Ledge Canceled Teleport

every mewtwo definately has experienced this before, but it has never been discussed

when hanging off a ledge, letting go and doing an upward diagonal teleport towards the ledge may result in a significantly shortened teleport.

mewtwo will land on the stage with only few frames of lag as if mewtwo was doing a shorthop teleport

it is as if mewtwo hit the wall and got his teleport canceled, but his momentum manages to bring him up onto the stage with minimal lag.

in effect, this Ledge canceled teleport is faster than:

- mewtwo's ledgehop waveland
- airdodge to stage
- getup whether below or over 100%


Discuss

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edit:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFDXv9NBxJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjsYDVpruwg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWBhyoVjWQE

Great tactic to get back and counter an edgeguard?...

are you talking about when mewtwo teleports into the ledge, and kinda pushes up against it and just barely makes it back on stage?

if you are, i think it's a bit unreliable and a little too easy to punish for an effective ledge tactic

yes thats what im talking about quak.

well ive experimented a little bit today
it turns out, if you are hugging the wall, it pushes you higher

like all 'tecniques', they need mastering.
and pracitice was never really something that held us back right? =]


--

the thing is.... the delay is really short and NOT dependent on mewtwo's percentages.
the only problem is the execution.

--

i have yet to find a way to do it with a high probability of success.
if you have time, try experiment and come up with a way

I like this. Execution shouldn't be a big problem cuz I'm willing to bet pretty much every good Mewtwo player here has better execution already then a lot of other players.

My main worry is that while it's different, it's not all that different. We come back to the "all characters have one move solutions to Mewtwo", and I doubt that this is different enough to confuse the opponent readily. Best case scenario, you get back on stage, they are confused as holy hell, worst case scenario is they read you, the rest of the scenarios consist of them throwing what they planned and hitting you anyways.

it could still have potentials for edgeguard purposes

fake edgehog, return to stage, to bthrow

for offensive purposes, it should be just as effective as the "ledgehop waveland" which other characters use.

predictability shouldnt be too huge of a problem as mewtwo already has a good amount of options for recovering. in truth, mewtwo's ledgehop to horizontal teleports are becoming very predictable anyways. opponents even pick up habits of charging a smash in the opposite direction when edgeguarding mewtwos. i suppose to counter this scenario, instead of using mewtwo's other weird "get back to stage" options, ledge canceled teleports would be a favorable.

edit:

anyone have AR to provide frame data for this?

For the record, my edge recovering mixups consist of <100% normal wakeup, <100% wakeup attack, <100% wakeup roll, waveland, teleport to ledge Taj style, teleport to ledge Firefox stall style, horizontal teleport, teleport upwards fastfall, dj airdodge land forward on stage, dj airdodge forward land on edge, let go to up air.

Yeah it's confusing >_> I suppose I could use something else, I'll give it a shot.

yeah, with all the alternatives that are easily and very reliably done, im not sure if this is worth exploring, but go for it, everyone said that the mewtwo pillar isn't practical, but i seem to make it work for me with shield piercing.

And also, what's goin on with the info regarding my guide? Is it almost done? Kinda curious on what it's even about...

dont get me wrong..

everyone has the usual options for recovering...
(getup, getupattack, ledgejump, ledgehop, ledgehop waveland, ledgeroll)

just as "backward ledgehop to sweetspotted teleport" was kinda pure flash, this ledge canceled teleport is just a small trick to add to mewtwo's game

there are lots of tricks that mewtwo has that are unnessesary.

but the extra flash wont hurt =]

please keep the discussions with this perspective.

Nice find no doubt about it, but it'll be real hard to pull off without getting mildly, if not severely punished against anyone who has experience vs Mewtwo. The minimal lag is a plus, so maybe you can throw in an extra Teleport for some more distance after you land. Whenever I get to play I'll see how it goes, hopefully it'll be effective enough to keep me safe.

execution remains as a heavy problem

to be boring calculative,

if representing teleport's 18 directions as:
E, NEE, NE, NNE, N, NNW, NW, NWW, W, SWW, SW, SSW, S, SSE, SE, and SEE

using NEE/NWW teleport when mewtwo is at a 45degree angle below stage seems to give a high high success rate, however mewtwo gets the stumble as if he did a horizontal teleport too close to the surface.

i havnt figured out the best way to do it so that mewtwo gets the ideal minimal lag.

wait wait wait, are you talking about just making it back only as far as grabbing the ledge? Cause that's easy! Especially on FD going completely 'north' when ur under the lip of the stage, and a little to the left. Bah text is confusing, TIME FOR PAINT!



Most other Stages



As you can see from my masterpieces, that's how it's usually done, BUT obviously they're not accurate to the pixel, so if it doesn't work the first time, at least you know the ballpark.



(just cause my photobucket account was open )

huh??? no not just grabbing the ledge.............. where did you get THAT idea.
.... if its too hard to understand.... maybe ill make a video dumie

yeah that might help, cause i thought u were talking about like running into the stage wall, which stops ur teleport, then that little boost of momentum letting you barely grasp the edge

ur saying this'll get you back on ur feet?

lol a video of it, yay!

I've never experienced this.
Ledge cancel tele? Meaning landing on the stage, with less lag?

Oh wait, no, just a really short tele that would just air land to cancel landing tele lag.

Sorry, I've never experienced a short tele outside of grabbing ledge.

yes quak yes. when i do the hug, i occasionally get a nicely "air canceled" teleport

edit:

we need more terms here..

just as theres missle cancel, can our shteleport have a name? theres a clear difference between shteleport and "aircanceld" teleport

and also, are we all ok with calling this ledgecanceled teleport?

****, my artwork goes unappreciated

get a quick vid up, i don't think i've seen it yet, or at least don't recognize what it looks like

I FOUND A ZERO TO DEATH WITH MEWTWO! BWHAHAHAHA! and none of you will see it till my vid comes out! (it's not a true zero to death, but if the opponent does DI away the entire time, then it is)

and call it what you want man, lets see the vid though!

I'm confused now.

air cancel, would be landing without the Tele hitting the ground so in essence, ending the Tele in the AIR.

shtele, would be the same thing. By short hopping it first.

airo, about this ledge cancled tele. I have already tried useing this in some of my battles and I just don't think that it has the speed. It can work once and awhile if your opponent is really far away from the edge, however if they are close or medium distance woudn't the resulting lag just give them a free hit? idk.

he means that you drop off the ledge and teleport, but you seem to brush the edge while invisible, making you move less far onto the stage than usual. (I think)

St. Viers: Yes

Tonji: everything that is predictable is a hazard. eg( shteleport is overated)

DelxDoom: well shteleport and aircanceled teleport are different.

shteleport is a common way for mewtwo to move around the ground, chase, surprise, approach, etc. we all have a very clear image of teleport and how it extends onto mewtwo's horizontal movement patterns.

the term "aircancled teleport" includes shteleport and helps describe all the other cases. eg bair to aircanceled teleport, aircanceled teleport between platforms, etc.

Quak: i doubt your 0-death combo.
If assuming the enemy has a linear DI and predictable recovery, then i ALSO have many 0-death combos. but thats not the case ever.

if there are any TRUE 0-death combos, i would asume that taj found them already.

as for the video, please give me time, im a lazy + busy person.

yeah, i know, a boy can dream though

it still looks cool, and i also stated that it's not a true zero to death though

Well perhaps it's just me but when I play my friend (who mains fox) I get absolutly destoryed at the edge T.T m2's ledge game is absolutly terrible against a good/person who has experience playing m2. There is just absolutly nothing that works. I have tried ledge cancled tele in the past and it's just to slow. Airo I toatly agree with you the SH tele is definalty overrated, if the stupid camera didn't move with you it' would be less predictable however that's not the case.

OK I have a new idea that I was emplying with my friend last night. OK when you are recovering from the stage in this type of tragectory (please see diagram 1A)

I tried doing something differn't. Insted of tele horizontally and try and get on the stage I teled straight down. Suprizingly the sweet spot is really easy to hit, even if your too close m2 will just sweet spot. (Please se diagram 1B) Now here comes the best part. The camera will also follow M2's tele down, however becasue you are so close to the stage it will appear that you are going to tele to the stage not the ledge. (Please see Diagram 1C)



Diagram 1A (enemy is X)
M2
-
-
-
-



__X________Stage___________



Diagram 2B (enemy X seeing the camera move performs a move)
*Also note that sweet spotting the ledge while directly above is EXTREAMLY EASY you will never drop below beaseu for some reason you will always catch the ledge in mid tele regardless of how much further would would technically go* **However this doesn't mean that you can be like an inch away and try it, then you would die......sadly**

M2
l
l
l
__X_________Stage_________



Diagram 1C (With enemy X in resulting LAG you can now safly decide your next course of action)


_____X______Stage_________
M2

Now if the enemy runs the other way to the middle of the stage to try and catch you, you can simply use a regular quck ledge recovery.

If they move forward twards the ledge do a quck ledge hopped tele behind them.


If they don't do anything at all (which is highly unlikely) procead to doing what you think is best

If they stay in the same position and try any type of high LAG move you can punish them with an attack off of the ledge.

OK I just put on my fire retardent suit and am prepared to get flamed and try and protect my idea at the same time.
(Hope you like my diagrams, ok well the edit was trying to fix the diagrams because they really didn't come out the way they looked when I was typing them. T.T)

ledge canceled teleport is not laggy, which is why it is worth discussing.
the only major problem right now is its execution.

and.... as for vertical sweetspots, you will never find yourself the opportunity to use it.
its too close to the edge. mewtwo will be intercepted by an aerial.

also, the sweetspot range isnt as large as you explained. ._."
mewtwo's teleport easily misses the sweetspot and go through the stage.

also, if you are grabbing the ledge and your opponent is moving towards you, dont ledge hop and attempt a teleport. ledgehop is too slow and mewtwo will be punished.

Airo you find that the sweet spot is too small?? I have never experienced that problem at all, in fact I find it almost too easy. Hmm Perhaps I should do some more testing. Ill get back to you with some more concreate data.

About your comment that you will never get the chance to use it, i beg to differ. If the opponent comes jumping up at you will will have plent of time to react and tele away. M2's tele range is quite significant and you can really strech the range to the point where you should be able to react withought getting hit. imo I think that it definatly could be a viable way of getting around peepz.

now granted, your not going to be able to do this every single time you come on the board, Im just saying that It can definatly screw up your opponent, and is another way for M2 to get back on the board.

perhaps this requires a vid or something? Ill try and get around to making one or something. Thank for your comments and more welcome!

Yeah, seriously. We really need a vid. I'm starting to think the LCT isn't what I think it is from all these different diagrams/explanations = /

lava please note that my teck isn't LCT. I was jsut trying to show a sweet way to sweet spot and also a way to use the camera that follows you in tele as an advantage.

*As you probably know, the camera follows the players on the field. When you tele with M2 your opponent has time to react because of the camera change. With my teck the camera gives the impression of you landing on the stage while in reality you are sweet spotting. an inteligent opponent is going to try and do some thing. because you have sweet spotted you have a better chance of punishing, or in my case making it easier to tele behind them and away from the edge*

**Please note diagrams 1A-1C**

***About those vids. Could someone plz tell me the cheapest way to capture??***

Thanks alot everyone!

i got my capture card at best buy for like 70, i know there's a cheaper way, but quality is probably crap, and it might not be as easy.

Just cash out man, and if you don't have the money, quit playin video games and get a jeeerb!

Tongji said:

Airo you find that the sweet spot is too small?? I have never experienced that problem at all, in fact I find it almost too easy. Hmm Perhaps I should do some more testing. Ill get back to you with some more concreate data.

About your comment that you will never get the chance to use it, i beg to differ. If the opponent comes jumping up at you will will have plent of time to react and tele away. M2's tele range is quite significant and you can really strech the range to the point where you should be able to react withought getting hit. imo I think that it definatly could be a viable way of getting around peepz.

now granted, your not going to be able to do this every single time you come on the board, Im just saying that It can definatly screw up your opponent, and is another way for M2 to get back on the board.

perhaps this requires a vid or something? Ill try and get around to making one or something. Thank for your comments and more welcome!

Click to expand...

lol im talking about vertical teleport range. if its downward diagonal, teleport sweetspots at just about any angle.

and no, you will never find yourself in a situation where you can use your vertical sweetspot.
neither is teleport fast enough to make any kind of escape.

Tongji said:

lava please note that my teck isn't LCT.

Click to expand...

hes talking about me and the LCT video i said i would put up.


Quak: as for me, i baught a TV walker. connects my computer to the tv and records whatever my tv is playing. =]

ill get working on that video ._.

em.......... ive been recording and trying..... i did the laggy LCT quite a few times, but the full LCT i havnt done yet. ._." anyoen care to experiement?

edit::

Wowzers... something new
not exactly the LCT described in first post but it is still a LCT
VIDEO WILL BE UP SOON

edit::

em... my video format is in mpg, but for some reason, movie maker cant read the video.

it can read the audio in the file, but it wont recognize the video.

i can play the video in windows media player no problem though.. anyone have a solution?

gah................70$ I do have a job. Im a flippin life savin life guard. (I get nice and sexy tan in the summer lolz)

Well If I do decide to buy one I will definatly get some vids up as well as a few matches. Thanks for the help Quak

Hopefully with the vids Ill be able to convince everyone that Vertical tele to SweetSpot is ownage! lolz

y not jsut post it in windows media then? or just use a digital cam and record the clip.

it's probably becase it's in the MPEG-2 format rather that the MPEG 1, movie maker will not read the MPEG-2 format.

Check ur save settings, switch it back to mpeg 1 format, and record again

Or if you really like the footage you have now, you can download the trial version of xilisoft video converter for free below and just convert the existing files. But your email could get spammed, or possibly worse. I downloaded it a year of so ago without any problems, but with the internet, you never know.

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multim...r-DIVX-Related/Xilisoft-Video-Converter.shtml

even though i just sounded REALLY tech savvy, that's all i really know about computers offa really frustrating experiances

Well, there is a converter that I found a while ago when I made the combo video, and it's actually pretty helpful. I'm not too sure if it'll accept the files you have recorded but it does have a wide range of output files(.flv, .avi, .wmv, etc.) So I guess you can convert it to one of those and then edit in WMM afterwards. The name is Ultra Video To Flash Converter. Just try searching for it on Yahoo or better yet Google it, whichever you see fit.

thx... i recorded it in avi ._."
uploading...

i reached a second breakthrough

now i have 2 kinds of LCT to upload.

thankyou both lavagolemn and quak.
quak im impressed by your computer knowledge =p


i found the best spot to experiment is at hyrule temple.
theres a tiny ledge sticking out of the ground in the east region.

also found other strange properties of teleport... ill give a thorough report later

edit:

uploaded ^^
links are posted here and first post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFDXv9NBxJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjsYDVpruwg

This is the LCT? Thanks for the vid it definatly helped. When I get a vid ill show you my idea of what ledge cancled tele can do.

Airo because you have a capture card could you try one more thing??

Go to FD and hang on the edge. Then drop off jump and tele. It has the same effect as what you were doing on Hyrule. However The dash attack to the ledge to tele was interesting. Im going to have to try that. Very interesting.... It has some possible uses. Perhaps you could possibly use your roll?? It looks to me like you need to get right next to the edge. So the roll would also work.

Great vids and thanks for your time and effort it's greatly appreciated!

i've been using the dash attack over the ledge like that for mindgames, dropping down then rising aerial, but ****, now i see what ur getting at, while you are vulnerable before you teleport (i picture a horror scene involving samus's f-smash), the pay off could be very nice, im going to practice that and see if i can incorporate it into my game.

Good find dude

tongji: =] thx

as for FD and hanging on ledge. theoretically, it should work the exact same way.
im assuming my positioning and angle of teleport should be exactly the same.. but i havnt pulled it off once in my many testing x_x'

there are many times when i would be able to do the LCT on the ledge, but they arnt air canceled.

its all so trippy and frame sensitive.

(really... someone with AR should aid in the testing x.x)

i also found that when you are standing at the tip of the ledge (when mewtwo does this arm folded swaying animation), it is not possible to teleport diagonally downards away from the stage.
not that you would ever want to teleport off the stage to death, but it shows that teleport has an interesting property to it.

the running A is done by using your running A towards the edge, and teleporting at a 45degree angle up and backwards. Timing is quite demanding for this one.

im assuming you have to hold away from the ledge when doing the dash attack so you fall off the stage right?