MysticKenji
Smash Master
Hm.
I may as well just edit my post, then.
...
That certainly doesn't look like everyone to me.
It's not even a very large amount.
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The Lucario Shrine
- Thread starter kaid
- Start date
I may as well just edit my post, then.
It's not even a very large amount.
Your Hero
Smash Champion
Was that defending me? If so then thank..you..o.O
kaid
Smash Master
And yet, there's only two of you. Three with black/light.
Your Hero
Smash Champion
We're not the only ones that don't want him in brawl. I've seen others post their dislike for lucario.
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
Really? OK then...ASHLEY WILL NOT BE IN BRAWL LOLOLOL
Sorry, I just had to do that.
-------------------------
On-topic, if people don't like Lucario, that's their opinion and they're entitled to it. Those against Lucario are against him, and they're nothing we can do to convince them. I am a Lucario supporter and I also support other characters that people don't like (ala Shy Guy and Jimmy T.). But please don't argue over who does and who doesn't like Lucario. Opinions are unchangeable by words. Wait until release, and then anti-Lucarioists will see his Lucario-ey pwnage.
kaid
Smash Master
Commander, do you wish to be added to the first post?
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
Yessir. Lucario wins all.
Princess Diana
Amazon
If he does get released then i know who i will be using in practice mode... alot...
I don't see the point of saying that ashley won't be in brawl, you can't claim any facts i have never once said "lucario will not be in brawl" because i know that I'm not going to eat my words like some people did with Pokemon Trainer. >_>; I bet lucario will be a fox clone or something if he does get in...
Sasori's_Shadow
Smash Apprentice
He wasn't responding to the opinions in your post, rather these two statements (which aren't opinions, I might add):
and
And really, what did you expect? You don't at all sound like you know what you're talking about. At the very least you could expect a rebuttal. If you ask me, I'd say your post almost merits a mocking response. And if you're still scratching your head as to what I'm talking about, let me explain:
Lucario's design is far from a copy of Mewtwo's. The only similarity in their designs is that they're both humanoid, and the similarities end there. Other than that, they're very, very different. Mewtwo has what look like two small, underdeveloped horns on his head (which could be ears of some sort I don't know), and Lucario has very long, pointed ears. Mewtwo has a three-fingered hand; Lucario has a paw with a spike protruding from the back it. Their tails are completely different, and Lucario has virtually no neck compared to Mewtwo. Not to mention their color schemes are almost complete opposites.
Secondly, Lucario is a great Pokemon in the games. He's not fast enough to sweep, but he has great stats for a non-legendary and a good move-pool to go along with those stats. According to Serebii, he's got the 43rd best overall stats among non-legendaries, which is very impressive considering there are around 500 Pokemon overall.
So saying that Lucario's design is the same as Mewtwo's and that he's a bad Pokemon is ridiculous. If you don't like him, fine, you're entitled to your opinions, just don't go beyond that if you don't know what you're talking about.
Your Hero
Smash Champion
he meant the attack design. The fact that he uses the same aura/magic as mewtwo. The only difference to lucario is that he has fighting moves as well, but other than that he'll have the same moves as mewtwo.
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
You say this because Lucario is a fox
Lucario has a very broad range of posssible attacks, both projectile and physical. Saying he would be a Fox clone is like saying Bowser Jr. would be a Bowser clone.
Princess Diana
Amazon
wow their color schemes are different and he has a spike on his paw that is soooo original. To you he may seem like the farthest thing away from mewtwo but to me he's a stupid rip off. that's called... an opinion ha!
Don't imply that I'm ignorant. You do not know how stupid or how intelligent I am so don't say I don't know what I'm talking about. lucario has horrible speed and horrible defenses. He's weak to common attacking types. He can't even take hits that he has a resistance to and you'll have to bring him in against bug or dark type attacks. Then what can he do with his mediocre attacking stats... Lucario needs some choice specs to be taking out Blissey with aura sphere and even then its the most predictable thing he could do. He can go with physical sets but most physically defensive pokemon resist or take neutral damage from Close Combat. A pokemon like Hippowdon completely walls a physical lucario and a special one is quickly defeated due to him being so slow. LIEK OMGZ He's the 43rd pokemon with the highest base stat out of 439, considering the fact that most of them are pokemon that aren't fully evolved yet.
You, are the one who shouldn't be going beyond opinions if you don't know what you're talking about. Not me
I still don't understand how people think he has a broad range of possible attacks... And don't post the freaking serebii moveset like some people have cause even though he can learn water pulse and sand attack (I'm not sure about this one but WHATEVER) you all know he won't be using them just like jigglypuff isn't using flamethrower and ice beam. It just wont' look good.You say this because Lucario is a fox
Lucario has a very broad range of posssible attacks, both projectile and physical. Saying he would be a Fox clone is like saying Bowser Jr. would be a Bowser clone.
Collective of Bears
King of Hug Style
He has Aura Sphere, Close Combat, Bone Rush, Hi Jump Kick, Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Sky Uppercut, Extremespeed, Detect, and Counter all naturally and all could be possible moves, special or standard.
Princess Diana
Amazon
Aura Sphere Aka Shadow Ball
Close Combat... what the heck will this be? A bunch of A moves?
Bone Rush Aka Link's Boomerang
Hi Jump Kick - Another A Move
Dark Pulse/Dragon Pulse- Probably the only original move he could muster up
Sky Uppercut- Dolphin Slash
extreme Speed- Fox Illusion
Detect/Counter- Marth and Roy's counters
I seriously seriously cannot see any original moves on mewtwo
Your Hero
Smash Champion
Mewtwo has aura sphere, any PC has close combat, the rest either blaziken [another desired pokemon that was wanted for brawl] or Rayquaza (who will most likely be a boss) have the rest of those.
Sasori's_Shadow
Smash Apprentice
To be honest, I'm not sure how to respond to this. STATING that Lucario's design is a copy of Mewtwo's is not by any means an opinion.
And it's not my opinion nor is it my view that Lucario's design is different than Mewtwo's, you only need to look at the two to realize that it's a fact. The only similarities between Mewtwo and Lucario is that they're both humanoid, and there's a truckload of differences. I think I may have already pointed that out though.
First off, I wasn't intentionally implying that you're ignorant. I may have come across that way, and if so I apologize.
Anyways, I know Lucario isn't extremely effective in the metagame, but we weren't discussing competitive play. You simply stated that Lucario is a bad Pokemon, which is a very general statement ,and generally speaking it isn't at all true.
And you can take this any way you want to, but I'd suggest maybe being more specific in your posts. If only to avoid a misunderstanding like this, because it really wasn't necessary.
MysticKenji
Smash Master
Lucario Moveset
Power: ***
Movement Speed: ****
Attack Speed: ****
Weight: ****
Jump: ****
Floatiness: *
Traction: ****
Size: ***
Recovery: **
Range: ***
Jab: Bullet Punches
Dash Attack: Metal Claw
Ftilt: A right-handed punch
Utilt: A weak uppercut
Dtilt: A downwards punch
FSmash: Force Palm
Lucario slams his palm forwards at an opponent
USmash: Metal Claw
Lucario uses the spikes on his hands to slice opponents
DSmash: Earthquake
Lucario stomps the ground, summoning a small tremor and turning the area around him into a hitbox
Grab: Vacuum Wave
A: A weak punch
Fthrow: Focus Punch
Bthrow: Fling
Uthrow:SHORYUKEN Sky Uppercut
Dthrow: Iron Tail
Nair: Cross Chop: Lucario does a double karate chop. Sweetspot at the tip of Luke's fingers.
Fair: Crunch: Luke leans forward and crunches w/e's in front of him.
This move has the ability to destroy small projectiles and can be charged.
Bair: Iron Tail: Luke swipes his backwards. Powerful
Uair: Stone Edge: Luke's paw spikes gain a drak brown aura, and he slashes up with them 5 times
Dair: Hi Jump Kick: Luke jumps, and flies down at a 45 degree angle wth his foot out. It drags enemies down with you.
B: Detect
Luke's eyes glint, and any attack headed at him will be repelled. This attack is short (~4 frames), so timing is key
>B: Aura Sphere
Standard Aura Sphere is standard. Not much to say here. Non-chargeable, does about 10% and is as fast as Samus's Charge Shot.
^B: Extremespeed
See Aura Sphere comment and Fox's >B
VB: Option 1: Metal Sound
A screech that stops the opponent from moving for a few frames. Good for those with fast reflexes to exploit those frames.
VB: Option 2: Counter
Counter is counter is counter. Blah.
VB: Option 3: Dragon/Dark/Water Pulse
Lucario sends out a shock wave of energy around with changing effects
Dragon Pulse is the strongest and has no extras
Dark Pulse is medium strength and can stun the opponent
Water Pulse is the weakest, but has a chance of switching the functions of the buttons for standard and special attacks.
FS: Close Combat
Lucario traps an opponent using Aura and hits them with a barrage of punches and kicks.
I'll improve it tomorrow. Later.
Power: ***
Movement Speed: ****
Attack Speed: ****
Weight: ****
Jump: ****
Floatiness: *
Traction: ****
Size: ***
Recovery: **
Range: ***
Jab: Bullet Punches
Dash Attack: Metal Claw
Ftilt: A right-handed punch
Utilt: A weak uppercut
Dtilt: A downwards punch
FSmash: Force Palm
Lucario slams his palm forwards at an opponent
USmash: Metal Claw
Lucario uses the spikes on his hands to slice opponents
DSmash: Earthquake
Lucario stomps the ground, summoning a small tremor and turning the area around him into a hitbox
Grab: Vacuum Wave
A: A weak punch
Fthrow: Focus Punch
Bthrow: Fling
Uthrow:
Dthrow: Iron Tail
Nair: Cross Chop: Lucario does a double karate chop. Sweetspot at the tip of Luke's fingers.
Fair: Crunch: Luke leans forward and crunches w/e's in front of him.
This move has the ability to destroy small projectiles and can be charged.
Bair: Iron Tail: Luke swipes his backwards. Powerful
Uair: Stone Edge: Luke's paw spikes gain a drak brown aura, and he slashes up with them 5 times
Dair: Hi Jump Kick: Luke jumps, and flies down at a 45 degree angle wth his foot out. It drags enemies down with you.
B: Detect
Luke's eyes glint, and any attack headed at him will be repelled. This attack is short (~4 frames), so timing is key
>B: Aura Sphere
Standard Aura Sphere is standard. Not much to say here. Non-chargeable, does about 10% and is as fast as Samus's Charge Shot.
^B: Extremespeed
See Aura Sphere comment and Fox's >B
VB: Option 1: Metal Sound
A screech that stops the opponent from moving for a few frames. Good for those with fast reflexes to exploit those frames.
VB: Option 2: Counter
Counter is counter is counter. Blah.
VB: Option 3: Dragon/Dark/Water Pulse
Lucario sends out a shock wave of energy around with changing effects
Dragon Pulse is the strongest and has no extras
Dark Pulse is medium strength and can stun the opponent
Water Pulse is the weakest, but has a chance of switching the functions of the buttons for standard and special attacks.
FS: Close Combat
Lucario traps an opponent using Aura and hits them with a barrage of punches and kicks.
I'll improve it tomorrow. Later.
Boofer
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2007
- Messages
- 755
Aura Sphere is like Lucario's signature move, correct? In the game, mewtwo doesn't learn it until lvl 100.
Your Hero
Smash Champion
But mewtwo still used it in melee, and mewtwo will most likely stay with the same moveset.
Boofer
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2007
- Messages
- 755
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Aura Sphere and Shadowball were completely different moves? Was shadowball an actual move on the game or was it just made up for smash?
If they are different moves then they could give them different properties. Maybe they can make Lucario's aura sphere controllable or homing?
Your Hero
Smash Champion
It would still be the same basically.. just that one PC has the same attack but better than the other :\
Boofer
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2007
- Messages
- 755
Well, they can easily give each version of the move a different appearance and effects. Lucario's version wouldn't necessarily be better either; they could easily give it little knock back or less damage. But I do agree that having such a similar move does hurt the chances of having both characters in the game. Honestly, I just want another pokemon rep after jigs and mewtwo.
Your Hero
Smash Champion
There's no point in another pokemon rep. The new pokemon rep is already PT. I wouldn't mind lucario being a pokeball though, and I don't know if mewtwo is confirmed yet. JigglyPuff is [they actually tell you when you preorder the game; the description of the game actually states jigglypuff is in lol].
Boofer
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2007
- Messages
- 755
Well, that's your opinion. True, we don't need another pokemon rep, but I'd like one. That's my opinion. I just think pokemon was such a big franchise that it could use another rep. What's one more character for what I hear is the second biggest nintendo franchise. I'd say that having 5 reps is certainly a possibility, considering we had four in melee (even in pichu's absence).
Your Hero
Smash Champion
I think it's fine atm. 4 reps, whereone of the reps is 3 in one is good enough. That's about 6 different movesets, which is more than what mario has (Peach, Mario, Bowser, Luigi, Yoshi)
EDIT: Mario being the number one franchise [forgot to add that haha]
EDIT: Mario being the number one franchise [forgot to add that haha]
Boofer
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2007
- Messages
- 755
Actually, don't forget that Yoshi is part of his own franchise. But if you think about it, some other characters can almost be considered part of the mario universe, even though they have their own icon. For example: everybody that was in mario party/mario cart can almost be considered part of the mario universe. The way I see it, if pikachu were to have his own spinoff and franchise logo, I'd still consider him somewhat part of the pokemon universe. In the case with mario, Mario has become so big and popular that those characters from the universe got their own franchises imo.
As for Pokemon Trainer, lets not forget that though he does consist of 3 movesets, you are forced to switch between pokemon. He is still, imo, one character. And he only takes up one spot on the dojo, whereas people like Zamus and Samus have separate spots.
Your Hero
Smash Champion
Zamus and Samus dont have seperate spots? Not that's confirmed on the site anyways.
Also I never said anything about PT being 3 reps, I only said he has 3 different movesets. Yoshi does have his own game series, but he co-stars in it with baby mario. Either way, in super smash he's represented as a mario rep. Wario on the other hand is representing his own game series, even though he is originally from mario.
kaid
Smash Master
^Might I point out that, if you count Yoshi, you might as well count DK as well?
In Melee, Mario had 5 characters, and Zelda and Pokemon had 4 each. Pokemon was MORE popular, but Zelda had Shiek in as an added extra, showing that additional movesets for a character dont count. So PT (and possibly samus/zamus, as well as Zelda) only count as single characters, however many movesets they had.
In Melee, Mario had 5 characters, and Zelda and Pokemon had 4 each. Pokemon was MORE popular, but Zelda had Shiek in as an added extra, showing that additional movesets for a character dont count. So PT (and possibly samus/zamus, as well as Zelda) only count as single characters, however many movesets they had.
Your Hero
Smash Champion
Like I said, Wario is in brawl representing his series of Warioware. That allows DK to represent his series of..Donkey Kong, which is why diddy is in.
Also you forget about all the representation of pokemon from the pokeball item.
kaid
Smash Master
Pokemon was still twice the number of characters of any series other than the big 3, BEFORE Assist Trophies were added.
Saph66
Smash Journeyman
I'm sorry, but I have to say that you're a ******. All the things that you said weren't original are pretty original. You're just saying the moves are alike to those other moves just because they may look the same, but its different. The fact that you say "oh more A moves" is so stupid. This is a fighting game. All attacks in this game require melee attacks, special moves or not, which COULD be A moves, so your point is so vague and dumb.
Black/Light
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 23, 2006
- Messages
- 3,207
Hummm, what are you talking about?
If I remember correctly I have seen official describetions of melee that cleary stated that there are 26 characters (clearly counting Sheik) and even wiki agrees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._Melee
Mario and LoZ both had 5 characters and metroid has 2 . . . I have no idea how you get off claiming they don't count as characters (or where you get this "proof" from). Once Mewtwo is confirmed back like Jpuff we will have 6 Playable pokemon nomatter how you see characters/ slots/ "reps. . . . if thats all we get and you think there should be more than fight all the pokemon you want in Pokemon Rev.
Really, saying Zero aint a character. . .expected more from you
Wu Tang Gang
Smash Ace
Saying that movesets count as characters must mean that clones aren't characters. If they have the same moveset as another guy, that must mean by your logic, they aren't a character.
Black/Light
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 23, 2006
- Messages
- 3,207
Umm, gots no idle where this came from
If you don't think Zero or Sheik are characters than thats you homs. I never said having a move-set 95% like another character makes said clone not a character. All clones clearly have stat and appearance differences compared to the character they are based on. . . and as we all know they are the result of a rushed game for the cube.
Also I never said someone had a have a completely different and unique move-set to be called a character so IDK how this is "my logic".
To everyone with something to say about my comments, Im willing to reply Fri. My home net connection is moving waaay too slow right now to effectively debate (don't feel like taking 3 mins for my post to load up) and tommorow Maya takes up all my time at school.
Peace
MysticKenji
Smash Master
Shadowball =/= Aura Sphere
If anything, you should be comparing Aura Sphere to Luigi's Fireball since that's the closest thing I see it behaving like.
Also, Yoshi is his own franchise
Shiek and Zelda are separate characters because you can use them independant of each other.
That is not the case with PT's pokemon.
Your Hero
Smash Champion
where do I say that the movesets count as characters? I said that one of the reps has 3 different movesets. Read it carefully next time.
Edit: nevermind I see how can you get confused with it. But I never intended it to be that the movesets = character.
I'm not comparing the pokemon moves in general. I'm comparing how the moves will look in brawl. You can give the attacks two seperate names but they will still be similar no matter what.
I never said Yoshi doesn;t own his franchise, I only said Yoshi co-stars it with baby mario and I change my mind about him not representing his game in brawl, since he does use his b-up egg-throw and his second jump as a flutter jump. It's just that yoshi is a bit of a mix of everything (since he now his Final smash from the Mario adventure series).
I never even said anything comparing to PT and Sheik+Zelda..
MysticKenji
Smash Master
That part wasn't directed at you.
Princess Diana
Amazon
Don't call me a ******. The person was trying to muster up some ORIGINAL moves for lucario which is why i made all those comparisons.
Saph66
Smash Journeyman
I'm sorry lol. However, u gotta admit ur comparisons weren't that good and just made up.