming, and its speed allows crossups too (though those have become less effective in Brawl because you can just unshield now). Snake's attacks in general deal a lot of damage, have a lot of range and priority, and HURT. He's also heavy as hell and has a recovery that goes really long distances, so Sheik's already weak KO potential is further weakened and her bair edgeguard is practically useless.

Fortunately, there are some things you can do. Sheik's far more maneuverable in the air, and needles can interfere with Snake's use of things like grenades. Her ftilt can properly lock a Snake for a while at low-mid %s due to his heavy weight. Sheik also has a decent grab range and can take full advantage of the Cypher-grab gimp. Her fair might be especially effective in forcing a Snake to recover from below the stage...

You may want to consider using Zelda as well, though. Her attacks carry lots of destructive potential, she has a much more potent projectile for playing the far-away game, and Nayru's Love can really mess around with Snake's grenades. (don't think it does anything to mortars) Yeah, if Snake reaches a high %, definitely go Zelda, 'cause chances are you're not going to KO Snake below 180% with Sheik if you missed the chance to gimp.

airius said:
I tested out Naryu's love against the mortars because i knew mario's cape reflected them. Naryu's Love will deflect the mortar back at snake, however the delay after the move can be dangerous so use it only if you find yourself with no other way out

Villi said:
Fun fact about the Nikita Missiles: If you throw a needle at one (coming straight for you), it will rise far enough in the air and Snake will lose control long enough for you to RUN under it.

ROB

Overswarm said:
Transform into Zelda.

But really, it's going to be a long hard road for you. You can rack up damage with your tilts easily, but you're going to have to eventually kill ROB with an f-smash, u-smash, or possibly an up-air.

You can combo ROB out of your d-tilt easily, and since he has a laggy d-air you can juggle with u-air.

It's a hard matchup for Sheik. You have to constnatly keep up the pressure, get those grabs in, then get ROB above you. When he's at higher %, try to kill him with an f-smash or u-smash. That's about all I got.

Toon Link
Pit

Orca said:
To be honest, I find the match up to be pretty well in Sheik's favor. Here's what I suggest:

•Use your Ftilt to combo him (I recommend using it twice, then shield-grab him) then throw him and chase.

•Sheik's aerial power lies in her Nair, Bair, and Fair (her Uair isn't bad either, It's just not as effective as it use to be. It can however, be a good finisher if the opportunity arises). I suggest that after a series of Ftilts, once Pit is suspended a bit in the air from the attack, jump and do a Nair, which comes out nearly right away. You could also do a Fair and chase him doing more Fairs in succession.

•Sheik's Usmash is a good finisher, along with her Dsmash. Sometimes her Fsmash doesn't hit with both kicks, otherwise it's usually effective. All of Sheik's comboing potential comes from her tilts. As I've mentioned Ftilt is amazing, as it is so quick, with no lag, and comes out before most enemies have a chance to respond from the attack. It's also worth noting that her Utilt is very good as well.

•Using your needles is helpful, as some have pointed out. Try charging them if you have a chance, if not, single needles will suffice. Though, against a character like Pit, chances are his arrow will be more annoying than your needles. So forcing him to come to you via needle spam is unlikely as his arrows probably out-prioritize them.

•Keep in mind one of Pit's greatest weaknesses: His ^B can only be used once. The greatest aspect of Sheik in Brawl, is the addition of her chain as a tether. Also, the fact that you can use your chain/vanish independently is a huge plus (one doesn't have to worry that if the chain doesn't reach the edge they are dead, because they can still vanish after using the chain tether). In my opinion, vanish should never be used as a recovery, the chain is just too good. Sheik's edge-guard game is amazing.

After you chase an enemy off the edge attacking them with aerials, you can very quickly tether to the edge. Tethering also allows for a lag-less instant recovery unlike any regular recovery. This means that one can immediately go from tethering the edge to attacking, jumping, or rolling. This is great for Sheik because she's now an incredibly versatile character. I think you also have a few frames of invulnerability due to the fast recovery.

What I do when edge-guarding with Sheik is chase the person off with any aerial attack, notably Fair, then I tether to the platform, and immediately go after them again after having renewed my jump, then I repeat. It makes for a mean edge-guard, one unlike most every other character in the game.

Now why is edge-guarding so stressed here? Simple, due to Pit's inability to execute a second ^B, he is extremely easy to gimp. Just keep on him, as soon as his springs forth his wings, make sure you hit him, at this point his only chance of survival is DIing to the nearest ledge. His chances of DIing anywhere near a ledge will be slim, especially because you have a tether recovery. You can beat him and most other characters to the edge.

Wolf
Marth
Falco
Dedede

Ankoku said:
Sheik runs pretty low to the ground, so you should be able to dash past Waddles at the right range.

Just tilt combo/throw combo him when you're up close.

Tristan_win said:
I've actually never have had any real problems fighting D3

He's easy to get into a tilt lock because how fat and heavy he is

His usual constant waddles throwing leaves him greatly open if you are ever enter it's striking distances (the luck spike one is the only that is deadly and is how must D3 get there kills on me because how it changes it's trajectory to hit you, which is a pain but it isn't too hard to shield)

His range in the air and ground is better then yours but besides his down smash and A-A-A combo he has a pretty sucky ground game which means staying close to him is the best way to go.

Forward suck, and if it hits you it's about as embarrassing as getting hit by a falcon punch.

Up smash is OKAY but nothing special

forward tilt is just a pain but doesn't do enough damage or knock back to even take note of besides it's range and I've never seen a D3 user use his dtilt.

The only good aerials he has is his bair which acts like a sexy kick and dair because of the range and damage it can do but it's easy to dodge.

He can't combo, his defensive game isn't good, and has a easily predictable recover which is easy to gimp.

A pretty easy match for Sheik in comparison to the other higher tier characters.

Olimar
Lucario
Pikachu
Fox
Ike

TrikELotus said:
In my experience, Ike's can be easily manipulated. I'm not saying it's always an easy fight in the least but more than often, I have the upper hand. It's all in mastering the edge-guard. Know that his side-B from a far distance can be intercepted, and make them fall almost straight down (only use in far distances when applicable, will take experimenting)

And in terms of the UP+B, it can be edge-hogged with precise ledge invincibility. I start with a tether, dodge the first part of the Aether with a quick tether-to-edge movement, and then when they come down I use Melee tactics and come up with that short period of invincibility. By habit, I use the distant recovery (L/R) but, I should probably try with the quick up-and-go one. If they see it coming (usually do) they'll land on the ground, and you NEED to take advantage of that opening. If not to kill them via edge-guarding, it'll rack up plenty of damage with proper execution.

Sheik_Pwns · Apr 14, 2008

well good thing im no sheik noob cuz this post is emmensly biased

Zankoku · Apr 14, 2008

Uh huh. Care to tell me why it's biased, and what you're talking about? I'm not about to change my opinion over a one-liner that doesn't say anything except "I don't agree with what you said, so you're biased." At the same time, I really can't argue against it because I have no idea what you're calling me out on.

Cobra · Apr 14, 2008

all I have to offer at the moment is this:

...After losing to a ROB player about 5 times in a row (and admittedly being somewhat whiny about) , I decided to post a 'How to beat ROB with Sheik' question in Overswarm's 'Bestowing ROB knowledge' thread. he was nice enough to give me this response to my post...

My orginal post :

Cobra said:
Hey Overswarm,

First off, thanks for making this thread. it's nice to see that someone's not afraid to help out players from both sides on how to use ROB and how to face him. I was wondering, could you give me some tips on FIGHTING ROB as Sheik. I tend to have a very difficult time with it.

(I'm aware that transforming to Zelda would probably be the best strategy from the start, but I'm a Sheik player at heart.)

Thanks in advance for any advice!

His Reply :

Overswarm said:
Transform into Zelda.

But really, it's going to be a long hard road for you. You can rack up damage with your tilts easily, but you're going to have to eventually kill ROB with an f-smash, u-smash, or possibly an up-air.

You can combo ROB out of your d-tilt easily, and since he has a laggy d-air you can juggle with u-air.

It's a hard match up for Sheik. You have to constantly keep up the pressure, get those grabs in, then get ROB above you. When he's at higher %, try to kill him with an f-smash or u-smash. That's about all I got.

Cobra · Apr 14, 2008

Ankoku said:
Uh huh. Care to tell me why it's biased, and what you're talking about? I'm not about to change my opinion over a one-liner that doesn't say anything except "I don't agree with what you said, so you're biased." At the same time, I really can't argue against it because I have no idea what you're calling me out on.

I'd assume he's calling you biased because he has a n00b friend who plays as Metaknight or Snake who he can routinely destroy. Therefore, since you say they're VERY hard match ups and his l33t skillz outmatch those characters, obviously the list is highly biased since those two characters aren't hard for him to beat. Way to suck Ankoku...you should be ashamed of yourself.

Zankoku · Apr 14, 2008

Way to make me feel bad about myself.

*goes to practice spotdodge->dsmash combos*

But thanks for OS's thoughts on the Sheik/ROB matchup. I've got it up on the first post now.

Cobra · Apr 14, 2008

Ankoku said:
Way to make me feel bad about myself.

*goes to practice spotdodge->dsmash combos*

But thanks for OS's thoughts on the Sheik/ROB matchup. I've got it up on the first post now.

What's funny is that when you said you went to practice spot dodging and DSmashing, instead of taking the natural leap to what you would do in brawl, I imagined you LITERALLY spot-dodging his comment and then DSmashing it away due to it's dumbitude.

(Is it wrong that I routine picture people based on their sigs and avatars moving and attacking like Sheik in my mind? that's normal right?)

Kricu · Apr 14, 2008

Against Pit, there is always the well known fact of using needles to destroy him during his up+b. As for actual strategies, I've got nothing. I'm just curious how Toon Link is a problem. Not saying that he is to be taken lightly but how/why is he deemed "hard".

Zankoku · Apr 14, 2008

I didn't say Toon Link was one of the hard ones, but he'll probably show up at least once in your pool/bracket, and it's significant enough to know how to play against him.

How often can you actually needle-guard a Pit? Usually I see them glide back from way above the stage. Attempting to hit them out of it usually results in getting out-prioritized by a glide attack.

Kricu · Apr 14, 2008

Alright I guess I misread the first post. As for needle-gaurding. It is hard. I didn't say it would be the most useful thing I just know you can do it on occassion.

Tyr_03 · Apr 14, 2008

As much as I agree that certain match ups are more difficult than others and that Sheik is for the most part one of the more difficult characters to use well, I think it's important not to consider her a character that isn't viable against certain characters and to assume that you HAVE to counterpick a different character to win. The reason that so many people get hung up about tiers is because they believe that the high tiers are always going to beat the low tiers which is not in the least bit true. Take for example Simna playing in Melee. Normally, playing Ness up against a good marth would be suicide, but Simna could get past Ness's natural weaknesses and utilize his (albeit more difficult to master) strengths and win. Although I support this thread as a guide used to determine which characters you should be prepared for more difficult matches with, I think it's important to emphasize the fact that just because your character is low tier doesn't mean you're going to get destroyed in tournaments and that you should switch to Wolf or Toon Link or some other such nonsense character.

NeoHub · Apr 15, 2008

I agree, Sheik is gonna have trouble handling some characters. I have a little experience with Meta Knights, if it helps I'm gonna post some of my tactics or what I do.

Meta Knight is a real tough match up. I hate fighting MKs couse hes real hard to keep off the stage. And with Sheiks not soo great KO Power, it becomes a real problem. F'tilt followed up by something (grabs, airs, more tilts ect. your choice) can really help. I usually go for a N'air or F'air after F'tilts and follow up to try and edge guard him. The thing with Meta is that hes real hard to get clean hits on, soo what I say is easier said then done. Up-B out of Shield works wonders for me. Needles, they seem to rack up pretty good damage early on. F'air to Needles is pretty good in low damage, then just letting a few needles go everyonce in a while to stop Meta in his path. Gives you some time whether they shield or not. They are also pretty good when hes off the stage. Spaced out B'airs are real good, for both edge guarding and just dealing damage. Grab alot. When I get a grab I mainly go for D'throw then depending on how the DI I'll try to follow it up. Usually with a U'air. Jabs are pretty good, the jab combo can rack up damage. Or you can go for jab to D'smash. All three of Sheik's Smashes are pretty good imo.

When fighting him watch out for his Up-B, it is rediculous. Watch out for many of his moves. Spacing plays a big role in this match up.

Anyways, thats my experience. I hope it helps.

Cobra · Apr 15, 2008

Tyr_03 said:
I think it's important to emphasize the fact that just because your character is low tier doesn't mean you're going to get destroyed in tournaments and that you should switch to Wolf or Toon Link or some other such nonsense character.

...right....

Soooo, what Ankoku has done here is started a thread to amass a bunch of information to be used against those top tier characters you are going to see more often and others which are likely to be seen as well.

...this way, when we DO face them with Sheik, we'll have more of a fighting chance against their move sets and more apparent strengths and hopefully be able to use what we know about Sheik to get around them or at least give us a better chance at beating them rather then compromising to use a higher tier character.

I only make these points because it doesn't seem like you understand Ankoku's intent here. From the tone of the message, it seems like you're disagreeing with Ankoku as if it was said that

"Sheik is Low tier, don't use her against Wolf or ROB" ...but in fact the thread exists to say :

"Hey, Sheik seems to have a hard time with these characters, let's list some strategies to better fight them individually based off of people's personal experiences."

Zankoku · Apr 15, 2008

Okay, so playing against Meta Knight for a while, I've found that you can lock him in ftilts for a VERY long time, and typically finish with either a utilt or usmash to instantly bring MK somewhere in the realm of 60-70% damage. Getting that initial hit in will be hard, but well worth it.

Finishing him is kind of difficult. Vanish is, of course, EPIC MINDGAMES LULZ, but you'll have to look at all your available options. Generally, Meta Knight has way more priority than you in the air, so spamming fairs is out of the question, and even bair/uair is kind of risky. Due to his ridiculous recovery, if you must use an aerial, go with uair. Nair is the safest bet to keep yourself protected while in the air, so use that if he's currently on the ground.

For ground finishers, like NeoHub said, all three are usable. Dsmash is the only one fast enough to not get beaten out in speed by MK's dsmash, but it's the weakest one; fsmash is unreliable, but it can punish spotdodges pretty effectively; usmash KOs at the lowest %, especially against a light character like Meta Knight, but it's also by far the most punishable smash if you miss.

Do NOT attempt to edgeguard Meta Knight offstage unless you REALLY have a good setup for it. If he sees an edgeguard coming, he can just Up+B on reaction and possibly end up KOing you in the process. Glide attacks are also tricky to beat, though coming in from above might work in that case. If you can't get any good setups and the MK is keeping himself in a relatively safe path of recovery, try to accumulate a little more damage with your needles.

When not busy chaining ftilts on him or anything, keep yourself moving. Charge needles when safe, use your jabs and tilts (all of them) to protect yourself. If you must approach, do so carefully, because MK can severely punish you from his shield if you screw up. Possibly your best option would be an auto-canceled aerial into jabs to punish shieldgrab attempts.

Also, I never once said that Sheik is low-tier, nor do I think that. "Average character" normally implies mid-tier. Sheik has very few strong matchups, where most of them are somewhere around even and pretty much rely entirely on your own ability to play her effectively. You're in for a tough time going Sheik in a tournament, so you may as well know what you're up against and be better prepared for it.

Drephen · Apr 15, 2008

Ankoku said:
*goes to practice spotdodge->dsmash combos*

oh you mean the Drephen combo?

yeah shiek has problems with characters that have lots of range or can KO at low percents

metaknight is hella hard to get inside at all, same with ROB

snake just KOs shiek at ridiculously low percents and is hard for shiek to kill

dont really have any problems with GW , Toon Link, pit, wolf, marth, or falco

for GW just constantly look for the shield grab cause thats all GW's do is attack your shield

everyone else you can gimp so shouldnt have too many problems

Zankoku · Apr 15, 2008

Are you powershieldgrabbing G&W? His smashes make me slide out too far to shieldgrab normally. : /

How are you gimping them, exactly?

Sheik_Pwns · Apr 15, 2008

LOL mybad that was my friend yesterday online what where you talking about again

JRAFF · Apr 15, 2008

Snake is indeed a really tough match-up for Sheik! Ugh... I get scared every time I face a Snake online now, just because I've had my *** kicked by so many good Snake players now.

He's really tough to approach because of his explosives, first of all... and when you DO get close to him, he can knock you away really easily even with just normal attacks. Also, his UpSmash makes attacking from the air dangerous.

Basically, there's a long long list of ways in which Snake can effectively kill Sheik, and a very short list of ways Sheik can effectively kill Snake. It's **** frustrating when he kills you at under 100% with a F-Tilt, while you sometimes can't kill him at 150% with a smash attack.

I've also had a lot of trouble with Ike players just because Ike is ridiculously strong with good range, and his recovery makes one of Sheik's best assets (her edgeguarding skills) much harder to use.

Lord_Naomasa · Apr 15, 2008

My other main is Ike and two things hurt Ike greatly : throwing knifes and grabs. Sheik can charge and when Im fighting a Sheik, I shield a lot. Keep pressure on Ike, use knifes all you can, and shield grab all day. The only real defense Ike has against Sheik is his AAA combo but it hurts. What out for that. Also, fight on the ground as much as possible because Ike's aerials are amazing, have huge hitboxes and have small lag. Dont go charging at an Ike in the air if possible because he can punish unless your prepared to airdodge. On the ground, Ike's attacks have great lag so this must be taken advantage of.

JRAFF · Apr 15, 2008

I do use the needles to disrupt a lot of his attacks... like his side B. And I dodge his attacks the best I can...

BUT the problem is, Ike only needs to hit Sheik like 2, 3 times to kill her

that **** Fsmash... it's usually easy enough to avoid, but once in a while when it catches you, you're done for.

TrikELotus · Apr 15, 2008

In my experience, Ike's can be easily manipulated. I'm not saying it's always an easy fight in the least but more than often, I have the upper hand. It's all in mastering the edge-guard. Know that his side-B from a far distance can be intercepted, and make them fall almost straight down (only use in far distances when applicable, will take experimenting)

And in terms of the UP+B, it can be edge-hogged with precise ledge invincibility. I start with a tether, dodge the first part of the Aether with a quick tether-to-edge movement, and then when they come down I use Melee tactics and come up with that short period of invincibility. By habit, I use the distant recovery (L/R) but, I should probably try with the quick up-and-go one. If they see it coming (usually do) they'll land on the ground, and you NEED to take advantage of that opening. If not to kill them via edge-guarding, it'll rack up plenty of damage with proper execution.

Not quite sure if this was completely obvious to people or not, because I rarely ever see Sheiks in Brawl, let alone Sheik vs Ike. Just going off the experience I have vs the many Ikes I've fought.

S2 · Apr 20, 2008

I like to look at Sheik's tier placement as the glass half full, that is, she is "higher tier" than Melee.

Let me explain, by "higher tier" I mean that by the end of Melee all I fought were Foxes doing their lousy d-air/shine/wd/upthrow/upair combo. So really to a Sheik player there was you and cheap-*** fox. Making you bottom tier.

Yeah, I'm exaggerating and venting, but oh well. I hated that matchup in Melee.

If anything, it bothers me that Sheik's killing moves are different in Brawl (where's my f-air kills?). Unfortunate, they ovenerfed Sheik.

ADHD · Apr 21, 2008

Samus will be another difficult one too. The zapper will just keep sheik at bay.

imdavid · Apr 25, 2008

Maybe its due to my lack of playing good Snake players, but when I go against a snake who likes to prime his nades, needles effectively stop the nade and sometimes even cause it to back fire on him. I then just camp using needles and forcing the snake to come to me... (i should play more snakes to give a better post though XD)

Zankoku · May 13, 2008

I'm going to bump this with some input on Snake, I guess.

Snake is annoying. His mortar slide is a really fast approach that can really hurt if you don't see it coming, and its speed allows crossups too (though those have become less effective in Brawl because you can just unshield now). Snake's attacks in general deal a lot of damage, have a lot of range and priority, and HURT. He's also heavy as hell and has a recovery that goes really long distances, so Sheik's already weak KO potential is further weakened and her bair edgeguard is practically useless.

Fortunately, there are some things you can do. Sheik's far more maneuverable in the air, and needles can interfere with Snake's use of things like grenades. Her ftilt can properly lock a Snake for a while at low-mid %s due to his heavy weight. Sheik also has a decent grab range and can take full advantage of the Cypher-grab gimp. Her fair might be especially effective in forcing a Snake to recover from below the stage...

You may want to consider using Zelda as well, though. Her attacks carry lots of destructive potential, she has a much more potent projectile for playing the far-away game, and Nayru's Love can really mess around with Snake's grenades. (don't think it does anything to mortars) Yeah, if Snake reaches a high %, definitely go Zelda, 'cause chances are you're not going to KO Snake below 180% with Sheik if you missed the chance to gimp.

airius · May 14, 2008

I tested out Naryu's love against the mortars because i knew mario's cape reflected them. Naryu's Love will deflect the mortar back at snake, however the delay after the move can be dangerous so use it only if you find yourself with no other way out

Villi · May 14, 2008

Fun fact about the Nikita Missiles: If you throw a needle at one (coming straight for you), it will rise far enough in the air and Snake will lose control long enough for you to RUN under it.

Tristan_win · May 14, 2008

Fun fact about G&W

If G&W tries to approach with his nair and tries to auto canal it you can avoid and counter him with a well timed crouch dtilt.

Fun fact about fast fallers

After playing around a bit against people who use fast fallers mainly the spaces I've notice you can get them into a sort of dtilt lock if you continuously hit them with the foot part of the attack, in the early percentages mix with diminish attacks you can get them to the good thirties or fifties before they can escape.

More testing is needed though before I can give a real percentage for when the correct way to escape works.

ADHD · May 14, 2008

JRAFF said:
Snake is indeed a really tough match-up for Sheik! Ugh... I get scared every time I face a Snake online now, just because I've had my *** kicked by so many good Snake players now.

He's really tough to approach because of his explosives, first of all... and when you DO get close to him, he can knock you away really easily even with just normal attacks. Also, his UpSmash makes attacking from the air dangerous.

Basically, there's a long long list of ways in which Snake can effectively kill Sheik, and a very short list of ways Sheik can effectively kill Snake. It's **** frustrating when he kills you at under 100% with a F-Tilt, while you sometimes can't kill him at 150% with a smash attack.

I've also had a lot of trouble with Ike players just because Ike is ridiculously strong with good range, and his recovery makes one of Sheik's best assets (her edgeguarding skills) much harder to use.

Wow seriously? I have a needle field day with these two! Just freakin irritate snake with single needles so he can't camp, and play around with downsmash. WHATEVER YOU DO DO NOT LET HIM GET YOU IN THE AIR!

Zankoku · May 15, 2008

Thanks for everyone's input, guys. I've updated the front page with your matchup analyses.

Ch0zen0ne · May 15, 2008

Shiek's Chain should make counterpicking NorFair Banned >_>

No Johns.

Exia 00 · May 25, 2008

Sheik_Pwns said:
well good thing im no sheik noob cuz this post is emmensly biased

if the thread is biased then i would say
sheik has no hard match ups and that
sheik has an easy time against metaknight.

ADHD · May 25, 2008

Exia 00 said:
if the thread is biased then i would say
sheik has no hard match ups and that
sheik has an easy time against metaknight.

metaknight isn't impossible though, just very stressful

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