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The Probable Character Roster 3.0 ^_^

Homelessvagrant

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Alright, this is the Probable Character Roster 3.0. It's been upgraded in multiple ways in that it now includeds a third party slot, a WTF list, links to most characters thread or Dojo page (just click the pic), and I've changed the text to make it easier to read and less wordy (this way people will actually read before the ZOMGs commence). Also I now have a color code for the central character proabability listings. I thank you all for your participation thus far and urge you to continue to come here for general character disccussion and debate. As always I urge all commentors to be corteous and not flame and if you have an idea or don't agree with something tell me so I can fix things. I thank all for coming and ask you to enjoy this thread

First before starting, I'd like to mention a few things. I might have some WTF characters above other seemingly more popular characters, please bare with me. In making this list, I followed a few rules posted below (remember no one expected Pokemon Trainer or Ice climbers , so we have to think Sakurai wise).

The Red rule: Sakurai isn't limited in anyway when it comes to inclusions of popular nintendo characters. Characters like Red, Tom Nook, and Sukapon may not seem like they would fit because of seemingly limiting factors in design characteristics and persona but if Sakurai wants them in, he'll do it.

The IC rule: Ice climbers, while not much into the popularity role, where put into brawl because of two things: Retro attributes and personal affect on Sakurai himself. Therefore certain seemingly non popular characters may get in because of this same reason. However this rule is rarely applied to a character and doesn't boost a characters role much higher.

The Japanese rule: Characters in Japan have a much lesser chance of being in brawl because their region limited appearance. this however may come out as opposite if the Japanese character may bring a possible marketing option in the future or the character has either vast popularity or significance.

The overpopulation rule: A certain franchise may not have an over excess of characters. Also lesser series may not have more characters than a bigger series.

Sakurai's modesty rule: Sakurai's a modest man (we all know that) so he may not represent his characters much like others. Also 3rd party characters are very unpredictable therefore and won't be on the main list (sorry).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now for this version of the probability thread a color code is given for pics. It's pretty easy to understand

Blue=In

Royal Blue=Shoe-ins

Pale Green=Highly probable

Lime=Quite probable

Yellow=Decently probability

Orange=Slightly unprobability

Red=Unprobable

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright here we go (I'm not going to mention in excess, characters that have already been confirmed but may mention what they may mean for other characters)

1)
Mario = in

2)
Link = in

3)
Pikachu = in

4)
Kirby = in

5) Metaknight = in
At first this character might not seem to mean much, but for a Kirby fan who gets tired of modest Sakurai always downing his own series this character can always boost up your hopes.

6)
Pit = in

7)
Samus/Zamus = in

8)
Wario = in

9)
Fox = in

10) Snake = in
Snake is an awesome character and everyone should thank Hideo Kojima for begging him in. He is the reason for a certin other individual on this list.

11)
Zelda/Sheik = in

12)
Bowser = in

13)
Donkey Kong = in

14)
Yoshi = in

15)
Ike = in

16)
Pokemon Trainer = in
This character is pretty revolutionary to the world of smash and honestly brought up many charcters that probably would have been lower in this list. We thank you Red.

17)
Peach = in

18)
Diddy Kong = in

19)
Ice climbers = in


20)
Lucas = in
 

Homelessvagrant

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21)
Sonic=in
He finally has arrived (which is odd for the speed demon he is). But sonic was no doubt going to be announced sooner or later and now we can rest easy. wow the PC's have now passed a third of pages set for playable characters. This leaves less than nineteen to join the brawl (assuming the roster consists of 40 chars)


22)
King Dedede =in
A character frequently talked about he is considered a shoe-in and that has given him the strength to get in.


23)
Capt. Olimar = in
The protagonist in Pikmin was considered as a smash characters since his appearance on the cube. However there may be a few things hindering his reign.

24)
Capt. Falcon = 99%
Really this is a big duh, one has to struggle to find reason for Capt. Falcon to be replaced.
I had to struggle for disadvanges for him and only the closest I could was figure Rick Wheeler ( the main character from the anime/GBA game), but that’s rubbish. So there is 99% chance of Falcon being in the game and 1% chance Sakurai will get stupid. The only question is will he be a starter.
Advantages
-He’s the main from F-Zero
-Having been in Smash he hits all points of the PRA
-He’s a popular character and arguably a trademark of Smash
-His icon has already been shown with samurai Ghorro
Disadvantages
- no noticeable disadvantage

25)
Luigi = 98%
He’s one of the original 12 and a popular character. The only noticeable problem is his clone aspects (though it can be argued that LM and M&L SS contrast that)
Advantages
-Popularity
-He has had an increasing role and has developed unique attacks
-Developed role in Mario games
-Unique atributes
-Luigi supposedly leaked in interview
Disadvantages
-no noticeable disadvantages

26)
Ganondorf = 97%
He is the main villain for the popular LOZ series and a favorite for many Smashers. Really there’s not much to say though.
Advantages
-He’s been already leaked for character designs as known from an interview
-He’s popular
-He was on the Sakurai polls
-He has PRA
-He is a villain
Disadvantages
-No noticeable disadvantages

27)
Krystal = 91%
If I remember right Sakurai actually asked if people would like a player like Krystal would be good for brawl. That is saying a lot. She’s unique, a popular character, and fills all points of PRA
Advantages
-a popular character
-Has PRA
-Sakurai has shown interest in her.
-Female Character
Disadvantages
-no noticeable disadvantages

28)
Jigglypuff = 90%
A highly used character with a a reliant fanbase the pokemon however has been attacked with the accusation that it is old and forgotten.
Advantages
-Has a moveset already designed
-Has a strong fanbase
-One of the original 12
Disadvantages
-PT has shown that Sakurai may be aiming more at the games for inspiration, where Jiggly got her popularity from the anime
-Doesn't have an important role in the videogames

29)
Ridley = 88%
Now here’s a real character. The debate on whether he would or wouldn’t be in Brawl has caused much heated debate. Lets just go over these advantages and disadvantages
Advantages
-He was on Sakuarai’s poll
-He has wide support and popularity
-He brings more “cool” characters into brawl
-The gliding update seems to encourage more flying characters
-He’s a villain
Disadvantages
-The Ridley music possibly implies him as a boss as well as the Boss update
-Some view him as awkward

30)
Mr. Game & Watch = 88%
G &W fitted as the perfect WTF character in Melee and had a strong rule as the beginning of Nintendo’s roots as a VG company. But is that enough bring him back?
Advantages
-He is the root of all Nintendo
-He is the most unique character
-He was in Melee and has his own moves
-Red rule and IC rule
-While IC don't confirm him the icon placements highly hint at him
Disadvantages
-He is not popular
-G&W is a awkward character

31)
Marth = 86%
He was the original FE protagonist and would seem the perfect fit as a brawl rep, but Ike’s showing shows a possible lean to the more recent FE characters. But with his new DS game doesn't he count as a recent FE character as well as a the original character?
Advantages
-He was the star of the first FE game giving him a larger role than other FE characters
-He has an already made attack list that Ike has seemed not to take after thus far.
-He is popular and was in Melee
- He is the most reocurring character in the series being in three games (though one is merely a remake)
Disadvantages
-The frequency of sword users may lead Sakurai to look elsewhere in the FE universe for inspiration.

32)
Mewtwo = 85%
This really is a iffy subject. If It wasn’t for his bad rep in Melee Mewtwo would surely be higher on this list, because that is the greatest argument by Anti Mewtwo correspondants.
Advantages
-He was in Melee
-Mewtwo brings unique aspects into brawl
-He represents a important part of Pokemon
Disadvantages
-He was bottem tier in brawl which brought an anti Mewtwo movement umongst a few smash fans
-He has awkward, floaty movement which make him difficult to balance with other characters.

33)
Falco = 85%
Well it’s Falco, he was in Melee and a lot of people want him in Brawl. The only problem is the lack of seing him in action would give him a clonish appeal though this isn’t saying Sakurai can’t fix that.
Advantages
-Falco is a popular character
-Falco was in Melee
-He has a high PRA in his game or at least has more PRA than other characters.
Disadvantages
-Falco is a clonish character.
-He could be out prioritized by Wolf

34)
Lucario = 81%
Now this one I can here the screaming of multitudes of Lucario supporters which annoys me because Lucario fanboys are the worst. Not saying I don’t like Lucario, but anyways this thread isn't about my opinion but probability.
Advantages
-Lucario is highly supported (even in Japan)
-He is popular
Disadvantages
-The overpopulation rule
-Sakurai’s seemingly biased support for first generation pokes
-A less satisfying role in videogames than other characters (ex. Mewtwo ).

35)
WW Link = 80%
This is Link, but chibitized. It can’t be denied that WW Link has completely replaced young Link in the latest Zelda games. In a way he is his own character. So what is keeping him back?
Advantages
-He has been shown to be a very unique character in his own right
-He was on Sakurai’s poll
-He is almost his own character
Disadvantages
-He is another version of Link

36)
Isaac= 80%
Isaac is the main character of Golden Sun. This series is a nicely popular set of games in Europe but doesn’t seem to have the support in the Americas, however it’s what Sakurai thinks that matters
Advantages
-He is the main character of his series which was popular in some areas
-He is a unique character
-He was in Sakurai’s poll
Disadvantages
-Golden Sun isn’t an immensely popular series like other franchises made by Nintendo

37)
Claus = 80%
What's with claus's great boost? It's funny how one revealed character do so much. Actually it's the quote that put Ness down. It can easily be seen Sakurai is taking a shift to Mother 3 for inspiration as h intended to do since smash 64. With Ness now gone, Claus has littlke opposition from making him playable.
Advantages
-On sakurai's polls
-Sakurai tends to like Mother 3 more than the first two
-He adds to the villain count
Disadvantages
-Mother being a small series may not get as much representation as other "more worthy" series

38)
Micaiah = 69%
With the release of the fire emblem game Goddess of Dawn, Micaiah the star of the first part of the game has a nice chance at being in brawl. Still she comes with her disadvantages
Advantages
-She brings more rep to the FE series
-She is a unique FE star character as she isn’t a sword wielder
-Micaiah brings about another female character
Disadvantages
-She is not a reacurring character and shares her star role
-It can be argued that she is slightly out prioritized by other FE characters

39)
Sukapon = 66%
Now here’s a Japanese only character worth mentioning, and for good reason. Sukapon is from the first ever Nintendo made fighting game.
Advantages
-He is a fighting character made to ……well fight
-He would only respectful to put in a game like this
-He is unique
-He was in both the melee and brawl suggestion polls
Disadvantages
-Disjointed body parts make it difficult to make such a character
-He is a awkward character
-Japanese rule

40)
Bowser Jr. = 65%
He would be a unique addition but the overpopulation rule just reaks here. With the Mario series having 4 definite reps. and 4 side reps the chances of Bowser Jr. being in were considerably low. But now as things are starting to form things are looking up for the young Koopa. The only real thing that seems to be in his way is Geno who was actually on Sakurai's polls.
Advantages
-The paintbrush makes him a unique character
-He has reappeared in many of Mario's latest games as a stong rival and boss.
Disadvantages
-Geno
-Possible overpopulation issues. We can't tell if Sakurai wants a series to have more than four representatives.
 

Homelessvagrant

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41)
Midna = 65%
Here's a fanfave, most of you guys are like why wasn't she on here in the first place? Well it deals with numbers and overpopulation, still I won't deny her role as probably the only other playable character in a link game besides link (at least that's what I believe). So she has her ups. And if her being on wolf link and with that grabber hand we can't deny she'd be an interesting player as well (which is what Sakurai likes).

42)
Ray=63%
Well there has been discussion about this guy making the cut to PC and while I see him being fit for a more assist trophy slot, I can't argue with pro argument for him. He is in a nice set off games though his populrity is less than desiring. But with Sakurai who knows.

43)
K. Rool = 60%
I'm suprised I actually suprised I'm putting this big balooks up here. Well donkey Kong is a seling point for nintendo (though not as big as other franchises) and it would probably be better to have this big overgrown New Orlean steak as a character than three monkeys right? Still I believe an unnoriginal moveset, limited popularity as well as other factors keep K. Rool from reaching the top. frankly I don't think he'll be in (I limit my hopes from 36-45), but it's not me who puts these characters in the game. So keep rooting DK fan boys

44)
Takamaru = 52%
He is a Japanese only character and he yet another sword wielder, the only real thing going for this character is the suggestion on Sakurai’s poll and his slight popularity


45)
Mii = 50%
Really this a coin flip. While Mii’s weren’t on sakurai’s poll, customizable characters were. Plus this game being on the Wii it would be silly for Sakurai to ignore this implementation. Still this is an iffy subject because the question of how Sakurai would implement the character is definitly in the wind. Also it should be noted that the mii avatars make this character a bit less likely



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Third Party Candidates

Here's a new addition to the probable character thread. We can't deny third party characters will be in the game, but at what assumtion can we guess which ones will get in? Obviously these characters deal with buisness affairs and are thus harder to pim point. Still I'll take a knack at it and again I urge the community to right any wrongs I make.

1)
Geno
Geno? yeah the possessed puppet finally appeared on this thread in some form. Things are realy looking well for the possessed puppet as Mario reps keep getting knocked down and the fact that he was in Sakurai's polls better stregthens his cause
Advantages
-On Sakurai's Polls
-The only Third gen character that is from a nintendo series
Disadvantages
-Buisness affairs
-Relationship between Nintendo and square Enix isn't as strong as it could be.

2)
Bomberman
Now this guy is interesting. He's Bomberman and he is made by hudson Soft who is very close to nintendo's development staff. They help work on various Nintendo titles and almost makes this character deserve a role in the game. Now only time will tell.
Advantages
-Hudson Soft is very close to Nintendo
-Brawl is a good form of advertising
Disadvantages
-Buisness Affairs

3)
Pacman
You know misery is coming when this yellow blob arrives. I am truly not a fan of the big pacster and well pacman is from a company well with nintendo and you know how much sakurai loves retro. However when it comes to third party characters everything dwelts to buisness. Sakurai's modest and is unlikely to say no to a third party who asks nicely. And well Naamco has good buisness with Nintendo. Pacman did get into a Mario Kart game if you know.
Advantages
-Good buisness with Naamco
-Brawl is a good form of advertising
-previous Naamco and Nintendo connections (pacman for gamecube/Mario Kart GP2)
Disadvantages
-Buisness Affairs

4)
Simon Belmont
Next on the list we have Simon Belmont though I won't set my hopes high on him. He's another one who was on Sakurai's polls but unfortunately the fact that he comes from the same company as Snake means nothing as he was made from a different developer (keep in mind Hideo Kojima asked for Snake to make an appearance, not Konami).
Advantages
-He was on Sakurai's polls
-He is popular
-began on nintendo system
Disadvantages
-Buisness affairs
-He is not made from the same developer as Snake so he can't get in that way
-Konami and Nintendo are not on the best of terms.

5)
Megaman
So i have conformed to the Megaman hype and now place the blue bomber as the most probable third party character. Unfortunately with the latest Megaman news it seems the blue bomber has lost all hope. However that hasn't stopped fans and it still is possible.....
Advantages
-He was on sakurai's polls (but really this hardly constitutes as an advantage because of the properties of buisness affair [hard to explain])
-Brawl is a good from of advertising
-Nintendo and Capcom are mellow
-started on a nintendo system
Disadvantages
-Buisness Affairs



And that concludes it. If there I anything you dislike, argue your case. These percentiles aren’t set in stone and I can easily change things. However please note, it might be best if you read RBinator's debunking of common arguments. REDUX! before posting arguments as this is a really insightful thread. Thank you and happy posting!
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Ok whether or not you like Geno you have to admit he does have a good chance...
 

Reyairia

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Ok whether or not you like Geno you have to admit he does have a good chance...
I personally doubt it, and I can't see him getting in unless it were because of popularity alone.

As a regular of the Tingle thread, I think you should mention him; He's a reocurring character in the Legend of Zelda series after the triforce three, and may be exempt from this overpopulation rule cause he can get in as a representative of his own series. Plus, Kensuke Tanabe from Nintendo has mentioned that they're working really hard to improve his reputation more so than any other character. I can see him fitting very well in Brawl.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I personally doubt it, and I can't see him getting in unless it were because of popularity alone.

As a regular of the Tingle thread, I think you should mention him; He's a reocurring character in the Legend of Zelda series after the triforce three, and may be exempt from this overpopulation rule cause he can get in as a representative of his own series. Plus, Kensuke Tanabe from Nintendo has mentioned that they're working really hard to improve his reputation more so than any other character. I can see him fitting very well in Brawl.
Wow, I can't believe some people doubt Geno's inclusion...


...well, to be honest I see Tingle as nothing more than an AT...maybe less
 

Reyairia

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Wow, I can't believe some people doubt Geno's inclusion...


...well, to be honest I see Tingle as nothing more than an AT...maybe less
He's unrecognizeable, belongs to a 3rd/2nd party team, the game he appeared in is a bit older now, and he's not even THE main character of it. Unless you fork out the evidence that may suggest he's more than likely in I shall remain a skeptic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to Geno's inclusion, but I don't think he's chances are as high as his fanbase is as big.

He was at least part of the Majora's Mask stage in Melee, which is more than I can say for Geno, and he is the most reocurring character in the Zelda series after the triforce three, which is more than I can say for Midna, and he's got his own franchise where he can get his own moveset, which is more than I can say for a lot of other characters.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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He's unrecognizeable, belongs to a 3rd/2nd party team, the game he appeared in is a bit older now, and he's not even THE main character of it. Unless you fork out the evidence that may suggest he's more than likely in I shall remain a skeptic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to Geno's inclusion, but I don't think he's chances are as high as his fanbase is as big.

He was at least part of the Majora's Mask stage in Melee, which is more than I can say for Geno, and he is the most reocurring character in the Zelda series after the triforce three, which is more than I can say for Midna, and he's got his own fanbase where he can get his own moveset, which is more than I can say for a lot of other characters.
The Geno thread is full of reasons why he should be included...

Plus, as recent updates suggest...number of games and how old they are isn't a factor...especially with Sakurai's apparently love of the retro. Besides, Geno did make a relatively recent cameo in a game.

Sakurai also took personal interest in Geno because the character reminded him of his childhood days and the story of pinnochio.

Plus being one of the highest voted characters on Sakurai's poll doesn't hurt.
 

Homelessvagrant

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The Geno thread is full of reasons why he should be included...

Plus, as recent updates suggest...number of games and how old they are isn't a factor...especially with Sakurai's apparently love of the retro. Besides, Geno did make a relatively recent cameo in a game.

Sakurai also took personal interest in Geno because the character reminded him of his childhood days and the story of pinnochio.

Plus being one of the highest voted characters on Sakurai's poll doesn't hurt.
Alright I'll look through the Geno thread and reconsider. Thanks for the post

Edit:oops I thought someone else had posted after me, sorry for the double post
 

Reyairia

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The Geno thread is full of reasons why he should be included...

Plus, as recent updates suggest...number of games and how old they are isn't a factor...especially with Sakurai's apparently love of the retro. Besides, Geno did make a relatively recent cameo in a game.

Sakurai also took personal interest in Geno because the character reminded him of his childhood days and the story of pinnochio.

Plus being one of the highest voted characters on Sakurai's poll doesn't hurt.
True, but even with his love for retro, all the representatives of retro games he has included have all been the main characters of the games. Geno wasn't the main character of the RPG he was included in, it was Mario.

However, I will check the thread out. Yet, I don't see popularity as such a big factor (pichu as opposed to Dedede in Melee), and yeah, Sakurai may have personal interest, but I doubt that Sakurai is just choosing random characters he likes over characters that have a bit more importance.

(Did I just contradict myself? ****.)
 

PsychoIncarnate

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True, but even with his love for retro, all the representatives of retro games he has included have all been the main characters of the games. Geno wasn't the main character of the RPG he was included in, it was Mario.

However, I will check the thread out. Yet, I don't see popularity as such a big factor (pichu as opposed to Dedede in Melee), and yeah, Sakurai may have personal interest, but I doubt that Sakurai is just choosing random characters he likes over characters that have a bit more importance.

(Did I just contradict myself? ****.)
Geno's importance in Mario RPG was arguably more so than Mario...

However, the game Mario RPG itself had more importance to nintendo as a whole than most games.
 

Reyairia

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Geno's importance in Mario RPG was arguably more so than Mario...

However, the game Mario RPG itself had more importance to nintendo as a whole than most games.
Maybe, but I doubt it and it's still Mario's name in the title and not Geno's.
Unless it doubled Mario's franchise's popularity I don't really see how. I'm failing at being convinced Geno has a high chance in Brawl without depending on popularity alone.
 

Dave the Perspicacious

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Hey

You have used the size argument a couple of times as a disadvantage, although thats rather silly.

Size is not an issue to a characters chances. Do the developers get so little credit, as to be incapable of faithfully scaling a character to a more suitable size for a video game? These guys are really sagacious. They won't have any trouble implementing a character, who has appeared at an awkward size in their respective games, in Brawl.

I can understand though, that a character who was simply a ridiculous size, could be awkward and unfathomable. But for the mentioned characters in your list, that simply isn't the case.

Cheers,

Dave
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Maybe, but I doubt it and it's still Mario's name in the title and not Geno's.
Unless it doubled Mario's franchise's popularity I don't really see how. I'm failing at being convinced Geno has a high chance in Brawl without depending on popularity alone.
I guess it's a you had to be there at the time thing to understand the significance of Mario RPG...Especially Geno, who was always chosen in everybodies party considering the power of Geno whirl dealing 9999 damage.

It's an important game to a majority of gamers in U.S. and Japan and Geno is the most recognizable character from the game.
 

Homelessvagrant

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Psycho Instrate, I looked at the official Geno thread and well it was disheartening. I'll heard is that Geno is cool and he would be a cool character. I can't see Nintendo reaching out To sony for a character with a moderate role in one video game only because he's cool. In that Logic Simon Belmont has a better chance than Geno. And this is why I don't like dealing with 3rd party characters. Part of me wishes i didn't add sonic (but deal with teh [sic] sonic fanboys I will not). I can understand Geno said the charactr reminded him of his childhood but that was only mentioning the character to show that he was listening to the polls. While this can be argued no side would win.

In Conclusion It's not that Geno has to small a chance of being in Brawl but that he has a very sporatic percentile in brawl. In otherwords what probability would he be? Where would he go on this list. These numbers don't come out of my butt you know, this is real facts that we know and real numbers. Keep supporting Geno along with theany other 3rd party rep. And for anything else you don't agree in make sure to make it known.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Psycho Instrate, I looked at the official Geno thread and well it was disheartening. I'll heard is that Geno is cool and he would be a cool character. I can't see Nintendo reaching out To sony for a character with a moderate role in one video game only because he's cool. In that Logic Simon Belmont has a better chance than Geno. And this is why I don't like dealing with 3rd party characters. Part of me wishes i didn't add sonic (but deal with teh [sic] sonic fanboys I will not). I can understand Geno said the charactr reminded him of his childhood but that was only mentioning the character to show that he was listening to the polls. While this can be argued no side would win.

In Conclusion It's not that Geno has to small a chance of being in Brawl but that he has a very sporatic percentile in brawl. In otherwords what probability would he be? Where would he go on this list. These numbers don't come out of my butt you know, this is real facts that we know and real numbers. Keep supporting Geno along with theany other 3rd party rep. And for anything else you don't agree in make sure to make it known.
Sony doesn't own Geno
 

Doggalina

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True, but even with his love for retro, all the representatives of retro games he has included have all been the main characters of the games. Geno wasn't the main character of the RPG he was included in, it was Mario.

However, I will check the thread out. Yet, I don't see popularity as such a big factor (pichu as opposed to Dedede in Melee), and yeah, Sakurai may have personal interest, but I doubt that Sakurai is just choosing random characters he likes over characters that have a bit more importance.

(Did I just contradict myself? ****.)
Popularity doesn't get characters in Smash? Then why have a poll (which Geno placed 2nd on)?
 

LX120

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Just have to say, if anything - America's support for Isaac outweighs Japan. The games even sold almost 3 x more in America, than in Japan. The fact that both games combined sold at least 3.5 - 4 million world wide, should at least warrant some representation. And Sakurai could easily give Little Mac a good move set, especially if he gave great move sets to characters who didn't even fight prior to smash.

And I really like the pictures you used for the characters, and especially the characters you chose for the most part. If this was the Brawl roster, I would be very pleased. I think you should include Advance Wars and Tomato Adventure representation though.
 

Reyairia

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Psycho Instrate, I looked at the official Geno thread and well it was disheartening. I'll heard is that Geno is cool and he would be a cool character. I can't see Nintendo reaching out To SQUARE for a character with a moderate role in one video game only because he's cool. In that Logic Simon Belmont has a better chance than Geno. And this is why I don't like dealing with 3rd party characters. Part of me wishes i didn't add sonic (but deal with teh [sic] sonic fanboys I will not). I can understand Geno said the charactr reminded him of his childhood but that was only mentioning the character to show that he was listening to the polls. While this can be argued no side would win.

In Conclusion It's not that Geno has to small a chance of being in Brawl but that he has a very sporatic percentile in brawl. In otherwords what probability would he be? Where would he go on this list. These numbers don't come out of my butt you know, this is real facts that we know and real numbers. Keep supporting Geno along with theany other 3rd party rep. And for anything else you don't agree in make sure to make it known.
My opinion exactly.

Popularity doesn't get characters in Smash? Then why have a poll (which Geno placed 2nd on)?
I'm not saying it's not important, I'm just saying that popularity ALONE doesn't get a character into Brawl. If James Bond would have gotten in 2nd place instead of Geno would that get him in? I doubt it.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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There also is the fact Mario RPG is considered "The best Mario game of all time"...


and


I guess it's a you had to be there at the time thing to understand the significance of Mario RPG...Especially Geno, who was always chosen in everybodies party considering the power of Geno whirl dealing 9999 damage.

It's an important game to a majority of gamers in U.S. and Japan and Geno is the most recognizable character from the game.
 

Homelessvagrant

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Hey

You have used the size argument a couple of times as a disadvantage, although thats rather silly.

Size is not an issue to a characters chances. Do the developers get so little credit, as to be incapable of faithfully scaling a character to a more suitable size for a video game? These guys are really sagacious. They won't have any trouble implementing a character, who has appeared at an awkward size in their respective games, in Brawl.

I can understand though, that a character who was simply a ridiculous size, could be awkward and unfathomable. But for the mentioned characters in your list, that simply isn't the case.

Cheers,

Dave

I completely agree with the size argument, but the issue of it being selected as a disadvantage is completely understandable. The players themselves didn't get in their slots becuse of their size. They got their b/c of a combination of weaknessess and strengths. If I had that much of a lack of faith in the developers abilities tha n they would not have even been on the list.

As select characters Ridley and Caot. olimar I mention the weakness as hurdles for the game developers to have to pass over whether small or grand. It is only deemable that the developers could implement any of the characters on this list for any reason. The weakness is only to represent that which the developers look upon as reasons not to implement such character as whether to stay true smash or true to the franchise. In that then It can only be reconized that Size is therefore a very viable argument however paltry it may be.
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Psycho Instate from what I've heard and Know, Sony owns characters Geno and Mallow. Therefore I will have to ask for proof whether from another two agreeing board members or an actual document. I'm sorry for any inconvenience and thank you.
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In all truth LX120, I completely forgot Advanced wars when I made this list. I'll look over andy and consider him. However Demiru was a considered candidate and he fell short I'm afraid around in the 50's around Waluigi and Midna. For the pictures feel free to use them for your signature. If you have a character on the list you want a pic for just ask me

Of course you can make your own sig by clicking the homeless man. It's honestly the best poster creator ever (I made the square pics there 90 by 90)
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Psycho Instate from what I've heard and Know, Sony owns characters Geno and Mallow. Therefore I will have to ask for proof whether from another two agreeing board members or an actual document. I'm sorry for any inconvenience and thank you.
Square-Enix owns Geno...


He is also the only of the third party characters that has intereacted with Mario and has only been on Nintendo systems
 

Homelessvagrant

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oh yeah, I'm sorry (knock on wood). I knew square soft owned it but was thinking of final fantasy (which more than often appears on Sony Consoles) please edit the word Sony with Square Enix
 

Reyairia

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There also is the fact Mario RPG is considered "The best Mario game of all time"...


and


I guess it's a you had to be there at the time thing to understand the significance of Mario RPG...Especially Geno, who was always chosen in everybodies party considering the power of Geno whirl dealing 9999 damage.

It's an important game to a majority of gamers in U.S. and Japan and Geno is the most recognizable character from the game.
- Maybe, but it was still only a hand-held game, and it isn't THE Mario game. If Mario RPG was a nonhand-held game I think I may believe you more on it's importance.

- I don't see how having a high attack does much. I overly enjoyed using Vivian in Paper Mario 2 and I think she was a great fighter. Does that heighten her chances in Brawl? I find it doubtful.

- Geno isn't the most recognizeable character from Mario RPG, Mario is. I don't think being recognizeable in a game is too important (Goombella was one of the most recognizeable characters in PM2), but being recognizeable in the series as a whole. Despite that I've only recently gotten into serious gaming, I recognize Bowser jr., Ridley (despite not playing a Metroid video game yet) and Meta-Knight (only playing one kirby game where he was not included) and several Final fantasy and Kingdom Hearts characters. Until I came to these forums I had clearly no clue who Geno was.
 

xianfeng

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Please explain. (about the Black knight that is)
Well the Black Knight is just some random villain and antagonist from FE9 and FE10, An excuse for a sub-plot. Not that I don't like him. Micaiah is a main character and therefore more important you see.

Geno's importance in Mario RPG was arguably more so than Mario...
No that is wrong, 100% false. It's a MARIO game, MARIO is the MAIN character, the story revolves around MARIO, Geno is nothing but a SIDEKICK.

However, the game Mario RPG itself had more importance to nintendo as a whole than most games.
Not really.

and Geno is the most recognizable character from the game.
Totally way more recognisable than Mario, Peach, Bowser and Toad.

There also is the fact Mario RPG is considered "The best Mario game of all time"...
So are Super Mario World, Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario 64. What's you point?
 

SiD

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But Mario was already in the game, so Geno was next in recognizablitty.

And it was for Super Nintendo, as in non-handheld.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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- Maybe, but it was still only a hand-held game, and it isn't THE Mario game. If Mario RPG was a nonhand-held game I think I may believe you more on it's importance.

- I don't see how having a high attack does much. I overly enjoyed using Vivian in Paper Mario 2 and I think she was a great fighter. Does that heighten her chances in Brawl? I find it doubtful.

- Geno isn't the most recognizeable character from Mario RPG, Mario is. I don't think being recognizeable in a game is too important (Goombella was one of the most recognizeable characters in PM2), but being recognizeable in the series as a whole. Despite that I've only recently gotten into serious gaming, I recognize Bowser jr., Ridley (despite not playing a Metroid video game yet) and Meta-Knight (only playing one kirby game where he was not included) and several Final fantasy and Kingdom Hearts characters. Until I came to these forums I had clearly no clue who Geno was.
Mario RPG isn't a series since there is only 1 game...and it wasn't hand held, it was on the Super Nintendo...

and yes, Geno WAS the most recognizable character from the game. Mario was of course already known, but ask ANYBODY who their favorite character was from that game and a majority of them will say Geno.
 

Dave the Perspicacious

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I completely agree with the size argument, but the issue of it being selected as a disadvantage is completely understandable. The players themselves didn't get in their slots becuse of their size. They got their b/c of a combination of weaknessess and strengths. If I had that much of a lack of faith in the developers abilities tha n they would not have even been on the list.

As select characters Ridley and Caot. olimar I mention the weakness as hurdles for the game developers to have to pass over whether small or grand. It is only deemable that the developers could implement any of the characters on this list for any reason. The weakness is only to represent that which the developers look upon as reasons not to implement such character as whether to stay true smash or true to the franchise. In that then It can only be reconized that Size is therefore a very viable argument however paltry it may be.
I can understand where you are coming from, but that does not neccesarily make it an issue against the characters chances/probability in anyway, shape or form. It would in that case, be more veracious to say that due to the size, time would be required to appropriately resize the character, if they deemed them neccessary to the playable roster.

If that were the case for such an argument, you would have to list all the reasons for difficluties for including any character, no matter how paltry, right down to the difficulties of animating clothing, weapons etc. because they all fall into the same category of difficulty in implementing a character, and therefore are all reasons against including said character.

In the case of Ridley, they have been shown to stay true to the franchise in the opening of Melee, have they not? Which could arguably hint at the fact, that they have already spent the time previously in thinking about the size issue, which from the start of the Metroid series was not an issue. <- I'm aware this isn't what you are arguing, I threw it in for laughs and giggles.

Cheers,

Dave
 

SiD

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So Geno is more recognisable than Peach, Bowser and Toad? Most people who aren't on here or gamefaqs don't know who Geno is.
Again, Bowser and Peach are already in the game, and Toad is generic and boring.

And I think your missing the point, from specifically only that particular game, Geno is the most recognizable. Ask anyone who played the game, and the few that say Mario will be outweighed by those that say Geno, as Geno's role was at least as important as Mario's in that particular game.
 

xianfeng

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No it wasn't.
Did you start the game with him? No
Was his name in the Title? No
Was he in the game all throughout it? No
Was he the most important character plotwise? No but he was very important
Just because he was popular doesn't mean jack, Lyn was also popular and Deoxys and Munchlax.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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No it wasn't.
Did you start the game with him? No
Was his name in the Title? No
Was he in the game all throughout it? No
Was he the most important character plotwise? No but he was very important
Just because he was popular doesn't mean jack, Lyn was also popular and Deoxys and Munchlax.
Of course his name wasn't in the title, it was in the MARIO series. And a character starting at the beggining doesn't mean they are the most important...of ANY story



Also, NONE of them got to Geno's level though or were mentioned by Sakurai...

None of them had Geno's importance.
 

SiD

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No it wasn't.
Did you start the game with him? No
Was his name in the Title? No
Was he in the game all throughout it? No
Was he the most important character plotwise? No but he was very important
Just because he was popular doesn't mean jack, Lyn was also popular and Deoxys and Munchlax.
He was the most important character plotwise, except for Mario, who again is already in Brawl.

And popularity does mean alot, he is way more popular than Lyn or Deoxys, he was 2nd on the poll.

Look at it this way, since Luigi isn't based off of Mansion in 64 or Melee:

Did you start with him? Only in 2 player.
Was his name in the title? NOt really.
Was he in all througout? Only in 2 player.
Was he the most important char? No.

But he's in because he is still popular and is still important to the series, as Geno is important to the Mario RPG series.
 

Homelessvagrant

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Alright Xfiang I understand your point and will edit the Micaiah part as sson as possible.

Dave your point is also considerably undrerstandable and I enjoyed your thoughts. I will change that point as well.

For some reason the editing isn't working right so I may not edit these as soon as I'd like
 

Dave the Perspicacious

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Alright Xfiang I understand your point and will edit the Micaiah part as sson as possible.

Dave your point is also considerably undrerstandable and I enjoyed your thoughts. I will change that point as well.

For some reason the editing isn't working right so I may not edit these as soon as I'd like
I usually find if quick edit doesn't work, if you go into advanced edit, it works. Not sure if that is the case though ^_^

Dave
 

Reyairia

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Mario RPG isn't a series since there is only 1 game...and it wasn't hand held, it was on the Super Nintendo...

and yes, Geno WAS the most recognizable character from the game. Mario was of course already known, but ask ANYBODY who their favorite character was from that game and a majority of them will say Geno.
-headdesk- Misinformed again! Still, the game is older than Ocarina of Time. Why would Geno not get a spot in Melee if he were so important?

Yes, but it still is only ONE game. I liked Vivian more than Mario in PM2, but I don't think her chances are any higher.

Again, Bowser and Peach are already in the game, and Toad is generic and boring.

And I think your missing the point, from specifically only that particular game, Geno is the most recognizable. Ask anyone who played the game, and the few that say Mario will be outweighed by those that say Geno, as Geno's role was at least as important as Mario's in that particular game.
Maybe Bowser and Peach have, but not Bowser Jr. or Toad. I agree that Toad is generic, but in the retro games he was his own character, and even if Sakurai loves retro look what happened to him.

So on and so forth about popularity, for a character to be in Brawl it seems that they have to be either recognizeable even if one hasn't played the game (I can recognize Bowser Jr even if I haven't played Mario sunshine and I can recognize Birdo also very well) aka: reocurring or 2. Be the main character of their own franchise. Geno is neither, I couldn't recognize him.

Also, NONE of them got to Geno's level though or were mentioned by Sakurai...

None of them had Geno's importance.
Sakurai may have mentioned him only out of a response to the polls.
And Deoxys was not only a legendary pokemon in the games, but it had it's own movie as well from what I hear.
 

SiD

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I think your missing the point, though. He obviously is **** well recognizable, scoring on the polls only lower than Dedede. Therefore, His chances are extremely high.

I mean look at Roy, nobody knew who the hell he was. NA had never even heard of FE at the time, and Roy's game wasn't even out in Japan.
 
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