Lucario Vs. Marth (Match-up Thread Export)

~Rotation 6~ Marth 9 (pg. 33-39)

Bio: The Legendary Swordsmen from Fire Emblem and Melee.
Sex: Not sure.

The blue, dancing Blade swordsmen. Marth is legendary among the Melee/Brawl crowd for being a top notch character. Fast, good range, amazing spike and a killer hair cut to boot.

His manly weapon, is a sword. What makes the sword so special, is that is critical point is its tip. So he can "poke" you, and still get bonus points. And it has range and priority, lots of it.
And Marth has a pocket of tricks, that make him notorious.
One such trick, is his Down-B, the counter. I never knew you could counter almost anything thing with the flick of his sword. Apparently, Marth can.
Why Dodge bullets, when you can counter them with your sword?

What makes Marth a hard match-up for lucario is most every of his attacks (minus a few) outrange lucario's, and with his sweetspot the tip of his sword. A expert placement Marth, will wipe the floor with you. Back and forth spinning and slashing in a womanly-manly way.

What lucario has going for him, is projectiles, and being able to recover from Marth's spike.
A close match indeed but more in the favor of Marth.
-tedward2000

Behavior:

• Marth can afford to play slightly defensive versus Lucario, but also wrecks havoc by playing offensively. A good Marth will space f-smashes and d-tilts, which really keep you from approaching effectively. He'll be watching for our BAS so that he can effortlessly swat it away with a f-tilt and laugh in our face. Marth's love their side-b mix-ups, so be extremely careful not to get too close to him. You certainly do not want to roll towards him. Just like you don't want to be too close, you do not want to be in F-smash's sweetspot. That is the real "No-Go Zone". Watch the n-air approach, which will auto-cancel. Basically, he will spend the entire match waiting for you to slip up and get too close, where he will absolutely destroy you.
• Marth's fair beats your aerials. He can fair pretty rapidly and most good Marths do just that. This makes things a little tricky, but not at all terrible. Marth is still a much easier match up than someone like Toon Link or G&W. Marth has no projectiles to worry about. They love to do up b out of shield. Take note of shield breaker, as it is much better in this game than it was in Melee. Marth can edgeguard exceptionally well, so be very careful of that. Probably all of Marth's smashes are reasonable kill moves. His tippered fsmash is by far his most dangerous kill move, be extremely cautious of it.
  Overall, fighting Marth is not much unlike fighting any other character that outranges you. Just play it smart and try to realize what move the enemy is going to use and you can easily avoid it and attack them. Blindly running in against Marth either in the air or on the ground isn't the greatest idea. Projectiles mean you don't have to be the one to approach if you don't want to.
  -dguy6789
• He loves his fair as much as we love our dair. He loves his counter like my ex liked chocolate. And he loves his priority like my cousin (3 years old) likes Thomas the Tank Engine. Lucario WILL NOT beat him midrange, lucario can actually stand a chance up close, but only after an opening. And at least you have AS to get something. I just tend to use AS to keep marth on his toes as he approaches. Going for lengthy combos like utilt chains is a bad idea because they have counter. You just need to be close enough for a grab or an AA>? combo and hope for the best after that. Oh and watch out for his spike!
  -betterthanbonds9

Fundamental Moves:

• Sheild Breaker: His neutral B, Shield Breaker has the following qualities: It breaks shields in 1 hit fully charged, and brings them down to the size of a pea with an uncharged. If it hits with the tip, it has the most knockback of all of Marth's moves. If used in the air, it will propel him forward a lot, and can be used for recovery. (I'm pretty sure the hitbox is only out the first few seconds, while he is flying forward, it's no threat)
• Dancing Blade: His Side-B, Dancing Blade: If the third hit is angled down, it can be used as a spike. If the upward combo is used, it sets up very well for his aerial combat. The side combo can be used as a mediocre, but fast killer. The down combo can be used as a damage racker. He will use it to turn around, and it has a very fast start up time.
• Dolphin Slash: Up-B, Dolphin Slash: It has invincibility frames on startup not sure what they are though. It's auto-sweetspots, and it is actually a very good killer.
• D-air: His Dair is a spike, but it has TONS of lag, he will rarely ever use this, and if he does, it will never be on the stage. If he does, and he wiffs it, make sure to punish.
  -Illucamy
• F-smash: Obviously. Marth's most used smash. Does devastating damage when tipped. His F-smash is much quicker than ours, so keep your distance. Ours out-ranges his.
• D-tilt: Another of Marth's primary spacing moves. It comes out in 7 frames, and also has IASA (Interruptable As Soon As) frames. Marth can just sit there poking you with d-tilts and there isn't much you can do to avoid it. They love their d-tilts (Especially Emblem Lord).

Match-Up: 40:60 (Disadvantage)


How to Win:

• As long as you camp with AS and fsmash there's not much Marth can do. Make sure you charge your aura spheres or use them at high %. Marth can cancel BAS out with most of his moves. Bottom line: don't let Marth get on the inside. His dsmash and usmash have both received good buffs, and they can kill fairly early now. His utilt can kill as well, and his dtilt might outrange a few of our moves. Dancing blade ***** now, seriously. It's quick and easy damage for Marth, and it may send you offstage for an edgeguard. It also renews all of his moves. Marth has a lot of release grab setups, but luckily I don't think any of them will work on Lucario.
  I wouldn't even try the FP chaingrab. Marth is floaty enough as is, and his upb can break through anything. Comes out on frame 1 and has invincibility for 4 frames. You could try to predict the upb and shield (in that case you'd be able to punish), but I still wouldn't mess with it.
  -Fizzle
• BAS's as previously stated, do not hinder Marth at all. So Lucario loses out here. Using fully charged AS as an edgeguarding tool is still good though. You just have to get Marth in a position where he is more or less forced to either eat the hit or airdodge to his doom. You would have to get him to waste his jump or knock him out pretty far to do this though. It's definitely not going to be a common occurrence in a high level match between the two that's for sure. So AS as an edgeguarding tool would have less bearing on the match-up since its far more situational.
  Lucario not abusing BAS is like Ryu not abusing hadoukens in ST.
  -Emblem Lord
• Don't use BAS as a damager, use it as a dispeller/distractor. Watch out for his SH game, it comes fast. Overall, I would get used to using the different defensive tech's, and trade between being the one to initiate an attack, and one to wait for the attack. Watch out for spacing mindgames, otherwise he'll sucker you with a Dancing Blade, fsmash/tilt, or an aerial. Luckily, while Dsmash is a worry, Marth is otherwise a very linear char, and most aggressive Marth's rely on a "trainwreck" momentum. If you can break it in his SH, you have a chance to punish. Take advantage of your Fsmash>Marth's fsmash in range.
  -phi1ny3
• Everytime I watch a video, and someone doesnt rolldodge -> edgehog I die a little inside. Such a glaring weakness is Marth's otherwise near perfect moveset needs to be abused at every opportunity, not just for Lucario. For those who dont know, when someone like Marth is off stage, roll dodge to the edge of the stage, then as soon as Marth enters the range from which he can sweetspot the edge, press down-diagonal in the direction towards where the enemy is trying to recover from. Even if you somehow misstime it, there is no risk whatsoever in doing this once you get the timing down, and will always lead to a free ledge get-up attack anyway. USE THIS.
  -djbrowny
• This match-up is all about spacing. Both Lucario and Marth are built around spacing, so it really comes down to who can do it better. F-smash is your best option for keeping your space, but beware, while Marth's f-smash has less range, it is quicker. D-tilt is an alright option when it comes to spacing, and can also be used as a combo-starter against Marth.
  When compared to Marth, Lucario has very little cool-down lag on most of his attacks. Use this to your advantage. A whiffed f-smash or Sheild-Breaker by Marth can be very easily punished, so make sure not to miss your chance if the opportunity arises. Sheild-Breaker, for example, can easily be side-stepped and punished.
  Also, try not to be too obvious when playing Marth; they will be watching for patterns in your gameplay so that they can counter (down-B) it. But don't forget that you have a counter as well. Sheild-breaker is very easy to counter, and it's ending lag keeps Marth from being able to block it.
  The most important thing to know: Use F-smash. This move is what keeps Marth from completely annihilating you.

Recommended Stages:

• Final Destination: The lip on Final Destination's edges gimp Marth's recovery very often, and can also shield you from being spiked to your doom, supposing you recover low. Just don't be too obvious with your wall clinging, as he can easily drop down and d-air you.
• BattleField: BattleField, AKA Marthland. Just like in Melee, Marth owns on BattleField. It's platforms set up perfectly for Marth, whose aerial combat outranks yours. Short hop f-airs/n-airs go through the platfroms while simaltaneously protecting Marth. Do yourself a favor, and DO NOT GO HERE!

--It is not necessary to post here; In fact, I'd prefer if you didn't. If you think there's something I need to add or edit, post in the stickied Match-Up thread or send me a PM.

Thanks man, I obviously an expert on using Lucario. My cousin uses Marth and constantly spam side special as well as him using forward smash. In addition, he likes large stages and have tendency to camp a lot. I sometimes have bad timing on the counter (DoubleTeam), but I did manage to pull one off when he was spamming side-B. Lucario's counter have shorter frames than Ike's and Marth, but is stronger.

At the last tournament i played i had several rounds against a marth main my main focus was to camp with aura spheres and throw rather than camp with forward smash, i save the f-smash for a kill around 80 percent. i dont think this is really a counter pick due to the fact if you land one dair or bair marths recovery can be gimped, on the other hand an aggressive marth can be difficult but managing uptilts with aura sphere throw combinations won my matches hopefully this helps....

Thanks ^^ was pretty helpful..... after I just lost to a marth xD

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Sex: Not sure
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This made me laugh, but apparently no one gets that he got his tiara from his sister, and he only fixes it to make sure it doesn't fall off, and he loses it ^_^ thats whats up with the tiara. <.< or so a FE freak told me.... and his trophy said "he" a few times xD

im getting your thread pages and puting them together