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Yoshi: DJC with Air Dodge? (awesome demo vid)

Chepe

Chepe

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I posted this in some other threads, but I think it deserves its own thread (and since other Yoshi threads are lonely, board visitors will see this immediately). If you think otherwise mods, my bad and go ahead and lock it...

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/131782.html

This is a great demo video that has many rare things that I will list as the end of the post. For now, let me elaborate on what caught my eye as I was watching my main fight. At one point early in the video, Yoshi rolls around Pit, sidestep dodges, then grabs him and does his down throw (not hard to catch if you follow him). Immediately after, Sonic hits Yoshi who techs the hit.

Now comes the big part, right in between 0:44 and 0:45. Yoshi turns around, jumps into the air, double jumps and air dodges at the same time, which sends him downward to the ground. As in, he Double Jump Canceled with his air dodge! While it may sound useless compared to Melee's attacking DJC, air dodging into the ground at will has potential...

It might just be that Yoshi has an exclusive advanced technique in Brawl! In the vid, he does this DJC air dodge diagonally, and I think he slides a bit in the ground too. He was pretty high in the air, but Im sure it can be done closer to the ground to make it quicker and more efficient. Imagine the potential Yoshi might enjoy if this remains in the final version of the game? Post your thoughts and discuss!

P.S.: This is not the only highlight of that video. Here are other reasons why it's one of the best demo vids out there:
- good quality and sound
- Yoshi and Mario victory music
- a decent Yoshi player
- Metroid AT
- remixed Brinstar music on Norfair

EDIT: I changed the title and first post so that it is not misleading. This is not wavedashing but something that was not possible in Melee because of the new momentum physics in Brawl.
 
bigman40

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When yoshi landed from that, did the landing lag last that long? Or is it really landing lag? (the second it changes to 45 secs.)
 
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domiNate

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Wow man amazing find. Also what was up with sonic at 3:40? Looked like he also did some weird slide. Anyways this makes me very excited for yoshi potential.
 
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SJAK47

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Hmm, interesting. This is the first time I've seen Yoshi move so lucidly.
 
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Yoshi'stheBombers7

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I heard from numerous accounts of people who played the demo (even as Yoshi) say that there was no air dodge, because you can't air dodge into a certain direction, it remains neutral. However, when I watched that...a glimmer of hope was sparked in my heart.......... =)
 
iron blade

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yoshi looks pretty good in that video, but is it just me or does his smashes seem weaker? i'm not sure what was up with the semi-djc, but i thought you couldn't do that anymore.

metroid AT! looks very helpful, it catches opponents in midair and gives them a bunch of damage. it also makes a very interesting hat...XD
 
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domiNate

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Remember in melee how yoshi's second jump actually brought you down very slightly at the very beginning of the jump? Well if that's left in brawl and you timed an air dodge at the right moment, wouldn't that make yoshi wavedash? This would most likely be extremely hard to time though.
 
Chepe

Chepe

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Well, his aerials are supposed to be carried by the momentum of the second jump, because people said they couldnt DJC his moves when they played. It looks like air dodging is a special case, truly following momentum and ignoring any other rules...
 
DstyCube

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First off, this has been by far the best yoshi i've seen in brawl lol. Not like those dumb ones that just spam down-b's and roll off the stage in their egg. :psycho:

Second, NICE find.

domiNate said:
Remember in melee how yoshi's second jump actually brought you down very slightly at the very beginning of the jump? Well if that's left in brawl and you timed an air dodge at the right moment, wouldn't that make yoshi wavedash? This would most likely be extremely hard to time though.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure thats exactly what's happening. The weird part is that you have to actually get yoshi moving horizontally before you can do the DJC dodge since his second jump makes him dip straight down. Not exactly sure how viable it would be for WDing since it seems to kill you're horizontal momentum after you land. But it could definitely be part of yoshi's mindgame arsenal :chuckle:

P.S. Don't tell the other characters! They might get jealous! lol.
 
bigman40

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Chepe said:
Well, his aerials are supposed to be carried by the momentum of the second jump, because people said they couldnt DJC his moves when they played. It looks like air dodging is a special case, truly following momentum and ignoring any other rules...
Click to expand...
Hmm......if thats the case then would Lucas have the same thing?
 
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kunai_abuser

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I want to see how easy/hard it is to pull off in the heat of battle, more studying is definitely needed when the game is released.
 
Chepe

Chepe

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bigman40 said:
Hmm......if thats the case then would Lucas have the same thing?
Click to expand...
I was thinking about that, and characters like Peach, Lucas (if he retained Ness' jump), and Mewtwo should be able to do it too... But Yoshi has the fastest movement down before he goes up, so Im guessing that if this becomes viable, then Yoshi will have the best one...
 
gamer8

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That video is amazing! Yoshi looks so much better in this game, awesome! He's one of my favorite characters, I mained him in melee, no doubt about it, I'll main him in brawl.
 
iron blade

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Yoshi330 said:
I should hope not, i hope they get rid of wavedashing as a whole.
Click to expand...
unless they change it by February, you can't wavedash because you can't point an airdodge in a direction. personally, i think airdodging without free-fall animation after it is much more useful that wavedashing.
 
Yosher

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I don't really mind if Yoshi will be the only one able to wavedash cause I never really cared too much for the technique. I learned to effectively use it in Melee but it kind of took the fun out of the game because my opponents could rarely catch me while using it. This version of the wavedash doesn't look all too reliable tho, so I don't think it'll matter that much.
 
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Yoshi'stheBombers7

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Yosher said:
I don't really mind if Yoshi will be the only one able to wavedash cause I never really cared too much for the technique. I learned to effectively use it in Melee but it kind of took the fun out of the game because my opponents could rarely catch me while using it. This version of the wavedash doesn't look all too reliable tho, so I don't think it'll matter that much.
Click to expand...
Yea, wavedashing does give a major advantage over the other player if they don't know the technique. I still wan't it, though. :)
 
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WoodyWiggins

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Wow, nice find, but why is it so important to find evidence of wavedashing in Brawl? Shouldn't we more concerned about possible new techniques in Brawl? Wavedashing isn't really all that helpful, anyway. Old fashion shielding and rolling is just as effective. Slidesteping maybe just as effective as wavedashing. Instead of approaching Brawl with a Melee wired-brain, we should look toward Brawl's indigenous techniques (such as the Footstool Jump, Crawling, "Inkdrop", etc. . .) and build off those. Nonetheless, very nice find.
 
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Yoshi'stheBombers7

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WoodyWiggins said:
Shouldn't we more concerned about possible new techniques in Brawl? Wavedashing isn't really all that helpful, anyway. Old fashion shielding and rolling is just as effective.
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I really, really, REALLY, hope your joking. Seriously. Do watch pros? The reason they're pros. is because they play mind games, they're fast (wavedashing is faster then normal rolling), and WD helps numerous other stratigies. Have you ever heard of shine spiking? How about Luigi pros in action? Look at some pro. videos on youtube or something, and you'll understand why WD is so important.
 
bigman40

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Just shielding and rolling isn't as useful anymore since they lead to traps if opponents read your movements. WD make you think differently, since they can make characters move faster.
 
Gimpyfish62

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allow me to explain what actually happened in this clip.

once yoshis jumps, he immediately double jumps. his double jump STILL sends him downwards before it sends him upwards (as did peach's double jump) so he simply just lands from doing that. this is not a double jump cancel in any form, this is just a "being really low to the ground and jumping so it sends you into the ground" cancel.

dont get to excited peoples, his airdodge doesn't stop his momentum, you cant double jump cancel, and double jumping really quickly like that always had those kinds of effects, and they are generally not useful at all

so everyone needs to calm down.
 
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Tingle_Stole_My_Pants

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Gimpyfish62 said:
allow me to explain what actually happened in this clip.

once yoshis jumps, he immediately double jumps. his double jump STILL sends him downwards before it sends him upwards (as did peach's double jump) so he simply just lands from doing that. this is not a double jump cancel in any form, this is just a "being really low to the ground and jumping so it sends you into the ground" cancel.

dont get to excited peoples, his airdodge doesn't stop his momentum, you cant double jump cancel, and double jumping really quickly like that always had those kinds of effects, and they are generally not useful at all

so everyone needs to calm down.
Click to expand...
Generally not useful... with one exception. In the movie 'Perfect Control' by SuperDoodleMan, (at 1:37-1:49) Peach uses the double Jump extremely quickly out of a powershield. This allowed her to powershield immediately afterwards, so quickly that the peach could reflect every single one of Fox's lasers. I was able to reproduce this effect without an AR, only I sometimes messed up and went too fast (yes, I'd reflect two lasers, then bring up the shield before the second one hit. But then I'd double jump into the ground to powershield right out of a shield.)

Yoshi, Mewtwo, Ness, and Peach could all do this, and with the air dodge the way it is now, characters with a jump using those specific properties might be able to have a higher degree of control over their airdidges than the other characters. (Does that type of jump even have a name? Is it okay if I call it the "Magic Jump"? Because, you know, Peach seems to use magic to make it work, Ness uses PSI, Mewtwo uses his psychic skills, and Yoshi uses his crazy feet! Yeah... nevermind)

Then again, I haven't had any experience playing Brawl, and you had more than anyone, soo... That's just my take on it.
 
Chepe

Chepe

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Gimpyfish62 said:
allow me to explain what actually happened in this clip.

once yoshis jumps, he immediately double jumps. his double jump STILL sends him downwards before it sends him upwards (as did peach's double jump) so he simply just lands from doing that. this is not a double jump cancel in any form, this is just a "being really low to the ground and jumping so it sends you into the ground" cancel.

dont get to excited peoples, his airdodge doesn't stop his momentum, you cant double jump cancel, and double jumping really quickly like that always had those kinds of effects, and they are generally not useful at all

so everyone needs to calm down.
Click to expand...
Uhh, did you really look at the part Im talking about? Because Yoshi was way too high in the air to land on the ground from the double jump's slight fall. He is even in an airdodge pose as he makes toward the ground if you look carefully...

Seriously, he was so high in the air when he did the falling air dodge that another Yoshi could be placed under him comfortably. His double jump does not take him that far down before up...
 
Moon Monkey

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Some one please explain to me what in the world is Yoshi doing 1:32 to 1:33 i have seen him do it three times in three different videos at first i thought it was the screw ball and now i am wondering if this some weird jump they added to yoshi?
 
Chepe

Chepe

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Moon Monkey said:
Some one please explain to me what in the world is Yoshi doing 1:32 to 1:33 i have seen him do it three times in three different videos at first i thought it was the screw ball and now i am wondering if this some weird jump they added to yoshi?
Click to expand...
Yes, its very likely it was just the effect of a grabbed Screw Ball. In Brawl, the Screw Ball attaches to the character instead of being held, so you can do A moves and grab other items...
 
Chepe

Chepe

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Gimpyfish62 said:
give me the time of the video, i watched what you described and i'm telling you what happened
Click to expand...
It happens in a split second between 0:44 and 0:45...

If you are looking at what Im looking at, then I cant see how you think Yoshi could have gone down so far from starting his second jump, he is one "Yoshi height" up when he starts his double jump...

A few seconds after the maneuver, he does his second jump to catch the Starman, and it is clear that Yoshi doesnt travel down too far when he does his second jump...
 
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