Is Edgehogging Different in Brawl?

Knight-errant · Mar 3, 2008

Question for those who have played Brawl:

Is edgehogging different? I did a search and couldn't find any information on it. It looks like the roll animation no longer edgehogs, like, you have to actually be on the ledge grabbing it for your opponent not to be able to grab it.

So, those who have played, enlighten us to the new edgehog mechanics, how they are useful/not useful, what the new ways we'll have to use it will be, etc...you know, general discussion type stuff.

-- Knight-errant

EDIT: Here's a video of what I'm talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS1i35cdWHI&feature=related

It's at 0:33. In melee Metaknight would have totally edgeguarded diddy because meta was in the middle of rolling up the edge, however, diddy still grabbed on.

TwilightSky · Mar 3, 2008

I think its the same, I saw a few videos of people doing that and it seems to be the same as before.

SuperLink9 · Mar 3, 2008

Well it should be a little easier, even without wavedashing, because you can now backgrab an edge. This means you can probably grab it by just walking slowly off and not falling far from the ledge, so you just grab on as you fall, rather than jumping backwards or wavedashing backwards.

I don't have Brawl though, so I can't be sure.

Knight-errant · Mar 3, 2008

Here, I'll try to find some videos to show you what I mean.

Hellbeing · Mar 3, 2008

SuperLink9 said:
Well it should be a little easier, even without wavedashing, because you can now backgrab an edge. This means you can probably grab it by just walking slowly off and not falling far from the ledge, so you just grab on as you fall, rather than jumping backwards or wavedashing backwards.

I don't have Brawl though, so I can't be sure.

thats entirely true, edgehogging has new pros and new cons to it.

NotEz · Mar 3, 2008

Ya, of the videos ive seen the edgeguarding isn't much different

paOol · Mar 3, 2008

its really different. you sweetspot alot more easily onto the ledge, but you cant hog it as long. if that makes sense. if you try to edge hog in brawl, what will normally happen is the person who is trying to get back on will up+b and their attack will knock you off the ledge and allow them to grab it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b4_Hn0IQKc

theres a pretty good example of it when im fighting gimpyfish's squirtle.

N-Plus · Mar 3, 2008

It's a dirty tactic and it seems to make an identical return in brawl

Yuna · Mar 3, 2008

Edgehogging still works the same. I have not tested how long you're counted as being on the edge even though you're not, however, but it's still much longer than the time you actually spend on the edge when rolling up.

Yeroc · Mar 3, 2008

Getting to the edge is a lot easier for most characters, because of the backwards grabbing/hugging. Keeping someone else off of it is a lot harder. You pretty much have to grab the edge right before they do, otherwise they'll just hit you off, and if you roll up then most characters will just grab anyway.

paOol · Mar 3, 2008

paOol said:
its really different. you sweetspot alot more easily onto the ledge, but you cant hog it as long. if that makes sense. if you try to edge hog in brawl, what will normally happen is the person who is trying to get back on will up+b and their attack will knock you off the ledge and allow them to grab it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b4_Hn0IQKc

theres a pretty good example of it when im fighting gimpyfish's squirtle.

at 1:28 if u just want to see the edge part.

Knight-errant · Mar 3, 2008

Ok, some people don't seem to know the definition of "edgehog." That's where you grab the edge to prevent your opponent from doing the same. It is different from edgeguarding.

Ok, I also found a decent video. The link is in the original post.

SuperLink9 · Mar 3, 2008

Oh yeah, and it obliterates tether recovery characters.

Knight-errant · Mar 3, 2008

Yeah, kind of stinks eh? It probably would've been better if they had stuck with melee's version of tether recovery.

jakeadactyl · Mar 3, 2008

lol you spelled 'hedgehog' wrong!

yes, there is one in super smash brothers brawl and he is a blue one and his name is sonic. but he is very different than the one in super smash brothers melee because there was no hedgehog in melee AHAHAHAHA. i think you have him confused for a character named 'Marth' because they have blue hair and i used to get them confused all the time.

Lord Viper · Mar 3, 2008

Yeroc said:
Getting to the edge is a lot easier for most characters, because of the backwards grabbing/hugging. Keeping someone else off of it is a lot harder. You pretty much have to grab the edge right before they do, otherwise they'll just hit you off, and if you roll up then most characters will just grab anyway.

Answered it before I can see this thread. -_-

Oh well, this the answer to your question.

Talendime · Mar 3, 2008

jakeadactyl said:
lol you spelled 'hedgehog' wrong!

yes, there is one in super smash brothers brawl and he is a blue one and his name is sonic. but he is very different than the one in super smash brothers melee because there was no hedgehog in melee AHAHAHAHA. i think you have him confused for a character named 'Marth' because they have blue hair and i used to get them confused all the time.

hahaha that's what I was thinking. at first. but then I didn't say it because it was stupid. hmm.

I've never ran into edge hogging in melee. I didn't even know you could hang from ledges! you guys are so like.. advanced..

Conda · Mar 3, 2008

o.o

10letters

Waddle · Mar 3, 2008

Its more useless now because people auto sweetspot. They just decided to take the skill out of Smash I guess.

LordLocke · Mar 3, 2008

Edgehogging looks a lot harder to do to non-tether recoveries then it used to- invincible time on a ledge upon grabbing is greatly reduced (seems about long enough to press an input and move on with life) and it seems the ledge is free for grabbing again as soon as you vacate it (Instead of the end of your edge roll/attack animation, which is how edge-hogging worked in Melee), so the window for stopping someone from grabbing the ledge by being on it is very, very small.

Chasing and Wall of Pain from the cliff look to be better choice in most instances, unless someone finds a way to keep a ledge occupied for a fair amount amount of time without being vulnerable as all get-out.

Knight-errant · Mar 3, 2008

LordLocke said:
Edgehogging looks a lot harder to do to non-tether recoveries then it used to- invincible time on a ledge upon grabbing is greatly reduced (seems about long enough to press an input and move on with life) and it seems the ledge is free for grabbing again as soon as you vacate it (Instead of the end of your edge roll/attack animation, which is how edge-hogging worked in Melee), so the window for stopping someone from grabbing the ledge by being on it is very, very small.

Chasing and Wall of Pain from the cliff look to be better choice in most instances, unless someone finds a way to keep a ledge occupied for a fair amount amount of time without being vulnerable as all get-out.

Finally! This is what I was looking for. :laugh:

Thank you.

ShortFuse · Mar 4, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVmtq3LeEUo&fmt=18 @ 00:45 & @ 1:20 - I edgehog PR3Y11 twice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjEj5fhRoes @ 0:25. Shine and then EdgeHog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-XCXrftEsU @ 1:39. Hogging of Fox Illusion

It's not that hard to do. Sure the timing is different, but it's take a short while to get used to. Ike is really easy to edge hog if he's doing his fB, just get up right before he reaches. He'll swing and die.

MetaKevin · Mar 4, 2008

Knight-errant...the name's a Shadowrun reference, am I right? If so, kudos.

Kruton · Mar 4, 2008

As far as edge-hogging goes, it's easy to position into one, but needing to do it is a lot more situational in this game.

You can be a lot more ballsy with edge guarding in this game because as long as you get near the edge, you're okay.

trenton_dawn · Mar 4, 2008

N-Plus said:
It's a dirty tactic and it seems to make an identical return in brawl

Computers do it to you now; it's fair game.

Knight-errant · Mar 4, 2008

ShortFuse said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVmtq3LeEUo&fmt=18 @ 00:45 & @ 1:20 - I edgehog PR3Y11 twice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjEj5fhRoes @ 0:25. Shine and then EdgeHog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-XCXrftEsU @ 1:39. Hogging of Fox Illusion

It's not that hard to do. Sure the timing is different, but it's take a short while to get used to. Ike is really easy to edge hog if he's doing his fB, just get up right before he reaches. He'll swing and die.

Those were some good examples, thanks. Am I right in saying that it looks like the invincibility time on the ledge is shorter in Brawl? (thus making it harder to edgeguard)

MetaKevin said:
Knight-errant...the name's a Shadowrun reference, am I right? If so, kudos.

No, it's really more just because I like the epicness of knight-errants.

If anything it's a reference to Don Quixote.

Helicore · Mar 4, 2008

you are no longer considered to be grabbing the ledge when you roll up. Other charcters can grab the ledge while you do this now as opposed to in melee

Knight-errant · Mar 4, 2008

Helicore said:
you are no longer considered to be grabbing the ledge when you roll up. Other charcters can grab the ledge while you do this now as opposed to in melee

Cool. This makes edgehogging require a lot more timing, and thus skill. And anything that adds more skill to the game is a good thing.

ptown · Mar 4, 2008

perhaps the timing is more strict since it seems you aren't actually holding the edge as long?

one question: i wonder if >100% damage edge options (e.g. rolling, "wake up attack," etc.) edgehog any better than <100% options since they are usually a whole lot slower?

Helicore · Mar 4, 2008

From all the matches i have seen with rather good people Edgehogging seems to rarely ever work for them. not to say that no one can get it to work, they are probably just too used to the way it works in melee.

While it would add more skill to properly execute it is just way too easy to prevent anyone with a tether recovery from getting back. Looks like people who main anyone with a tether will have to find other ways to get back

ShortFuse · Mar 4, 2008

If somebody is trying to edgehog you best bet is to give yourself a little room to go past the edge. For example, with Fox, using Up+B vertically or diagonally, if somebody is somebody is hogging, you'll go past the edge. Remember that it's not so important to aim for the tip of the edge anymore.
The same goes for Marth's Up+B, if you don't go for tip, and somebody edge hogs, you can go past them and land on the stage.

Horizontal moves are very easy to edge hog. Both Fox's fB and Ike's fB to the edge are suicide against a skilled player when trying to recover from far away. The only Fox has is the shine to stall in midair, but even so, a slow recovery from the edge is long enough to kill you. Against Ike, it doesn't have to be timed at all, just press A when Ike is going to hit you. You'll get invincibility frames and Ike will swing and die.

vidjogamer · Mar 4, 2008

It's the same just the auto sweet spot hit box is very big.

greenlink · Mar 4, 2008

While the invincibility frames are shorter, some charecters with tether recoveries (the only one i am sure of is zss) can edgehog while hanging off their tether. This means they can be very low down and edgehog at the same time. (This was possible in melee but the tether lasts much longer in brawl)

pesticide · Mar 4, 2008

watched that part of the vid. i guess u cant roll off the edge now and the game still think ur on the edge. that's new news to me!

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