Ike's SA Frames (JAB thoroughly tested)>>No SAFs for Jab

I did this for Ike, because i main ike... aaaaaand i was bored. I might do some other SA frame tests for other characters, such at DK's punch.
I think these are the only SA frame attacks that Ike has, if not, ill have to test the others, so tell me if there's more or any innaccuracies.

Anyway, here it is:



I was testing super armor frames for ike's Eruption and Aether, and in doing so, also figured out startup lag and the hit frame.

In order to test this, i figured out what the initial frame was for the
attack and then repeatedly warmed up to press the start button at the
exact same time, while looking at the clock in VS mode. I repeated
this process hundreds of times and before coming to a conclusion, i
re-tested the crucial frame at least 100 times. It took a few hours to
test these few moves. I managed to getting clutch PAUSING times down
to 1/50th of a second consistently, using 2 controllers.

The attacker i used was falco, and using him, i figured out his initial jab frame.
Falco's first jab hits on frame 2 and 3 from the initial start up.


Ike's Neutral B attack (Eruption // UNCHARGED [tapped])
---
Eruption, from the initial start up frame to the initial hit frame, takes 0.5 sec or 30 frames.
Lag time is through frames 1-29 of the attack, and the first hit frame is on frame 30.

Super Armor starts at 0.36sec after hitting the B button or 21 Frames into the animation.
There are no Super Armor frames after the initial hit frame of Eruption (Ends at frame 30).
30% of Eruption's animation consists of Super Armor frames


Ike's Up-B attack (Aether)
---
On level ground, Aether, from the initial start up frame to the initial landing frame, takes 1.2 sec or 72 frames.
I haven't tested lag time on the initial hit frame when an opponent is standing on top of you.

One thing i want to point out, is that i am still unsure of the ending super armor frame. IMO, its pretty difficult to test
the ending super armor frame of aether by yourself, and keep an eye on the timer at the same time. But to test it,
i used Battlefield with Falco at the top platform to intercept the apex of Ike's Aether attack. Although unsure,
i feel I got pretty close to the real thing.

Super Armor starts at 0.3sec after hitting the Up-B button or 18 frames into the animation.
Super Armor ends at 0.8sec(?) or 48 frames(?) into the animation.
41.66...%(?) of Aether consists of Super Armor Frames.


Ike's D-Tilt and Jab
---
People keep telling me there are super armor frames on these moves. I tried testing these, but the thing is, I kept getting no response for any instance of super armor frames. I'll start with D-TILT:

D-TILT. I tested almost every frame from the intitial start-up to the initial hit frame of the attack. I couldn't find any instance of Super Armor Frames. All of a sudden i find something at the end of the swing. Ike took damage, and he still hit me (using falco) and knocked me far back. So i built off of this.

HERE IS WHY PEOPLE THINK THERE ARE SA FRAMES FOR D-TILT.
Ike's D-tilt hitting people while he still takes damage at the same time, is because of how close you are to your opponent when performing the d-tilt. To prove this theory, i tested at different ranges.

Trial 1: Ike facing away from Falco
Ike facing one direction, Falco behind facing the same direction. I initiate the D-tilt, and pause the game 2 frames before the attack lands. Falco's jab, which takes 2 frames to hit, is initiate right after the pause, causing Ike to take damage, and cancelling the D-tilt. This was also tested 1 frame before the initial hit frame of D-tilt.

Trial 2: Facing each other with distance in between.
Each character facing each other, with some space in between. I initiate the D-tilt, and pause the game 2 frames before the attack lands. Falco's jab, which takes 2 frames to hit, is initiated right after the pause, causing a clash in attacks, both being negated (like when two swords hit). This was also tested 1 frame before the initial hit frame of D-tilt, causing Ike to take damage and cancelling the D-tilt.

Trial 3: Point Blank
Each character facing each other, right next to each other. I initiate the D-tilt, and pause the game 2 frames before the attack lands. Falco's jab, which takes 2 frames to hit, is initiated right after the pause, causing Ike to take damage, and falco to be hit by the D-tilt. This was also tested 1 frame before the initial hit frame of D-tilt, causing Ike to take damage and cancelling the D-tilt.

Trial 4: The conclusion, using MARTH instead of Falco. POINT BLANK (Trial 3 repeated).
I used marth, because i needed a fast forward smash to test. Since jabs don't really push ike around. So im using a F-smash for this one. Each character facing each other, right next to each other. I initiate the D-tilt, and pause the game (took a few tries) enough frames to cause the F-smash and D-tilt to hit at the same time. F-Smash hits ike, causing damage and knockback, but the D-tilt also lands and knocks Marth away. This was also tested 1 frame before the initial hit frame of D-tilt, causing Ike to take damage and cancelling the D-tilt. This is my conclusion for proving that D-tilt has no Super Armor Frames. The range you are at, being really close together, Ike's D-tilt hits below, while the other attack hits above, causing no clash in the weapon, but also hitting at the same time.


As for Ike's jab, not sure where to go with this one. I couldn't find any instance of SA Frames, but i could be looking at the wrong place. EDIT: i looked around for people saying where, and quite frankly, im also starting to doubt the AAA SAFs, i did find one instance though where the two attacks clashed. I'll test it later.

As a bonus for testing out the jab, i found that the first jab hits on frame 3 after pressing the button.
-----------------
More thorough look on jab

I really don't feel like typing this out, since its pretty much a repeat of my d-tilt theory.
But same rules apply. Test it out for yourself.

BONUS .... first jab hits on frame 3 after pressing A.

The question I have for this is, in the middle of battle, is it possible to count frames for them to take perfect effect?

Jesus Christ, man! I'd have killed myself long before finishing this! I admire your dedication though. lol

On the...uh, bright side, we now have exact numbers?

A+ for the sheer effort.

wow...uhhh...just....wow....

anyways..good work...here's a gold star


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...
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sorry bout that watermark...it went through the wash :/

(on a serious note)
seriously what compelled you to do this...just boredom?
I mean I'm glad we have the actual numbers..but did we need them?

just boredom... >.>

i was like... "well, my plans got canceled today... this sucks...."
"hmm... what to do...."

to answer wolt's question... no not really, lol. Unless you are some sort of cyborg.

btw the aether attack, even if way off on the ending SA frame, wouldn't be anywhere near that percentage that SA frames of the attack (41.666...%), because that's not including the lag time after the initial landing frame of the attack (aka the final hit frame). That number is just from the start to the land on level ground.

i might do some tests later on a charged eruption and see how long that takes to land.

did i miss any of his SA attacks or are those the only two?

I fairly sure those are his only ones..

NoVaLombardia said:

I did this for Ike, because i main ike... aaaaaand i was bored. I might do some other SA frame tests for other characters, such at DK's punch.
I think these are the only SA frame attacks that Ike has, if not, ill have to test the others, so tell me if there's more or any innaccuracies.

Anyway, here it is:



I was testing super armor frames for ike's Eruption and Aether, and in doing so, also figured out startup lag and the hit frame.

In order to test this, i figured out what the initial frame was for the
attack and then repeatedly warmed up to press the start button at the
exact same time, while looking at the clock in VS mode. I repeated
this process hundreds of times and before coming to a conclusion, i
re-tested the crucial frame at least 100 times. It took a few hours to
test these few moves. I managed to getting clutch PAUSING times down
to 1/50th of a second consistently, using 2 controllers.

The attacker i used was falco, and using him, i figured out his initial jab frame.
Falco's first jab hits on frame 2 and 3 from the initial start up.


Ike's Neutral B attack (Eruption // UNCHARGED [tapped])
---
Eruption, from the initial start up frame to the initial hit frame, takes 0.5 sec or 30 frames.
Lag time is through frames 1-29 of the attack, and the first hit frame is on frame 30.

Super Armor starts at 0.36sec after hitting the B button or 21 Frames into the animation.
There are no Super Armor frames after the initial hit frame of Eruption (Ends at frame 30).
30% of Eruption's animation consists of Super Armor frames

Ike's Up-B attack (Aether)
---
On level ground, Aether, from the initial start up frame to the initial landing frame, takes 1.2 sec or 72 frames.
I haven't tested lag time on the initial hit frame when an opponent is standing on top of you.

One thing i want to point out, is that i am still unsure of the ending super armor frame. IMO, its pretty difficult to test
the ending super armor frame of aether by yourself, and keep an eye on the timer at the same time. But to test it,
i used Battlefield with Falco at the top platform to intercept the apex of Ike's Aether attack. Although unsure,
i feel I got pretty close to the real thing.

Super Armor starts at 0.3sec after hitting the Up-B button or 18 frames into the animation.
Super Armor ends at 0.8sec(?) or 48 frames(?) into the animation.
41.66...%(?) of Aether consists of Super Armor Frames.

Click to expand...

Could you find out the SA frame start up of his jab combo and Dtilt as well?

had no idea those had SA frames :O, ill get around to those next then

EDIT: progress updated with jab and D-tilt

NoVa, thank you for doing this. I'd been watching videos trying to figure out where the SA frames were, but your findings should help me out a lot more and let me use these moves in a more defensive and/or 'trade-hits' method. Very nice!

Thanks for testing the Dtilt cuz people kept saying that Dtilt had SA and my friend FireWulf uses it all the time and he says he could never find them. You helped prove him correct that Dtilt didn't have any.

Thanks for giving up so much of your time to help everyone else.

If you just wanted to test out IF the move had SAFs, then do you think that going to Training Mode, setting it to 1/4th speed, and giving the character you're hitting Ike with a Star so that you can just stand next to Ike and jab whenever and wherever you want is a good way to test? I've been wanting to do these tests myself and I'm trying to find a good way to get data .

you need a timer for it, imo would be the best way.

also, comparing melee's 1/4 speed which actually looks choppy, it seems like brawl was made in greater than 60 fps to compensate for slow-mo modes, but since our eye can't perceive over 60 fps, you still measure by 60 fps instead of less or more.

also time doesn't slow down in slow-mo mode either, so you'd have to multiply everything you do by 2, which can be confusing sometimes. But that would be a good way to do it.

sorry for double post. But bump for more updates.

i thought our eyes perceived in ~20 "f"ps

ama(m/t) said:

i thought our eyes perceived in ~20 "f"ps

Click to expand...

It's 72 fps.

Wow, very nice work. I'm impressed.

Bump. People still seem to be sticking to the argument that "AAA COMBO HAS SA FRAMES OMFG." Good work. This info needs more attention though to disillusion the folks who are convinced otherwise.