need some help beating my brother...

teeman92 · May 5, 2007

ok he picks,marth,luigi,shiek(i wanna kill her),link,mario,i pick fox all the time

marth:he plays defensivly, rolls alot,very quick
luigi:he conuters alot,which kills me
shiek:he annoy the $@#@ outta me,he down tilts and uses smash up over and over
link:well...i dunno anything about him
mario:he like throwing me around

theres nothing i can do,this is stupid,my lil bro is beating me like im nothing, any hints?

(wavedashing dont help here folks)

teeman92 · May 5, 2007

teeman92 said:
ok he picks,marth,luigi,shiek(i wanna kill her),link,mario,i pick fox all the time

marth:he plays defensivly, rolls alot,very quick
luigi:he conuters alot,which kills me
shiek:he annoy the $@#@ outta me,he down tilts and uses smash up over and over
link:well...i dunno anything about him
mario:he like throwing me around

theres nothing i can do,this is stupid,my lil bro is beating me like im nothing, any hints? (wavedashing dont help here folks)

btw, he dont know nothing about wavedashing,he says its useless

SpruceTengu · May 5, 2007

As little as i know about smash, I'd have to say the most honest approach would be to practice with him or others. Wavedashing -would- help against people who smash -all- the time, though I'm speaking from general experience and not specific instances. The problem with smash-heavy players is that they can develop really good timing, waiting for you to charge or otherwise, and are often even better at what they do from use of the C-stick. I'd try to develop good or -better- timing with the wavedash, standing dodge, shieldgrab, or simply roll to counter his constant smash attacks. Also, if he seems to be waiting for you to charge, then simply make sue of your long ranged attacks to pester him into approaching. So, in general, i'd say the tac to use is to let him use his smash attacks, but since they're slow (shiek excluded...) use something to absorb or dismiss the hit, so you can unload on him afterward, making use of the delay most characters experience after a smash attack. In my experience standing dodges and wavedashing work the best for this, they kind of give people a shock, especially when they haven't seen them before. I'd give that a shot. Most of all, though, don't let yourself be shaken up by losing, and keep trying. Remember that an opponent who defeats you is nothing but a good chance for you to improve. Would it be all the more fun if you -always- beat your brother?

teeman92 · May 5, 2007

er,yeah,sometime my fingers spaz up when i try to roll or smash,its annoying,how do i stop that?

All_Characters · May 5, 2007

ive always found that if someone uses an attack in the same situation all the time, sheild grabbing/ sidestep-attack is very useful. Another handy solution would be to use your range (judging by ur picture ur a fox). try to run in, sidestep, then attack.

It might not work in your case, but it works really well for me.

angelsandairwaveslee · May 5, 2007

just use C STICK!

Zane Fleia · May 5, 2007

From my best guess, this is just a standard "he has more playing experience than you" case. My advice is just keep practicing. With practice comes timing and knowledge of the game. Eventually, you'll get to the same level as him. And if not, pick up Sheik. ^_^
Fine, fine, joking...

Superstar · May 5, 2007

Try fakeouts. Rush at him, then wavedash backwards to make him miss. Punish his lag afterwards. Also use your lasers to camp and make him come to you. Sidesteps work fine as well.

Dylan_Tnga · May 5, 2007

teeman92 said:
marth:he plays defensivly, rolls alot,very quick

A defensive marth doesn't work.. Marth has to keep his spacing tight and that sword swinging. If hes ROLLING with MARTH than I suggest you take Captain Falcon and SHFFL knees at him like theres no tomorrow.

luigi:he conuters alot,which kills me

So don't get hit by it :S if he does somethign alot that means he's predictable which means he lacks mindgames. Try to bait him into doing that move that kills you, get him to miss then punish, best thing to do vs predictable players... they wont BE confused because they just follow a set pattern made up in their mind... so you can take advantage of his repetitiveness.

shiek:he annoy the $@#@ outta me,he down tilts and uses smash up over and over

Up smash???? How are you getting hit by that its not the greatest move ever. Shiek is a deadly opponent in almost anyones hands, but ya Im a -real- shiek main so just thank god hes not doing this to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLpgM-Pkn8s

link:well...i dunno anything about him

Link sucks. Pick shiek, chainthrow to over 100% then fair him off the edge then edgeguard, gg link sucks. Link SUCKS.

mario:he like throwing me around

Wow, I'm shocked! he uses throws! OMFG how can you ever... jeez man don't get grabbed then its not like mario has a big grab range, if he doesnt wavedash with mario than he sucks, there's no excuse not to be able to take a non wavedashing mario down, its EVERYTHING in his spacing game.

: (wavedashing dont help here folks)

Realize that wavedashing is just a form of movement, the wavedash isn't an automatic ''OMG IM SO PRO!!1'' move, it takes time to learn how to use it and I highly suggest you do because if you never learn to wavedash in the right situations chances are you will be forever a noob.

Hope I gave you some harsh but fair advice, and good luck man, kick your brothers face. :laugh:

offcell · May 5, 2007

Marth: Dash JCgrab > uthrow > uair .. tech chase and try to keep him in the air until he's KO'd. wash, rinse, repeat. But don't get too repeptitive or he'll know what to do about it. Just make your movements unpredictable then go in for the grab. If he's sidestepping your grabs, try a different approach. Run at him and then shield right in front of his grab range so you don't get grabbed, then attack from there. (or dash grab)

Luigi: Counters a lot? Never really fought Luigi with Fox before, so I can't help you here. He's floaty so uair or usmash kills would work at around 80-90+% if he doesn't DI.

Sheik: If you can, shine >wavedash >grab or usmash. If you wd out of the shine quick enough, you'll catch up to the Sheik before she can shield. uthrow > uairs are Fox's thing so you can use that here too. As for her dtilts, just DI left or right as soon as you see it happen and you should (if your percentage isn't too low) move too far away for her to usmash or fair, hopefully.

Link: Never really fought a Link that much with Fox. Use shines and wavedash out of them towards the direction he's flying in. Attack or grab from there since he doesn't fall to the ground after Fox shines.

Mario: sidestep to avoid his grab.

edit: Dylan, he says he picks Fox all thet ime. Try to give advice with him using Fox. Nice tips though

SpruceTengu · May 6, 2007

Teeman, regarding your fingers-spazzing-out problem, its one im sure quite a few people have had (myself included) but its certainly no great problem. Its usually a mental more than a physical error; in that you let the tension of the game get to you. Muscles cant work as fast under stress, nor can your mind in properly making/delivering decisions and actions to those muscles. I'd reccomend doing your best just to stay calm, and not let your brother get to you. Let him taunt his heart away; but stay as imperturbable as you can, just let it all go, and dont try to outcompete or outfight. Just do your best, and know that that is just fine; you'll find yourself developing healthy confidence over arrogance, and a calm demeanor in game. This will keep your wits about you; and with a better attitude you wont get so nervous. More technically speaking, breathing exercises (I.E. in through the nose, out through the mouth) really help to calm one's nerves. But most of all? Like i said, -practice-. The more you play with your brother the more comfortable you'll get with him. Best of luck!
-Spruce

teeman92 · May 6, 2007

i wish i can show us playing but,no camarra

Thino · May 6, 2007

Dylan_Tnga said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLpgM-Pkn8s

Link sucks. Pick shiek, chainthrow to over 100% then fair him off the edge then edgeguard, gg link sucks. Link SUCKS.

calm down , its SSBM

KevinM · May 6, 2007

Yea i know calm down bro, did link touch you when you were little :chuckle:

If your facing your bro and he's kind of a n00b he's just going to have easy to recognize and punish manuvers..

You can do one of two things

1. Find the patterns and punish them
2. Create an equally cheap set maneuver and do it...

I recommend doing the first if you hope to get any kind of good at this game.

strider43 · May 6, 2007

pick falco next time O.o

Avenger7x · May 6, 2007

Man if your bro does the same things everytime then just punish him by watching his patterns and reacting accordingly. If he uses a lot of up smashes with shiek then you know what's gonna happen when he picks sheik, etc.

Since you know his game so much and how he kills you, then change up your style because your playing must be very predictable to him. I don't even think it would matter If you used crazy advanced techs (although it would improve your game regardless), just change up your stlye and I think you will stomp him.

Hope that helps and good luck

teeman92 · May 6, 2007

strider43 said:
pick falco next time O.o

nah,he's too slow for my style,btw what is SFFLing,L-cancel--come on im new at these new moves

KevinM · May 6, 2007

Falco is to slow for you?!??

Dude go read up on things

Black Waltz · May 6, 2007

All this time we've been assuming that he knew all the advanced techs, but from this statement right here:

nah,he's too slow for my style,btw what is SFFLing,L-cancel--come on im new at these new moves

we can now begin to help him more efficiently
PS: if you think falco is slow, then bowser must not move at all for you.

gcboy · May 6, 2007

If you dont wanna take time to learn wavedashing and shffling i have an alternative for you. every time your brother wins (he's your little brother, right) punch him. not hard enough to make him cry or anything but hard enough for him to remember it and not like it. he wins, punch him, he wins, punch him. after a while, he'll be trained into thinking that winning isn't that good and will thus sd himself often giving you the victory every time. those're mind games if i'm not mistaken lol

)

Oskurito · May 6, 2007

gcboy said:
If you dont wanna take time to learn wavedashing and shffling i have an alternative for you. every time your brother wins (he's your little brother, right) punch him. not hard enough to make him cry or anything but hard enough for him to remember it and not like it. he wins, punch him, he wins, punch him. after a while, he'll be trained into thinking that winning isn't that good and will thus sd himself often giving you the victory every time. those're mind games if i'm not mistaken lol )

XD!!!

teeman92 said:
nah,he's too slow for my style,btw what is SFFLing,L-cancel--come on im new at these new moves

WTF. Read cunnin kitsune's guide an you'll kicking his *** in no time here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=35050

Silhouette · May 7, 2007

your brother plays 5 characters and u play one? he probably knows youre moves and strategies better than u do. i would recomend learning sheik when he isnt arround and surprising him. sheik is a good counter for every character he plays and shes not nearly as difficult to master as fox is, and if u do read cunningkitsunes guide then id scroll down to character specific first thing and read up on his 5

keep a good mindset-think happy thoughts. (your fingers wont spaz-out as mutch if u r calm)

and i guess hitting him every once in a while wouldnt hurt (you)

strider43 · May 8, 2007

teeman92 said:
nah,he's too slow for my style,btw what is SFFLing,L-cancel--come on im new at these new moves

falco's speed
Don't be such a stuck up brat, if you want to win stop picking the same character and try something new :cool:

Rapid_Assassin · May 8, 2007

teeman92 said:
nah,he's too slow for my style,btw what is SFFLing,L-cancel--come on im new at these new moves

That can explain why you think Falco is too slow. I could probably play Zelda faster than your Falco, seeing as I know what advanced techniques are. Learn advanced techniques. Wavedashing will help your game if you use it well. It won't make you amazing at first, you have to learn how to utilize it well. Know the spacing on your attacks, and that'll help you a lot.

Also, seeing how you like to describe his strategy, use that against him. He rolls a lot? Use Jigglypuff, and rest him out of rolls. He likes to use throws? Well, space better against him, roll away, wavedash, dashdance, jump, dodge, or roll depending on the situation and your character. He likes to dtilt a lot? Play Peach and unleash the power of her dsmash: a powerful weapon that destroys dtilt spammy characters. (lol does he also play GW?) If you are able to observe him well enough to know what his strategy is, time to act on it. You don't even have to learn a new character to do simple setups to get him to miss an attack and punish the lag on it. Every character has an attack that could be used to destroy a predictable player. Use it.

TrageÐy ® · May 8, 2007

For all the characters you listed, use a bit of falco, reflect and pistol, get him in the air, and smack the @*%& outta him. ^^

Eternal phoenix Fire · May 8, 2007

Thino said:
calm down , its SSBM

I laughed so hard after reading that.Thank you for bring up that repressed event. ; )

Might I make a few reccomendations?

I reccomend watching all of these videos and learn how to develop these techniques in battle

Character Specific section

@ Dylan:

Lol

Aiko · May 8, 2007

looking at his first post (and the ones that follow) its pretty clear he doesn't know much about the advanced scene. Hes aware of wavedashing, but thats because its probably the most well known advanced technique to non-competitive players, and I mean well known in terms of actual name. Half of n00bs wont even know what it does, just know what its called.

my advice, start practising advanced techs by yourself, watch tutorial and match vids if you truly want to get better. If you just want to beat your brother, dont play fox. I take it you picked fox because you've read up that hes one of the best characters in the game. Don't let this fool you. He is only one of the best in competitive play. If you play him in a casual game, his fastfalling will actually make him disadvantageous. You should pick another character that is more suited to casual play, like ganondorf, roy, mario etc

TrageÐy ® · May 8, 2007

gcboy said:
If you dont wanna take time to learn wavedashing and shffling i have an alternative for you. every time your brother wins (he's your little brother, right) punch him. not hard enough to make him cry or anything but hard enough for him to remember it and not like it. he wins, punch him, he wins, punch him. after a while, he'll be trained into thinking that winning isn't that good and will thus sd himself often giving you the victory every time. those're mind games if i'm not mistaken lol )

LOL
ROFLMAO
XDD

Just play teh mind games with him, you'll eventually create a PsychoPath >_< :smiliegor:

Oskurito · May 8, 2007

He doesn't need to try a new character, fox is a character that can beat any character if played good. Just check out the guides for fox at the fox forum

Aiko · May 8, 2007

i agree fox can beat any character if played well, but the fact that he plays without advanced techniques shows that he wont be able to utilise fox's strong points. You need to remember how casual players play, and thats generally less aerials and more smashes and rolls. at casual level, roy and ganondorf have enough power to give trouble to predictable players.

with casual play, the TC wont utilise foxes speed, shine combos/spikes. the best he can achieve, at his level of play, is upsmash and uair (up aerials). If you insist on playing fox, use these moves as much as possible, especially for the kill. Question to TC, do you play with items and on any level? If so its more reason to use roy/marth, ganondorf, mario etc

Oskurito · May 8, 2007

True, then Up throw to uair should solve most of his problems

Aiko · May 8, 2007

Oskurito said:
True, then Up throw to uair should solve most of his problems

definitely. I would reccommend learning to shield grab since its a very easy and effective technique. then up throw to up air or upsmash on fast fallers.

teeman92 · May 10, 2007

Oskurito said:
True, then Up throw to uair should solve most of his problems

uh,yeah i do that most the time...im pwning him badly.....for now :laugh:

Oskurito · May 11, 2007

OK then If you become interested on being a pretty good fox then you can check out cuning kitsune's guide ^^

the CRAB · May 11, 2007

just goin from my personal experience (my little brother used to rock me back in the day, too), i was using wavedash and not much else until i found out about advanced techniques. the first ones that i learned (which paved the way for all the rest), were fastfalling, L-cancelling, shield grabbing, crouch cancelling, and (also a fox/falco player), jump cancelling the shine. those are what helped me personally, but after you read the advanced techniques guide, just go into practice mode and screw around with 'em. it takes time, man, but you've got it in ya.

Oskurito · May 11, 2007

It takes time, practice, patient and dedication to be a good fox player

v3x? · May 11, 2007

But **** me its worth it - if you want inspiration. Go search for lunin, zelgadis, kens fox (only for mindgame perposes tbh) plus many other great players.... But lunin is my god tbh ^^

teeman92 · May 19, 2007

strider43 said:
falco's speed
Don't be such a stuck up brat, if you want to win stop picking the same character and try something new

whoa,im not that good, it impossible to wavedash with fox

Oskurito · May 19, 2007

Practice it, and you'll see that with time it becomes easier

Rapid_Assassin · May 20, 2007

teeman92 said:
whoa,im not that good, it impossible to wavedash with fox

It's definitely possible to wavedash with Fox. If that's all you know how to do with him, you won't be good either. (look at my fox, it sucks..)

need some help beating my brother...

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