Uncloned Ganondorf confirmed by absence of Falcon?

Locke7301 · Nov 7, 2007

A lot of people have been curious as to why capt. falcon (along with Ness) are the only two characters from Melee that havn't been confirmed. My theory is that capt. falcon has returned to be hidden like in 64. I think that he wasn't hidden in Melee because Ganondorf was a clone and it wouldn't make sense to have two hidden characters who were that similar (Marth and Roy were hidden because of being japan only). So does the capt. absence possibly confirm a unclonned Ganondorf. i think it does. i would be surprised and pissed if Ganondorf remained a clone. Tell me what u guys think.

WindSquirrel · Nov 7, 2007

...or maybe the DOJO isn't revealing characters that were previously unlockables? (For whatever reason)

raul · Nov 7, 2007

Captain Falcon and Ganondorf will not be clones. Both will be on the DOJO updates soon.

Nasir · Nov 7, 2007

raul said:
Captain Falcon and Ganondorf will not be clones. Both will be on the DOJO updates soon.

I don't think they will. I think both are unlockables and will not be revealed on the Dojo website before the game is released. I mean it was quite a long time since we got a confirmation of a veteran returning, so it could mean that all of the veterans who will be in Brawl, but have not yet been revealed, will in fact be unlockables. That's at least my theory...

the grim lizard · Nov 7, 2007

This is terrible logic.

raul · Nov 7, 2007

Nasir said:
I don't think they will. I think both are unlockables and will not be revealed on the Dojo website before the game is released. I mean it was quite a long time since we got a confirmation of a veteran returning, so it could mean that all of the veterans who will be in Brawl, but have not yet been revealed, will in fact be unlockables. That's at least my theory...

I'm under the impression that all the characters were to be revealed via the DOJO updates, whether they are unlockable or not. That's the word on the forum anyway, so that's what I am basing my theory off of.

Nasir · Nov 7, 2007

raul said:
I'm under the impression that all the characters were to be revealed via the DOJO updates, whether they are unlockable or not. That's the word on the forum anyway, so that's what I am basing my theory off of.

Yeah, well I've heard that with Melee they revealed unlockables just after the game was released and not before. And I both think and hope that it's so with Brawl too. I think that Sakurai actually said it himself that they won't reveal unlockables before the game is released, that's at least what I've heard. Except third parties of course... I mean, I think Luigi would have been confirmed by now, and hasn't he always been an unlockable alongside Jigglypuff? Both of them have not yet been revealed and if my theory is correct, they won't before the game is released.

Jmax · Nov 7, 2007

Locke7301 said:
A lot of people have been curious as to why capt. falcon (along with Ness) are the only two characters from Melee that havn't been confirmed. My theory is that capt. falcon has returned to be hidden like in 64. I think that he wasn't hidden in Melee because Ganondorf was a clone and it wouldn't make sense to have two hidden characters who were that similar (Marth and Roy were hidden because of being japan only).

But they were both unlockables IN Japan, so that logic doesn't work.

Locke7301 · Nov 7, 2007

raul said:
I'm under the impression that all the characters were to be revealed via the DOJO updates, whether they are unlockable or not. That's the word on the forum anyway, so that's what I am basing my theory off of.

ive heard that before but im not sure how much truth it holds. i hope that its not true because i dont want to know the hidden characters, but i cant help myself at this point not to check DOJO daily. haha

raul · Nov 7, 2007

Nasir said:
Yeah, well I've heard that with Melee they revealed unlockables just after the game was released and not before. And I both think and hope that it's so with Brawl too. I think that Sakurai actullay said it himself that they won't reveal ulockables before the game is released, that's at least what I've heard. Except third parties of course... I mean, I think Luigi would have been confirmed by now, and hasn't he always been an unlockable alongside Jigglypuff? Both of them have not yet been revealed and if my theory is correct, they won't before the game is released.

That's a good point, but what about Sonic and Snake? These are very popular and high demanded characters, so why would they be revealed so early on? I doubt they are going to be characters that you can start with. And Captain Falcon and Ness were not unlockables in Melee, so why would they become locked characters now?

Super_alex2 · Nov 7, 2007

there is a lot more from melee that havent been confirmed, Locke. but im certain that C. Falcon will still be in Brawl, he is actually a very popular character.

raul · Nov 7, 2007

Locke7301 said:
ive heard that before but im not sure how much truth it holds. i hope that its not true because i dont want to know the hidden characters, but i cant help myself at this point not to check DOJO daily. haha

I hear ya, I'm doing the same thing.

Chaosblade77 · Nov 7, 2007

raul said:
That's a good point, but what about Sonic and Snake? These are very popular and high demanded characters, so why would they be revealed so early on?

I think Sonic was supposed to be a cover for the delay. People would think "OMG SONIC!!!!111oneone11eleven1seven!"

Snake was announced a long time ago as well, probably just to hype up the game and say "Look! Third party characters!"

Both were used strategically.

I think Falcon will be one of the next characters updated, simply because he was unlockable in the first game, not in the second game, and is most certainly in Brawl. Ness follows the same pattern, but there is still debate whether Lucas has replaced him or not.

Nasir · Nov 7, 2007

raul said:
That's a good point, but what about Sonic and Snake? These are very popular and high demanded characters, so why would they be revealed so early on? I doubt they are going to be characters that you can start with. And Captain Falcon and Ness were not unlockables in Melee, so why would they become locked characters now?

If I'm not mistaken, Sakurai said once that all third parties wil be unlockables, so yeah you're right, they probably won't be playable from the beginning. But the reason why they have been revealed so early... well it would be quite stupid not to. Think about it... How many people speak about Mario, Sonic and even Snake in the same game?!! That's probably why. So third parties are an exception.

Captain Falcon were not unlockable in Melee as you pointed out, but the answer to this one may follow Locke's theory. Ganondorf will probably not be a clone of C. Falcon and therefore they have a bigger reason of having Falcon as an unlockable as he were in the N64 version. And Ness... well I'm not so sure that he will be in this game actually. Lucas may have replaced him, if not then it can also be because Lucas will be playable from the beginning and they want to have one of them as an unlockable, I know not much of a logic, but I really do not have a better answer than that.

Superninjabreadman · Nov 7, 2007

Locke7301 said:
ive heard that before but im not sure how much truth it holds. i hope that its not true because i dont want to know the hidden characters, but i cant help myself at this point not to check DOJO daily. haha

Yeah for a time i tried to stop checking dojo. then I realized I was going to get the guide or w/e to see how to unlock anyone anyway. so its pointless.

raul · Nov 7, 2007

Nasir said:
If I'm not mistaken, Sakurai said once that all third parties wil be unlockables, so yeah you're right, they probably won't be playable from the beginning. But the reason why they have been revealed so early... well it would be quite stupid not to. Think about it... How many people speak about Mario, Sonic and even Snake in the same game?!! That's probably why. So third parties are an exception.

Captain Falcon were not unlockable in Melee as you pointed out, but the answer to this one may follow Locke's theory. Ganondorf will probably not be a clone of C. Falcon and therefore they have a bigger reason of having Falcon as an unlockable as he were in the N64 version. And Ness... well I'm not so sure that he will be in this game actually. Lucas may have replaced him, if not then it can also be because Lucas will be playable from the beginning and they want to have one of them as an unlockable, I know not much of a logic, but I really do not have a better answer than that.

Ok i see where youre headed with this, but wouldn't it make sense to have Captain Falcon as the starting character and Ganondorf as the unlockable. Capt. Falcon was removed as a secret character in Melee why would he be back in the secret character role in Brawl, where as Ganondorf started as a secret character, why would he not continue to be one?

Nasir · Nov 7, 2007

raul said:
Ok i see where youre headed with this, but wouldn't it make sense to have Captain Falcon as the starting character and Ganondorf as the unlockable. Capt. Falcon was removed as a secret character in Melee why would he be back in the secret character role in Brawl, where as Ganondorf started as a secret character, why would he not continue to be one?

You mean why Falcon would not continue as a starting character?! Well, it could be because of that which I already said that perhaps it was the only reason why Falcon was a starting character in Melee that Ganondorf was a clone of him. And perhaps they thought that it was better to have the newcomer (Ganondorf) as an unlockable even if he was a clone than having Falcon who everyone sort of knew was playable.

And now in Brawl when the characters probably will have quite a different moveset than each other, they have them both unlockable. Ganondorf because he was unlockable in Melee and also because of his different moveset that they want to remain as a secret. C. Falcon perhaps because of the reason why he was playable from the start in Melee is no longer there... It's solely my theory, I could of course be wrong.

Biggie Smalls · Nov 7, 2007

You didn't do your homework on Sakurai's bias on Cpt. Falcon, how he said he'd reveal ALL characters, and there'd be NO clones, not to mention that there's many more than Ness and Cpt. Falcon not announced that were in Melee.

Locke7301 · Nov 7, 2007

Biggie Smalls said:
You didn't do your homework on Sakurai's bias on Cpt. Falcon, how he said he'd reveal ALL characters, and there'd be NO clones, not to mention that there's many more than Ness and Cpt. Falcon not announced that were in Melee.

yes but Ness and Cpt. Falcon are the only two non-unlockable characters from melee who havent been announced.

raul · Nov 7, 2007

Nasir said:
You mean why Falcon would not continue as a starting character?! Well, it could be because of that which I already said that perhaps it was the only reason why Falcon was a starting character in Melee that Ganondorf was a clone of him. And perhaps they thought that it was better to have the newcomer (Ganondorf) as an unlockable even if he was a clone than having Falcon who everyone sort of knew was playable.

And now in Brawl when the characters probably will have quite a different moveset than each other, they have them both unlockable. Ganondorf because he was unlockable in Melee and also because of his different moveset that they want to remain as a secret. C. Falcon perhaps because of the reason why he was playable from the start in Melee is no longer there... It's solely my theory, I could of course be wrong.

Ok, I get what youre saying, and I respect it, but I have to disagree just a bit. I'm thinking that they won't be clones but Capt. Falcon will not be a secret character and Ganondorf shall be. That is my theory.

Chaosblade77 · Nov 7, 2007

I see no real reason for Capitan Falcon to be unlockable. I mean, he is as much of a staple to the series as Mario is. Having characters that are that important to the series as unlockable is sort of... awkward.

Imagine Kirby and Pikachu being unlockable, it just doesn't work. That is basically how it is with Falcon now.

Nasir · Nov 7, 2007

raul said:
Ok, I get what youre saying, and I respect it, but I have to disagree just a bit. I'm thinking that they won't be clones but Capt. Falcon will not be a secret character and Ganondorf shall be. That is my theory.

Yeah, you may be right. You can certainly be right, and if you are then Falcon probably will be revealed really soon... I too don't think that Falcon should be an unlockable, at least if he's got the same moveset as the previous games... But if he will be a playable character from the start, he should have been revealed already. At least that's what I think.

raul · Nov 7, 2007

Nasir said:
Yeah, you may be right. You can certainly be right, and if you are then Falcon probably will be revealed really soon... I too don't think that Falcon should be an unlockable, at least if he's got the same moveset as the previous games... But if he will be a playable character from the start, he should have been revealed already. At least that's what I think.

Agreed he should have been revealed by now. I wonder what the hold up is. Perhaps your theory is correct. But with either theory, you would think CF would be here already.

Rex+ · Nov 7, 2007

Chaosblade77 said:
I see no real reason for Capitan Falcon to be unlockable. I mean, he is as much of a staple to the series as Mario is. Having characters that are that important to the series as unlockable is sort of... awkward.

Imagine Kirby and Pikachu being unlockable, it just doesn't work. That is basically how it is with Falcon now.

Wasn't he an unlockable fighter in the original SSB? I could see it going either way.
I don't see why an absence of Falcon could mean an original Ganondorf this time. That's like saying the absence of Ganondorf confirms Falcon.

Locke7301 · Nov 7, 2007

Rex+ said:
Wasn't he an unlockable fighter in the original SSB? I could see it going either way.
I don't see why an absence of Falcon could mean an original Ganondorf this time. That's like saying the absence of Ganondorf confirms Falcon.

umm no because Ganondorf was unlockable in melee and also a clone of capt. falcon. if falcon was unlockable this time then it would make no sense to keep Ganondorf a clone. who want to unlock two characters who are basically the same. *cough* *cough* *Roy*

Chaosblade77 · Nov 7, 2007

Rex+ said:
Wasn't he an unlockable fighter in the original SSB? I could see it going either way.
I don't see why an absence of Falcon could mean an original Ganondorf this time. That's like saying the absence of Ganondorf confirms Falcon.

That is why I used "now," but I probably should have explained that. He was far less popular before SSB, and really started growing in popularity after SSBM.

Now you find Chuck Norris jokes replaced with him moreso than any other game character (at least as far as I have seen). If being equal to Chuck Norris does not mean instant playability, I don't know what does.

Ok, that is not my serious reason, but with his popularity, it would just be awkward for him to be a hidden character.

cheezysnacks · Nov 7, 2007

the grim lizard said:
This is terrible logic.

QFT.........................

EdwardGordon · Nov 7, 2007

Locke7301 said:
A lot of people have been curious as to why capt. falcon (along with Ness) are the only two characters from Melee that havn't been confirmed. My theory is that capt. falcon has returned to be hidden like in 64. I think that he wasn't hidden in Melee because Ganondorf was a clone and it wouldn't make sense to have two hidden characters who were that similar (Marth and Roy were hidden because of being japan only). So does the capt. absence possibly confirm a unclonned Ganondorf. i think it does. i would be surprised and pissed if Ganondorf remained a clone. Tell me what u guys think.

Im not one to bash threads but I'll just simply state that you seem to be missing

Pichu, Jiggly, Luigi, Sheik, Marth, Roy Falco, Mewtwo, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, and Dr. Mario.

Also:
Falcon being absent for the time being has nothing to do with Ganondorf's moveset. Sorry to bash your theory.

And I believe that Ganondorf being in Brawl and having a new moveset is one of the only things everyone agrees on in this forum.

I tell you what I know and think.

Alan Redgown · Nov 7, 2007

So...where was it said that all characters will be announced on the Dojo before the game is released?

Rex+ · Nov 7, 2007

Locke7301 said:
umm no because Ganondorf was unlockable in melee and also a clone of capt. falcon. if falcon was unlockable this time then it would make no sense to keep Ganondorf a clone. who want to unlock two characters who are basically the same. *cough* *cough* *Roy*

Would it be so awkward in the end if Ganon had his own, original move set? Sakurai is cutting down on cloned movesets, you know.

Chaosblade77 said:
That is why I used "now," but I probably should have explained that. He was far less popular before SSB, and really started growing in popularity after SSBM.

Now you find Chuck Norris jokes replaced with him moreso than any other game character (at least as far as I have seen). If being equal to Chuck Norris does not mean instant playability, I don't know what does.

Ok, that is not my serious reason, but with his popularity, it would just be awkward for him to be a hidden character.

I understand. I myself don't care if he was unlockable or not, but his rising popularity greatly affects his chances to be on the starting roster, and makes it that much more likely.

But if Captain Falcon is unlockable, we don't unlock him. Captain Falcon unlocks himself when he feels like it.

raul · Nov 7, 2007

starting roster, and makes it that much more likely.

But if Captain Falcon is unlockable. We don't unlock him. Captain Falcon unlocks himself when he feels like it.

Its settled, anyone up for scrabble?

Locke7301 · Nov 7, 2007

EdwardGordon said:
Im not one to bash threads but I'll just simply state that you seem to be missing

Pichu, Jiggly, Luigi, Sheik, Marth, Roy Falco, Mewtwo, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, and Dr. Mario.

Also:
Falcon being absent for the time being has nothing to do with Ganondorf's moveset. Sorry to bash your theory.

And I believe that Ganondorf being in Brawl and having a new moveset is one of the only things everyone agrees on in this forum.

I tell you what I know and think.

ah yes Pichu, Jiggly, Luigi, Sheik, Marth, Roy Falco, Mewtwo, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, and Dr. Mario. i should have clarified. Ness and Cpt. Falcon are the only two non-unlockable characters from melee who have not been confirmed. Sheik was a transformation of Zelda and i have no clue what her fate is for brawl seeing that zelda is now tp based. but yea i still find it a little odd that the cpt. hasnt been confirmed dont you?

EdwardGordon · Nov 7, 2007

Locke7301 said:
ah yes Pichu, Jiggly, Luigi, Sheik, Marth, Roy Falco, Mewtwo, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, and Dr. Mario. i should have clarified. Ness and Cpt. Falcon are the only two non-unlockable characters from melee who have not been confirmed. Sheik was a transformation of Zelda and i have no clue what her fate is for brawl seeing that zelda is now tp based. but yea i still find it a little odd that the cpt. hasnt been confirmed dont you?

Yes..... a bit odd. Thanks for the clarification.

My guess: just to build suspense. That's all.

raul · Nov 7, 2007

I'm confident this Friday we'll have a big character update. Since October 25th, we havent had any PC updates so, I think we're due...I hope. And if it happens, I'm feelin' Capt. Falcon.

Locke7301 · Nov 7, 2007

raul said:
I'm confident this Friday we'll have a big character update. Since October 25th, we havent had any PC updates so, I think we're due...I hope. And if it happens, I'm feelin' Capt. Falcon.

yea i can see that happening, expecially with this unusually crappy week. what gives, previous items! shielding! come on Nintendo

raul · Nov 7, 2007

Locke7301 said:
yea i can see that happening, expecially with this unusually crappy week. what gives, previous items! shielding! come on Nintendo

Probably can't agree on what character to reveal...
Capt. Falcon!
NO, Luigi!
No, Ridley!
Krystal!
MANBEARPIG!
...
.....
.......

So, everyone agree on Capt. Falcon?
Yeah, ok
sure
allright

After the meeting...
Manbearpig? Come on, Jim. Where's your head at?
Don't worry Jim, I had your back.
Thank's Frank...thanks.

Rex+ · Nov 7, 2007

Locke7301 said:
yea i can see that happening, expecially with this unusually crappy week. what gives, previous items! shielding! come on Nintendo

It's not that bad... we got the first musical piece we had in a while, and we got an SSE video with Rayquaza.
Also, Gray Fox isn't as dumb as most of the other AT's are out there.
This is a good week for me.

Locke7301 · Nov 7, 2007

Rex+ said:
It's not that bad... we got the first musical piece we had in a while, and we got an SSE video with Rayquaza.
Also, Gray Fox isn't as dumb as most of the other AT's are out there.
This is a good week for me.

i just dont see music as an update for some reason and AT's are starting to bore me, even though Gray Fox opens up potential for 3rd party AT's. SSE video was cool tho. haha. this week just doesnt live up to the past few weeks we've had....yet.

Chaosblade77 · Nov 7, 2007

raul said:
I'm confident this Friday we'll have a big character update. Since October 25th, we havent had any PC updates so, I think we're due...I hope. And if it happens, I'm feelin' Capt. Falcon.

Even more so: we have not had a veteran update in almost a month. I think there is a good chance of Falcon, or Ness if he is still in, getting confirmed.

Edit:

But if Captain Falcon is unlockable. We don't unlock him. Captain Falcon unlocks himself when he feels like it.

Or maybe the same applies to him appearing on the site. He will appear when he wants to.

raul · Nov 7, 2007

Personally, I'm not happy until I see a character, stage or AT for they generally deconfirm characters, but yeah this week is a bit of a downer so far.

Uncloned Ganondorf confirmed by absence of Falcon?

Smash Cadet

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Cadet

Smash Cadet

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Cadet

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Apprentice

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Cadet

Smash Lord

Smash Cadet

Smash Journeyman

Smash Cadet

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Cadet

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Cadet

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Cadet

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Information

Network