Arrow Swarming?

Ok here's the deal. Earlier this week I was screwing around with the arrows and managed to shoot an arrow at my opponent who was recovering. He was off the edge and above me. I slant it up and he dodged it. I looped it back around to try to hit him again with it. The thing is I flinched and shot an arrow and both connected at the same time. (Note I was having target practice against a lvl3 Bowser.) I practiced it and I can do it consistently in practice. Tried it yesterday against Jasona, couldn't manage to even get the first to loop well.

Anyway I just wanted to throw this out there so you all can practice it. My Wii is being sent to Nintendo for repairs and I can't do much at the moment. However I can't stop thinking about how to utilize this (for the lack of a better term) technique.

Loop arrow application? Personally I can't see how it can be used practically. During the time you're trying to loop the arrow your movement becomes stifled, preventing you from just firing another regular arrow or something else.

It stinks you're Wii is gone. Hope that gets sorted out soon.

You can fire arrows while controlling a previous arrow. I've been doing it consistently and so long as you have "Up to Jump" turned off it requires little movement if you don't slam the joy stick.

Here's what I've been able to do so far. Shoot an arrow at a recovering opponent. If they dodge it, keep looping it up and back around. This is where it gets a little tricky. When the arrow passes back over your head, release the joystick's directional input and press B. Quickly fire and take control of both Arrows.

This makes it more difficult for a slow recovering character such as Samus to dodge. I typically find it too dangerous to pursue a recovering (someone who's already on their way back) Samus (along with several other characters). While nailing your opponent with arrows as their recovering doesn't seem like a big deal, it's still hitting them with arrows. What they would typically just air-dodge without a second thought.

And while hard, I've been able to apply directional influence to the arrows with such minimal directional input on the joystick as to fire an arrow while still in control of the previous one.

The most I've gotten to loop at the same time were three. And it only happened after many failures and a night's sleep on it. However that's how long it took me to pick up on the initial concept so who knows. I do think however that this can find it's way into competitive play. Especially against characters with slow recoveries.


My next task after I can consistently increase the number of arrows at one time, is to learn to move while controlling arrows. Since it relies on minimal input there's not reason you can't manage to move semi-regularly during this time.


Final Note, stages like Delfino Plaza and Norfair can make for some fun Arrow Swarming. A match that will be put online soon will show a failed attempt at Arrow Swarming before I got it down (UndrDog (Pit) vs Jasona (Samus) 03-31-08 (27) at around 5:50). Find the link to it later today in my thread if interested. Again it's a failed attempt. I couldn't get the next arrow off because the looped arrow connected on it's own and by this point Samus was too close. As you'll see in the video the arrow was traveling upwards at the time. Had I fired one up with it I could've looped both around again and added another. I can see this being a situational technique.

I did some tests. I created a large stage with platforms in a pyramid scheme to stretch the camera and set the speed to 1/4. Using a stop watch, I found that the time it takes to make an arrow do a 360 with the smallest curves possible takes 4.9 seconds. The time it took to fire two arrows takes 2.85 seconds. Firing a second arrow while looping the first is impossible to do in the same direction with out taking the 4.9 seconds to complete the loop, otherwise you end up shooting up or backwards.

Roughly Five Seconds would be accurate for what I did. Any more then that like you said would not only be HIGHLY situational, but you'd have to see the opportunity coming far in advance.

However I will attest that I've hit an opponent with two arrows at once today. Albeit a lvl3 CPU Bowser on Battlefield. As a disclaimer I will note that this was all I was trying to do for roughly two hours and I was shooting the first arrow as soon as I hit him. The first arrow was shot up and looped behind me then under the stage. Once the arrow straightened out under the stage I shot the second arrow forward towards Bowser and hooked them both upward, hitting him from below.

This took me roughly two hours to do once. After that I came close a few times just missing him with the looped arrow.

I'll try to borrow Jasona's Wii as mine is going to be sent off tomorrow I believe depending on when I get the UPS sticker in the mail.


Please note that if you're fighting an opponent who recovers high and slowly and always air-dodges your projectiles while doing so I believe this is a valid skill to try to learn. This is no more difficult then Fox's Double Shine in Melee and I'm sure it'll become second nature with enough practice.

A secret with Pits arrows, is after you shoot it, to use his mirror shield, and it will prevent you from moving with your arrows direction.

Yep, though I find taunting to be a better mindgame. I think there's actually a strategic usage of Pit's sub-par voice acting.

Personally, I don't think arrow looping is impractical... I have been trying to insert it into my game and sometimes it actually works. I use arrow looping for all kinds of things like when someone is hanging on the edge I shoot an arrow and loop it around to hit them, sometimes I have hit them with a fmash and an arrow at the same time(or having the arrow bounce them into the fmash). If someone could perfect arrow looping I don't see why it can't be useful. o.o It would sure add to the mindgames and give them something else to worry about. It isn't that hard to control the arrow and yourself. Also I have found that the way you move the joystick when doing arrow looping you can sometimes hit them with an arrow and a bair at the same time. I have done this about 3 times in matches.(Against my brother)

Yea, actually looping the arrows over and over again in a big stage can throw your opponent off, and force them to move in closer, knowing that you can do it.

I also think loop arrow is good. It works for me against my friend who comes to expect my arrows and always sidesteps them. The trick is being able to fight while controlling it because people could easily rush attack you if your too focused on the arrow.

Okay so I have implemented something similar to this into my game. I loop the arrow when my opponent is high and outside of the stage, I dont shoot another arrow, I goto rush him after I've looped the arrow (or during it i should say) I've managed to pull off several kills either hittting them with the arrow and then doing some aerial or they focus on dodging the arrow and i hit them with an aerial. This works on the ground too cept most the time i use f-tilt instead of an aerial.

UndrDog said:

This is where it gets a little tricky. When the arrow passes back over your head, release the joystick's directional input and press B. Quickly fire and take control of both Arrows.
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Click to expand...

I realized an easier way if you get good at controlling it with minimal movement. After firing the first arrow, Hold down the B button ASAP as to charge the second arrow. Since you are using minimal joystick movement, it is not enough to activate a Side/Up/Down B and you will draw another arrow.

What makes this better is that:
1. You are not moving
2. When the arrow passes by your head, simply let go of B and you will have two arrows much closer than before.

So in summation, there is no need to break your flow of controlling an arrow to add with another by letting go of the joystick.

EDIT: This could be harder now that I think about it and tried. Someone who is good at the minimal movement should try it and give feedback. But something cool I just did was fire an arrow and instead of firing another when it zooms by your head,(release the joystick like Undrdog said) hold it while looping the first arrow again, then release when it is near you again.
I have been able to hit someone with two arrows at the same time in training. It can be useful if your opponent is stalling on the ledge or when you have the time for two arrow loops. I tried this in my zoomed out custom stage so you need to imagine your arrows looping a second time in regular battles instead of using your eyes.

Nice find there Kupo, I didn't think of that. I'll put it to the test soon. ^_^

Im weak with arrow techniques like that. Im sticking to arrow looping and Arrow Blitzing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcHwN0LvcqM

I start doing it pretty good from 4:35 to 5:10. But this is a good example of what he means (Sorry its a little sloppy because of wifi lol)

Wow, that is really cool. How did you do that? Are you just focusing on looping the last arrow shot and the rest just move randomly? I didn't realize that was possible. I need to get better at that.
This def. should be labeled as an AT. Especially if one can master the minimal movement and hide the fact that you are arrow looping.

Sagemoon: I see what you mean and the term "swarming" makes sense now. My post fits a different application of Arrow looping

Ideally you should be able to decide whether you want the arrows close together or far apart. Meaning if you look at Sagemoon's video you'll notice that his are spread out and cover a larger area. While it's more difficult, you can swarm arrows at a close proximity with one another. I've gotten four arrows to swarm within an arrow's width of each other.

I really think that if you can get four plus arrows going the way Sagemoon demonstrated you can really screw with your opponent while being able to routinely add another arrow on each way around. Just try to imagine that. An indefinite number of arrows looping across the stage. I feel that once one of us gets the idea of swarming two arrows down to an art, this idea will soon follow.

Imagine my image above on FD and a Dedede desperately trying to close a gap in stock as the clock runs down. Fat chance. ^_^

Plus if all else fails it can be used as something of an intimidation taunt between stocks.

thats sick i need to try that, can some post a video of arrow blitzing?

Check my UndrWorld topic. Arrow Blitzing is demonstrated in the UndrWorld 1 and UndrWorld 2, albeit the same clip.

Arrow Chasing is demonstrated in UndrWorld 2.2 which is being released tonight.

cool cool i learnd blitzing but swarming is still a little trixy without looking at the arrows, im almost there tho.. ill be sure to check out the next one too thanks

This is really neat. When is the best time to use this?

Hard to say. I've never really used it in a match. Only as a taunt between stocks. I suppose it would work if you can do it as fast as possible when an opponent is off the edge. Not really sure though.

i use it to get arrows to come straight down while the opponent is aiming for the edge kinda like an arrow wall of pain raining down, works well against people with ****ty recoveries like wolf for example, but thats more of an arrow blitz i guess, either way it is hard to set up in an actual match

oh, ok, thanks

Arrow Swarming application in several matches.

Angelic Fight - Undr The Starry Sky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmT5-SqW01E

undrdog has changed my mind. Looks flashy and fun to do XD

two syllables

epic

You are very good at that. Even though constant arrow looping doesn't fit my style, I prefer the reverse arrow loop when you are back facing your enemy occasionally. I got a couple of "oohs" from the crowd at my tourney today doing it.

I can't wait to get a crowd around me at the next tournament I go to. I'm going to find one of the 300 R.O.B.s that are bound to be there and swarm the ever-loving crap out of him. ^_^

lol, sounds great! The only problem I have with the move is that even though I never played these guys before, then seemed to know it was coming and made my attempts seem futile.

I've been experimenting with this for a while now. Guess I gotta turn jump with control stick off for better results. Has anyone experimented with arrows going in opposite directions? I got some really weird results with that were both arrows hit like the opposite side of the stage. It's hard to see it trajectory though maybe someone who made a huge stage can test it better.

I think this technique is definetly usefull of only cause it allows you to hit more angles. And besides that arrow looping just looks really awesome as well ^^.

So do the arrows stop when they reach the borders of a stage? Or can they keep going for ever?

The only border the arrows can bypass without dying is the top border.

As for looping in two different directions at once, it's possible and I was practicing it for awhile. It's more to show off then anything else. However simply firing in two different directions on the other hand... That's one of the next things I have planned to work on.

Ah ok thats nice to know. And when do you lose control of the arrow? Or do you always have control of it? I guess that means I gotta make sure it goes up if I plan to re-use the same arrow again.

this thread is crazy!

You always have control over the arrows unless it's reflected by your opponent... I think. You even retain control over them if they've been reflected by your opponent's shield. ^_^

Undr, you still main Pit? You need to switch to Olimar.

are you sure you maintain control of the arrow if you get hit, or grabbed.... i wanna test it but i need my friend over to do it

I don't usually worry too much about the fancier arrow edgeguarding techniques. In fact I almost never edgeguard if my opponent has low damage. I usually go for KOs off the top of the stage. Most of the time, when I KO someone off of a side, I do it by accident when I'm trying to do something else.

But can you really still control a reflected arrow? I gotta try that...good thing I have a Falco-maining friend coming over, because this could be pretty useful against characters with reflectors. They reflect an arrow, watching intently to see the humiliation on my face as I get hit on the rebound by a double-damage arrow...then suddenly I swerve it around! While my awed opponent is in shock after witnessing my incredible feat, I slam him with the buffed arrow for MASSIVE DAMAGE! Awesome...

8% or so . A good example of what sounds good on paper but probably won't be as spectacular IRL .