Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

Numa Dude · Jul 21, 2007

Thank god this thread hasn't turned into pointless speculation about clouds. You can always count on this thread to be the only one immune to idiocy.

Viroxor · Jul 21, 2007

No thread is completely immune to idiocy.

Numa Dude · Jul 21, 2007

I dissagree.

Elysium · Jul 21, 2007

Devastlian said:
You say, "This could also explain why we've heard so little on it." As opposed to what? The single player mode? Other multiplayer modes? Any trophy-esque gimmicks in the game? We're not getting the info as it's being developed which should be obvious from the fact that we haven't gotten info about everything in the trailers. Did they finish Donkey Kong right before E3 and say "Yay, we have a new returning character we can reveal!" or did they have him done awhile ago and say "Hmm...let's keep him under wraps for now...How about we slip his revealing into, say, two months and one week into the future's update schedule?" Now imagine something like this: "Hmm...we've finished and perfected online should we talk about within two months of the start of our information stream at the first of a few events between now and when we want to release?" "Nah, we gotta stretch this crap over seven months. It's pretty big so we'll save it for later maybe spread out our big morsels of info over that time."

Gawd...I need to stop staying up so late.

Hmmm, I have to say that makes sense. They wouldn't want to release all the great updates right off the bat when, like you said they have to stretch everything out for seven months. I just wish they would give us a hint or something to calm the Online paranoia thats going around.

Edit: Oh that keeping up with the online thread thing wasn't aimed at you Devastlian, it was aimed at everyone so, if someone hadn't they might have been like "ok i'll go check it out" sort of thing.

Viroxor · Jul 21, 2007

Idiocy is always a threat. That is why we must be vigilant and ready to crush idiocy with the cold hard facts. Actually, this is mostly based on opinions, but regardless, cold hard facts. Anybody who disagrees will disagree, because I myself disagree with parts of the list, but I'm trying not to sound like a disagreeable person. Well, this is getting off-track, so I'll summarize it with a quote from one of my favorite films.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Phaazoid · Jul 21, 2007

hey, who else saw the clouds! i can't believe all the characters they happen to confirm!

(joking)

Wiseguy · Jul 21, 2007

O D I N said:
My first wall of pain! ^_^

*sniff* I'm so proud... :cry:

O D I N said:
My thoughts exactly. I'm pretty sure Sakurai wouldn't make this chump into a major villian. He's probably a puppet of some sort, most likely the "wire frames" of melee, but I can see the wireframes coming back. I liked Elana's (GameAngel64, my friend) theory, which is Mii's could replace wireframes, and then you have to fend off your Mii's. Take that King Leonidas!!

As soon as I noticed that there are apparently two more of the Goo-guys in the background, it occured to me that these are most likely the new generic enemies (ie: the wireframes in Melee). If I'm right, that bodes well for the Miis as a playable character, since the role of wire frame has already been filled.

O D I N said:
Well, my thoughts on today's updates were said through out, but I'll reiterate it again.

I think this could either be the intro movie (but it's listed under game modes, so unlikely), or the intro movie for a game mode. I'm rather excited on the fact that there will be a story mode, and hopefully story modes personalized for each character. I still want my online play. Everyone keeps saying it will be online, so I'm not that worried (by everyone, I mean IGN, Gamespot, etc). I think this new character is nothing more than a mob. Much like a Goomba, or Heartless.

Now granted, a story mode in a fighting game has never been... well... good. But, I think this could be an oppurtunity to change that. At least I can't think of any good story modes in fighting games.

Scratch that. Soul Calibur was alright.

Well... that is the end to my first wall of pain. ^_^

I'm thinking after this last update that we're going to see a full fledged single player mode: with levels, bosses, ect. I have mixed feelings about that, but as long as the multiplayer doesn't suffer (*cough* online *cough*) I have no problem with Sakurai excerising his creative juices.

Oddly enough, alot of people got a Kingdom Hesrts vibe from the update, but I hope the end result is more remenisent to Soul Calibur.

DonkeySmasher said:
alright here's my theory and you people have free in analyzing or shooting it down

master hand loves to create and he created trophies of his favorite characters
then he gave them life according to their character and gave them a lust of fighting

therefore turning into a trophy is like death (kinda like toy story not being used)

mario and kirby is sent to the ring and now they are "reborn" (they have full knowledge of everything)

they have an epic fight but in the end mario wins

kirby is turned into a trophy and now mario's character and fighting joy is in a conflict

eventually his hero character triumphs and he gives kirby a life

kirby, reborn so quickly is confused and lookes at mario

mario tells kirby that a fight at anytime will be good but they will never take it to trophy turning extremes

kirby agrees and shakes mario hand to sign this agreement

then mario looks at the sky seing ominous clouds and the heliberd

he first thinks that meta is his next challenger

but suddenly he sees dark smoke on the stadium floor and sees some minions being created

because of mario's great selfless act the world's rules have been broken

now everything master hand created to keep it in balance is disarray

this created a new great evil (or crazy hand he loves to destroy) seeking to finish this world

he has powers similiar to master hand and created minions and corrupted the dormant trophies

however since mario and kirby was "alive" when mario broke the rule they are unaffected by the corruption

i'm guessing that in story mode you have to first free the other corrupted trophies and eventually counter this great evil

you can only choose kirby and mario at first and you can shoose them both in coop
most battles are optional but some battles (mario fighting his corrupt brother) is mandatory

after you beat it once you can use any starting character(s)

That's a pretty good theory, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't Mario's kindness that "broke the rules". As I recall, the exact wording was "....but when someone - or something- breaks those rules...." which seems like an odd way of phrasing Mario and Kirby shaking hands. It's probably in referance to the game' villian (perhaps the Master Hand). Otherwise, I really like your theory.

HeroOfTime64 said:
I believe that this evil entity is not a new evil and is controlled by the hands of... Well, Master Hand.

One: This explains a lot. We got the fact that Master Hand had brought the characters to life in order for them to fight, but why would Master Hand fight them at the end of Classic Mode? This explains it.

The following is a guess of the story of Super Smash Bros., not SSBB.

Master Hand had brought the trophies to fight, and after a while, they started to think: Why are we fighting? So, they had a plan to offer Master Hand a challenge for a tounament facing battle after battle.
Master Hand obviously accepted and once there were no more enemies in the tournament, the winner would not claim a prize, but take down MH himself!
Once MH was brought down, the defeated characters would live once more, and continue life.

BUT... (Now we're into Melee) MH came back from Final Destination bringing along help from Crazy Hand to stop these renagade fighters once and for all!

Of course, Master Hand got more characters to fight, hoping to make it impossible for them to complete the same challenge (Classic Mode) this time. He even made two other challenges (Adventure Mode, All-Star Mode) in a desprete attempt to win, but he lost, and was sent back through the portal at Final Destination.

NOW.. (Getting into Brawl) MH comes back and once again forces the characters to fight, but in a random act of kindness by Mario, MH sends out "Modeas" to defeat them.

And that's it. That's my opinion.

Makes sense to me. Man, who wouold have thought that Super Smash Bros had such a complex plot?

the_Capt_Falcon_Master said:
that new guy sorta reminds me of the animation from chibi-robo. Mabye he has something to do with that....just an idea

How is that game by the way? I've been toying with the idea of renting it.

OysterMeister said:
Truly, this is the stuff of nightmares, whispered only in the darkest corners of my heart and all that. Actually, I think this guy is more of a minion. I wouldn't expect Sakurai to reveal some big final boss early on, and from the quality of these pictures I'ma gonna say they're from a cinematic. Besides, there's two more blobs of evil forming to the left and right of that guy (modea? goo-man?) that suggest he's just one of many. I just hope the story mode has multiplayer. If Sakurai does that he can turn Brawl story mode into Kingdom Hearts 3 for all I care.

Yeah, Goo-man (that's his name, dang it!) does seem a bit on the small side to be the nemesis of the greatest heroes and villians in videogame hitory.

OysterMeister said:
Ah good. Just when I was beginning to fear Sheik might be cut. But all she really did was go up a few cup sizes....
I'm kidding of course, but make no mistake about this: If Zamus is to be a replacement of Sheik, then she must be nearly identical. You can't have her be a replacement just because she's another fast, agile character anymore than DK can replace Bowser because they're both heavy or Marth could replace Link because they both use a sword. Heck, Marth couldn't replace Roy, and they have the same freakin' moveset...
Even subtle stat differences can drastically change a character.
If Sheik is cut then she's cut, but why is everyone (not just you, Wiseguy) so quick to trade a new character in just to get her back?

Why would a Sheik replacement have to be identical? A broken character like Sheik would have to be heavily altered anyway, so why not just include a new transformation with a similar fighting style?

If it were up to me, I'd have scrapped the whole transformation concept. But I really think that Zamus is intended to fill the void of Sheik.

OysterMeister said:
Personally, I'd have made down-B into a Din's fire more similar to how it was in Oot. You know, big fiery explosion. Then I'd have made her over-B the new move, and made that into Light arrows. But with what's been revealed so far, that's no longer possible... Oh Bother.

Sounds like a good idea. I've been racking my brain for some other move that replace Zelda's down B, but nothing comes to mind. Could she don her black cloak and have enhanced magic powers? That doesn't sound like something Sakurai would do...

OysterMeister said:
I think the only way to make a transformation character work is to make both forms desirable to play as. It was just mean to pair a low-tier and a top-tier in Melee. However, failing actual balance, I'd say that forcing the player into one form or another would be the best way to ensure that all sides are played, yeah.

Agreed. Perfect balance is tricky, and even then I suspect players would just choose their favorite and ignore the other. I hope Samus' final Smash is only one way the transformation occurs. What if every attack attack against Samus had a 1/100 chance of destroying her amour. The chances of this would rise as her damage increases.

OysterMeister said:
Well, this E3 wasn't really aimed at us. I mean, the biggest part of Nintendo's show was Wii fit and that board of theirs. As for the holy trinity we've got coming our way... they gave us a few clips of Mario in a Bee suit, some more footage of Corruption that didn't really reveal anything new, and Brawl was a no-show. I can think of plenty of better times to reveal something about Brawl than during an event it was barely a part of. Like now for instance *crosses fingers*

Yeah, I hope your right. But if September rolls around with no addition third parties announces, I think I'll be justified in cutting all the 3rd parties from my prediction list.

OysterMeister said:
Aw, come on. Monsters that can control the elements and fight each other at your command are awesome. The trick is not to be fooled by the labyrinth of media that surrounds it. I don't hold those cdi games, the animated cartoon series (excuuuse me, princess!), or those stupid wii sword and shield accessories against the Zelda series anymore than I hold the console knock-offs, anime series, or PEZ dispensers against the Pokemon franchise.

I thought we had all agreed that the CD-i games never happened? Objective reality, people, ojective reality. If we all BELEIVE that those games exist, they don't exist.

Anyway, I hear what your saying. I'll try and keep my Pokephobia to myself.

OysterMeister said:
Of all the lords, Marth is THE most important to the FE series. He was first, and is the basic blueprint upon which all other subsequent FE lords have been based. A few lord like Hector, Ephraim and Ike have broken the mold, but for now lords like them are still far in the minority. Besides, most FE fans are in Japan, where they've just as much access to his game as we have to Super Mario 2. More, in fact, considering that Marth's game was remade for the SNES.
The Black Knight... well, I haven't played enough of the console games to know, but if you say he's a recurring villain, that's good enough for me. I love heavy characters, so I'm all for it.

How does being first automatically make him the most important in the series? Marth is not the Link of Fire Emblem because he hasn't appeared in a FE game in over a decade. His appearance in Melee was well deserved, but the FE series has since evolved and moved on.

Today, more FE games are sold outside Japan than within - so the notion that there are currently more fans of the series in Japan in simply false. However, I will grant you that Marth is just as worthy of appearin in Brawl as Wart from Super Mario 2.

You should definitely play FE: Path of Radiance. It's easily the besy RPG on the Cube, and great preparation for the November release of the sequel: Goddess of Dawn.

OysterMeister said:
It's possible that new characters will come from new series, instead of already established ones. Perhaps we aren't seeing Deoxys and Goroh because they're too busy making Olimar (Pikmin!) and Balloon Fighter (I character I hear almost made it into melee).

I think that is definitewly part of it. Smash needs a balance of all new series reps and supporting characters from established series, so I couldn't see Goroh or Deoxys getting in over someone like Olimar.

Devastlian said:
I went back and compared them and that move is completely original. Sheik does this weird sweeping splits move and then spins on her shoulders and ZSS does a handstand and spins around and then does an upward scissor kick. The rest of her moves are generic copies (like her down tilt and neutral air) or original (like her gun and whip) just like most of the characters. I'm just saying that the only way ZSS replaces Sheik is the whole athletic chick in a skin tight suit thing. I don't think she, nor any character I can think of, could pull off Sheik's magically enhanced, flexible, acrobatic moves..

Obviously there are similarities and differeances between the two, so we'll have to see more of Zamus in action before any definitive conclusions could be drawn.

Devastlian said:
But anyway...Today's update was rather weird and awesome. It seems to be just establishing a premise for the game. So on Monday we could have a part two or Meta Knight; if I remember correctly the only shot we've seen before now (on the new site) of the Halberd was a little snippet of the tip of one of its wings so...maybe they were waiting for this update to give him a proper profile. Also, I wanna see some sort of MOTHER content next week. :/ :\.

I expect we'll probably see Yoshi or Metaknight next week. Then again, Sakurai likes to mess with our heads - so perhaps we'll see an all new character.

Devastlian said:
And...I was gonna put this in your other thread but you mentioned it here so...you mentioned that you were worried that a robust single player mode would mean less time for the team to work on an online mode. Well, you probably know all of this but I'm going to use my forces of logic to read into this. Now, this game is being worked on by a good number of people...at least 50 plus. Now, the way development works is those fifty-plus people don't all work on one thing and then move to the next; they divide into teams and, using the power of specialization, each team works on one or one kind of element to the game (some might work on one and then move on to another)....pretty much what I'm saying is there's probably no overlapping between the single player and online. From what I've seen from looking at the credits for online games, there's someone or a team that does the online work...So, if they planned on implementing an online mode, this person or team probably would've been tinkering with it from the start. Or something...I don't really know. I just think people associate Mr. Sakurai's name with this game too much to the point where they start thinking he's the only one doing all of the working and making everything in this game.

I understand that Sakurai doesn't personally do everything, but it is his project so he can decide where his team devotes their resourses too. I'm sure it's possible that we're getting both a robust single player and a plenty of online options, but nothing is for certain at this point.

Elysium said:
Hmmm, I think it was in Wise's Online thread, but someone said that the main problem would be the net coding. Since Smash is such a technical game, they might be having the porblem that most games face when working on designing the net play. Though I don't think that it's simply the team can't get the code. I think it's the lack of time they have to figure it out. This could also explain why we've heard so little on it. Don't get me wrong I have faith in Sakurai not to let us down, but the hands of time can blur things, and he might make the wrong decision of releasing Brawl minus Online because of time, instead of delaying.
(Like I said, if you've been reading this thread and you haven't checked out the Online thread.... shame on you.)

You've pretty much summed up my concerns. With enough time, I have no doubt that at least a primitive online mode could be included. But with December 3 quickly approaching, I'm worried in there will be time even for that.

Devastlian said:
Ya, I've been following that thread since the beginning.

Are my posts really that easy to miss?

Mr. Sakurai posted on the old site that if they were going to put online in the game there were difficulties they'd have to overcome...and that was over a year ago. And to know that there are difficulties they'd have had to known this before that point in time. That's fourteen-plus months that they've had to work on online. We don't know if the release date was Nintendo setting a deadline for the holiday season on Mr. Sakurai and Co. or if Mr. Sakurai said it'd definately be gold in autumn and to set the release for the first week of December.

They could show something at the specific...something that they say they're planning. They could show something at one of the other big events this year. Or they could wait until the boxart is revealed and slip on a Wifi logo like they've done with a couple games in the past. Or they could just slap it on as a site update like everything else. They're really under no obligation as to how, when, and what to reveal.

You say, "This could also explain why we've heard so little on it." As opposed to what? The single player mode? Other multiplayer modes? Any trophy-esque gimmicks in the game? We're not getting the info as it's being developed which should be obvious from the fact that we haven't gotten info about everything in the trailers. Did they finish Donkey Kong right before E3 and say "Yay, we have a new returning character we can reveal!" or did they have him done awhile ago and say "Hmm...let's keep him under wraps for now...How about we slip his revealing into, say, two months and one week into the future's update schedule?" Now imagine something like this: "Hmm...we've finished and perfected online should we talk about within two months of the start of our information stream at the first of a few events between now and when we want to release?" "Nah, we gotta stretch this crap over seven months. It's pretty big so we'll save it for later maybe spread out our big morsels of info over that time."

Gawd...I need to stop staying up so late.

Well, you have to admit it's a bit odd that on Nintendo's official E3 website Brawl is not listed as Wi-fi compadible - even though Mario Kart, Mario STrikers and Phantom Hourglass are. Brawl was announced as an online title since the very beggining - so why are they being so quiet about it now?

http://e3.nintendo.com/wii.html

Bakemonky said:
Honest to Jesus, THE best Brawl list I've ever read. Kudos.

Thank you for the compliment.

Numa Dude said:
Thank god this thread hasn't turned into pointless speculation about clouds. You can always count on this thread to be the only one immune to idiocy.

I swear, I can see the words: "Sheik sucks. I regret ever putting that abomination in Melee! Sincerely, Sakurai" in those clouds...

Elysium said:
Hmmm, I have to say that makes sense. They wouldn't want to release all the great updates right off the bat when, like you said they have to stretch everything out for seven months. I just wish they would give us a hint or something to calm the Online paranoia thats going around.

Believe me, noone is more tired of the propaganda then me: the chief propaganda spreader. Please Nintendo, just put this debate to rest and tell us one way or another.

Vali · Jul 21, 2007

That may have been Odin's first wall of pain, but ^ that certainly won't be Wiseguy's last.

Haven't checked the first post in a while actually Wiseguy, much love for the link to my moveset

. It's certainly shaping up to be an incredibly comprehensive list, even with stages! Kudos to you.

Eight Sage · Jul 21, 2007

samusrules93 said:
hey, who else saw the clouds! i can't believe all the characters they happen to confirm!

(joking)

Ha ha we can spend a lot of time looking at them!

NukeA6 · Jul 21, 2007

It's been a long time since I rated yer list.

1. I agree that Luigi may have an entirely new moveset. Like the Luigi's beginning in Nintendo History, Luigi started as a clone of Mario, later he started getting his own personality and became less like Mario. Today, Luigi is capable of getting his own series because he is a completely different character from his brother.

2. I'm sure Mewtwo would return regardless of Deoxys. He always was more popular than him anyway. Though, I'm sure Gardevoir has good chances herself.

3. Black Knight as an Ike clone? It doesn't have to be that way.

4. I agree about Resetti taking the Animal Crossing spot. An angry mole has got to be better than a racoon clerk. Very interesting too. Though, there Tom Nook's leaf...

5. Ray would make a great character regardless of what model he is. They could end up as ATs too

6. Happy Mask Salesman? ummm....no

7. I like Oni Link but his chances of being playable are nil.

OysterMeister · Jul 21, 2007

Wiseguy said:
Yeah, Goo-man (that's his name, dang it!) does seem a bit on the small side to be the nemesis of the greatest heroes and villians in videogame hitory.

What I'm really hoping for is that the Goos-ter is just one of many types of goo-niks. Goo-man might be just the generic type, and there would be other goo-lings that could look and fight as heavy characters, floaty characters, ranged character, fast characters... maybe even goo-bosses (goo-lords? goo-gamooga?).
I mean, as long as we've got these enemies to crush, we might as well have some variety to them, right?

Wiseguy said:
Agreed. Perfect balance is tricky, and even then I suspect players would just choose their favorite and ignore the other. I hope Samus' final Smash is only one way the transformation occurs. What if every attack attack against Samus had a 1/100 chance of destroying her amour. The chances of this would rise as her damage increases.

Sounds workable.

Wiseguy said:
Yeah, I hope your right. But if September rolls around with no addition third parties announces, I think I'll be justified in cutting all the 3rd parties from my prediction list.

I just remembered... remember how Sakurai said that all 3rd party characters (even snake) would have to be unlocked? If that's true, then they're technically hidden characters, aren't they? It might seem odd, but if they really are hidden like that, as Sakurai says, then perhaps no 3rd party characters will be revealed at all, just left hidden in the game. Man, that would suck...

Wiseguy said:
How does being first automatically make him the most important in the series? Marth is not the Link of Fire Emblem because he hasn't appeared in a FE game in over a decade. His appearance in Melee was well deserved, but the FE series has since evolved and moved on.

Today, more FE games are sold outside Japan than within - so the notion that there are currently more fans of the series in Japan in simply false. However, I will grant you that Marth is just as worthy of appearin in Brawl as Wart from Super Mario 2.

You should definitely play FE: Path of Radiance. It's easily the besy RPG on the Cube, and great preparation for the November release of the sequel: Goddess of Dawn.

Let me put it this way: Marth actually USED the fire emblem, the one the series gets its name from. His sword is the Fire Emblem symbol. And most of the early lords like Sigurd and Leaf are basicaly Marth with a different name. He may not appear, but his influence lives on.

Phaazoid · Jul 21, 2007

@oystermeyster
as i recall, ellywood, roy's father, used the fire emblem. just fyi.

Devastlian · Jul 21, 2007

Wiseguy said:
Well, you have to admit it's a bit odd that on Nintendo's official E3 website Brawl is not listed as Wi-fi compadible - even though Mario Kart, Mario STrikers and Phantom Hourglass are. Brawl was announced as an online title since the very beggining - so why are they being so quiet about it now?

http://e3.nintendo.com/wii.html

I don't find it that odd. MSC and PH are already out in other countries so we know all about them and E32007 was where they announced MKWii and announced it had online play. They made a point to say they aren't focusing on SSBB at E3 this year before it happened so it's perfectly justified that there is so little info from it which doesn't necessarily include what you want to hear. They're being quiet about it now (as they have been for the past year or so) because they simply don't want to talk about it for whatever reason. And if they didn't want to talk about it there they'll either talk about it on the Dojo or at another event along with Endless Ocean and BWii, both of which are online and coming out before SSBB, along with any other game didn't get the spotlight at E3 such as Fire Emblem or Prof. Layton (...<_< What?).

OysterMeister · Jul 21, 2007

samusrules93 said:
@oystermeyster
as i recall, ellywood, roy's father, used the fire emblem. just fyi.

He used A fire emblem, not THE fire emblem. There's been quite a few fire emblems over the games, but the first one was a shield, and Marth could use it.

DonkeySmasher · Jul 21, 2007

ignore post

the_Capt_Falcon_Master · Jul 22, 2007

@ wiseguy:
its a great game and lots of fun i recomend it. Plus the new baddie reminded me a ton of the characaters from the game like i said. Mabye chibi-robo will be in there? Sorta surprised no one has suggested that. I think (after playing the game) it wolud be fun to see chibi-robo take on the likes on mario link and kirby. Ill make up a moveset tomarrow once i get some rest.

Dark Sonic · Jul 22, 2007

samusrules93 said:
@oystermeyster
as i recall, ellywood, roy's father, used the fire emblem. just fyi.

Well, he didn't exactly use it for anything. It was just a simbol used in the prince's comming of age ceremony that Eliwood had to retrieve for him. Marth's Fire Emblem was actually used in battle. I still say he's more worthy of a spot than The Black Knight.

the_Capt_Falcon_Master · Jul 22, 2007

ok heres what i could think of for chibi-robos moves. Unfortunatly this will only make complete sense to those who have played the game.

Size: about the same as a single ice climber
weight: equal to mario
power: fairly weak, equal id say to young link
jump: with robotic limbs probably pretty good so i would say the same as capt falcon

Ground Moves:
a-combo: right jab, left jab, then a quick headbutt
a>: a straight kick to the side, not to strong
smash>: a double handed thrust while holding onto his plug for added damage (if the end of the plug connects there will be some electrical effect along with the damage of the attack)
a v: a quick split hitting both sides of the robo
smash v: lays on back and quickly spins with limbs and plug extended (the plug has a longer reach then the arms and legs)
a^: identical to mario's, a weak uppercut
smash^: again, the same as mario's, a headbutt sending your foe skyward. But robo holds the plug on top of his head while doing this and thus the is extra electrical damage
running a: does a baseball slide with his plug held in between his feet

Airial attacks:
n-air: spins just like kirby, except with the addition of the plug
f-air: a karate stlye kick
b-air: does a double back kick ending up in the superman position
d-air: does a link style sword stab, except with his plug
u-air: same as d-air except pointing up

B-moves:
B "Robo Canon": In the game the robo gets an arm cannon almost identical to samus's, firing the same kind of things (balls of energy) so for this move the robo will have the arm cannon and fire the energy balls, but not be able to charge them. He will also fire them at the same rate as falcos laser gun.
B> "Plug-In": He will throw his plug in the direction he is faceing (which will cause some damage) then he will be pulled along and cause even more damage. this can be charged like luigis and pickchus/pichus headbutts.
^B"Propeller": sprouts the propeller from his head and shoots upward. Can then float slowly to the ground. (identical to peach's parasol move)
V B"Garbage": Pulls garbage out of his head and throws it at foes. The garbage could be scraps of paper, candy wrappers, cookie crumbs, or other boxes, even at times random items (Again very similar to peach's vegi throw move)

Final Smash: Plugs his cord into a generator and supercharges his battery, resulting in a massive explosion of energy discharge

so there it is, its the best i could think of at the moment.

oh and I almost forgot for his shield the cup he uses as a shield in the game will appear

Dark Sonic · Jul 22, 2007

OysterMeister said:
Let me put it this way: Marth actually USED the fire emblem, the one the series gets its name from. His sword is the Fire Emblem symbol. And most of the early lords like Sigurd and Leaf are basicaly Marth with a different name. He may not appear in another FE game, but his influence lives on.

Fixed and QFT.

Viroxor · Jul 22, 2007

Marth=outta there, because he was only in, like, two games, and there are far more recent characters to be used, as cool as he was.

Now, characters that are cool/popular, have been in a series since the beginning, and were major characters in the most recent installments of their series deserve to be in Brawl. Do you know who I'm looking at? I'm looking at Falco. Been in series longer than Krystal, was playable in the most recent installment, and has a large fanbase. That's practically confirmation, to a sensible mind.

Ferro De Lupe · Jul 22, 2007

I think it would be kinda cute to see Chibi-Robo bashing heads with Kirby and Mario...

User33 · Jul 22, 2007

Viroxor said:
Marth=outta there, because he was only in, like, two games, and there are far more recent characters to be used, as cool as he was..

There hasn't been one character that has been in more then two games, so your point is invalid.

Wiseguy · Jul 22, 2007

Vali said:
That may have been Odin's first wall of pain, but ^ that certainly won't be Wiseguy's last.

Haven't checked the first post in a while actually Wiseguy, much love for the link to my moveset . It's certainly shaping up to be an incredibly comprehensive list, even with stages! Kudos to you.

Thank ye muchly, Vali.

NukeA6 said:
It's been a long time since I rated yer list.

1. I agree that Luigi may have an entirely new moveset. Like the Luigi's beginning in Nintendo History, Luigi started as a clone of Mario, later he started getting his own personality and became less like Mario. Today, Luigi is capable of getting his own series because he is a completely different character from his brother.

2. I'm sure Mewtwo would return regardless of Deoxys. He always was more popular than him anyway. Though, I'm sure Gardevoir has good chances herself.

3. Black Knight as an Ike clone? It doesn't have to be that way.

4. I agree about Resetti taking the Animal Crossing spot. An angry mole has got to be better than a racoon clerk. Very interesting too. Though, there Tom Nook's leaf...

5. Ray would make a great character regardless of what model he is. They could end up as ATs too

6. Happy Mask Salesman? ummm....no

7. I like Oni Link but his chances of being playable are nil.

1) Yeah, as much as I liked the Mario clone/unique character hybrid we saw in Melee, I think Luigi is more than worthy of a unique moveset this time around.

2) Stupid Pokemans.... messing up my perfect list with their presence..... - Oops! I mean, Pokemans are the awesomest! I don't hate them at all, really.

3) I doesn't HAVE to be that way, certanly, but I thought it would be a good way of saving some development time so more characters could be included.

4) Indeed. I have this funny feeling that Sakurai's intended AC rep is a character none of us will see coming...

5) They sure could.

6-7)

Wiseguy said:
Honorable Mentions:

(Characters that I would love to see appear in Brawl, but are pretty much impossible.)

OysterMeister said:
What I'm really hoping for is that the Goos-ter is just one of many types of goo-niks. Goo-man might be just the generic type, and there would be other goo-lings that could look and fight as heavy characters, floaty characters, ranged character, fast characters... maybe even goo-bosses (goo-lords? goo-gamooga?).
I mean, as long as we've got these enemies to crush, we might as well have some variety to them, right?

Makes sense to me. I wonder, are we still going to see classic Nintendo enemies (ie: Goombas, Octorocks, etc.) in the story mode, or will we see only unique gooey foes in the single player mode?

I just remembered... remember how Sakurai said that all 3rd party characters (even snake) would have to be unlocked? If that's true, then they're technically hidden characters, aren't they? It might seem odd, but if they really are hidden like that, as Sakurai says, then perhaps no 3rd party characters will be revealed at all, just left hidden in the game. Man, that would suck...

Hmm... that doesn't make sense to me. It seems to me that one of the reasons they revealed Snake so soon was to generate publicity and get non-Nintendo fans (in this case, Metal Gear fans) onboard. If Sonic is in the game, why wouldn't they want to scream it from the hooftops so EVERYONE knew?

Let me put it this way: Marth actually USED the fire emblem, the one the series gets its name from. His sword is the Fire Emblem symbol. And most of the early lords like Sigurd and Leaf are basicaly Marth with a different name. He may not appear, but his influence lives on.

Every FE game I've played has it's own "Fire Emblem" in the story. The one in Path of Radiance belongs to Ike's sister and plays a pretty important part in the story.

As for the FE symbol in Melee, they could simply design a new one.

Finally, influence is all well and good - but actually appearing in the games is more important. And there are plenty of characters in the series who have appeared in more recent games that are just as worthy of appearing in Brawl.

Devastlian said:
I don't find it that odd. MSC and PH are already out in other countries so we know all about them and E32007 was where they announced MKWii and announced it had online play. They made a point to say they aren't focusing on SSBB at E3 this year before it happened so it's perfectly justified that there is so little info from it which doesn't necessarily include what you want to hear. They're being quiet about it now (as they have been for the past year or so) because they simply don't want to talk about it for whatever reason. And if they didn't want to talk about it there they'll either talk about it on the Dojo or at another event along with Endless Ocean and BWii, both of which are online and coming out before SSBB, along with any other game didn't get the spotlight at E3 such as Fire Emblem or Prof. Layton (...<_< What?).

I hope your right...

Riddle me this: hypotheticlly speaking if Nintendo were having second thouhts about the inclusion of online, what would they have done differently than they did at E3?

OysterMeister said:
He used A fire emblem, not THE fire emblem. There's been quite a few fire emblems over the games, but the first one was a shield, and Marth could use it.

There is no THE Fire Emblem. Marth's, Ephriam's and Ike's emblems are all separate and unique - since they take place in completely different worlds, much like the Final Fantasy series. Only instead of a pilot named Cid, Fire Emblem has.... a Fire Emblem.

DonkeySmasher said:
ignore post

TOO LATE!!!

*Concentrates withe all his might on DS's post*

the_Capt_Falcon_Master said:
@ wiseguy:
its a great game and lots of fun i recomend it. Plus the new baddie reminded me a ton of the characaters from the game like i said. Mabye chibi-robo will be in there? Sorta surprised no one has suggested that. I think (after playing the game) it wolud be fun to see chibi-robo take on the likes on mario link and kirby. Ill make up a moveset tomarrow once i get some rest.

Hmmm... it's possible. There is a new Chibi game planed for release this fall on DS, and an appearance in Brawl would surely increase sales of the game.

Thanks for the recomendation. Mental note: add yet another game to my pile of shame...

the_Capt_Falcon_Master said:
ok heres what i could think of for chibi-robos moves. Unfortunatly this will only make complete sense to those who have played the game.

Size: about the same as a single ice climber
weight: equal to mario
power: fairly weak, equal id say to young link
jump: with robotic limbs probably pretty good so i would say the same as capt falcon

Ground Moves:
a-combo: right jab, left jab, then a quick headbutt
a>: a straight kick to the side, not to strong
smash>: a double handed thrust while holding onto his plug for added damage (if the end of the plug connects there will be some electrical effect along with the damage of the attack)
a v: a quick split hitting both sides of the robo
smash v: lays on back and quickly spins with limbs and plug extended (the plug has a longer reach then the arms and legs)
a^: identical to mario's, a weak uppercut
smash^: again, the same as mario's, a headbutt sending your foe skyward. But robo holds the plug on top of his head while doing this and thus the is extra electrical damage
running a: does a baseball slide with his plug held in between his feet

Airial attacks:
n-air: spins just like kirby, except with the addition of the plug
f-air: a karate stlye kick
b-air: does a double back kick ending up in the superman position
d-air: does a link style sword stab, except with his plug
u-air: same as d-air except pointing up

B-moves:
B "Robo Canon": In the game the robo gets an arm cannon almost identical to samus's, firing the same kind of things (balls of energy) so for this move the robo will have the arm cannon and fire the energy balls, but not be able to charge them. He will also fire them at the same rate as falcos laser gun.
B> "Plug-In": He will throw his plug in the direction he is faceing (which will cause some damage) then he will be pulled along and cause even more damage. this can be charged like luigis and pickchus/pichus headbutts.
^B"Propeller": sprouts the propeller from his head and shoots upward. Can then float slowly to the ground. (identical to peach's parasol move)
V B"Garbage": Pulls garbage out of his head and throws it at foes. The garbage could be scraps of paper, candy wrappers, cookie crumbs, or other boxes, even at times random items (Again very similar to peach's vegi throw move)

Final Smash: Plugs his cord into a generator and supercharges his battery, resulting in a massive explosion of energy discharge

so there it is, its the best i could think of at the moment.

oh and I almost forgot for his shield the cup he uses as a shield in the game will appear

Cool ideas. Chibi seems like he would fit right it. I should really add him to my runnerup list at some point...

Viroxor said:
Marth=outta there, because he was only in, like, two games, and there are far more recent characters to be used, as cool as he was.

Now, characters that are cool/popular, have been in a series since the beginning, and were major characters in the most recent installments of their series deserve to be in Brawl. Do you know who I'm looking at? I'm looking at Falco. Been in series longer than Krystal, was playable in the most recent installment, and has a large fanbase. That's practically confirmation, to a sensible mind.

I'm constantly torn between Falco and Wolf, since I just can't see both appearing. Both have a good shot of appearing, but my inclination was that the newer character stood the best shot. We'll just have to see....

Viroxor · Jul 22, 2007

Wolf is only newer by one game, which is Star Fox 64, and the original is hardly ever heard of.

And to User33: Yeah, it's true that few appear in more than one game, and never as the main character in both appearances. Still, a more recent character has a better chance. I don't really know jack about the FE series, I'm just using what I normally use to decide characters, except for characters I feel very strongly about. You can probably guess the best example.

PrinnyFlute · Jul 22, 2007

Never played the game, but Chibi-Robo certainly wouldn't hurt my feelings.

As an aside, and an invitation to drop bombs on my head, does anybody else who's indifferent or actually likes Tingle kind of hope he gets into the game just from a sadistic urge to revel in the pain of thousands of Smash players?

Viroxor · Jul 22, 2007

I have no opinion about Tingle, and I don't find him necessary from your proposal, because I can already do that with another character that I know I like.

Gypsy Lee · Jul 22, 2007

PrinnyFlute said:
As an aside, and an invitation to drop bombs on my head, does anybody else who's indifferent or actually likes Tingle kind of hope he gets into the game just from a sadistic urge to revel in the pain of thousands of Smash players?

Tingle replaces Sandbag.

Sandbag promoted to PC.

Everyone wins.

Creo · Jul 22, 2007

Actually, I like Tingle much and do hope he get's in the game. I gave Wiseguy a Tingle moveset and he agreed it was well made. I also(on page 123 here)proved to the world Tingle is not gay. His chances are possible and can be in. Oh and, if he is a PC and is Top Tier, I am gonna spam this whole site cause no one believed he would be in.
Also, Happy Mask Salesman FTW as well.

Dark Sonic · Jul 22, 2007

Wiseguy said:
Finally, influence is all well and good - but actually appearing in the games is more important. And there are plenty of characters in the series who have appeared in more recent games that are just as worthy of appearing in Brawl.

But he did actually appear in the games. He appeared in more games than all but one of the FE lords. Technically Ike doesn't command your army for 2 full games because for half of FE10 your army is controlled by other characters. So he still loses to Marth by 1/2 of a game.

Who are these other characters you're talking about. Marth deserves the spot much more than the Black Knight or Micaiah. Why take all the characters from a single game in the series when one of the most important FE lords isn't in it?

The Black Knight is cool and all, but not at the expense of one of the most popular and unique melee characters, who is also very important to the series. Why add a clone at the expense of cutting a unique character?

Micaiah only controls your army for 1/4 of her game. She has to play second seat with Ike and even though she is important storywise, Ike is still a more central character in her game and is sufficient for advertisement. Marth would also take less time to include than her because they wouldn't need to think of a move set for him. They could just take his moveset from Melee and plug the animations and hitboxes into their generic male wire frame and be done with his moves (minus a few aterations in power and speed for nerfing purposes.) Then they just use the same customization that they used to give his character color an shape in melee. That would save a lot of time for other characters.

Marth is a better candidate than everyone not named Ike and as long as there's more than 1 FE spot that's all he really needs to be. I think FE will get 3 character slots so you can still have your Black Knight or Micaiah (I'd personally go with Micaiah if they have the time to give her a unique moveset), but Marth still deserves a spot.

7 or 8 swordsmen is a fine amount considering there will be 40-45 characters. 6 original swordmen and 2 clones.
Ike
Marth
Link
WW Link/whatever other Link gets in (Link Clone)
Gannondorf (if he gets his sword)
Black Knight (Ike Clone)
Metaknight
Pit (If you really consider that tiny thing a sword.)

I see no problem with this line up. In fact I wouldn't mind seeing 1 or 2 additional swordsmen added to this list.

Gypsy Lee · Jul 22, 2007

We don't need anymore generic swordsman. That's why Samurai Goroh is an AT. There's only so many moves a swordsman can offer, so we don't need nine different characters with basically the same moves. A little bit of variety never hurt anyone....

the grim lizard · Jul 22, 2007

Creo said:
Actually, I like Tingle much and do hope he get's in the game. I gave Wiseguy a Tingle moveset and he agreed it was well made. I also(on page 123 here)proved to the world Tingle is not gay. His chances are possible and can be in. Oh and, if he is a PC and is Top Tier, I am gonna spam this whole site cause no one believed he would be in.
Also, Happy Mask Salesman FTW as well.

His own father disowned him because he wanted to be a fairyman.

I hate Tingle; I've hated him ever since he charged me like 200 rupees apiece to translate maps for me. Also, he is a slavedriver (two lookalikes in WW), and Olimar is the only slavedriver we need in Brawl.

Devastlian · Jul 22, 2007

Wiseguy said:
Riddle me this: hypotheticlly speaking if Nintendo were having second thouhts about the inclusion of online, what would they have done differently than they did at E3?

If they've been working on it since before that comment about it on the old site, they would've (should've) said no if they'd decided against it after working on it all that time so as to not create fake hype. Reggie, despite his being kind of a figurehead and not having a lot of influence over the actual games, is still in charge of NoA and its localization teams who're very likely already working on it would probably know these things by now...unless the higher ups wanted him (and the other people asked about it) to keep quiet regardless of anything.

Eight Sage · Jul 22, 2007

Devastlian said:
If they've been working on it since before that comment about it on the old site, they would've (should've) said no if they'd decided against it after working on it all that time so as to not create fake hype. Reggie, despite his being kind of a figurehead and not having a lot of influence over the actual games, is still in charge of NoA and its localization teams who're very likely already working on it would probably know these things by now...unless the higher ups wanted him (and the other people asked about it) to keep quiet regardless of anything.

that's true ^ Good point.

*hopes for online SSBB* We have to wait and see...

Dark Sonic · Jul 22, 2007

Gypsy Lee said:
We don't need anymore generic swordsman. That's why Samurai Goroh is an AT. There's only so many moves a swordsman can offer, so we don't need nine different characters with basically the same moves. A little bit of variety never hurt anyone....

But it isn't 9 swordsmen and none of them are that similar in style (except the clones of course). They won't have bassically the same moves because only 5 of them use just swords. Pit has that Bow thing, and Link and WW Link have their bombs, boomerangs,ect.
Metaknight is obviously not going to be anything like the others and neither will Gannondorf. Black Knight is an Ike clone, but even he would offer a lot of variety (a lot like how Gannondorf is to Captain Falcon). Ike and Marth would be the closest out of the group, but there still much too different to even be considered Luigified clones. Marth will be lighter and more floaty than Ike (thus dieing more quickly) and have less powerfull, but faster attacks. Marth's got that cool tipper sweetspot thing going, but Ike doesn't necessarily need to have sweetspots on his moves (it just doesn't seem like it would fit ragnell with it's shape.) Marth's moves are vertical slashes, while Ike's are more likely to be horizontal. That makes a surprising difference in overall range and would make Ike a much more close combat unit. It's basically like a Ike as a Hero and Marth as a Swordmaster.

freeman123 · Jul 22, 2007

WTF? I can't believe people spammed my character topic to tell me how much inferior my list was to yours. Are we in the fugging twilight zone or what?

Wiseguy
5) Midna & Wolf Link

What are they going to call this character in the game? "Midna & Wolf Link" is a stupid name for a character.

Wiseguy
Status: Probable

No it isn't.

Wiseguy
3) King Dedede

I still think Dedede is going to end up like Samurai Goroh. A character everyone adds to their prediction lists that will ultimately end up an AT.

Wiseguy
Studies have shown that a mechanical eye can make even the most generic of villians look 30% more awesome. Case in point: Star Wolf.

Fox Clone

Status: plausible

On Sakurai’s list: Yes

Comments: Alright already! Since I started this thread, I've gotten tons of flak from Star Fox fans demanding to know where I get off not including Wolf. To me it's always come down to whether he or Falco would make the better Fox clone, and I can never make up my mind which one has the better chance of appearing. In the end, I decided that Wolf is at least as important to the Star Fox series as Falco, and since Falco has already had his 5 seconds of fame, I ultimatly went with Wolfy. I see him being included as a heavy, slower Fox clone. Now I just have to contend with all the Falco fans who are at this very moment burning effigies of me in the streets (which is actually pretty incredible since no one knows what I look like).

If they were going to add Wolf over Falco, they would have done it in Melee.

Wiseguy
The reason that I believe the Black Knight has a chance at appearing in Brawl is because of the ease with which he could be made Ike’s clone.

But you don't even know if Ike's in yet.

Wiseguy
Not only is Captain Olimar the star of Nintendo’s most creative and brilliant game series to date: the Pikmin series

I'll pretend that I didn't read that.

Wiseguy
what could be more awesome than a guy who solves his problems by enslaving alien races and forcing them to do his bidding?

Pretty much everything.

Wiseguy
4) Simon Belmont:
Status: Very Likely

How is Simon Belmont very likely?

Wiseguy
it’s a safe bet that the definitive vampire slayer will make it into Brawl.

No it isn't.

Wiseguy
Choosing a Hudson representative is so easy, a caveman could do it.

Apparently not, because you chose Bonk.

Wiseguy
Status: Not Impossible

No, but it's about as close to impossible as it could be. There's basically no chance of them choosing Bonk over Bomberman. Goomba is more likely than Bonk.

Wiseguy
Bonk was Turbographix-16 mascot in the fiercely competitive 16-bit console wars

In which Turbographix-16 wasn't one of the fierce competitors.

Wiseguy
making him the third pillar in the legendary Mario-Sonic-Bonk rivalry.

No he wasn't. He was the Ralph Nader of the Mario/Sonic rivalry. No one cared who he was, and most people didn't even know he existed.

That argument is about as good as the arguments people use to support Crash Bandicoot.

Wiseguy
Tragically, Bonk may not get put in Brawl

You think?

Wiseguy
and if you are one of the people who want to see Bomerman represent Hudson, you are part of the problem.

Good! I guess I'm part of the problem. I don't really care about Hudson or Bomberman, but if anyone is going to represent Hudson it's common sense that it should be Bomberman.

Wiseguy
Let's hope Hudson and Nintendo agree and give Bonk a proper rival as a Brawl character.

Let's not.

Wiseguy
Keep in my mind this is not necessarily my personal wish list, but my prediction on who will get in

That's too bad. You would have came off better had you said it was your personal wishlist.

Wiseguy
Keep in my mind this is not necessarily my personal wish list, but my prediction on who will get in

I'd like to know why you think that there will be three Links, but only one Mario. It's freaking Mario!

Wiseguy
4) Pichu:
http://colombustore.com/images/dossiers/pichu.jpg
Studies have proven that only insane people expect Pichu to make a comeback. If you are one of these individuals, seek help immediately.

Comments: You figure it out.

Well, we can't all be reasonable and expect characters like Bonk to be in the game.

Wiseguy
8) Falco:

http://www.gamehiker.com/gallery/alb...oxas/falco.jpg
Sorry Falco, but even with a gun like just you just can't beat Wolf's mechanical eye. Zing!

Comments: Out with the old, and in with the new. The fact of the matter is that we most likely only get three Star Fox representatives and Wolf is important enough to the series that he deserves a turn in the spotlight. But hey, Falco really isn't that popular anyway, right?

*Runs away before angry mob can sharper their pitch forks*

Falco was the most popular character in the series back when Star Fox was still good. And the true Star Fox fans would probably cut Fox before Falco if it was up to them. Falco is like Meta-Knight. He's not the main hero, he's not the main villain, but he probably has more fans then both put together.

Gypsy Lee · Jul 22, 2007

Sonic Wave said:
But it isn't 9 swordsmen and none of them are that similar in style (except the clones of course). They won't have bassically the same moves because only 5 of them use just swords. Pit has that Bow thing, and Link and WW Link have their bombs, boomerangs,ect.
Metaknight is obviously not going to be anything like the others and neither will Gannondorf. Black Knight is an Ike clone, but even he would offer a lot of variety (a lot like how Gannondorf is to Captain Falcon). Ike and Marth would be the closest out of the group, but there still much too different to even be considered Luigified clones. Marth will be lighter and more floaty than Ike (thus dieing more quickly) and have less powerfull, but faster attacks. Marth's got that cool tipper sweetspot thing going, but Ike doesn't necessarily need to have sweetspots on his moves (it just doesn't seem like it would fit ragnell with it's shape.) Marth's moves are vertical slashes, while Ike's are more likely to be horizontal. That makes a surprising difference in overall range and would make Ike a much more close combat unit. It's basically like a Ike as a Hero and Marth as a Swordmaster.

I mainly meant standard attacks. I know they could make one slower, and one heavier, but it would still be monotonous and they wouldn't offer any variety or originality to the game. There can be five axeman with different weights, strengths, etc., but how fun is that going to be? Knowing an original character like Chibi Robo or Deoxys (I'm just using them as examples) couldn't make the cut because too much time had already been put into making the current characters, (including nine swordsman) and there wasn't enough time left to add any more PCs? I know all those swordsman are popular characters or are already in the game, but ****! Nine swordsman? That means less of the unique characters. At some point, you have to decide what's more important- Add deserving, popular, yet unoriginal characters from well know franchises, or sacrifice all of that for a unique, unknown character that can offer much more to the game? You may disappoint some fans, but you make for a more enjoyable gaming experience. I think that was the direction Sakurai went with Samurai Goroh, and will do with several of the swordsman you listed. I'm guessing there will only be 5 or 6 swordsman in Brawl. Metaknight, Pit (he is not really a swordsman though), Marth, Ike (what you listed about him is basically everything Roy was, who was a bust to say the least), Link, and maybe Ganondorf.

Dark Sonic · Jul 22, 2007

Gypsy Lee said:
I mainly meant standard attacks. I know they could make one slower, and one heavier, but it would still be monotonous and they wouldn't offer any variety or originality to the game. There can be five axeman with different weights, strengths, etc., but how fun is that going to be? Knowing an original character like Chibi Robo or Deoxys (I'm just using them as examples) couldn't make the cut because too much time had already been put into making the current characters, (including nine swordsman) and there wasn't enough time left to add any more PCs? I know all those swordsman are popular characters or are already in the game, but ****! Nine swordsman? That means less of the unique characters. At some point, you have to decide what's more important- Add deserving, popular, yet unoriginal characters from well know franchises, or sacrifice all of that for a unique, unknown character that can offer much more to the game? You may disappoint some fans, but you make for a more enjoyable gaming experience. I think that was the direction Sakurai went with Samurai Goroh, and will do with several of the swordsman you listed. I'm guessing there will only be 5 or 6 swordsman in Brawl. Metaknight, Pit (he is not really a swordsman though), Marth, Ike (what you listed about him is basically everything Roy was, who was a bust to say the least), Link, and maybe Ganondorf.

My list has 7 if you don't count pit and 6 if Gannon doesn't get his sword. Have you noticed how different Marth's and Links standard attacks are. Roy's attacks were like Marth's because he was a Marth clone. He just kinda sucked because of his misplaced sweetspot (it force someone with a really long sword to fight up close) and the little to no stun that his moves had. Ike surely won't have those problems and will have his own unique move set as well.

Wiseguy · Jul 22, 2007

PrinnyFlute said:
Never played the game, but Chibi-Robo certainly wouldn't hurt my feelings.

As an aside, and an invitation to drop bombs on my head, does anybody else who's indifferent or actually likes Tingle kind of hope he gets into the game just from a sadistic urge to revel in the pain of thousands of Smash players?

I'm actuallt not opposed to Tingle's inclusion, as long as it isn't at the expense of a more worthy Zelda character, like WW Link or Midna.

Just so long as he isn't high tier. That would be a disaster. To see Tingle win tournament after tournament...

Gypsy Lee said:
Tingle replaces Sandbag.

Sandbag promoted to PC.

Everyone wins.

Best. Idea. Ever.

SANDBAG FOR HIGH TIER!

Creo said:
Actually, I like Tingle much and do hope he get's in the game. I gave Wiseguy a Tingle moveset and he agreed it was well made. I also(on page 123 here)proved to the world Tingle is not gay. His chances are possible and can be in. Oh and, if he is a PC and is Top Tier, I am gonna spam this whole site cause no one believed he would be in.
Also, Happy Mask Salesman FTW as well.

Speaking of which, here it is:

Creo said:
Here is that Tingle moveset if you wanted it. I couldn't find the better one so this will do for you I guess.

Tingle Moveset-

Standard Attacks
A- Jab
AA- Jab Jab
AAA- Jab Jab Headbutt
Over A- Paintbrush strike
Down A- Use his map like G@W panel thing
Up A- Headbutts them up
Running A- Jumps on stomach and slides with his P.Brush out for a hit

Special Moves(B)
B- Charges sword(optional)and Breaks Sheild like Marths Sheild Breaker
Over B- Slashes P.Brush like Over A but Shoots Paint out
Up B- Balloon Recovery that can be popped after 3 seconds of use. Allows manueverability like Pits Wings of Icarus
Down B- Pulls out Rupees to throw at people. Damage depending on what kind of Rupee you pick

Recovery-
First Jump- Height of Fox's or a little lower
Second Jump- Like Fox's
Up B Jump- His balloon

Smash Attacks-
Over Smash- Paintbrush Strike like Links in 64
Down Smash- Double Side attack like Marth or Links
Up Smash- Takes Paintbrush and swirls around while using it. Inside of it does most.

Aerial attacks-
Fair- Pulls out map in front of himself
Nair- A jumping kick like Fox's
Dair- Sticks his P.Brush down for a Meteor or Spike
Bair- Takes map with one hand and hits them with it

Final Smash-
Name- ???(haven't thought of it)
What he does- Goes onto his cloud(from his knew DS game)and takes out his sword and you slash enemies or just one in a cinamatec scene. If not cinamatec, you manuever it like Volt Tackle(except not as fast) and go and slash people. Cinamatec can be him flying towards you at high speeds and then keeps slashing you like Links.

Taunt-
Dance and Words- Tingle does his infamous dance and words of twirling around and saying Tingle, Tingle! Kooloo-Limpah!

Grabs-
Grab attacks- Headbutts him
Grab Throw in his direction- A Strike with Sword
Grab Throw opposite direction- Throws him back then throws his map like a boomerang for a hit
Grab Throw Down- Stabs them with his sword
Grab Throw Up- Throws like Jiggs does

This is probably the only and best Tingle moveset ever made.>_<

There is no denying that this certainly is workable and well thought out, but I personally have a bit of trouble seeing Tingle as swordfighter.

Sonic Wave said:
But he did actually appear in the games. He appeared in more games than all but one of the FE lords. Technically Ike doesn't command your army for 2 full games because for half of FE10 your army is controlled by other characters. So he still loses to Marth by 1/2 of a game.

I was talking about recent games. Or was it games that sold outside Japan (where most FE games are sold)? I can't remember. Either way, Marth currently lacks relivance to the Fire Emblem series.

Sonic Wave said:
Who are these other characters you're talking about. Marth deserves the spot much more than the Black Knight or Micaiah. Why take all the characters from a single game in the series when one of the most important FE lords isn't in it?

The same reason why the new Zelda maps and characters are from Twilight Princess and not Link's Awakening. Recent games in long running series like Zelda and Fire Emblem trump
the old entries in the series.

Sonic Wave said:
The Black Knight is cool and all, but not at the expense of one of the most popular and unique melee characters, who is also very important to the series. Why add a clone at the expense of cutting a unique character?

My theory:

If Marth were no longer high tier, he would no longer be NEARLY as popular.

If Marth were in the same game as Ike, he would no longer be as unique.

And since most Fire Emblem fans will never play his games, Marth is no longer important to the Fire Emblem series.

Also, if it makes you feel better, the Black Knight could easily be included with a unique moveset.

Sonic Wave said:
Micaiah only controls your army for 1/4 of her game. She has to play second seat with Ike and even though she is important storywise, Ike is still a more central character in her game and is sufficient for advertisement. Marth would also take less time to include than her because they wouldn't need to think of a move set for him. They could just take his moveset from Melee and plug the animations and hitboxes into their generic male wire frame and be done with his moves (minus a few aterations in power and speed for nerfing purposes.) Then they just use the same customization that they used to give his character color an shape in melee. That would save a lot of time for other characters.

Or, they could use Marth's wireframe and moveset in designing Ike and spend devote more time to designing a completely new Fire Emblem character. Just sayin...

Much like Roy, Miciaiah lacks any real significance to the series as a whole - but she does have a greater potential for a unique moveset than Marth, now that Brawl has undoubtebly filled it's quota of speedy swordfighters.

Sonic Wave said:
Marth is a better candidate than everyone not named Ike and as long as there's more than 1 FE spot that's all he really needs to be. I think FE will get 3 character slots so you can still have your Black Knight or Micaiah (I'd personally go with Micaiah if they have the time to give her a unique moveset), but Marth still deserves a spot.

It all depends. If Sakurai values Marth's importance as the first lord over the wider worldwide appeal (among FE fans) of more recent characters, then Marth will defoinitely get the second spot. If not, it could go to BK or Miciaiah or someone else entirely.

Regardless, I'll admit that if 3 characters get in Marth will handily nab one of the spots.

Sonic Wave said:
7 or 8 swordsmen is a fine amount considering there will be 40-45 characters. 6 original swordmen and 2 clones.
Ike
Marth
Link
WW Link/whatever other Link gets in (Link Clone)
Gannondorf (if he gets his sword)
Black Knight (Ike Clone)
Metaknight
Pit (If you really consider that tiny thing a sword.)

I see no problem with this line up. In fact I wouldn't mind seeing 1 or 2 additional swordsmen added to this list.

I don't have a problem with Swordfighters - as long as they each bring something new to the table.

Meta and Pit are variations on the new flying/swordfighter class.

Link and WW Link offer sword skills combined with the use of a multitude of varied projectiles.

Ganondorf has the potential to various punches and kicks and/or magic powers as well as his sword.

And Ike and the Black knight offer the same kind of pure swordfighting that appealed to the Marth & Roy people - only now with ranged attacks and (in the case of BK) teloportation.

Personally, I don't think we need yet another swordfighter unless they bring something new to the table.

the grim lizard said:
His own father disowned him because he wanted to be a fairyman.

I hate Tingle; I've hated him ever since he charged me like 200 rupees apiece to translate maps for me. Also, he is a slavedriver (two lookalikes in WW), and Olimar is the only slavedriver we need in Brawl.

Devastlian said:
If they've been working on it since before that comment about it on the old site, they would've (should've) said no if they'd decided against it after working on it all that time so as to not create fake hype. Reggie, despite his being kind of a figurehead and not having a lot of influence over the actual games, is still in charge of NoA and its localization teams who're very likely already working on it would probably know these things by now...unless the higher ups wanted him (and the other people asked about it) to keep quiet regardless of anything.

I guess my point is, why wouldn't Nintendo want people to assume that Brawl is online, even if this has changed? Rather than flat out denying it, they could just lie low before revealing the terrible truth just before release. It may sound dishonest, but it also sells systems.

It's sorta what they did with Prime 3. For months and months, Reggie refused to rule out online multiplayer in the game. Then last month, the truth came out that the team had focused entirely on the singleplayer experience.

In this case, I didn't much care about the lack of multiplayer (Prime has always been about the adventure for me) but they should have been clear about that from the start - rather than string hapless FPS fans along.

Sonic Wave said:
But it isn't 9 swordsmen and none of them are that similar in style (except the clones of course). They won't have bassically the same moves because only 5 of them use just swords. Pit has that Bow thing, and Link and WW Link have their bombs, boomerangs,ect.
Metaknight is obviously not going to be anything like the others and neither will Gannondorf. Black Knight is an Ike clone, but even he would offer a lot of variety (a lot like how Gannondorf is to Captain Falcon). Ike and Marth would be the closest out of the group, but there still much too different to even be considered Luigified clones. Marth will be lighter and more floaty than Ike (thus dieing more quickly) and have less powerfull, but faster attacks. Marth's got that cool tipper sweetspot thing going, but Ike doesn't necessarily need to have sweetspots on his moves (it just doesn't seem like it would fit ragnell with it's shape.) Marth's moves are vertical slashes, while Ike's are more likely to be horizontal. That makes a surprising difference in overall range and would make Ike a much more close combat unit. It's basically like a Ike as a Hero and Marth as a Swordmaster.

I guess that's my point. Marth and Ike would probably require totally unique movesets, and yet they would be the two most similar swordfighters in the game. Based soley on the uniqueness that each character brings to the roster, I don't see Marth as a worthy addtion.

freeman123 said:
WTF? I can't believe people spammed my character topic to tell me how much inferior my list was to yours. Are we in the fugging twilight zone or what?

What are they going to call this character in the game? "Midna & Wolf Link" is a stupid name for a character.

No it isn't.

I still think Dedede is going to end up like Samurai Goroh. A character everyone adds to their prediction lists that will ultimately end up an AT.

If they were going to add Wolf over Falco, they would have done it in Melee.

But you don't even know if Ike's in yet.

I'll pretend that I didn't read that.

Pretty much everything.

How is Simon Belmont very likely?

No it isn't.

Apparently not, because you chose Bonk.

No, but it's about as close to impossible as it could be. There's basically no chance of them choosing Bonk over Bomberman. Goomba is more likely than Bonk.

In which Turbographix-16 wasn't one of the fierce competitors.

No he wasn't. He was the Ralph Nader of the Mario/Sonic rivalry. No one cared who he was, and most people didn't even know he existed.

That argument is about as good as the arguments people use to support Crash Bandicoot.

You think?

Good! I guess I'm part of the problem. I don't really care about Hudson or Bomberman, but if anyone is going to represent Hudson it's common sense that it should be Bomberman.

Let's not.

That's too bad. You would have came off better had you said it was your personal wishlist.

I'd like to know why you think that there will be three Links, but only one Mario. It's freaking Mario!

Well, we can't all be reasonable and expect characters like Bonk to be in the game.

Falco was the most popular character in the series back when Star Fox was still good. And the true Star Fox fans would probably cut Fox before Falco if it was up to them. Falco is like Meta-Knight. He's not the main hero, he's not the main villain, but he probably has more fans then both put together.

Huh? Is someone there?

......?

I thought I just heard something, but I guess it was only the wind...

Eight Sage · Jul 22, 2007

Wow I admire you Wiseguy, you take time to read and reply all posts *bows*

I cant quote all, but I'll say that your predictions are by far the most "likely to be" ones.

And Simon Belmont is Very Likely, How much is very likely? well, more than "Samurai Goro is in Brawl for sure"

Edit: (As a playable character)

DonkeySmasher · Jul 23, 2007

here is donkeysmasher's 40 character slots list

mario series(6)
mario
luigi
peach
bowser
jr.
Paper mario

Zelda series (5)
link
zelda
ganandorf
midna (wolf link or not)
ww link

pokemon series(4)
pikachu
jigglypuff
mewtwo
lucario

Kirby series (3)
Kirby
Meta
Dedede

Starfox series(3)
Fox
Krystal
Wolf

Dk series (3)
DK
Diddy
K Rool

FE series (2)
Ike
Marth or B Knight

Metroid series(2)
Samus/Zamus
Ridley

Solo representatives (12)
Yoshi
Wario
Pit
Olimar
Ness or Lucas
C Falcon
Snake
Sonic
Megaman
Resetti
Mii
Something unpredictable

Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

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