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Non-item Projectile Stats

Simna ibn Sind

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SIND#745
Categories-

Non-projectiles(these attacks look like projectiles, but act in every way like non-projectile attacks):
-Oil Panic
-PK Shove
-every move that is not reflectable

Standard Projectiles(these attacks follow the standard rules of priority and can be interacted with as normal projectiles. Unlike non-projectile attacks, these can clash with other attacks while airborne):
-everything not listed elsewhere

Projectile-like(these attacks are Non-projectiles that, like standard projectiles, can clash while airborne):
-Peach Bomber
-Falco Phantasm
-Fox Illusion
-Vanish

Laser Projectiles(these attacks will not clash with standard projectiles or non-projectile attacks, they will hit thru most attacks and are difficult to destroy):
-Blaster
-Blaster
-PK Thunder
-Blizzard
-Yoshi Bomb

Living Projectiles(these attacks are standard projectiles that have a secondary hitbox-shell surrounding the first one. This shell has an amount of HP that is reduced as time passes and as it gets hit. Living projectiles will stop both laser and standard projectiles):
-Needle Storm
-PK Fire
-Bomb(YLink)
-Bomb(Link)
-Bow
-Fire Bow

Super Projectiles(These attacks act like laser projectiles, but, while still able to clash with, are not broken by living projectiles. They cannot be outprioritized by any projectile and will not clash with standard or laser projectiles. These attacks will change ownership when reflected, but not change direction.):
-Din's Fire
-PK Flash
-PK Thunder's Tail
-Thunder
-Thunder

Piercing Projectile(These attacks act like laser projectiles, but will pass through a target after hitting it and keep going. Unlike Super Projectiles, these attacks will change direction when reflected.):
-Final Cutter
-Fire Breath

The highest priority projectile is PK Fire. A single PK Fire can stop a full charge from Needle Storm(the second highest priority projectile) if it hits the first needle. Living projectiles have higher priority in general because of their HP shell(this is why a single needle can break a fully charged charge-beam from Samus).

Super projectiles do not interact with any other moves except for Living projectiles...and those will never break Super projectiles. This means that they cannot be stopped by any attack, however it also means all other attacks will not be stopped and pass through to their target, with the exception of the Living projectiles that are destroyed by them. They can still, of course, be reflected.

Some test results:
-Final Cutter vs. Full Charge Needle Storm: Final Cutter travels its full range with full damage. Only one needle makes it to the opponent.
-Final Cutter vs. PK Fire: Projectiles clash, but both survive through and hit their targets at full power.
-PK Flash vs. Full Charge Needle Storm: All needles within the PK Flash hitbox are broken and PK Flash hits without weakening.
-PK Flash vs. PK Fire: Projectiles clash, but neither are broken nor weakened.
-Thunder vs. PK Fire: Projectiles clash, but neither are broken nor weakened.
-Thunder vs. full charge Needle Storm: Thunder is not weakened. About half of the needles are stopped(give or take 1 needle).

Other interesting info:
-PK Fire vs. continuous Fire Breath: PK Fire ignites as soon as it hits the fire
-PK Fire vs. continuous Blizzard: PK Fire clashes thru the Blizzard and reaches the ice climbers, but only hits one time and doesnt ignite
-PK Fire vs. Marth fsmash tipper: PK Fire clashes with the tipper, but continues on forward. If done at the closest possible range the PK Fire will reach Marth and hit him once without igniting; if done any further back the PK Fire will continue past the tipper, but its HP-shell will deplete completely by the time it reaches marth and although it will hit him, it will cause no stun nor damage.
 
Last edited:

bluezaft

The True Zaft
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Am I an idiot for now knowing what Final Cutter is? Doesn't ring a bell at all.
 

Crzy

Smash Journeyman
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Am I an idiot for now knowing what Final Cutter is? Doesn't ring a bell at all.
I believe it's Kirby's UpB move. I'm guessing the sword/wave that continues on is counted as a projectile which I never knew. XD

Anyway, I didn't know the PK Fire was good against the Needle Storm...Good stuff nonetheless. :)

EDIT:: Too slow..since I didn't refresh. :p
 

Simna ibn Sind

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PK Fire is not really a practical way to beat Needle Storm. PK Fire has a huge amount of lag and you cannot shoot PK Fire directly into a Needle Storm because Ness is too short/Sheik is too tall. You have to have Ness jump and shoot pk fire into the needles from the air...in which case the needles werent going to hit you anyway.

...but starting a fire on stuff is always good for Ness^_^ u can start fires on just about any projectile or even needles that are sticking into the ground^_^

but yeah this topic isnt meant to be about what projectile is the best...just about stats. PK Fire might be higher priority than needle storm, but the needles are a better attack overall.
 

Simna ibn Sind

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some othr things of interest regarding PK Fire

When does PK Fire ignite and when does it not ignite? I've found that PK Fire will not ignite on any laser projectiles except Fire Breath. It will ignite on most standard projectiles, but it doesn't ignite on Charge Beam. This makes me wonder: does pk fire's ignition rely on the existance of more than a single hitbox in the attack(why it doesnt start on charge beam) AND does PK Fire starting on Fire Breath have something to do with the 'burn' property of fire attacks?(other burn properties include the burn animation and the ice-melting effect)
 

Wave⁂

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I think relfectable and non-reflectable should be included... Hydro Pump cannot be reflected, etc.

Also, the "Pillar" of fire (not Samus) is probably a Non-projectile with Super Projectile's properties? I don't know.

By "Fire Breath," you are talking about Charizard's, right?
 

Foxman15

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That was pretty interesting to read. By "Fire Breath" I think he meant bowser, just guessing cause I don't use bowser/havent read much. His research seems to be inlcuding only moves, not items that you can add in matches. Items are for n00bs... that includes pokemon too (hydro pump). Just kidding about the n00b stuff, there is just so much labeling on these boards I had to chime in.
 

greenlink

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I think relfectable and non-reflectable should be included... Hydro Pump cannot be reflected, etc.

Also, the "Pillar" of fire (not Samus) is probably a Non-projectile with Super Projectile's properties? I don't know.

By "Fire Breath," you are talking about Charizard's, right?
The thread it named "no items" which means pokeballs don't count.
 

Simna ibn Sind

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I think relfectable and non-reflectable should be included... Hydro Pump cannot be reflected, etc.

Also, the "Pillar" of fire (not Samus) is probably a Non-projectile with Super Projectile's properties? I don't know.

By "Fire Breath," you are talking about Charizard's, right?
about PK Fire Pillar: I kind of decided to disregard extra moves that come out of projectiles like the PK Fire pillar and the explosion from Link's bombs(you can reflect the bomb, but not the explosion). I sort of treated them like unavoidable results of the projectiles hitting a target, but not something that would even be considered a projectile on its own.
 

Wave⁂

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I think you should clear up the "common" misconception regarding Samus's fair and usmash.

Also, you could add the falling-through-the-neck-of-Corneria-by-jabbing-one-of-Samus's-bombs glitch.

That was a long word.
 

Cereal Rabbit

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I'm not sure if Disjointed Hit Boxes (Gaaah, I don't know Dx) would count as Projectiles. Unless they are. Technically the "attack" isn't on the character. I don't really think Samus's Up-Smash and F-air would be projectiles. Would that mean that Ness's Fair and Dash Attack would be projectiles too?

Anyone feel free to correct me because I don't know what I'm talking about..... lulz * hides away *

EDIT: Oh nevermind, I was thinking about poop.
 

Simna ibn Sind

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yeah pills and fireballs are standard projectiles


but as far as animations of attacks go im trying to disregard that...im deciding whats a projectile based on the moves properties rather than the animtion. Basically the defiining property being that projectiles can be reflected(I guess this means yoshi's downB is part projectile....i'll look at that). There are some acceptions to this(throw a fan at fox's reflector), but yeah as far as this topic is concerned what I put as projectiles are things that can be reflected.

The things I have under non-projectiles cant be reflected.

about Yoshi's downB: the stars that come out can be reflected...im gonna guess right now based on past experience that they are either Super or Laser projectiles. I'll test it tho.
 

Dodger

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Shame on anyone who doesn't know what the Final Cutter is XD.
So the Final Cutter destroys all but one needle? I didn't know that. And what's PK Shove, the dash attack?
 

Linkster47

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If you put three PK flases into G&W's bucket it does tons damage, strongest projectile in the game. If you counter it with Roy it does insane damage and becomes the strongest move in the game. I wonder what it's priority is, probably as much as a reular oil panic?
 

Simna ibn Sind

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oil panic is a non-projectile and follows the same priority rules as other non projectiles

stronger oil panic have more priority than weaker ones

EDIT: annoying...how could you?!!!
 

Dodger

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Feb 25, 2005
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Simna do you think you're more of a Dr. Smash than Mew2King though?

Oh, and quit messing around with projectiles and get to work on your combo video!!
 
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