i dont think sakurai likes us very much =/

Desh. · Dec 3, 2007

lol i've been saying this from the start >.< sakurai wants to kill competitive smash.why? no clue.
he brings back like the worst banned stage evar. he makes one of the most vital differences based on items (wich are banned), final smashes. a lot of stages he makes are probably going to be banned (norfair and the ic one).he focuses a lot on "cool new items hurray". I think hes trying to kill it by making it more of a party type game D=. wich it already is but. yea =/

and now he takes a shot at us with "real men use items"

coincidence? i think not.

but this is imho.

geogaither · Dec 3, 2007

Competitive smash is great and all... but dont you like to sit back, and play w/ 3 other friends for fun?
Are all of your friends of equal playing skill? Is it fun to demolish them over and over w/ tourney rules?

Items and wacky stages even the playing ground, imo. It's fun to play w/ people you know.

tutter · Dec 3, 2007

I think you bring up a valid point, but Nintendo Wii is a party system. And, their goal is to let my six year old bbrother and my forty four year old dad able to play Brawl just like me.

blayde_axel · Dec 3, 2007

He's trying to make the game fun for everyone. Thus, he's making the game for competitive players. Because he's making the game fun for everyone.

You know how many stages they are going to have? A lot. Some are going to be banned, and some are not. And there are still going to be stages to play on competitively.

Final Smashes... well, that's when you turn off every other item BESIDES the Final Smash. There you go.

And about the items... sure, he's gonna add more items. It'd be boring if he doesn't add any more. But that's why there's an item switch.

Of course, this is your opinion. And this is mine. And, well, you'll never know who's right!

ShortFuse · Dec 3, 2007

I think that was Nate's doing. If you watch the E For All preview he's calls us "purists" but not too much in a condescending way. (He was the the "tour guide" for the press release).
I think he's joking around and poking fun with that pic. He was saying he likes to play items but understands that many of us don't.

Hoboman725 · Dec 3, 2007

Sakurai hates us, that's why he decided to make us another smash game.

2.72 · Dec 3, 2007

Very true. If he really liked us, he would have given us Metaknight's special moves today

By the way, the Dojo writer, Nate I-Forget-His-Last-Name-But-It-Starts-With-B, appears to have an, umm, opinion about items from his comments at the media demonstration of the demo. He might have put that comment in the screenshot himself, particularly because it's coming from a person named Nate.

Perhaps SamuraiPanda can confirm this.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Oddly enough, the Spanish screenshot says exactly the same thing. In English.

GreenKirby · Dec 3, 2007

Wow! Another paranoid idiot. >_>

Brockman5 · Dec 3, 2007

I say forget all of that fighting stuff..Im more depressed about the friend code update then anything, because nobody wants them in the first place...

Jonkenden · Dec 3, 2007

Ehm reality check, this is indeed a party style game. And majority of players don't play tournaments or by their rules. And gaming like many other industries, focus on the larger masses more than the smaller ones. That said there has been no word on what is possible to shut off, so maybe your are jumping the gun. The "shot" at the tourney players based on a single sentence taunt, is a bit jumpy no? It might have been meant as a joke but it sure seems like a very effective taunt ^^

Desh. · Dec 3, 2007

i actually do SOMETIMES find playing with items fun...but really not too much =/
the stages i dont mind... but aside from playing for FUN with items...final smash in competitive play? naw b.
and i honestly think it'll be a 60:40 split for stages
the banned stages being the 60 that is. like you said it is a party system. so there'll be a lot.
plus ...i cant say i'm looking forward to mini games in brawl. and dont deny it. it'll happen.
nintendos going on a mini game frenzy...like wtf? mini games in mortal kombat? a little too far.

edit:^^^^ cant agree with you there, =/.
when melee came out it was a big hit for a while. but it was only popular for a certain amount of time. The people who still play are the COMPETITIVE smashers. its rare to find someone who hasnt moved on and is still playing melee for fun.

I'm not paranoid either but i'm stating facts. i dont think theyre too fond of us from the updates we've gotten. and the comments made by nate =/

Zero_P · Dec 3, 2007

Sakurai is a jerk because he's busting his *** off to make a game. Yup.

blayde_axel · Dec 3, 2007

There's going to be a competitive scene for Brawl. Trust me.

Just like there's going to be a casual scene.

No need to worry.

And as much as I hate to say it, Smash is a party game! lol.

Youkai Master · Dec 3, 2007

Yes, I am pretty sure that was Nate's doing. I think he's allowed to take a little liberty writing the updates.

In E for All he commented on how he likes to play with items but he knows there are "tournament players" who "religiously" play without them or something...

Desh. · Dec 3, 2007

read edit up ther^^^^

ShortFuse · Dec 3, 2007

That comment "Real Men Use Items" doesn't exist in the Japanese version. It says "let's be friends" or something. It was NATE not Sakurai and nate is a pro-items player but respects us and even calls us "purists" since we focus on lowlevel gameplay and player skill. go watch the e4all summit gameplay demonstration.

Sakurai loves us and kept dash dancing, powershielding, short hops, some l-cancelling, dash-cancel, and edge guarding. sakurai loves us. no worries.

Desh said:
i actually do SOMETIMES find playing with items fun...but really not too much =/
the stages i dont mind... but aside from playing for FUN with items...final smash in competitive play? naw b.
and i honestly think it'll be a 60:40 split for stages
the banned stages being the 60 that is. like you said it is a party system. so there'll be a lot.
plus ...i cant say i'm looking forward to mini games in brawl. and dont deny it. it'll happen.
nintendos going on a mini game frenzy...like wtf? mini games in mortal kombat? a little too far.

i like the trophy minigame (where you have to put the trophies in the basket)

Joshua368 · Dec 3, 2007

lol i've been saying this from the start >.< sakurai wants competitive smash to continue strong.why? no clue.
he very likely is bringing back like the best stage evar, pokemon stadium. he creates a brand new and optional gampelay mechanic called a final smash to enhance battles. a lot of stages he makes are tournament friendly such as battlefield, delfino plaza, yoshi's island, lylat cruise, smashville, castle seige and battleship halberd. he focuses a lot on battle techniques such as gliding and footstool jump which will enhance gameplay. I think hes trying to expand it by giving competitive players more new stuff to enjoy D=. wich it already would do but. yea =/

and now the english translator of the dojo site makes a joking side remark to the competitive scene

coincidence? i think not.

but this is imho.

Chaosblade77 · Dec 3, 2007

I think people are looking at this all wrong. Neither of the previous games were intended to become the competitive games they were. Most of Melee's depth was purely accidental. Just because Sakurai isn't focusing on the competitive crowd doesn't mean he does not like it, nor does it mean it won't exist. Did he focus on the competitive crowd in Melee?

If he really hated competitive play there wouldn't be simple stages like Battlefield, and an item switch. I think he knows players will make the game competitive, he doesn't have to. He just has to give the people the tools to do it. Neutral stages, item switch, and a balanced roster (which Melee lacked) and players can take it from there. That is what happened with Melee.

I don't have anything against the competitive crowd or the playstyle of the competitive crowd, but I really think some people who fall in that category are being extremely pessimistic without much reason since the game has not even been released, or are expecting the future of advanced techniques and other competitive-oriented information to be handed to them in a Dojo update. The pessimism is what bothers me, since this game has the same focus that Melee did, and look how Melee turned out.

GreenKirby · Dec 3, 2007

People fail to realize that Melee's comeptive got deep by luck. And why is it that absolutetly NO TOURNEY PLAYER consider the following:
Footstool Jumping
Crawling
Attack and jumping after dodging
Swimming
Ink Dropping
L-Canceling still in appreantly
Battefield
Smashville
Item Switch still in

xYz · Dec 3, 2007

im not worried one bit.

Shock the Hedgehog · Dec 3, 2007

Yeah, you might not have known this, but not everyone who plays Smash is competetive.

If Sakurai really hated us, he wouldn't be making the game or updating the site.

Black/Light · Dec 3, 2007

. . . Did we all forget that you can make any stage you want or am I the only one that can remember that fare back? Don't like items? Turn them off. . .

Smash is and has always been a party/fighting game and thats how he is making it.

Eternal phoenix Fire · Dec 3, 2007

Yeah. It really sucks that Sakurai gave us a stage bulider, huh?

As a competative player, I find this to be completely false. It may appear that way because of Nintendo's constant appeal towards a specicfic (open) demographic, but competative nature will still exist in smash, it'll just be different than Melee. When me and the other competative smashers first played Brawl, we felt that it wouldn't be that competative as well, but that was because we didn't have firm control over our characters. Over time we adapted to the changes (The momentum airdodge, lol) and it felt natural, and it will be the same with everybody. Right now you're just in a stage of fright because of the potential of a prolonged change in the game system will completely affect the way you play. It's natural to feel this way, it has been 6 years after all.

Just relax, this game is going to be O.K. =D

Zero_P · Dec 3, 2007

ShortFuse said:
That comment "Real Men Use Items" doesn't exist in the Japanese version. It says "let's be friends" or something. It was NATE not Sakurai and nate is a pro-items player

Is that so? What a goof :laugh:

2.72 · Dec 3, 2007

Am I the only one who thought that Nate's comments were absolutely hilarious? Seriously, guys, he was joking!

Besides, Sakurai apparently thinks that everyone can enjoy Brawl:

While this update didn't give us much information, I laughed hard. Thanks, Nate.

ShortFuse · Dec 3, 2007

Nate was joking, sakurai never said it. and sakurai put an option to not jump by pressing up on the d-pad, for us competitive players. that wasn't placed for newbs. no worries

Zero_P · Dec 3, 2007

Nice try ROFL

Desh. · Dec 3, 2007

yea and what about stage builder? do you realise how dumb it would be if we used home made stages? it would and could give the maker of it an unfair advantage seeing as he made it and knows how to play in the stage. If you bring a really weird stage to a tourny and **** everyone in it cuz its so akward but u know how to use it its not fair. everyone would need to play said stage ahead of the tourny that it would be played at. and for those of you who dont have wifi or a wii for that matter are completely screwed.

GreenKirby · Dec 3, 2007

And notice this:

You could say that Sakurai and whoever Sass is representing people who KNOWS that Brawl is for All :D

Zero_P · Dec 3, 2007

Desh said:
yea and what about stage builder? do you realise how dumb it would be if we used home made stages? it would and could give the maker of it an unfair advantage seeing as he made it and knows how to play in the stage. If you bring a really weird stage to a tourny and **** everyone in it cuz its so akward but u know how to use it its not fair. everyone would need to play said stage ahead of the tourny that it would be played at. and for those of you who dont have wifi or a wii for that matter are completely screwed.

Why on earth would a competitive smasher bring a weird stage? We both know that the only stage competitive smashers are going to create are "FD-like" stages. >_>

Rash · Dec 3, 2007

So much effort and consideration is going into the production of this game. I didn't mind criticism at first, but now it almost seems insulting to continue questioning the developers like this.

Seriously, guys. Have you been keeping up with the updates? Brawl is going to have almost everything you could possibly dream for a Smash Brothers game in it. At this point there really shouldn't be much of a reason to worry or complain.

How often do you see devs busting their hump to make a game this good, this fleshed out, and this polished/complete? It's just going to be another Nintendo masterpiece. And on top of that, I have no doubt that it's going to equally appeal to all sides, casual, competitive, hardcore, newbies, etc.

flyinfilipino · Dec 3, 2007

Desh said:
yea and what about stage builder? do you realise how dumb it would be if we used home made stages? it would and could give the maker of it an unfair advantage seeing as he made it and knows how to play in the stage. If you bring a really weird stage to a tourny and **** everyone in it cuz its so akward but u know how to use it its not fair. everyone would need to play said stage ahead of the tourny that it would be played at. and for those of you who dont have wifi or a wii for that matter are completely screwed.

I don't think Stage Builder would be used that way in a tournament.

Eternal phoenix Fire · Dec 3, 2007

Desh said:
yea and what about stage builder? do you realise how dumb it would be if we used home made stages? it would and could give the maker of it an unfair advantage seeing as he made it and knows how to play in the stage. If you bring a really weird stage to a tourny and **** everyone in it cuz its so akward but u know how to use it its not fair. everyone would need to play said stage ahead of the tourny that it would be played at. and for those of you who dont have wifi or a wii for that matter are completely screwed.

You know, maybe, just maybe, the tournament communty could create a "mandatory" stage for Brawl tournaments? And that can be used. I never actually assumed that the stage builder stages were going to be used by individuals, but it could be for fun actually.

Jonkenden · Dec 3, 2007

Desh said:
edit:^^^^ cant agree with you there, =/.
when melee came out it was a big hit for a while. but it was only popular for a certain amount of time. The people who still play are the COMPETITIVE smashers. its rare to find someone who hasnt moved on and is still playing melee for fun.

I'm not paranoid either but i'm stating facts. i dont think theyre too fond of us from the updates we've gotten. and the comments made by nate =/

There is plenty of people around that still play it even if they dont play it through tournaments. Tournaments are just more fuss and is shown activly while casual plays at home are kept under wraps.

And I never called you paranoid, I said you where jumpy and I meant you where quick to judge.

Look most game developers don't even let their players know what is going on monthly let alone monday to friday every week. Don't you think this person making theese updates care about it's audience? If he didn't he probably wouldn't have put up the site in the first place.

And I have a little pet peeve with people saying they are stating facts, this is assumptions you make through information being translated by a second hand person and on the updates. Facts are not the same as assumptions, if you had say sakurai stating cleanly that he dislikes the competive scene and a link to that statmement that would be fact.

Desh. · Dec 3, 2007

lol it wasnt you who i said called me paranoid xD it was someone else.
and aside from that they may be trying to please public but i sincerely dont think they worry too much about us and focus on the people who will play it for a bit n get tired of it =/.

and with wii being the console it plays for i dont know...wii doesnt sell as well as nintendo or "statistics" make it look. the truth in the matter is its 360>wii>ps3
in that order of wich sells better =/ and 74% of the owners of a 360 previously owned a gc...not a xbox.

nintendo created artificial demand. they say they sell out in every store!!!. wich is true. but they never tell you how many wii's are IN store. or for a better fact how many they sell.

GreenKirby · Dec 3, 2007

Actually, the Wii DID outsell the Xbox360 just recently

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3162770

flyinfilipino · Dec 3, 2007

GreenKirby said:
Actually, the Wii DID outsell the Xbox360 just recently

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3162770

Good stuff.

DraginHikari · Dec 3, 2007

The thing you guys also have to take into consideration is that for the most part they don't need to directly cater to the competitve scene in appearance, because they don't really need to convince those people to buy their product, even if there were no updates most of those players here would probably buy it anyway. Most special techinques are going to be found by players like the preivous games anyway.

Casual players on the other hand, espeically those that have never played Melee or 64, have to see things to convince them to buy such a product, since Smash is such a different game compared to most fighters. It's basically an attempt to make the game easy for anyone to play, but at the same time difficult to completely master. Which is what Smash has mostly always been...

This whole thing over todays update is the most annoying thing I've seen yet, people are taking a random phase in a random screenshot as an offical viewpoint from the developers on that subject... that's just ridculious.

Desh. · Dec 3, 2007

ok once again. did you not read my post? The wii isnt as selling as well as you think despite what 1up says. The point is nintendo can say they sold "x" amount but in actuality sold 4 =/
This creates hype. Almost every gaming company, or company in general does this.
go to a grocery store and tell me how many of the exact same food product says "worlds best" on it.
I'm taking marketing. Nintendo makes artificial demand making it look like they sell better. wich insinuates its the superior or better console, thus attracting MORE business. wii sells about 86% of what the 360 sells.

and dont give me this "but 1up doesnt lie"

most things on the intraweb is lies.

blayde_axel · Dec 3, 2007

GreenKirby said:
Actually, the Wii DID outsell the Xbox360 just recently

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3162770

Wow! That story's from September! lol. But i still believe it.

But anyway, there truly is nothing to worry about. Nintendo, in general, isn't focusing as much to hardcore gamers. That's pretty much true.

But Nintendo's views does NOT equal Sakurai's. With Brawl, he's making the game fun for all. Nintendo makes the Wii fun for anyone who doesn't know what games in the 7th gen truly can be, in my opinion.

i dont think sakurai likes us very much =/

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