The "Metaknight should/will be banned" thread.

dawgbowl · Aug 23, 2008

Kakashi421 said:
That is true. I wonder how many people show up.

I won't lie, I would be more inclined to show up... I'm tired of fighting them.

MajinSweet · Aug 23, 2008

It might be a case where the character isn't technically worthy of being banned, but the competitive scene might be much better without him. The worst part about this, I feel like not only is MetaKnight the best character, but he has the most room for improvement. Because of his super quick, low lag attacks.

Kakashi421 · Aug 23, 2008

MajinSweet said:
It might be a case where the character isn't technically worthy of being banned, but the competitive scene might be much better without him. The worst part about this, I feel like not only is MetaKnight the best character, but he has the most room for improvement. Because of his super quick, low lag attacks.

IMO, he doesn't need improvement when you main him. The only thing you really can do is make more combo's and learn about the Infinite Dimensional Cape if you like stalling.

Amide · Aug 23, 2008

Vulcan55 said:
You can't compare MK to anyone from Melee.
Every character in Melee has weaknesses.

IMO, wether MK gets banned is only a matter of time.
If he does, I might start playing this game competitively.
(NOTE: I'm not being a scrub and saying that MK is why I don't)

Quoted for truth. I'm gonna punch the next person that says "He's light. That's his weakness." ... Seriously? Weight doesn't make a huge difference in Brawl, especially with the fact that MK has an amazing recovery. But weaknesses don't matter, it's strengths. Mario doesn't have that much weaknesses, but does that make him great? No. While the lack of skill required to win as Meta Knight would be a good qualification for a ban, can't you guys imagine what it would do to the competitive scene without him? Even you MK mains (I was one too) need to realize Brawl would suddenly become so much deeper.

Tim_The_Enchanter · Aug 23, 2008

Kakashi421 said:
IMO, he doesn't need improvement when you main him. The only thing you really can do is make more combo's and learn about the Infinite Dimensional Cape if you like stalling.

IDC is banned

Will_ · Aug 23, 2008

I do see some of y'all's points about diversifying the metagame, but this isn't the D/P Pokemon meta. In melee, we didn't ban Fox, Shiek, etc. to uber tier so people would play mid tier more. Characters in fighting games are banned for being ridiculous--Akuma, Carnage(iirc), Gold War Machine(iirc), Guilty Gear EX characters, etc.. MK is nowhere near that level of ridiculous.

True, people are playing the crap out of him. At FAST1 there was an MK on almost every TV in the brackets, and MK dittos on a few. Obviously, you have to be prepared for the MK matchup. But in melee, who honestly went into the tournament without working on the Fox/Falco matchup? There's always going to be a #1 character to look out for, whether MK is in the meta or not. Just because Snake is easier to deal with in the eyes of many doesn't mean you won't see a tourney stocked with them(after MK is gone).

ADHD · Aug 23, 2008

So, better for me. The more stupid, aggressive metaknights that want to charge at me, the more wins for me. I'm just afraid of the ones that know how to glide throw lol, not many of those.

Winston · Aug 24, 2008

Surprised Yuna hasn't reared his head and swallowed this topic whole yet. If he was here you know what he'd say anyway.

Fact is, Metaknight at this point is more dominant than any character ever has been in a smash game. (Pikachu in ssb64 is debatably of similar status, but the competitive scene is so small there and thus there's basically a nonexistent sample size to determine whether he really is that good. anyway)

It's not the same to compare him to Fox in melee. It's not the same to compare him to snake of a few months ago. The fact is that he actually has no weaknesses among the metrics that matter in the game of smash bros. (range, priority, speed of attacks, lag time, maneuverability, gimpability).

The argument of "people will find counters as the metagame develops" also makes the assumption that the engine is deep enough for a radical enough change to be made to overcome metaknight.

summary: metaknight is ridiculously good, metaknight at this point is broken, right now he's almost broken but not quite banworthy, and it's unlikely that that will change much, therefore it's unlikely that he will/should be banned.

Samuelson · Aug 24, 2008

MK shouldn't be banned, not yet that anyway. If you ban MK then people are going to want to be ban other characters. A character should only be banned if the only way to beat the character is by using the same character and i do not think that is going to happen. MK is beatable at the moment, in the future MK will either become more broken or people will come up with ways to deal with him more easily. If he becomes too broken THEN we should ban him. I do think that it is really lame that everybody decides to use MK because he is top tier but a lot of people are in Brawl for the money, MK makes money.z I think it's just as lame when people complain about MK and say how annoying he is and whatnot.

I wish there was more variety in character choices and if MK was banned then people would start to use other characters who's potential hasn't been tapped into yet which would be a great thing for Brawl.

Krakatoa · Aug 24, 2008

I say that if somehow someone discovers an AT that works like a wavedash MK will become definetly broken...until then he is beatable so we shouldn't ban him, but I wouldn't care for watching him banned

RDK · Aug 24, 2008

Gustav Wind said:
Surprised Yuna hasn't reared his head and swallowed this topic whole yet. If he was here you know what he'd say anyway.

Fact is, Metaknight at this point is more dominant than any character ever has been in a smash game. (Pikachu in ssb64 is debatably of similar status, but the competitive scene is so small there and thus there's basically a nonexistent sample size to determine whether he really is that good. anyway)

It's not the same to compare him to Fox in melee. It's not the same to compare him to snake of a few months ago. The fact is that he actually has no weaknesses among the metrics that matter in the game of smash bros. (range, priority, speed of attacks, lag time, maneuverability, gimpability).

The argument of "people will find counters as the metagame develops" also makes the assumption that the engine is deep enough for a radical enough change to be made to overcome metaknight.

summary: metaknight is ridiculously good, metaknight at this point is broken, right now he's almost broken but not quite banworthy, and it's unlikely that that will change much, therefore it's unlikely that he will/should be banned.

In my opinion, he's just shy of getting to the point where he would be ban-worthy. It's almost a balance of brokenness; he's not superior in the sense of Melee Fox or 64 Pikachu, because at least those characters had their sizeable flaws. MK has very few flaws.

He has quick attacks with very little startup and very little after-lag. He's a fast character, he has relatively strong attacks when not ridiculously spammed. He has great B moves and an over-the-top recovery that borders on the asinine. He's virtually ungimpable, has great priority, and is relatively easy to use. His only cons, if you can call them that, are his weight and his slight range disadvantage.

Foxtrotter · Aug 24, 2008

First it was Pit with his arrows...

Then it was Snake...

Now it's Meta Knight.

I predict that Lucario, the Chuck Norris of Brawl, will be deemed "broken" sooner or later.

On an un-related note, how did the Street Fighter community decide that Akuma was supposed to be banned?

I wish there was more variety in character choices and if MK was banned then people would start to use other characters who's potential hasn't been tapped into yet which would be a great thing for Brawl.

The next-best character will be banned, then the next-next best, and so on and so forth until Captain Falcon, Jiggles, and Gannon are the only viable characters.

Grunt · Aug 24, 2008

Foxtrotter said:
On an un-related note, how did the Street Fighter community decide that Akuma was supposed to be banned?

Akuma was winning every single tournament.

Semmick · Aug 24, 2008

He shouldn't be banned, no character should.

ToastMAN · Aug 24, 2008

The real question is, if Yoshi and Ganondorf were banned would anyone care?

Here is a list of answers im putting up in response to future responses i may have recieved.

What does this have to do with the topic?

Nothing really, i just wanted to change the subject.

Yoshi and Ganon are not broken why ban them?

Because hardly anyone is gonna use them and banning them would have no effect on at a tourny full of smashers will do anything to get an upperhand.

Are you here to Troll or to Rant?

No, I was kinda bored. I heard a SMYNer was acting a foo by an anonomyous tipper,

Will you ever come back?

Maybe, but it doesnt look good, this website licks d*** and so does the majority of the community (im not neccesarly saying you the reader.) I do occasionally visit but it has been less and less frequently.

Foxtrotter · Aug 24, 2008

Grunt said:
Akuma was winning every single tournament.

... Okay, that doesn't help the anti-ban Meta Knight case very much, especially if you're exaggerating. X.o

Darn my curiosity.

ToastMAN said:
The real question is, if Yoshi and Ganondorf were banned would anyone care?

Just about everybody in the Smash community.

"OHMIGAWD U BAND A CARCTER YYYY?!?!?!?! ****"

And if you're bored, may I direct you to 4chan? I hear it's lovely over there. :3

ToastMAN · Aug 24, 2008

Lawl 4chan,

I say we start saying that captain Falcon is broken and then see how many people will start maining him...

btw i happened to chuckle at your post

Scala · Aug 24, 2008

Don't just say he should or shouldn't be banned without giving your reasons. This isn't a vote, but a debate.

I'm in favor of MK being banned. RDK said it best:

RDK said:
He has quick attacks with very little startup and very little after-lag. He's a fast character, he has relatively strong attacks when not ridiculously spammed. He has great B moves and an over-the-top recovery that borders on the asinine. He's virtuall ungimpable, has great priority, and is relatively easy to use. His only cons, if you can call them that, are his weight and his slight range disadvantage.

I don't even think he has a range disadvantage.

What I think should happen:
Metaknight should go on a temporary ban. Reintroduce him after the game has developed for all the characters and we'll see how well he does.

Mmac · Aug 24, 2008

ToastMAN said:
The real question is, if Yoshi and Ganondorf were banned would anyone care?

I'd care >_>

ToastMAN · Aug 24, 2008

lol, no matter how awesome yoshi is (i less than 3 yoshi) not as many people would be crying to sleep if he were to get banned,

btw is SamuraiPanda the fat guy from smyn?

IM_A_HUSTLA · Aug 24, 2008

Grunt said:
Akuma was winning every single tournament.

Doesnt MK???

Seriously, I know he doesnt win them all but that just means there wasnt a good enough MK in the tournament

Foxtrotter · Aug 24, 2008

Scala said:
-snip!-

What I think should happen:
Metaknight should go on a temporary ban. Reintroduce him after the game has developed for all the characters and we'll see how well he does.

How could we get the whole of SWF, let alone the entire Brawl community, to temporarily ban Meta Knight? It'll just cause more fighting. >>

ToastMAN said:
Lawl 4chan,

I say we start saying that captain Falcon is broken and then see how many people will start maining him...

btw i happened to chuckle at your post

YES, I made somebody chuckle.

Whoop-ee.

If you get Overswarm or somebody well-respected and put up a good defense, I bet a bunch will.

Vulcan55 · Aug 24, 2008

Scala said:
What I think should happen:
Metaknight should go on a temporary ban. Reintroduce him after the game has developed for all the characters and we'll see how well he does.

I also had that thought at one point, but how are you to enforce that?
It's not like anyone will show up at your house / venue and arrest you for making MK legal.
Plus, only the people who wanted MK legal would show up.

That and, the only way to advance everyone elses metagame without advancing MKs would be to, somehow, remove MK from every Brawl copy in the world.

zB. · Aug 24, 2008

Don't know if this has been posted yet (I didn't read every page so I'm not really sure) but it's an article all about banning stuff in competitive gameplay:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/intermediates-guide/what-should-be-banned/

It's a good read on the subject. Anyway, I'm more looking at the ban surrounding Akuma in SSFII Turbo, considering it's what most people bring up when discussing the MK ban. Akuma was banned because of his significant advantages over the vast majority of the cast. As in, there were characters who essentially had no chance of beating him. Ever. Mk is looking to possibly approach this situation, should methods to defeat him not be found. It is ridiculous at this point to ban him. However, in the future, it does seem possible.

The article does, however, go on to talk about another character from that particular game that significantly impacts competitive play: Old Sagat. He's not as ridiculously good as Akuma, but he still is leagues above many members of the cast, which would otherwise be at least moderately playable. This has lead to a Japan soft ban (although nothing in America as of the writing of the article). I would think Mk fits this description more. He's definitely beatable, but he severely limits the number of characters who are playable at a competitive level. Banning him would allow other characters to be paid more attention to and to have their respective metagames futhered at a faster pace than what is the current situation.

I wouldn't support an outright ban yet, but I think it would be interesting to see how a few preemptive tournaments without Metaknight turn out. If we see a different make up in the winners bracket than cool. If we see Snake or Marth or Dedede or whomever suddenly start to dominate, well, we might have to deal with brawl just being broken altogether XD. Hopefully not though.

And, hey, no making fun of 4chan. It's a very serious place for very serious business thankyouverymuch.

RDK · Aug 24, 2008

Scala said:
What I think should happen:
Metaknight should go on a temporary ban. Reintroduce him after the game has developed for all the characters and we'll see how well he does.

I would be in favor of something like this.

And he doesn't even have to be banned from tournaments; it would be great if just a few were held sans-MK simply to see the effects of an entirely high-to-low character tournament. There's no harm in trying something like this.

Dynomite · Aug 24, 2008

mk should be banned... hmm i smell some johns.. mk shouldnt be banned, cmon just find a way to counter mk... ur not even 1 year into brawl yet barely 6 months (usa version) still have alot of time. tbh, i see ditty as the new upcommin top tier for johns cuz of his bananas..

Winston · Aug 24, 2008

RDK said:
In my opinion, he's just shy of getting to the point where he would be ban-worthy. It's almost a balance of brokenness; he's not superior in the sense of Melee Fox or 64 Pikachu, because at least those characters had their sizeable flaws. MK has very few flaws.

He has quick attacks with very little startup and very little after-lag. He's a fast character, he has relatively strong attacks when not ridiculously spammed. He has great B moves and an over-the-top recovery that borders on the asinine. He's virtually ungimpable, has great priority, and is relatively easy to use. His only cons, if you can call them that, are his weight and his slight range disadvantage.

Looks like pretty much agree exactly.

Brinzy · Aug 24, 2008

lol, ditty.

adumbrodeus · Aug 24, 2008

VERY VERY finely nuanced, read the entire thing carefully otherwise don't respond!

I think if MK maintains his current position, in about a decade we should ban him.

Why should he be banned? Simple really, tournament diversity.

I'm sure a number of you are familiar with Sirlin's competitive gaming guide, there's a specific section I'd like to bring your attention to. What should be banned.

Take a look at the "The Two Excellent Examples of “Super Turbo”" section. Old Sagat is the most relevant, but both talk about the same issue.

Why is "broken beyond belief" generally a ban-worthy criteria, because it decreases tournament diversity to either, that character or that tactic. Everybody could just play that character, but then the rooster would essentially be that character.

Since the "broken beyond belief" critieria is really a specific level of decrease in tournament diversity, it stands to reason that certain characters and tactics, that while not broken beyond belief, still merit banning because they cause a large decrease in tournament diversity.

Here's where the Old Sagat example comes into play, he's soft banned in Japan, not because he's the best character (which is debatable), but because he significantly decreases character diversity. Multiple characters become almost inviable solely because of his presence on the tournament scene.

I'd argue that it's the same way with MK. Many of characters that would be tournament viable, are destroyed because of their disadvantage to MK. Granted, this is supposition because we don't really have a good match-up chart, but I expect that you'll find "characters MK counters at this point in the metagame" are at the bottom of the character rankings in general. Furthermore his field clearing was mostly responsable for Snake being temporarily the top character (and the fact that MKs didn't know how to deal with certain Snake play styles).

This is further evidenced by the fact that people can say things like that going even or even 60-40 disadvantageous match-up is good against MK. Again, lack of a reliable match-up chart makes this hard to discern, but by a general consensus he does seem to hard counter a lot of characters.

Interestingly enough, for a lot of characters, Brawl's counter-pick system helps with viability, so against a lot of hard-counter match-ups, you can counter-pick hard-counters to your opponent. For instance, a DK main could secondary Zelda because of DDD. Unfortunately for MK's hard counters, this just isn't viable because MK has no hard counters. Heck, he doesn't even have a confirmed soft counter. For that reason, you can't main a character that is hard-countered by Mk and expect to compete in tournaments, because that takes away too much time from a character that can compete with Mk, thus making it much harder to compete with the initial character (the one MK counters) as a main.

This decreases tournament diversity a great deal, so I think it would be prudent to ban Mk IF HE CAN KEEP DOING THIS WHEN THE METAGAME HAS MATURED ENOUGH TO BE SURE (give it a good 10 years).

Of course I understand, not everyone might agree that that any decrease in viable tournament diversity beyond "that character is the only viable character" is legitimate for banning. But one character versus several characters, I think it's a fair enough exchange.

In general, I take a "wait and see" attitude about this. Mk is ban-worthy NOW, but we have to wait and confirm that he is ban-worthy when the metagame has matured.

Morrigan · Aug 24, 2008

Scala said:
What I think should happen:
Metaknight should go on a temporary ban. Reintroduce him after the game has developed for all the characters and we'll see how well he does.

That's worse than fighting againST him, at least you learn the matchup a bit more.
If he's temporarily banned he'll start beating all the characters when he's back again because no one played against him in a long time.

Hype · Aug 24, 2008

the idea of banning him seems crazy to me, hes not that good.

Winston · Aug 24, 2008

Hype said:
the idea of banning him seems crazy to me, hes not that good.

Lol, how good is "that good" then?

does he have to have like an auto-win move or something?

SamuraiPanda · Aug 24, 2008

RDK said:
Stuff

I was not blaming you for anything. I was merely stating my reasons behind interpreting your post as a non-hypothetical. And again, I don't have anything against you, but the things you say sometimes instigate me to respond. Anybody could say something that I want to respond to... you just happen to say things like that more often than others.

Anyways, let me say this loud and clear:
Metaknight will not be banned in the foreseeable future. This thread is merely an outlet for those who wish to debate this matter.

As for those who bring up the "Shiek in early Melee" example, I must point out that nearly everybody (and I'm talking about top players here) is in agreement that Metaknight is far better than Shiek was in early Melee. Usually you expect the first characters who appear broken to be beatable with time. Snake has fallen significantly since people first thought he was "unbeatable" (which I still can't begin to fathom), and people have learned that matchup. The cry of the beginners at the "overpowering" spammable projectiles when the game was first released is something that we laugh at now. But this is where Metaknight becomes a bit disturbing. Instead of getting worse... he's gotten better. There are plenty of theories behind why this happened, but one thing is for sure: Thats not a good thing for the metagame.

But the solution to this is disturbingly simple. Wait it out. Keep playing the game, continue getting better, and deal with MK in strides. If there is a ceiling of improvement that MK hits, then he'll be beatable and all talk of banning him will stop once other characters get somewhere close to that ceiling (or possibly go beyond it). But if there is no ceiling of improvement for MK, and he continues to improve along with all the other characters without slowing down, then there might be serious talk about potentially banning him.

Keep in mind, though, that I'm talking far down the line. We're only 6 months into this game, people. If you think we're as advanced as we can go already, then you are dead wrong.

Scala · Aug 24, 2008

Enforcing a temporary MK ban would be simple:
Announce that MK is banned. If tournaments allow him, explain politely why he's banned, point to the official declaration of banning, or just play anyways allowing MK. If the majority of TOs ban MK, I don't think players would even bother becoming better at him since they can only use him at 25% of tournaments (random number).

Once MK's ban period is over, it's not going to be hard to spread the word regarding tournaments allowing him. If he was banned in the first place, the TO probably respects the decision to ban MK, and will respect the decision to unban MK as well. Otherwise, the player can just print off the unbanning declaration to be allowed into the tournament.

The reason why I think a temporary banning is needed so badly:
Metaknight is good, there's no doubt about that. Players are ditching other characters so that they can play MK since, well, he's good. As a result, MK's metagame is improving at a much faster rate than other characters. At this rate, he's going to continue to get better and better, while the other characters improve at a much slower rate. Since there is no sign of him slowing down, more and more players are going to start playing MK using the "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality. The temporary ban will allow everyone else's metagame to grow and catch up.

I wouldn't be surprised that after the ban is lifted that MK won't be the best character anymore.

metalmonstar · Aug 24, 2008

Dekuu said:
That's worse than fighting againST him, at least you learn the matchup a bit more.
If he's temporarily banned he'll start beating all the characters when he's back again because no one played against him in a long time.

Not neccessarily, if metaknight is banned or just not allowed at certain tournaments. Then Metaknight mains may become a bit rusty with their character. While others will develop and find new potential in their character. When reintroduced people will have a better understanding of their character and may be able to handle metaknights. It would just be interesting to see who becomes viable without metaknight.

Here is a three step process to banning metaknight
1. Finding out whether or not he has any cons
2. Finishing a matchup chart to see how badly metaknight owns the cast
3. Find out who becomes viable without metaknight around.

Once we have done those things we can decide whether metaknight should be banned.

ShadowLink84 · Aug 24, 2008

Adum believe ten years is rather steep.
Considering the transition from melee to brawl wasn't incredibly great, as well as the experiences we gained, i think the game will mature in a shorter amount of time.

RDK · Aug 24, 2008

SamuraiPanda said:
Tripe

Then we both agree that our entire argument was the product of a misunderstanding. That's fine.

Snake has fallen significantly since people first thought he was "unbeatable" (which I still can't begin to fathom), and people have learned that matchup.

As far as I'm concerned, I never considered Snake to be unbeatable in the slightest. It was, more than anything, his ridiculous attributes that made him unnecessarily advantageous. The kind of people who think he's a second Akuma are also the kind of people whose opinions I would normally not consider.

The cry of the beginners at the "overpowering" spammable projectiles when the game was first released is something that we laugh at now. But this is where Metaknight becomes a bit disturbing. Instead of getting worse... he's gotten better. There are plenty of theories behind why this happened, but one thing is for sure: Thats not a good thing for the metagame.

If the spamming of projectiles is suddenly managable, shouldn't it be expected that MK would be better? Surely if the problem of camping and spamming had become laughable at this point in the metagame, MK would benefit from that. He has no spammable projectiles.

But the solution to this is disturbingly simple. Wait it out. Keep playing the game, continue getting better, and deal with MK in strides. If there is a ceiling of improvement that MK hits, then he'll be beatable and all talk of banning him will stop once other characters get somewhere close to that ceiling (or possibly go beyond it). But if there is no ceiling of improvement for MK, and he continues to improve along with all the other characters without slowing down, then there might be serious talk about potentially banning him.

What is there to make you assume that there is a ceiling of improvement for him? And let's say for the sake of argument that there is--what's to say that the rest of the cast will suddenly reach his level? Whatever made that kind of change in character potential would have to be fairly groundbreaking.

Which is why I'm a proponent of the experimental tournament idea. Host a few tournaments sans-MK so that we might see a trend in roster drift.

Winston · Aug 24, 2008

SamuraiPanda said:
[/SIZE][/B]As for those who bring up the "Shiek in early Melee" example, I must point out that nearly everybody (and I'm talking about top players here) is in agreement that Metaknight is far better than Shiek was in early Melee. Usually you expect the first characters who appear broken to be beatable with time. Snake has fallen significantly since people first thought he was "unbeatable" (which I still can't begin to fathom), and people have learned that matchup.

Again, the general trend of early broken characters balancing themselves out over time usually happens because the engine of the game is deep and complicated. This isn't a straight-up melee-biased bash on brawl; I just think it's pretty clear that the skill and depth of brawl originate from places other than the engine/mechanics of the game.

I'm not saying that dominant tactics and playstyles won't change. I'm saying there won't be a paradigm shift.

Metaknight's near-brokenness doesn't come from a seemingly broken tactic, it's he actually has no weaknesses in terms of attributes. These two things are why I don't think it's that plausible that Meta will just fade back into fairness like Sheik and Snake did.

Like sure, obviously don't ban him now, we wait and see. I'm just trying to show why I think the sheik/snake analogies and the viewpoint that Metaknight will inevitably be balanced later on is flawed. I'm not sure if you share that view as I wasn't really sure what you were trying to say in your third to last paragraph.

-Nana- · Aug 24, 2008

The idea of banning Metaknigiht is ridiculous I really can't imagine why anyone would even possibly consider banning Metaknight at this point. The game is 6 months old. Metaknight has multiple flaws although he is easily the best at this point he is definately beatable and can be counterpicked as well. People should spend more time learning to exploit his weaknesses, find tactics that work well against MK and find more depth in this game instead of complaining.

adumbrodeus · Aug 24, 2008

ShadowLink84 said:
Adum believe ten years is rather steep.
Considering the transition from melee to brawl wasn't incredibly great, as well as the experiences we gained, i think the game will mature in a shorter amount of time.

Really we'll have to see, that's only an estimate.

I only cite it because that's about how long the Super Turbo community has been around, and it's acknowledged their metagame is quite mature, certainly mature enough to make decisions like this.

-Nana- said:
The idea of banning Metaknigiht is ridiculous I really can't imagine why anyone would even possibly consider banning Metaknight at this point. The game is 6 months old. Metaknight has multiple flaws although he is easily the best at this point he is definately beatable and can be counterpicked as well. People should spend more time learning to exploit his weaknesses, find tactics that work well against MK and find more depth in this game instead of complaining.

With what counters?

Regardless, everybody know MK is not going to be banned in the near future, this is hypothetical and dependent on him maintaining (or improving) his status as the metagame matures.

The "Metaknight should/will be banned" thread.

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