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EXACT Running Speed List made by M2K; more to come soon

Mew2King

Mew2King

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Running Speed List - this is what frame you die on on Bridge of Elden, from your starting position to running to the far end of the screen. I got lucky, and coincidentally, Sonic dies on frame 100, making it very easy to see the difference compared to other characters. It's not very difficult to test, all you have to do is put it to a 1 stock match and put a time limit on, then pause the game before you dash, note the last two digits, write it down and then hold right or left on the control stick so you dash in one direction for when you unpause. Have player 2 jump over you or move out of the way so you don't get slowed down any, and then whatever frame (or time rather) you die off the side you write down, then it's a simple matter of seeing what frame that is. I know how to convert to frames, as do people who play Target Test, so it's not very difficult for me, or anyone who knows what they are doing for that matter, it's just extremely time consuming. An interesting note I found out is that in Tiny Melee, Toon Link runs slower than normal (between Mario and Samus in speed), but on Giant Melee it seems like the same, and I haven't noticed anything special about other characters on different modes. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I tested each individual character many times to make sure they were all 100% accurate, so you can trust this list.

100 Sonic
+46..............................................
146 C.Falcon
+7.......
153 Fox
+11...........
164 Zero Suit Samus
+1.
165 Sheik
+6......
171 Metaknight
+5.....
176 Charizard
+2..
178 Pikachu
+6......
184 Diddy Kong
+2..
186 Marth
+2..
188 Yoshi
+3...
191 Toon Link
+4....
195 DK
+6......
201 Pit
+2..
203 Mr.Game&Watch
+4....
207 Bowser
+3...
210 Ivysaur/Lucas/Mario/ROB
+7.......
217 Samus
+2..
219 Falco
+3...
222 Lucario
+3...
225 Olimar/Wolf
+1.
226 Ness
+1.
227 Ice Climbers
+3...
230 Ike/Kirby/Squirtle
+3...
233 Peach/Snake/Wario
+2..
235 Luigi
+1.
236 Link
+21.....................
257 DeDeDe/Zelda
+14..............
271 Ganondorf
+14..............
285 Jigglypuff

I also made a walking speed list, but I don't feel like typing it up right now, I'll do it later sorry.
 
Yuna

Yuna

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Zelda tied for 3rd-4th slowest and Peach tied for 7-9th slowest? That can't be right... or maybe it's just that it feels like certain characters run slower than they actually do.
 
V

VagrantGhost

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Messages
7
I understand what the first number to the left of the character name is, but what is the number directly below the character?

PS - thanks for taking the time to do this!
 
Mew2King

Mew2King

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zelda is tied for 3rd/4th slowest not 2/3rd, if you don't trust my list do the test yourself, mine is right


edit - the number below is just a gap for how much characters vary, in case you are too lazy to look at the numbers yourself, it shows how much of a difference there is between characters. It's not necessary, I just thought I'd throw it in there to make it easier
 
himynameisruss

himynameisruss

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pirkid said:
Didn't we have a video for this already?

EDIT:


The way you tested this doesn't seem very reliable to me, M2K, kinda iffy.
Then again, I haven't tested anything like that myself, so I'm not one to judge.
Click to expand...
do you read anything before you type?
 
H

hippochinfat!!

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
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Toronto
Wow awesome man! By exact frames? CRAZY.

You're really good at things like this so it's awesome you made this thread since you've been making alot of retarted ones.
 
P

pirkid

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
1,254
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¿¡ Canada ¿¡
Mew2King said:
Running Speed List - this is what frame you die on on Bridge of Elden, from your starting position to running to the far end of the screen. I got lucky, and coincidentally, Sonic dies on frame 100, making it very easy to see the difference compared to other characters. It's not very difficult to test, all you have to do is put it to a 1 stock match and put a time limit on, then pause the game before you dash, note the last two digits, write it down and then hold right or left on the control stick so you dash in one direction for when you unpause. Have player 2 jump over you or move out of the way so you don't get slowed down any, and then whatever frame (or time rather) you die off the side you write down, then it's a simple matter of seeing what frame that is. I know how to convert to frames, as do people who play Target Test, so it's not very difficult for me, or anyone who knows what they are doing for that matter, it's just extremely time consuming. An interesting note I found out is that in Tiny Melee, Toon Link runs slower than normal (between Mario and Samus in speed), but on Giant Melee it seems like the same, and I haven't noticed anything special about other characters on different modes. Just thought I'd throw that out there. I tested each individual character many times to make sure they were all 100% accurate, so you can trust this list.

100 Sonic
+46..............................................
146 C.Falcon
+7.......
153 Fox
+11...........
164 Zero Suit Samus
+1.
165 Sheik
+6......
171 Metaknight
+5.....
176 Charizard
+2..
178 Pikachu
+6......
184 Diddy Kong
+2..
186 Marth
+2..
188 Yoshi
+3...
191 Toon Link
+4....
195 DK
+6......
201 Pit
+2..
203 Mr.Game&Watch
+4....
207 Bowser
+3...
210 Ivysaur/Lucas/Mario/ROB
+7.......
217 Samus
+2..
219 Falco
+3...
222 Lucario
+3...
225 Olimar/Wolf
+1.
226 Ness
+1.
227 Ice Climbers
+3...
230 Ike/Kirby/Squirtle
+3...
233 Peach/Snake/Wario
+2..
235 Luigi
+1.
236 Link
+21.....................
257 DeDeDe/Zelda
+14..............
271 Ganondorf
+14..............
285 Jigglypuff

I also made a walking speed list, but I don't feel like typing it up right now, I'll do it later sorry.
Click to expand...
Jigglypuff: 5.50
Ganondorf: 5.20
King DeDeDe: 4.93/Zelda: 4.93
Wario: 4.50/Peach: 4.50/Snake: 4.50/Luigi: 4.50/Link: 4.50
Ike: 4.43/Squirtle: 4:43/Kirby: 4.43
Olimin & Pikmin: 4.33/Ness: 4.33/Wolf: 4.33/Ice Climbers: 4.33
Lucario: 4.23/Falco: 4.23
Samus: 4.16
Lucas: 4.00/R.O.B: 4.00/Bowser: 4.00/Mario: 4.00/Ivysaur: 4.00
Mr. G&W: 3.93
Pit: 3.84
Toon Link: 3.73/Donkey Kong: 3.73
Yoshi: 3.63
Diddy Kony: 3.56/Marth: 3.56
Charizard: 3.43/Pikachu:3.43
Meta-Knight: 3.30
ZSS: 3.17/Shiek: 3.17
Fox: 2.90
C. Falcon: 2.77
Sonic: 1.90

Not much different, is it.
 
V

VagrantGhost

Smash Rookie
Joined
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Messages
7
Mew2King said:
zelda is tied for 3rd/4th slowest not 2/3rd, if you don't trust my list do the test yourself, mine is right


edit - the number below is just a gap for how much characters vary, in case you are too lazy to look at the numbers yourself, it shows how much of a difference there is between characters. It's not necessary, I just thought I'd throw it in there to make it easier
Click to expand...
Ah, nice.

Quite a huge gap between sonic and the others, though I suppose that's to be expected given the character's history.
 
Gindler

Gindler

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Wooo, let's go Yoshi! 11th place!

ha, that's not as good as it should be, he's a raptor for pete's sake.
 
Mew2King

Mew2King

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Let's look at what's wrong with that list

1) Wario/Peach/Snake are not the same speed as Luigi (Luigi's slower)
2) Wario/Peach/Snake are not the same speed as Link (Link's even more slow)
3) Charizard isn't the same speed as Pikachu (Charizard is faster)
4) Marth is not the same speed as Diddy Kong (Diddy Kong is faster)
5) DK is not the same speed as Toon Link (Toon Link is faster)
6) Ivysaur/Lucas/Mario/ROB are not the same speed as Bowser (Bowser is faster)
7) Lucario is not the same speed as Falco (Falco is faster)
8) Olimar/Wolf are not the same speed as Ness (Ness is slower)
9) Olimar/Wolf are not the same speed as Ice Climbers (Ice Climbers are even slower)

I just found 9 mistakes

and I did mine from scratch, with better base values to compare to
 
Magus420

Magus420

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Wouldn't a character's dash speed not make it entirely 100% accurate for comparing just the run speed? Also couldn't the character's "center" lean forward during a run causing them to hit the blastline sooner than they should? For example Marth/Sheik lean very far forward when running though they are actually considered "standing" back where their feet are.

I would think going by when they leave the ground over an edge would be a more accurate representation of the distance actually travelled over a period of time.
 
Yuna

Yuna

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pirkid said:
Jigglypuff: 5.50
Ganondorf: 5.20
King DeDeDe: 4.93/Zelda: 4.93
Wario: 4.50/Peach: 4.50/Snake: 4.50/Luigi: 4.50/Link: 4.50
Ike: 4.43/Squirtle: 4:43/Kirby: 4.43
Olimin & Pikmin: 4.33/Ness: 4.33/Wolf: 4.33/Ice Climbers: 4.33
Lucario: 4.23/Falco: 4.23
Samus: 4.16
Lucas: 4.00/R.O.B: 4.00/Bowser: 4.00/Mario: 4.00/Ivysaur: 4.00
Mr. G&W: 3.93
Pit: 3.84
Toon Link: 3.73/Donkey Kong: 3.73
Yoshi: 3.63
Diddy Kony: 3.56/Marth: 3.56
Charizard: 3.43/Pikachu:3.43
Meta-Knight: 3.30
ZSS: 3.17/Shiek: 3.17
Fox: 2.90
C. Falcon: 2.77
Sonic: 1.90

Not much different, is it.
Click to expand...
Much different, I'd say.

Sonic: 1.90 = Wrong. 100 frames = 1.67
Jigglypuff = 5.50 = Wrong. 285 frames = 4.75

(Just to measure the extremes)

Also, as M2K has pointed out, the original list is also wrong on who's faster in several spots.
 
Mew2King

Mew2King

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I have considered that Magus, but when I did my Fast-Fall falling speed list, and I originally used Onett to test, but then I found some characters who don't fall as fast as others, land sooner, because their feet hit the ground sooner

then I did some tests on the top parts of hyrule as they both fell next to each other, looking VERY closely to see who's moving faster, and retesting it many times.

then I did some frame tests using the blast zone at the bottom of the stage

after finishing the tests, I came to the conclusion that blast zones give way more accurate results than the ground did. This is because their actual falling speed was proportional to when they died in the blast zone, but landing early can be dependent of the clumsy way that some characters fall.

More likely than not, side blast zones are the same way.









edit - Yuna the other list used a different stage than Bridge of Elden, he used the custom stage, while as I was trying to give either Sonic or some common character a base of 100, and I got lucky right away, so I finished my tests on Bridge of Elden. But my rankings order, and precision with accuracy is better.
 
Magus420

Magus420

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Mew2King said:
I have considered that Magus, but when I did my Fast-Fall falling speed list, and I originally used Onett to test, but then I found some characters who don't fall as fast as others, land sooner, because their feet hit the ground sooner

then I did some tests on the top parts of hyrule as they both fell next to each other, looking VERY closely to see who's moving faster, and retesting it many times.

then I did some frame tests using the blast zone at the bottom of the stage

after finishing the tests, I came to the conclusion that blast zones give way more accurate results than the ground did. This is because their actual falling speed was proportional to when they died in the blast zone, but landing early can be dependent of the clumsy way that some characters fall.

More likely than not, side blast zones are the same way.
Click to expand...
Those are two completely different things though, Jason. Bottom blast zones being more accurate than landing for fall speeds doesn't say anything at all about how using blast zones compares to using standing positions for run speeds.

Rolling to an edge, then running off the opposite end's edge: Compares fixed point starting stand location to fixed point ending stand location.

Spawning then running off the side blast zone: Compares semi-fixed starting stand location to ending blast zone trigger location.


See what I mean?
 
2

2.72

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You know, M2K, the differences might not be due to inaccuracy on either list's part. For one thing, the other list depended on when the character fell off of the stage, while yours depends on when they crossed the KO boundary. They may fall off in the middle of the hitbox, but get KO'd at the start of the hitbox, or they may have different statistics involving their start-up running animation. You shouldn't criticize the other list because of slight differences when you are measuring slightly different things.

EDIT: ninja'd
 
Magus420

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Okay. I doubt it'd make much of a difference at all really, just that I think it'd be better to compare feet to feet than feet to head/chest/whatever happens to trigger the blastzone first.
 
Z

Zaza

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What about the issue of start up frames? You accurately measure the time it takes to get from point A to point B from a stop but that's not the same a running speed.

A way to to remove the effect of start up time can be to do the test again on another flat stage and subtract the # of frames measured from each other. I believe this will also remove effects of differing hitboxes but I'm not sure. I'd have to think about it a bit more and I'm in a hurry to go to class right now.

You've got great data. I think the issue is just how you described what your data represents. Unless start up time is zero. In that case ignore me and well done
 
yoshi_fan

yoshi_fan

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Excellent, very accurate.

WTF, Is yoshi slower than marth? That's nonsense *sigh*
 
FalseFalco

FalseFalco

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Are you going to do an extensive stat list like you did for Melee Mew2king?

You don't have to make promises, I'm just curious if you're considering it.
 
H

House M.D.

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one problem. brawl runs at 60 frames per second, so if a meter displays time to the hundredths place, it will not display all 100 possibilities. i'm guessing that if you re do the test you may get slightly different answers. of course, once we have access to frame data this will be moot.

caveat: i'm not sure if this is true but it seems like me. please correct me if i'm wrong.
 
Dark Sonic

Dark Sonic

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^^You can calculate frames based off the times.

I don't personally know how to do it, and I wouldn't mind someone explaining it though.
 
V

Viscano

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WTF!!! Charizard is faster than Pikachu? That's ****ing bull****!
 
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