Peach Tactic: Fitting two aerials into one short hop.

Not sure how "advanced" this is but I was flirting with Peach in training mode and I realized this should be a pretty good tactic against lots of shield grabbers. This actually ***** if I do say so myself.

What you want to do is do a down air or up air. Sorry, this trick does not work with forward air or back air, or neutral air -they have too much lag/length of the move is too log for a short hop. But down air is good enough, honestly.

Basically, do a short hop down air, up air. Then as soon as you do the move, start holding your float out. Guess what, the timing is exactly so you will float right before you land. You basically did a short hop aerial into a ground float. Well guess why this is awesome? If you do this and float right after your aerial, you can proceed with another aerial REAL fast. This basically lets you follow up an attack after short hop aerial much like you can follow up an aerial after another aerial while already floating. It doesn't seem like much, but I find that short hop down air---> ground float neutral air works REALLY well when you shield someones attack and want to do a follow up real quick, they always try to shield grab, but since you had no landing animation, your move comes out MUCHHHH faster than normal.

As instant as Peach's aerials are, there IS still landing lag on them (someone correct me if I"m wrong) so this is a huge huge mind game as you will have the frame advantages necessary to avoid being grabbed with this approach. When you float no one will try to grab you anyway since they know you can follow another down air, so they continue to shield, but this basically mind games them into dropping their shield. What do you guys think, I hope people understand because I really am liking this so far.

Now that I just thought about, you could combine this with peach's DOUBLE HIT back air and nuetral air for massive shield breaking or damage as well.

Just note that the benefit to this is basically, you get the benefit of aerials that you normally get while floating, but Peach is MUCH more mobile and tricky (less predictable) because you don't have to float at your opponent, you can short hop a down air at them, and increase the number of approaches you have making Peach less predictable. This isn't a godsend tactic but a great addition to mix up any of Peach's approaches.

i bet with this u could deffinatly do some good fair to what ever combos. oo oo oo i got one ill try it out in a sec
uair->float->fair->glidetoss->fthrow

wait i forgot u cant uair with a turnip in hand -.-

im messing around and heres what i got so far i know its unrelated but oh well i kinda branched off

zdrop->footstool->dair->nair->ftilt->utilt PK KOMBO!!

I've probably done something like this accidently but I never payed it any notice. This is very interesting find indeed. After trying out what you said, I managed to U throw, Uair, Ground float and then Double Nair on a still opponent in Training mode. I found I needed to use a U throw because the Uair wouldn't hit them because they were below Peach on the ground. Dair to float works too but it's much trickier to pull off because you have to start the Dair almost as soon as you Short Hop

Oh and you do get the usual landing lag after perfoming say a Fair whilst floating and you then let go of your float. However, if you land correctly at the right time (believe it's not hard to do) then Peach's auto cancel kicks in and you won't get lag


So yea. Excellent find Edreese

EdreesesPieces said:

As instant as Peach's aerials are, there IS still landing lag on them (someone correct me if I"m wrong) so this is a huge huge mind game as you will have the frame advantages necessary to avoid being grabbed with this approach.

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You're correct about the landing lag:

Nair:
First hits on frame 3
Landing lag: 11
Hit lag: 9 (first hit)
Shield stun: 12 (first hit)
Advantage: -8

Dair:
First hits on frame 12
Landing lag: 9
Hit lag: 6 (last hit)
Shield stun: 7 (last hit)
Advantage: -8

Fair:
First hits on frame 16
Landing lag: 22 (auto-cancels on frame 20 and after)
Hit lag: 9
Shield stun: 13
Advantage: -18 (if auto-canceled, advantage is 0)

Bair:
First hits on frame 6
Landing lag: 9
Hit lag: 10 (first hit)
Shield stun: 15 (first hit)
Advantage: -4

Uair:
First hits on frame 8
Landing lag: 9
Hit lag: 9
Shield stun: 11
Advantage: -7

I'm not sure about the auto-cancel windows for other aerials - I only checked out Fair because I noticed that it auto-canceled very soon after the hit box appears. Also, I haven't really checked out how many frames each move lasts. Specifically, I don't know how many frames there be between the last hit of a SH Dair and a floated Nair. I doubt that there would be a frame advantage, but it might be a small enough disadvantage that any move out of shield could still be interrupted with the floated Nair.

I'm not entirely sure about the data I've collected for shield stun; but generally, the shield stun in Brawl is MUCH lower than in melee, which is why "pillaring" with Peach is absolutely TERRIBLE in Brawl. The technique you're mentioning in this thread may have some legitimate pressure potential, but Nair --> Jab is not good. Auto-canceled Fairs are the best when it comes to the trade off between shield stun and landing lag.

I will try to check out how much of a frame advantage/disadvantage there is with the technique mentioned here, but it might be a couple of days before I get a chance to do so.

Huh, very interesting, I'll have to try that out. That's what I love about Peach though: she's so bloody versatile :].


And that's some very interesting data 3GOD. This may be a stupid question but if you hit a shield with your bair and then land on the next frame, wouldn't you be able to move before your opponent (9 landing lag to 15 shield lag)? Just trying to make sure I understand it .

awesome, now I will punish donkey kong.

3GOD said:

You're correct about the landing lag:

Nair:
First hits on frame 3
Landing lag: 11
Hit lag: 9 (first hit)
Shield stun: 12 (first hit)
Advantage: -8

Dair:
First hits on frame 12
Landing lag: 9
Hit lag: 6 (last hit)
Shield stun: 7 (last hit)
Advantage: -8

Fair:
First hits on frame 16
Landing lag: 22 (auto-cancels on frame 20 and after)
Hit lag: 9
Shield stun: 13
Advantage: -18 (if auto-canceled, advantage is 0)

Bair:
First hits on frame 6
Landing lag: 9
Hit lag: 10 (first hit)
Shield stun: 15 (first hit)
Advantage: -4

Uair:
First hits on frame 8
Landing lag: 9
Hit lag: 9
Shield stun: 11
Advantage: -7

I'm not sure about the auto-cancel windows for other aerials - I only checked out Fair because I noticed that it auto-canceled very soon after the hit box appears. Also, I haven't really checked out how many frames each move lasts. Specifically, I don't know how many frames there be between the last hit of a SH Dair and a floated Nair. I doubt that there would be a frame advantage, but it might be a small enough disadvantage that any move out of shield could still be interrupted with the floated Nair.

I'm not entirely sure about the data I've collected for shield stun; but generally, the shield stun in Brawl is MUCH lower than in melee, which is why "pillaring" with Peach is absolutely TERRIBLE in Brawl. The technique you're mentioning in this thread may have some legitimate pressure potential, but Nair --> Jab is not good. Auto-canceled Fairs are the best when it comes to the trade off between shield stun and landing lag.

I will try to check out how much of a frame advantage/disadvantage there is with the technique mentioned here, but it might be a couple of days before I get a chance to do so.

Click to expand...

THANK YOU!!!! You're the best! I appreciate that a LOT. How are you able to get this data without action replay? This is extremely informative as we can find out the best way to apply pressure with the least likelihood of getting shield grabbed.

That sounds like something worth being able to do, Edrees.

3GOD, what method did you use to collect your frame data? Wow, her nair is extremely fast and the bair shield stun will be good to keep in mind. I'd really like to be able to do some testing like this, but don't know how.

If you find and opportunity where you can crossover -- SHDair Crossover -> Floated Bair -> Dtilt/Dsmash would probably shield stab while being pretty safe. A turnaround grab might be within the frame advantage.

I guess since we're putting in shield pressure tactics... I'll add mine.

Fair tip their shield, land the autocancel and dtilt immediately. If it whiffs, spotdodge right after the dtilt and you slide a bit backwards. Pretty **** safe and it shieldstabs... and dtilt has stun on it.

hotgarbage said:

And that's some very interesting data 3GOD. This may be a stupid question but if you hit a shield with your bair and then land on the next frame, wouldn't you be able to move before your opponent (9 landing lag to 15 shield lag)? Just trying to make sure I understand it .

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Well, you also suffer from 10 frames of hit lag (perhaps I should call this shield hit lag). Basically, when your Bair hits the shield, you will be in hit lag for 10 frames, then land on the next frame and suffer landing lag for 9 frames. From the moment your Bair hit the opponent, they were stuck in their shield (unable to do any action) for 15 frames. Peach's total lag is 19 frames while the opponent suffers 15 frames of shield stun. This gives Peach a 4-frames disadvantage. However, a 4-frame disadvantage isn't too bad since grabs come out in 6 frames (for the faster grabs in the game)...even with a 4-frame disadvantage, it's probably still possible to roll away to safety or possibly even jab a shield grab attempt.

EdreesesPieces said:

THANK YOU!!!! You're the best! I appreciate that a LOT. How are you able to get this data without action replay? This is extremely informative as we can find out the best way to apply pressure with the least likelihood of getting shield grabbed.

Click to expand...

I capture the video using a lossless codec and then deinterlace it to count frames. Things like shield stun are hard to test since I'm usually stuck recording by myself - this is why I'm not entirely sure of the accuracy of these figures.

Villi said:

3GOD, what method did you use to collect your frame data? Wow, her nair is extremely fast and the bair shield stun will be good to keep in mind. I'd really like to be able to do some testing like this, but don't know how.

Click to expand...

See above comments...if you guys would like more details, I'll do my best to explain them.

Gea said:

I guess since we're putting in shield pressure tactics... I'll add mine.

Fair tip their shield, land the autocancel and dtilt immediately. If it whiffs, spotdodge right after the dtilt and you slide a bit backwards. Pretty **** safe and it shieldstabs... and dtilt has stun on it.

Click to expand...

I like it. I haven't really been using Dtilt that much, but I should since it shieldstabs well.

I propose we call this find the "Hip Drop". Peach uses her hips in all of these aerials to create a force so sexy and power that nobody can stop her. "Hip" for the movement, and "Drop" to imply the power in it, and as a general term for how she slightly falls on the consecutive hit. It's like she does a regular aerial, then falls on you and grinds one more in. Example of usage- “I see your Peach is really good at Hip Dropping aerials.” / “ I should have Hit Dropped that aerial on you!”/ Do you know how to Hip Drop with Peach?”/ I think I got the Hip Drop down.”

So yeah, Hip Drop! How about it guys?

SH Dair --> Floated aerial gives the opponent an advantage of 8 frames; that is, the opponent can do something (Up-B, Jump, Usmash, Grab, Roll, Dodge, or Drop Shield) 8 frames before you can initiate the 2nd aerial attack (the floated aerial).

This is enough to get shield grabbed, so you'd need to do this as a crossover for sure. Also, some Up-B's will be able to hit you before you can do your floated aerial attack. However, it's still a pretty good tactic against some characters.