Another Glide Attack Counter?

TwinkleToes said:

I still hate u-tilt with a passion. I wish it had like... 2x as much damage and 3x as much knockback. Then it would be MARGINALLY useful as opposed to a complete joke.

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Poor utilt, treat it with care and maybe it works

I use it in this ways:
-Uair (first hit 3% not the second hit), then utilt
-Full dash, stop then utilt (at high % to kill, if not is a nonsense)
-dtilt, utilt (after this people will try to punish you in your lag, but dont panic...
Shield their fair/dair and grab LOL)
-Up throw, utilt (see above...)

Is a quick attack that deals 14% and kills at high % but have super horrible lag at the end. I really understand why do you hate it ... A Good-Bad move...

R4ZE said:

timing son. That is honestly like the number 2 way i kill mk's... number 1 being ceiling kills.


Fsmash definately has more range and priority than mk's glide attack. just sit and wind up ur fist while he is coming at you, and BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM . lol

its great. and i love it.

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really!? how many MK's have u killed with a up-tilted f-smash vs their glide attack?? cuz from my experience it just clangs and neutralizes as if they had the same amount of priority. i've played my friend a lot to know that it does. and i've done it more than once and i've never hit metaknight and i even charge it up most of the time (and yes i tilt it up) so idk if thats right =/

i rarely play MK's, but one i did play a while back my first KO was an fsmash through glide attack, still got the reply so im pretty sure its possible

and i still say utilt is a decent attack. its pretty good after you spotdodge a ledge get-up attack since a usmash might not be quick enough

One time I ***** peach with a jab @ 40% on FD. GO GO SONIC BOARDS!!! JAB > PEACH. EVERYONE GO TEST!

One time I charged my Dsmash all the way and broke jigglypuff's shield aka 0-death! Dsmash > Jigglypuff!!!!!

I can also throw out ridiculous 1 time scenarios that have 1000 options better than them.

Does that make them relevant???

(No offense to anyone, I am just tired of reading about incidents like the ones listed above)

sonics fsmash beats glide attack if timed correctly end of discussion.

ShadowLink84 said:

On an interesting note Sonic's Utilt has more priority than Peach's Dair.

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No, aerials do not have priority, like ground attacks and specials do. I think in Up-tlit, Sonic's shoes just do a good job of protecting his face (ie. there's not much hurtbox there), and once his hitbox overlaps Peach's Dair any she gets hurt.

That being said, I'm curious to understand this VSDJ > MK glide-attack thing. I didn't think a glide attack could clank with anything, except a perfect shield which isn't a clank. Though it would pass through invincibility frames, obv. But maybe glides count as Specials in this sense, and so they do have intrinsic priority?

ROOOOY! said:

Hop of Side B = no hurtbox frames. (a few frames, not the whole hop)
It's all hitbox though. It should go through pretty much anything.

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Yep. But a VSDJ out of side-B does not have side-B mechanics, correct? Does it have a moment of invincible hitbox?

Tenki said:

MK's glide attack is really reminiscent of Zelda's Din's Fire, since it looks like (at least, for Sonic) any aerial attackbox will clang with it, and any 'renewing' or multiple hit attack will outprioritize it.

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Now I'm totally lost. You can clank with Din's Fire? (Do you actually mean the fireball or does she have a separate hitbox on her person as well, perhaps with different properties?)

Tenki said:

Grounded Mach Tornado has crappy priority and over half of Sonic's moves can either clang-cancel or outprioritize it.

I'd be surprised if you could beat a rising tornado with it. The only things I know of that can beat that are well-placed aerials (specifically, D-air), and falling springs.

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Whoah, Tornado has different priority in air than on ground? Weird.
I think Sonic's Bair near the top can hit him out of it. Actually, I guess any hitbox that can get inside the top a bit should work, but there might be a % damage amount that's required to actually interrupt the tornado.

ROOOOY! said:

(Discussing Up-tilt) I don't use it myself really, SH Uair works better for me.

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They're useful in different situations. I see Up-tilt as a ground defense, whereas SH Uair is a riskier attack that takes longer to start-up. I see Uair as having more chance to trade hits if a disjointed hitbox comes your way.

But I could be wrong, I don't main Sonic ...... yet. So curious if I'm just doing it wrong

Well to refer to one part of your post, some people got confused and though VSDJ has similar properties to the hop in Side B.

I don't know the specifics myself, as I've seen VSDJ go through some things, but I don't believe it gets the same kind of priority that Spin Dash gets.

R4ZE said:

sonics fsmash beats glide attack if timed correctly end of discussion.

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Sonic's F-smash beats glide attack if placed correctly. MK can still come above you, and if it's out at the same time and MK is low enough, glide attack will cause Sonic to flinch back (clang-cancelled)

infzy said:

No, aerials do not have priority, like ground attacks and specials do. I think in Up-tlit, Sonic's shoes just do a good job of protecting his face (ie. there's not much hurtbox there), and once his hitbox overlaps Peach's Dair any she gets hurt.

That being said, I'm curious to understand this VSDJ > MK glide-attack thing. I didn't think a glide attack could clank with anything, except a perfect shield which isn't a clank. Though it would pass through invincibility frames, obv. But maybe glides count as Specials in this sense, and so they do have intrinsic priority?



Yep. But a VSDJ out of side-B does not have side-B mechanics, correct? Does it have a moment of invincible hitbox?

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Tenki said:

it's the same freakin move.

jump while charging = vertical spindash jump (regardless of sideb/downb)

jump while rolling = normal spindash jump (regardless of sideb/downb)


both of them have the same exact properties, except jumping from a charge has well... no initial momentum.

MK's glide attack is really reminiscent of Zelda's Din's Fire, since it looks like (at least, for Sonic) any aerial attackbox will clang with it, and any 'renewing' or multiple hit attack will outprioritize it.

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That is to say that the jump from a roll or charge has no invincibility frames, but covers Sonic with an attack aura/hitbox.

infzy said:

Now I'm totally lost. You can clank with Din's Fire? (Do you actually mean the fireball or does she have a separate hitbox on her person as well, perhaps with different properties?)

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The actual fireball. Aerial clangs don't cancel each other like grounded moves would, but they neutralize the attack box (much like shielding Wario's D-smash, or Pikachu's Thunder) so winning out in an aerial clang game basically a matter of which aerial has more hits/reaches the opponent hurtbox first. Aerials can, however, cancel grounded moves. So if I'm doing an upsmash at the same time Zelda explodes Din's Fire, they'll clang and my upsmash gets cancelled.

For example, MK's side-B vs Sonic's F-air: Each individual hit of MK's side-B will clang with each individual hit of Sonic's F-air. However, Sonic's F-air covers almost his entire body, whereas MK's side-B only protects the front, so Sonic can F-air against it until MK travels far enough forward so that he hits MK's body.

infzy said:

Whoah, Tornado has different priority in air than on ground? Weird.
I think Sonic's Bair near the top can hit him out of it. Actually, I guess any hitbox that can get inside the top a bit should work, but there might be a % damage amount that's required to actually interrupt the tornado.

...

But I could be wrong, I don't main Sonic ...... yet. So curious if I'm just doing it wrong

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Mach Tornado has better priority as it rises / as MK player taps B.

Also, stop making cases for Sonic in the weekly char discussion lol.

infzy said:

Yep. But a VSDJ out of side-B does not have side-B mechanics, correct? Does it have a moment of invincible hitbox?



They're useful in different situations. I see Up-tilt as a ground defense, whereas SH Uair is a riskier attack that takes longer to start-up. I see Uair as having more chance to trade hits if a disjointed hitbox comes your way.

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Way to make me look silly. I wasn't actually talking about VSDJ at the time, DJBrowny mentioned that side B went through G&W's turtle, and I just agreed saying that side B goes through anything, as it doesn't have a hurtbox.
It's alright though <3
And for the up-tilt thing, u-air doesn't have nasty ending lag. That and Utilt doesn't have a lot of range, only just above his head is where the hitbox is. U-air in comparison has good horizontal and vertical range (second kick especially), so if they airdodge to the side when they see you attacking they'll be hit by the second kick, whereas with uptilt you're just going to get punished.

infzy said:

No, aerials do not have priority, like ground attacks and specials do. I think in Up-tlit, Sonic's shoes just do a good job of protecting his face (ie. there's not much hurtbox there), and once his hitbox overlaps Peach's Dair any she gets hurt.

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ground priority works based on damage. if there is a difference in ten damae one move will break the other. if the difference is less than 10 then they will clank or cancel each other. The exception to this is multihitting moves.


Aerials work based on range, hitbox/hurtbox ratio and speed and timing.

Luig's Nair breaks alot of other ground attacks.

Thanks for the info Tenki! I hadn't known that aerials could be intercepted like that. I'll have to test it out later, since I've never seen it happen... if I can just time an attack against that darn spammy Zeldafire to cancel it, that'd be quite nice

ROOOOY! said:

Way to make me look silly. I wasn't actually talking about VSDJ at the time, DJBrowny mentioned that side B went through G&W's turtle, and I just agreed saying that side B goes through anything, as it doesn't have a hurtbox.
It's alright though <3

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Eeks, I didn't mean to imply that you thought wrong. I was just asking for clarification for my own sake, and to further the discussion. :3 hehe

ROOOOY! said:

And for the up-tilt thing, u-air doesn't have nasty ending lag. That and Utilt doesn't have a lot of range, only just above his head is where the hitbox is. U-air in comparison has good horizontal and vertical range (second kick especially), so if they airdodge to the side when they see you attacking they'll be hit by the second kick, whereas with uptilt you're just going to get punished.

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I know U-air doesn't have ending lag, it's the startup of a SH to Uair that takes longer than Up-tilt, I find I just use the two in quite different situations. Up-tilt if I think they're coming at me from the air, and up-air if I'm juggling, or in a combo or something. I'm not used to the hitboxes though, you say Up-air has good horizontal range eh?? I'll have to get a much deeper feel of Sonic before I comment anymore

ShadowLink84 said:

ground priority works based on damage. if there is a difference in ten damae one move will break the other. if the difference is less than 10 then they will clank or cancel each other. The exception to this is multihitting moves.

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:freak: are you serious? Well, holy freaking crap. The Physics of Attacks thread is massively out of date, I guess. Anyone have good sources for this kind of info? Have I just missed all the good threads?

ShadowLink84 said:

Aerials work based on range, hitbox/hurtbox ratio and speed and timing.

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Heh, I thought aerials were just based on hitbox/hurtbox, not speed etc.... but I'm getting sch00led. Thanks!

Well speed I am unsure of I am sure range is factored into it.

Ground priority was found by PEEF who mentioned it on AIB. owever as I said a few things are exceptions to this, Pikachu's Dsmash being an example.
Can't see why.

ShadowLink84 said:

Well speed I am unsure of I am sure range is factored into it.

Ground priority was found by PEEF who mentioned it on AIB. owever as I said a few things are exceptions to this, Pikachu's Dsmash being an example.
Can't see why.

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Speed sort of matters because if you have a multi hit move that clangs with another one, then the other one will hit between yours. Case in example: MK Tornado and Sonic's F-air. Tornado hits much faster and has a larger attackbox range when done rising.

Also, even if Sonic's F-air clangs+outprioritizes MK's glide attack, jumping when you're slightly in glide attack's range won't always work too well because it comes out instantly, whereas F-air has startup lag.

Pikachu's D-smash could be different because it has a pretty high range, and also because it's electric, and electric moves seem to win against physical hitboxes pretty often.

it jsut doesent extend pikachu's hurtbox that much.. .thats all. probobly the main problem with sonic is that his hurt box is almost even with his hitbox most of the time.