Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

^^^
Gah...I got nothing. I'll lay off for now, but I won't be fully convinced until I see something other than an assumption.

YosterDragon said:

In the aim of getting more Drill Dozer converts, I have been motivated to come up with a moveset for Jill. Hope those of you that know about Drill Dozer already enjoy, and I hope this intrigues those of you that don't

The gears in my head have turned, and here's the result:

Jill, big boss of the Red Dozer gang of thieves:

-A ATTACKS-

A - Left Jab
AA - Right Jab
AAA - Left Uppercut

Dash Attack - Jill slides forward on the Dozer's underside, drill bit extended (think baseball slide).

Tilt Side - The Dozer's arms jab forward then sweep out.
Tilt Up - Three rapid upward punches with the Dozer's arms.
Tilt Down - Jill spins and sweeps low with the Dozer's arms.

Smash Side - Drilling hit a la Bowser's Smash Up: a few little hits that draw in the victim, then a big knockback blow.
Smash Up - Jill sticks the Dozer's arms out to the side, claps them up together and drills upward.
Smash Down - Jill drills into the ground, spinning the Dozer's body and striking both sides.

Neutral Air - Jill spins horizontally, striking both sides with the Dozer's arms.
Up Air - Jill backflips and the Dozer kicks upward.
Down Air - Pogo drill downward. Jill meteors the enemy and gets a little hop out of it.
Forward Air - A one-two forward move, Jill quickly drills in front and then separates the Dozer's arms to knockback the enemy.
Back Air - One of the Dozer's arms swings around and backhands behind Jill.


-THROWS-

Grab - Simple, she just grabs the enemy with the Dozer's arms.
Grab Attack - Jill stands up in the Dozer and hits the enemy held in the Dozer's arms.

Up Throw - The enemy is held high and Jill headbutts them upward.
Down Throw - Slams the enemy at her feet and drills downward into them.
Front Throw - The Dozer's arms come up together as the drill, spin the enemy and releases them forward.
Back Throw - The Dozer's arms come up together as the drill, spin the enemy and releases them backward.


-B SPECIALS-

B - Starts the Dozer's drill. Holding B keeps the drill running, releasing stops it. Pressing B again while the drill is running will shift gears (for those that haven't played the game, the drill becomes more powerful when shifted up to a max of third gear). Jill can walk with the drill running, but she will stay facing the direction she started drilling regardless of which way she walks. She cannot jump while drilling. The drill blocks projectiles, but explosive ones risk hitting Jill as the drill isn't very long.
Side B - Jill tucks into the Dozer and dashes horizontally, riding on its drive gear; can be a side recovery move (this was a move in Drill Dozer to fit in small tunnels and cross gaps).
Up B - Air Prop. A propeller sprouts from the nose of the drill, which lifts Jill up and floats her down. I see this being a very floaty jump for an otherwise quick falling character; the Dozer isn't a good jumper. If Jill catches an enemy from below, they'll be drilled into as she passes through them.
Down B - Jill drills into the ground and unearths a random throwing item. These items would be exclusive to Jill like Peach's turnips, ranging from simple rocks to the treasures found in her game.


-FINAL SMASH-

Red Dozer Backup Attack! The Red Dozer HQ van drives across the stage, plowing enemies and sending them flying.

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Well done sir. Clearly, Jill is one of the more unique character ideas out there.

One thing is for certain: if Sakurai got it into his head that he wanted to include Jill, all those $15 dollar copies would be snapped up in no time and a DS sequel would be iminent.

Smash Daddy said:

Wow, this rocketed up fast. Anyone want to give me an update on things in this topic? I was away for ages.

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Well, we've discussed pretty much everything from Monty Python jokes to F-Zero anime. I wouldn't worry about catching up on everything, just jump into a conversation when something interests you, and get caught up a bit by reading the updates to my original post. If you still feel a like an outsider, make the converstion your own by posting your own argument or character moveset. That's hust my advice.

Chief Mendez said:

Before I get started, let me clear something up:

Fire Emblem never had a serialized anime, just an OVA (called, conveniently, "Fire Emblem"), which is sort of like a made-for-TV movie, only it's animated. However, I don't know if there were supposed to be more than 2 episodes...cuz' that's all there is. Anyway, it wasn't ever tied to a specific release schedule like most anime is (1-3 episodes per month, depending on how large the studio that's making it is. For instance, as of now, Toei, the guys behind DBZ and One Piece, manage about 4 episodes of any given series a month, and they're regularly producing 2-5 different series! Then there're studios like Bones, of Fullmetal Alchemist and Wolf's Rain fame, that only pump out 2 episodes from one series per month, due to their relatively small size and high work quality), but made under the sole restriction of budget. Both episodes have been dubbed/subbed and are available in North America (just be prepared for some weird character names...apparently ADV thinks Marth should've been called "Mars").

...Where was I again? Forgive me my rambling ways.

F-ZERO GP Legend has a total 51 episodes, all of which aired in Japan on a regular month-by-month basis. The show was canceled (i.e. stopped airing without a conclusion) in North America.

Now that that's out of the way...

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Thanks for the history lesson. I'll use the abismal failure of Marth's anime as amunition in my next scrap with Marth fans.

Chief Mendez said:

My bad. I meant to repond to that, but I must've missed it. What I was going to say was something to the effect of: "the characters from BW are all really bad sterotypes, and the game wasn't as good as any of the AW games anyway".

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Don't sweat it. I was only yanking your chain because its the kind of mistake I make all the time...

I suppose the different countries in BW and their characters are kind of steriotypes, but the coutries all have fiction names and the characterizations are so over the top and tounge-in-cheak that I doubt anyone would be offended by them. I found the characters in BW to be pretty entertaining.

I wish I could challenge your claim of AW supremesy (I'm a huge BW fan), but that one is still on my to-do list (though it was one of the reasons I purchased a DS). I'll get back to you on that one...

Chief Mendez said:

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2008304

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Dear Mr. Wright,

Fine. I give. I wave the white flag in surrender. You win.

Clearly I was foolish to get in a war of words with the legendary Phoenix Wright.

Phoenix Wright Brings the awesome! And I won't question that again in the future, sir.

Sincerely, Wiseguy

Chief Mendez said:

Ever wonder why his theme song plays during the Bg Blue stage?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qRnE43j7c1g

Personally, I don't believe those rumors (Mach Rider and Balloon Fighter), just on principle.

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Interesting... but is this a point in favor of MR or against? (If it's true...) Afterall, if they chose not to include him in Melee they must have had a reason.

Chief Mendez said:

The DS one's definitely an improvement, but from what I've seen of the pre-GCN iterations, there's not much to love about the series.

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Interesting. But given the Japanese love for all things ginat robot, Ray's Brawl debute is still a possibility.

Chief Mendez said:

Never gonna' happen. Reaction Commands would never work out.

"Warp Snipe: Teleport across the room and swing your Wii Remote in a vertical arc to reflect enemy lasers back at them!"

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I'll take your word for it.

Chief Mendez said:

Space Station Tycoon, from Namco-Bandai (Bandai-Namco?) and...I don't know the developer, but it's coming in August for Wii and I think PSP.

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Thanks. Let's hope they design it for the Wii and port it to the PSP - and not the other way around...

Chief Mendez said:

Hey, I bought one so I could find out who that 'guy' in the space suit was.

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Wait. Are you implying that Samus ISN'T a guy?!?

Chief Mendez said:

Gah! The Itadaki Street games are even worse than the Mario Party games of late! Don't even mention a character from one being in Smash!

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Yeah, and isn't that game Japanese only as well?

I looked it up on Wiki and the Jessica from the game is actually the same Jessica from Dragon Quest VIII - which infuriates meto no end! Neither Trode nor Yangus are anywhere to be found in the game, because SE chose the least interesting character to represent DQ8. If they had chosen Trode for the crappy DS party game, you can bet that I would start a Trode thread and dedicate my life to convincing people that his appearance in Brawl was iminent. So sad...

Chief Mendez said:

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Geez, I put up Mach Rider as requested and I get complaints becuase I didn't include Joe. I suppose when I get around to him, I'll get grief for not including Phoenix...

Anyway, good things come to those who wait. I'll get around to Joe before too long.

Chief Mendez said:

No no, I meant in Abyss; there's no multiplayer option. From the pulled out camera (the zoome-in camera from Symphonia really hurt multiplayer), you'd think there would be a multiplayer mode, but no...a strictly single player affair.

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LukeFonFabre said:

Abyss is multiplayer, just like Symphonia. You just have to set the other characters in the group to manual mode as opposed to auto. Though the PS2 doesn't make it easy for all 4 characters to be player controlled, seeing as you need a multi-tap for 4 players.

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Chief Mendez said:

Luke: I never knew that...holy poop. I must've been thinking of Legendia.

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Ah HA! Let this forever be known as the day that the great Encyclopedia Brown of videogames was WRONG!

Good thing two. No multiplayer in Abyss would be a huge letdown. Online Wii sequel anyone?

Chief Mendez said:

I have yet to see any proof of this. The only thing anyone's directed me to is the KH2 website, which only lists "all FF characters" as property of Square-Enix. It never mentions the "KH characters", like Kairi and Xigbar, as being owned by anyone...but I don't see why you'd assume that a character created by SE, for use in a SE-developed game would be the property of anyone but SE.

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Devastlian said:

It doesn't have to make sense to you as long as it's the truth. Just because you make something doesn't mean you own it. You have to own the copyright for it to own the copyright for it, which Disney does.

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Chief Mendez said:

^^^
Then show me a copyright, and I'll let it go.

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Devastlian said:

http://disney.go.com/disneyinteractivestudios/product.html?platform=ps2&game=kh2

It doesn't have to specify every little thing as being their copyright as, given the way it is structured, everything except the things it specifically says aren't are understood to be theirs.

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Chief Mendez said:

^^^
Gah...I got nothing. I'll lay off for now, but I won't be fully convinced until I see something other than an assumption.

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Devastlian said:

I'm not assuming anything. But...I'd rather not dwell on this, either.

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Here's a question: does it matter one way or another? Nintendo has a solid working relationship with Disney (they are the ones who let Disney put all those crappy GBA and DS games on their platforms) and like all bussinesses, Disney is vulnerable to the awesome power of money. If Nintendo and Square want Sora in Brawl, Disney will let it happen when they get a check with enough zeros.

The question is this: Why would Nintendo fork over a check, with a ton of zeros on it, for a character that isn't worth a dime? There are other characters that sport the Nintendo name a lot more and would be much less of a waste of time (and money).

Chief Mendez said:

The DS one's definitely an improvement, but from what I've seen of the pre-GCN iterations, there's not much to love about the series.

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It's funny you should say that. I've yet to play the DS Custom Robo, so I can't weigh in an opinion there. But my experience and (at least I thought anyway) the opinions of fans of the series is that the N64 Custom Robos were much better than the GCN one. Custom Robo V2 in particular is the best of the series IMHO.

Wiseguy said:

Well done sir. Clearly, Jill is one of the more unique character ideas out there.

One thing is for certain: if Sakurai got it into his head that he wanted to include Jill, all those $15 dollar copies would be snapped up in no time and a DS sequel would be iminent.

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Thank you much, good sir. Life is always better with robots, particularly rideable robots with giant drills.

Wiseguy said:

Interesting. But given the Japanese love for all things ginat robot, Ray's Brawl debute is still a possibility.

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See above reply Not only that, but it's scientific fact that chicks dig giant robots.

Wiseguy said:

Gezz, I put up Mach Rider as requested and I get complaints becuase I didn't include Joe. I suppose when I get around to him, I'll get grief for not including Phoenix...

Anyway, good things come to those who wait. I'll get around to Joe before too long.

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You can't please all of the people all of the time. I believe that's how the saying goes. But hey, props for adding Mach Rider to the runners up list.

Hadn't thought of VJ yet, acutally. Given his debut performance on the GCN, I suppose he's a pretty worthy contendor...that, and he's just friggin' awesome. Too bad after his first two games, spinoff-itis set in and the quality of his games started sliding.

Copperpot said:

The question is this: Why would Nintendo fork over a check, with a ton of zeros on it, for a character that isn't worth a dime? There are other characters that sport the Nintendo name a lot more and would be much less of a waste of time (and money).

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Well, Kingdom Hearts does have alot of fans (although I'm not one of them) so its reasonable to assume that Sora's inclusion would cause many Square Enix fans to buy Brawl. Also, if they are on the fense over whether to purchase a Wii or PS3, this could potentially tip the scales in the Wii's favor. Heck, it many even be enough to get Square to make the next KH game for the Wii.

YosterDragon said:

See above reply Not only that, but it's scientific fact that chicks dig giant robots.

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Can't argue with that...

YosterDragon said:

You can't please all of the people all of the time. I believe that's how the saying goes. But hey, props for adding Mach Rider to the runners up list.

Hadn't thought of VJ yet, acutally. Given his debut performance on the GCN, I suppose he's a pretty worthy contendor...that, and he's just friggin' awesome. Too bad after his first two games, spinoff-itis set in and the quality of his games started sliding.

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Yeah, I actually had high hopes for Red Hot Rumble as it had a destinct Melee vibe from the trailers. Then every review said it stank, so I didn't bother checking it out.

Will we ever see another True VJ game?

i personally don't own any custom robo games, though i have played 1 and 2 for the GCN. the were very fun. i never even thought of including Ray 01 in brawl untill suggested by someone in this forum site. i thought it was a great idea because custom robo is becoming increasingly popular, with games on multiple systems. and i heard there is one coming out for the wii. i think the series deserves some rep in brawl.

I think the same problem with Pokemon will happen if they put a custom robo character in. There will be arguments about who is worthy to be in. There are several characters that I think would be great in it (and by characters I mean robos, not the people). My vote would go to Ray Mk 02, since that's the one you start with, and he's a trophy in Melee. The only Custom Robo game I've played is the recent one on DS, are the other ones as good? I'll go get them if they are...

also, I'm trying to find the post about Custom Robo being included. McFox, you said to search Custom Robo, I didn't see any thread specifically about any custom robos except the one you shut down. (sorry so much interest, I just finished playing it, so it's fresh in my mind still)

Wiseguy said:

Well, Kingdom Hearts does have alot of fans (although I'm not one of them) so its reasonable to assume that Sora's inclusion would cause many Square Enix fans to buy Brawl. Also, if they are on the fense over whether to purchase a Wii or PS3, this could potentially tip the scales in the Wii's favor. Heck, it many even be enough to get Square to make the next KH game for the Wii.

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Very true, but the only way I could see a die-hard Kingdom Hearts fan buying a Wii over a PS3 is if the third installment of the game was confirmed for a Nintendo release. A few of the more fortunate ones may buy both consoles, but in the end, the Kingdom Hearts fans will sway toward whatever system brings them that game, not Brawl.

By the way, great list. It's pretty much a solid compilation of not only your original ideas, but everyone's. Obviously, there are a lot of third-party characters (go Geno!) in there, but that's okay considerring that it is more of a wish-list than anything. Keeping that in mind, as far as third-party characters go, I'd like to see one of the characters from Gunstar Heroes (they starred in a game on the GBA, I believe) on there. If I had access to their pictures at work, I'd post one up, but unfortunately I don't.

TDub301 said:

I think the same problem with Pokemon will happen if they put a custom robo character in. There will be arguments about who is worthy to be in. There are several characters that I think would be great in it (and by characters I mean robos, not the people). My vote would go to Ray Mk 02, since that's the one you start with, and he's a trophy in Melee. The only Custom Robo game I've played is the recent one on DS, are the other ones as good? I'll go get them if they are...

also, I'm trying to find the post about Custom Robo being included. McFox, you said to search Custom Robo, I didn't see any thread specifically about any custom robos except the one you shut down. (sorry so much interest, I just finished playing it, so it's fresh in my mind still)

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No need to be sorry at all; this thread is pretty much a free for all

I'd highly suggest tracking down Custom Robo V2 for the N64. It's really easy to mod your N64, as it's only a physical lockout. I thought it was worth it anyhow, for Custom Robo V2 and Sin & Punishment (if you don't know about S&P, the short story is it was a Treasure developed on-rails shooter exclusive to the N64--very fun game, plus it had English dubbing and text for whatever reason, so it was very importer friendly). And don't be scared by the Japanese, the main menu is really easy to figure out and the NPCs lead you to each battle practically by the hand, so no comprehension required! That, and the story is pretty easy to figure out as you watch what happens.

Aaaaaaanyways, back to my point, I think V2 is definitely the high point of the series. Custom Robo for the GCN wasn't as good; while the combat is almost identical to its N64 predecessors, it somehow didn't feel as tight or polished. That, and instead of keeping the old-school anime giant robot feel of the N64 Robos, they tried to make then all shiny and "XTREME" looking, which was a step back IMHO. I've yet to try the DS one, but the fact that they went back to the original graphical style makes me hopeful at least; I know I'll try it soon enough.

And I agree, a representative of the Ray series of Robos would be the best for Brawl, probably the Ray Mk II.

Ok, thanks for the info. I finished the story mode of the DS game and am now just basically trying to get all the parts. I liked the game, but never played any of the others so my critique of it probably wouldn't do you much good if you played the others. I think I'll go pick up the gamecube one (it's probably cheap) and look into that 64 version.

By the way, Wiseguy, I like your list too. Makes a lot of sense. Aside from Ridley and Sonic, I hope Simon Belmont gets in. As long as that happens and the roster is like 40 characters or more, I'll be satisfied. I may be one of the few people that feels that all the characters from Melee should return, though. Not that I like all of them, I honestly don't know why, I just think they should all come back (except Pichu, if I had to choose one that was kinda pointless imo)

TDub301 said:

Ok, thanks for the info. I finished the story mode of the DS game and am now just basically trying to get all the parts. I liked the game, but never played any of the others so my critique of it probably wouldn't do you much good if you played the others. I think I'll go pick up the gamecube one (it's probably cheap) and look into that 64 version.

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Happy to help. And yeah, you'll probably enjoy the GCN Custom Robo, I wouldn't recommend against it if you're getting into the series. I liked it despite its flaws, it's just that V2 was better

SAMaine said:

Midna & Wolf Link, Midna as a Twili, and Skull Kid are less likely than Tingle, merely on the basis that Tingle is a recurring character and a LOT more well-known than Balloon Fighter. Also, who doesn't want to beat up Tingle?

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Someone obviously doesn't keep up with the Japaneese and their games.

Tingle has a game all his own in Japan, I'll give you that much. Contrary to the rest of the world, the Japaneese love Tingle, Miaymoto knows this...hence why his game is a Japan-only game.

Sakurai knows that Tingle is probably the most hated game character in existence (at least in America,) and also knows that putting him in Brawl would be a disaster.

In conclusion, Tingle does have a chance to get into Brawl, but Midna is far more likely.

It's quite interesting that despite Japans love for the little green man, he didn't seem to show up on Sakurai's poll at all. As Sakurai as clearly stated he's keeping all regions in mind, and Nintendo seems incredibly aware of Tingle's poor reception outside of Japan, it could very well be that Sakurai is hesitant to add Tingle because of that very reason. Not to mention that the recent Big Zelda game, Twilight Princess, was Tingle-less.

While I've no doubt that Tingle will get into Brawl in some way or form, whether he'll be playable is another question.

Just thought I'd let you guys know that they are planing to release the Tingle game in Europe which can only increase his chances. BTW Tingle was in TP in the form of Purlo.

Aside from the hammer, how is King Dedede a clone of Kirby?
His Bv would probably be nearly identical to Yoshi's, except slower, and with a greater damage radius.
Not sure what his B^ would be, but his normal B would be sucking up and spitting out other Brawlers. Unlike Kirby, he wouldn't be able to swallow. But spitting out causes massive damage.
And Dx3 is bound to be heavier than Kirby, though with essentially the same recovery.

I have to scoop right out to the library, but there was a post I wanted to answer to before going...

Copperpot said:

Very true, but the only way I could see a die-hard Kingdom Hearts fan buying a Wii over a PS3 is if the third installment of the game was confirmed for a Nintendo release.

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Hi there. I am a hardcore KH fan. I have completed the three of them with pretty much everything, written essays on interpreting the secret endings, and one of the clans I am affiliated with is called Organization XIII. I have a Wii, I always intended to buy it, and I do not intend to even look at the PS3 until KH3 is released, because it is the only game announced right now that causes the slightest tinge of interest in me. And even then, I'll probably just play it in a friend's house if the PS3 hasn't dramatically dropped its price. So yeah, you might want to rethink your position there, man .

That's not fair, I live in Europe! I don't want him anymore than you guys do!

Though the fact that they seem to be omitting America does still suggests something.

And Purlo was meant to represent Tingle? Would make sense, they are both money hungry and dress weirdly.

Edit: This was addressed to Numa Dude by the way, just so you don't think I'm going crasy.

Hi there, this is my first post here, though I've been lurking around this thread. (I've read the whole thing once, and part of it TWICE.) After seeing all the logical, weel thoughtout disscussion, I've decided to join in. And what better way to start than by trying your 40 character challenge, Wiseguy.

Well, here I go.

Mario Series

1) Mario - 'Nuff said.

2) Luigi - Mario Clone It would be nice to see some of his moves based on his more recent appearences.

3) Peach - Once agaain, it would be cool to a see a moveset based on her more recent starring roles.

4) Bowser - Not much to say.

5) Bowser Jr. - A speedier Bowser-type with a paintbrush based moveset would be a welcome addition to Brawl.

TLOZ Series

6) TP Link - Again, not much to say.

7) WW Link - TP Link Clone I don't care what anyone says, I think he's unique enough to deserve a spot. "Celda" my ***!

8) Zelda - Long live the sword-weilding, Shiekless Zelda!

9) Gannondorf - Please, Sakurai, stop taunting us and give hime the sword! (Side note: We seem to like seeing Zelda series chars. have swords, don't we?)

10) Midna w. Wolf Link - Orginally I just wanted Midna on her own, but after seeing the amazing moveset on this thread, I reconsidered.

Pokemon Series

11) Pikachu - Okay, I admit it, I've been a Pikachu main since SSB64, and I don't see that changing.

12) Jigglypuff - Stupid Purin.... Wish you'd go away...

13) Mewtwo - I honestly don't really see a need for him to go. He is villianous, and I feel he deserves one more chance.

14) Lucario - Seeing as he stared in a movie, and there are very few of them in the game, he seems like a good shot.

15) Dexoys - Eh, why not?

Metroid Series

16/17) Samus/ Zero Suit Samus - I hope they don't mess this up. Otherwise..... *Shudders*

18) Ridley - The Smash series needs more villians, and who better than a flying psace dragon?

Kirby Series

19) Kirby - Kirby, Kirby, Kirby, Kirby, Kirb. (Translation: He's a shoe in.)

20) Metaknight - I've always liked him, and we need more "mysterious" characters.

21) King Dedede - Kirby Clone Um... Ahh... DON'T HURT ME FANS! *Runs away*

Starfox Series

22) Fox McCloud - I don't care what anyone says Fox, I think your boots are stylish.

23) Krystal - A staff wielder would be an interesting addition.

24) Falco - We may disagree on this, but I think Falco would be bad*** with an original moveset.

25) Wolf - Fox Clone Once again, DON'T HURT ME FANS! *Runs*

Donkey Kong Series

26) Donkey Kong - Promise us one thing, Sakurai: You'll remove the DK Rap.

27) Diddy Kong - He's been in the shadows for too long a time. Its Diddy's turn to shine.

28) King K. Rool - Bowser Clone I'd prefer his pirate form, but eh, whatever.

Fire Emblem Series

29) Marth

30) Ike

31) Lyn

I know we're going to disagree on this, so let me present my view. Instead of only using chars. from the games that have been released worldwide, I think a different compromise should be reached. Marth represents both the character who is Japan only, as well as the older part of the FE series. Lyn, the female rep., represents the games popular in the West, as well as the middle part of the series. And Ike represents the joining of the FE fandom, as well as the newer parts of FE histroy. I feel that's a fair arrangement. BTW, I like the Black Knight, I just think we need a better balance of heroes before we add a villian.

*Dodges Wiseguy's Anime argument* HA!

F-Zero Series

32) Captain Falcon - Um, Ryo Horikawa rocks, and does a much better Vegeta than the English Vegeta? FALCON ... PUNCH!

33) Samurai Goroh - Captain Falcon Clone Eyuup.

Earthbound/Mother Series

34) Ness - I actually had Earthbound (It came in the big box with the Player's Guide) so I knew who he was when he appeared in SSB64

35) Lucas - Ness Clone Once again, we disagree, but I believe in compromising between East and West. Plus Smash got FE released, maybe it will work for Mother 3.

Other Series

36) Yoshi - YOSHI!

37) Wario - I've always liked the Wario games. At least he isn't invincible like he was in some of his earlier adventures.

38) Pit - You've finally returned.

39) Tom Nook - Everyone knows he is Nintendo's ULTIMATE villian.

40) Captian Olimar - Orginally I knew next to nothing about Pikmin, and was against his conclusion. But after coming here, that all changed. And thus a puppy was born.

41) Mach Rider - After reading this thread, I decided there needs to be at least one vehicle based fighter in Smash, and MAch seems the best for the job.

42) Ray - Samus Clone Now, this is going to likely throw a lot of you, so let me explain. Samus's main attacks are gun, rockets, and bombs. The Custom Robo's three types of attack are: Guns, missles, and bombs. Thus, modify the moveset a bit, remove any morph ball, and change the up-b from from the Screw Attack to jets. There you have it, and workable, and yet unique, clone.

Third Party

43) Snake - It takes a real man to wear a mullet.

44) Sonic - Three blue anthros in one game. Hmm.... What?

45) Geno - I have fond memories of beating SMRPG together with my babysitter back in the day.

So there is my list. So with original characters counting a 1, and clones counting as 1/3, heres the numbers:

Originals - Mario, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr., TP Link, Zelda, Gannondorf, Midna w. Wolf Link, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Lucario, Deoxys, Samus/Zamus, Ridley, Kirby, Metaknight, Fox, Krystal, Falco, DK, Diddy, Marth, Ike, Lyn, Captain Falcon, Ness, Yoshi, Wario, Pit, Tom Nook, Captain Olimar, Mach Rider, Snake, Sonic, Geno - (37)

Clones- Luigi, WW Link, King Dedede, Wolf, King K. Rool, Samurai Goroh, Lucas, Ray - (2 2/3)

Total- 39 2/3 Characters

I have a challenge for you Wiseguy: Who would you add as a last clone, WITHOUT cloning someone twice (such as two Samus clones)?

Before I go, here is my top five runner up:

1) Vaati - I like a short villian.

2) Simon Belmont - Konami's already on board, so it's a good chance.

3) Soren - We need more magic users, and another FE char. would be alright in my book.

4) Megaman - I like the Blue Bomber, but I like Ray better, and Ray is 1st/2nd party.

5) Skull Kid- And fanciful design, and MM always gets the shaft.

Well, that's it from me. Good thread, Wiseguy, and great thoughts everybody.

Sanrei out.

I have to leave in a few minutes, and I'll be gone for the next five hours. I know you all will miss me to the point of tearing your own heart out, but just bear with it; it's only five hours. If you'reseriously having trouble, just try crying into a pillow for a while, that always helps me whenever I leave myself.

Wiseguy said:

I suppose the different countries in BW and their characters are kind of steriotypes, but the coutries all have fiction names and the characterizations are so over the top and tounge-in-cheak that I doubt anyone would be offended by them. I found the characters in BW to be pretty entertaining.

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I think that came out wrong. I liked BW (not as good as AW), partly in part(?) because of the characters. As dumb as they were, they were mildly funny. More personality than some of the AW COs, in any case.

However, the gameplay sort of spoiled it for me. I got really tangled up partway through the game trying to select and direct the proper units while simultaneously trying to pick out the right targets for whatever unit I was controlling...the game would have really benefited from a co-op mode (and that snazzy WaveBird-keyboard hybrid thingy).

Wiseguy said:

Wait. Are you implying that Samus ISN'T a guy?!?

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Okay.

You may want to sit down for this one.

...

Are you sitting comfortably? Good.

...

Sure you're ready?

Wiseguy said:

I looked it up on Wiki and the Jessica from the game is actually the same Jessica from Dragon Quest VIII - which infuriates meto no end! Neither Trode nor Yangus are anywhere to be found in the game, because SE chose the least interesting character to represent DQ8. If they had chosen Trode for the crappy DS party game, you can bet that I would start a Trode thread and dedicate my life to convincing people that his appearance in Brawl was iminent. So sad...

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I'm...pretty sure Angelo's in there too. Yangus maybe, but I'm not 100% on that one.

Wiseguy said:

Ah HA! Let this forever be known as the day that the great Encyclopedia Brown of videogames was WRONG!

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I feel your pain Raiden...*sniff*...I feel your pain.

Wiseguy said:

Here's a question: does it matter one way or another? Nintendo has a solid working relationship with Disney (they are the ones who let Disney put all those crappy GBA and DS games on their platforms) and like all bussinesses, Disney is vulnerable to the awesome power of money. If Nintendo and Square want Sora in Brawl, Disney will let it happen when they get a check with enough zeros.

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Well, maybe it doesn't matter too much, but dealing with two companies is always tougher than working with one.

YosterDragon said:

It's funny you should say that. I've yet to play the DS Custom Robo, so I can't weigh in an opinion there. But my experience and (at least I thought anyway) the opinions of fans of the series is that the N64 Custom Robos were much better than the GCN one. Custom Robo V2 in particular is the best of the series IMHO.

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Well, I won't argue with that, since I was only briefly introduced to V2 and GX. I used to play the first one all the time though, and aside from the "old school robot" feel you mentioned, it wasn't much better than the GCN version.

Wiseguy said:

Yeah, I actually had high hopes for Red Hot Rumble as it had a destinct Melee vibe from the trailers. Then every review said it stank, so I didn't bother checking it out.

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I was the same way, and recently my Gamestop had a GCN clearout sale, and Red Hot Rumble was there, so I picked it up for 5$ (along with Cubivore, Geist and Future Tactics)....and yeah, it pretty much stinks. Instead of focusing on combat, they force you to complete a series of asinine minigames in each stage. What a load.

Copperpot said:

I'd like to see one of the characters from Gunstar Heroes (they starred in a game on the GBA, I believe) on there. If I had access to their pictures at work, I'd post one up, but unfortunately I don't.

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From right to left: Gunstar Red, Gunstar Blue, and...uh, I think it's just 'Yellow'. Fun game, but notas goodas the Genesis original (it's on the VC! Go download it NOW!)

YosterDragon said:

I'd highly suggest tracking down Custom Robo V2 for the N64. It's really easy to mod your N64, as it's only a physical lockout. I thought it was worth it anyhow, for Custom Robo V2 and Sin & Punishment (if you don't know about S&P, the short story is it was a Treasure developed on-rails shooter exclusive to the N64--very fun game, plus it had English dubbing and text for whatever reason, so it was very importer friendly). And don't be scared by the Japanese, the main menu is really easy to figure out and the NPCs lead you to each battle practically by the hand, so no comprehension required! That, and the story is pretty easy to figure out as you watch what happens.

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All you have to do is snap off those little "arms" in the dust sheild, right? I never got around to doing it, but it seems much simpler than what it takes in a GCN or PS2. Also, Sin & Punishment needs to be released on the VC. Treasure's said they made the game "with North American gamers in mind", and...and...and it's just so awesome!

Numa Dude said:

Just thought I'd let you guys know that they are planing to release the Tingle game in Europe which can only increase his chances. BTW Tingle was in TP in the form of Purlo.

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Sure it's just Europe? I remember reading that a while back on C3, but I don't think they mentioned any territories, just "it's being localized for English-speakers". Also, who's Purlo? You mean that hookshot-game guy? I thought that too, but...he wasn't awesome enough to be Tingle reincarnated...

Copperpot said:

Very true, but the only way I could see a die-hard Kingdom Hearts fan buying a Wii over a PS3 is if the third installment of the game was confirmed for a Nintendo release.

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What Drascin said. I've never owned a PS2 in my life, but I still managed to play both KH titles, and as a result, the 2nd one's one of my top 5 favorite PS2 games. I'm sure I'll still get to play the 3rd one eventually (assuming people start buying more PS3s...I onlyknow of one guy who has one, and that's only because he's obscenely rich). Believe it or not, most people aren't willing to slap down more than half-a-grand to play one game.

While I'm on the subject, Drascin: since you seem to be KH-knowledgable, what keyblade did you use vs. Sephiroth? Specifically on Proud mode?

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

And that's that.

I'd like to now take a moment to thank all of you for having such great grammar and spelling skillz. I'm not sure what it is about this thread that repels illiterates, but whatever it is, I'm thankful for it's presence.

EDIT- Look up a post. See what I mean? The only people we get in this thread are people who can think and type at the same time. It's just wonderful.

Daisuke Sanrei said:

42) Ray - Samus Clone Now, this is going to likely throw a lot of you, so let me explain. Samus's main attacks are gun, rockets, and bombs. The Custom Robo's three types of attack are: Guns, missles, and bombs. Thus, modify the moveset a bit, remove any morph ball, and change the up-b from from the Screw Attack to jets. There you have it, and workable, and yet unique, clone.

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Hey, now that's actually a rather sensible idea. If it meant the difference between getting Ray and not getting Ray, I'd take it.

Oh, and welcome to Smashboards from a fellow n00b

Chief Mendez said:

All you have to do is snap off those little "arms" in the dust sheild, right? I never got around to doing it, but it seems much simpler than what it takes in a GCN or PS2. Also, Sin & Punishment needs to be released on the VC. Treasure's said they made the game "with North American gamers in mind", and...and...and it's just so awesome!

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Sort of, you're thinking of the SNES, though it's pretty much the same thing. I did the snapping of the arms to my SNES so I could play Rockman & Forte. Yes, I know they localized it on the GBA but I'm a huuuuuge Megaman geek

Anyhow, If you look at the back of a N64 cart you'll see two notches where the bottom corners should be; they correspond to raised corners in the bottom of the cartridge slot on the system. Japanese carts are missing those notches, so they won't fit in an American N64. All you have to do is remove those corners; I (very, very, very carefully!) used a Dremel to file them away.

Glad somebody else knows the awesomeness of Sin & Punishment. I can't for the life of me figure out why it was never sold in the US & Europe, it was practically localized already!

Chief Mendez said:

I'd like to now take a moment to thank all of you for having such great grammar and spelling skillz. I'm not sure what it is about this thread that repels illiterates, but whatever it is, I'm thankful for it's presence.

EDIT- Look up a post. See what I mean? The only people we get in this thread are people who can think and type at the same time. It's just wonderful.

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I second this. It's refreshing to see full sentences with *gasp* correct spellings and punctuation!

I've once again updated my list with another runner up.

Speaking of updates, the recent ones on Smash Dojo have been pretty great. I'm sure I'm not the first to say this, but Samus' new look is nothing short of stunning. Waking up every weekday to discover a new batch of screenshots to drool over is so enjoyable that I'm almost glad we didn't get one large update following the infamous countdown clock (almost).

samusrules93 said:

i personally don't own any custom robo games, though i have played 1 and 2 for the GCN. the were very fun. i never even thought of including Ray 01 in brawl untill suggested by someone in this forum site. i thought it was a great idea because custom robo is becoming increasingly popular, with games on multiple systems. and i heard there is one coming out for the wii. i think the series deserves some rep in brawl.

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Also, I beleive he appeared on Sakurai's poll. That's hardly confirmation, but it is a safe indication that he must have been at least considered for a spot on the Brawl roster - however briefly.

TDub301 said:

I think the same problem with Pokemon will happen if they put a custom robo character in. There will be arguments about who is worthy to be in. There are several characters that I think would be great in it (and by characters I mean robos, not the people). My vote would go to Ray Mk 02, since that's the one you start with, and he's a trophy in Melee. The only Custom Robo game I've played is the recent one on DS, are the other ones as good? I'll go get them if they are...

also, I'm trying to find the post about Custom Robo being included. McFox, you said to search Custom Robo, I didn't see any thread specifically about any custom robos except the one you shut down. (sorry so much interest, I just finished playing it, so it's fresh in my mind still)

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No prob. Here's the Ray topic:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=75594&highlight=robo

and the official custom robo topic:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=80102&highlight=robo

Copperpot said:

Very true, but the only way I could see a die-hard Kingdom Hearts fan buying a Wii over a PS3 is if the third installment of the game was confirmed for a Nintendo release. A few of the more fortunate ones may buy both consoles, but in the end, the Kingdom Hearts fans will sway toward whatever system brings them that game, not Brawl.

By the way, great list. It's pretty much a solid compilation of not only your original ideas, but everyone's. Obviously, there are a lot of third-party characters (go Geno!) in there, but that's okay considerring that it is more of a wish-list than anything. Keeping that in mind, as far as third-party characters go, I'd like to see one of the characters from Gunstar Heroes (they starred in a game on the GBA, I believe) on there. If I had access to their pictures at work, I'd post one up, but unfortunately I don't.

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I suppose it varies on the KH fan, but since we don't know what platfrom the next KH game will appear on, a simple cameo by Sora could be all it takes to give Wii the edge.

Thanks for the compliment. Admittedly, there is a strong "wish list" component to my list, though many of the characters (like Sonic, Sora, ect) are characters that I think would please the largest nummber of gamers, though they are not neccessarily ones that I personally want to see.

As a Nintendo Power reader, I've heard about the Gunstar heroes, although I haven't played it. With the awesome power of Google image search, I give you the Gunstar Heroes:



Edit: Drat. Mendez beat me to it. Looks like I'm not the only one who uses Google image search.

YosterDragon said:

No need to be sorry at all; this thread is pretty much a free for all

I'd highly suggest tracking down Custom Robo V2 for the N64. It's really easy to mod your N64, as it's only a physical lockout. I thought it was worth it anyhow, for Custom Robo V2 and Sin & Punishment (if you don't know about S&P, the short story is it was a Treasure developed on-rails shooter exclusive to the N64--very fun game, plus it had English dubbing and text for whatever reason, so it was very importer friendly). And don't be scared by the Japanese, the main menu is really easy to figure out and the NPCs lead you to each battle practically by the hand, so no comprehension required! That, and the story is pretty easy to figure out as you watch what happens.

Aaaaaaanyways, back to my point, I think V2 is definitely the high point of the series. Custom Robo for the GCN wasn't as good; while the combat is almost identical to its N64 predecessors, it somehow didn't feel as tight or polished. That, and instead of keeping the old-school anime giant robot feel of the N64 Robos, they tried to make then all shiny and "XTREME" looking, which was a step back IMHO. I've yet to try the DS one, but the fact that they went back to the original graphical style makes me hopeful at least; I know I'll try it soon enough.

And I agree, a representative of the Ray series of Robos would be the best for Brawl, probably the Ray Mk II.

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The GC game left a bad taste in my mouth, but I may check out other entries into the series on Wii or the Virtual console...

TDub301 said:

Ok, thanks for the info. I finished the story mode of the DS game and am now just basically trying to get all the parts. I liked the game, but never played any of the others so my critique of it probably wouldn't do you much good if you played the others. I think I'll go pick up the gamecube one (it's probably cheap) and look into that 64 version.

By the way, Wiseguy, I like your list too. Makes a lot of sense. Aside from Ridley and Sonic, I hope Simon Belmont gets in. As long as that happens and the roster is like 40 characters or more, I'll be satisfied. I may be one of the few people that feels that all the characters from Melee should return, though. Not that I like all of them, I honestly don't know why, I just think they should all come back (except Pichu, if I had to choose one that was kinda pointless imo)

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I'm glad you liked my list. Actually, there are quite a few Smash fans who share your desire to see the entire cast of Melee return. I would also feel somewhat bad to see characters cut(I do main Doc after all) but at the end of the day I would much rather have as many newcomers as possible in Brawl and dig out Melee when I want a taste of the past.

Ferro De Lupe said:

Someone obviously doesn't keep up with the Japaneese and their games.

Tingle has a game all his own in Japan, I'll give you that much. Contrary to the rest of the world, the Japaneese love Tingle, Miaymoto knows this...hence why his game is a Japan-only game.

Sakurai knows that Tingle is probably the most hated game character in existence (at least in America,) and also knows that putting him in Brawl would be a disaster.

In conclusion, Tingle does have a chance to get into Brawl, but Midna is far more likely.

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I couldn't have said it better myself.

On an unrelated matter, would you mind if I quoted your Midna/Wolf moveset over at Mendez's Zelda thread?

LukeFonFabre said:

It's quite interesting that despite Japans love for the little green man, he didn't seem to show up on Sakurai's poll at all. As Sakurai as clearly stated he's keeping all regions in mind, and Nintendo seems incredibly aware of Tingle's poor reception outside of Japan, it could very well be that Sakurai is hesitant to add Tingle because of that very reason. Not to mention that the recent Big Zelda game, Twilight Princess, was Tingle-less.

While I've no doubt that Tingle will get into Brawl in some way or form, whether he'll be playable is another question.

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I agree, especially the last part. I'd like to see Tingle return as a stage hazard in a Wind Waker themed map.

Numa Dude said:

Just thought I'd let you guys know that they are planing to release the Tingle game in Europe which can only increase his chances. BTW Tingle was in TP in the form of Purlo.

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Now that you mention it, the resemblance is uncany...

pineappleupsetshark said:

Aside from the hammer, how is King Dedede a clone of Kirby?
His Bv would probably be nearly identical to Yoshi's, except slower, and with a greater damage radius.
Not sure what his B^ would be, but his normal B would be sucking up and spitting out other Brawlers. Unlike Kirby, he wouldn't be able to swallow. But spitting out causes massive damage.
And Dx3 is bound to be heavier than Kirby, though with essentially the same recovery.

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Well, in addition to his hammer and ability to suck in his opponents Dx3 also shares the ability to fly for a period of time. True, his down B would likely be more similar to Yoshi's or Bowser's and his Down-B would likely be a unique move, but he is still a strong candidate for a Luigi-style clone, the way I see it.

Drascin said:

I have to scoop right out to the library, but there was a post I wanted to answer to before going...

Hi there. I am a hardcore KH fan. I have completed the three of them with pretty much everything, written essays on interpreting the secret endings, and one of the clans I am affiliated with is called Organization XIII. I have a Wii, I always intended to buy it, and I do not intend to even look at the PS3 until KH3 is released, because it is the only game announced right now that causes the slightest tinge of interest in me. And even then, I'll probably just play it in a friend's house if the PS3 hasn't dramatically dropped its price. So yeah, you might want to rethink your position there, man .

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Interesting. For the sake of argument Drascin, if you weren't a Nintendo or Smash fan and you didn't know which console KH3 was coming out for, how far would having Sora in Brawl go towards convincing you to buy a Wii?

LukeFonFabre said:

That's not fair, I live in Europe! I don't want him anymore than you guys do!

Though the fact that they seem to be omitting America does still suggests something.

And Purlo was meant to represent Tingle? Would make sense, they are both money hungry and dress weirdly.

Edit: This was addressed to Numa Dude by the way, just so you don't think I'm going crasy.

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Well, with E3 coming up we'll definitely know one way or another whether Tingle DS is coming to North America.

Daisuke Sanrei said:

Hi there, this is my first post here, though I've been lurking around this thread. (I've read the whole thing once, and part of it TWICE.) After seeing all the logical, weel thoughtout disscussion, I've decided to join in. And what better way to start than by trying your 40 character challenge, Wiseguy.

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Welcome to Smash Boards Daisuke. I'm glad you've enjoyed my thread, and feel free to post here as often as you like.

Daisuke Sanrei said:

Well, here I go.

Mario Series

1) Mario - 'Nuff said.

2) Luigi - Mario Clone It would be nice to see some of his moves based on his more recent appearences.

3) Peach - Once agaain, it would be cool to a see a moveset based on her more recent starring roles.

4) Bowser - Not much to say.

5) Bowser Jr. - A speedier Bowser-type with a paintbrush based moveset would be a welcome addition to Brawl.

TLOZ Series

6) TP Link - Again, not much to say.

7) WW Link - TP Link Clone I don't care what anyone says, I think he's unique enough to deserve a spot. "Celda" my ***!

8) Zelda - Long live the sword-weilding, Shiekless Zelda!

9) Gannondorf - Please, Sakurai, stop taunting us and give hime the sword! (Side note: We seem to like seeing Zelda series chars. have swords, don't we?)

10) Midna w. Wolf Link - Orginally I just wanted Midna on her own, but after seeing the amazing moveset on this thread, I reconsidered.

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Cool. We are in complete agreement as far as these are concerned.

Daisuke Sanrei said:

Pokemon Series

11) Pikachu - Okay, I admit it, I've been a Pikachu main since SSB64, and I don't see that changing.

12) Jigglypuff - Stupid Purin.... Wish you'd go away...

13) Mewtwo - I honestly don't really see a need for him to go. He is villianous, and I feel he deserves one more chance.

14) Lucario - Seeing as he stared in a movie, and there are very few of them in the game, he seems like a good shot.

15) Dexoys - Eh, why not?

Metroid Series

16/17) Samus/ Zero Suit Samus - I hope they don't mess this up. Otherwise..... *Shudders*

18) Ridley - The Smash series needs more villians, and who better than a flying psace dragon?

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Asy ou know, I share a slightly different perspective as far as these series are concerned, but your prediction is perfectly reasonable and just as likely as my own (if not more so, given the lack of popularity of Metroid in Japn).

Daisuke Sanrei said:

Kirby Series

19) Kirby - Kirby, Kirby, Kirby, Kirby, Kirb. (Translation: He's a shoe in.)

20) Metaknight - I've always liked him, and we need more "mysterious" characters.

21) King Dedede - Kirby Clone Um... Ahh... DON'T HURT ME FANS! *Runs away*

Starfox Series

22) Fox McCloud - I don't care what anyone says Fox, I think your boots are stylish.

23) Krystal - A staff wielder would be an interesting addition.

24) Falco - We may disagree on this, but I think Falco would be bad*** with an original moveset.

25) Wolf - Fox Clone Once again, DON'T HURT ME FANS! *Runs*

Donkey Kong Series

26) Donkey Kong - Promise us one thing, Sakurai: You'll remove the DK Rap.

27) Diddy Kong - He's been in the shadows for too long a time. Its Diddy's turn to shine.

28) King K. Rool - Bowser Clone I'd prefer his pirate form, but eh, whatever.

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We seem to be on the same page, for the most part. Although I think 3 Star Fox characters is about all we can expect, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Falco return.

Daisuke Sanrei said:

Fire Emblem Series

29) Marth

30) Ike

31) Lyn

I know we're going to disagree on this, so let me present my view. Instead of only using chars. from the games that have been released worldwide, I think a different compromise should be reached. Marth represents both the character who is Japan only, as well as the older part of the FE series. Lyn, the female rep., represents the games popular in the West, as well as the middle part of the series. And Ike represents the joining of the FE fandom, as well as the newer parts of FE histroy. I feel that's a fair arrangement. BTW, I like the Black Knight, I just think we need a better balance of heroes before we add a villian.

*Dodges Wiseguy's Anime argument* HA!

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Interesting. Achieving a balance between international and Japan-only seems like a fair compromise. As much as I would love top see BK appear, your prediction I could definitely live with - on the condition that they go with the GoD version of Ike so that he bears as little resemblance to Marth as possible.

Daisuke Sanrei said:

F-Zero Series

32) Captain Falcon - Um, Ryo Horikawa rocks, and does a much better Vegeta than the English Vegeta? FALCON ... PUNCH!

33) Samurai Goroh - Captain Falcon Clone Eyuup.

Earthbound/Mother Series

34) Ness - I actually had Earthbound (It came in the big box with the Player's Guide) so I knew who he was when he appeared in SSB64

35) Lucas - Ness Clone Once again, we disagree, but I believe in compromising between East and West. Plus Smash got FE released, maybe it will work for Mother 3.

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I'm sure you are aware of my stance on japanese only characters, but I could live with Lucas appearing if that's what the Earthbound crowd wants.

Daisuke Sanrei said:

Other Series

36) Yoshi - YOSHI!

37) Wario - I've always liked the Wario games. At least he isn't invincible like he was in some of his earlier adventures.

38) Pit - You've finally returned.

39) Tom Nook - Everyone knows he is Nintendo's ULTIMATE villian.

40) Captian Olimar - Orginally I knew next to nothing about Pikmin, and was against his conclusion. But after coming here, that all changed. And thus a puppy was born.

41) Mach Rider - After reading this thread, I decided there needs to be at least one vehicle based fighter in Smash, and MAch seems the best for the job.

42) Ray - Samus Clone Now, this is going to likely throw a lot of you, so let me explain. Samus's main attacks are gun, rockets, and bombs. The Custom Robo's three types of attack are: Guns, missles, and bombs. Thus, modify the moveset a bit, remove any morph ball, and change the up-b from from the Screw Attack to jets. There you have it, and workable, and yet unique, clone.

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You've got all the essentials, Machrider on a his cycle would be nothing but unique and I actually can picture Ray as a Samus clone (though my experience with the series is pretty limited). I'm also glad you can around about Olimar (though I'm sure the puppy is even more gratful ).

Daisuke Sanrei said:

Third Party

43) Snake - It takes a real man to wear a mullet.

44) Sonic - Three blue anthros in one game. Hmm.... What?

45) Geno - I have fond memories of beating SMRPG together with my babysitter back in the day.

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Perfectly reasonable. I should really consider scaling back my third party redictions as well...

Daisuke Sanrei said:

So there is my list. So with original characters counting a 1, and clones counting as 1/3, heres the numbers:

Originals - Mario, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr., TP Link, Zelda, Gannondorf, Midna w. Wolf Link, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Lucario, Deoxys, Samus/Zamus, Ridley, Kirby, Metaknight, Fox, Krystal, Falco, DK, Diddy, Marth, Ike, Lyn, Captain Falcon, Ness, Yoshi, Wario, Pit, Tom Nook, Captain Olimar, Mach Rider, Snake, Sonic, Geno - (37)

Clones- Luigi, WW Link, King Dedede, Wolf, King K. Rool, Samurai Goroh, Lucas, Ray - (2 2/3)

Total- 39 2/3 Characters

I have a challenge for you Wiseguy: Who would you add as a last clone, WITHOUT cloning someone twice (such as two Samus clones)?

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Well, it it wasn't for your one rule I would definitely go for Dark Samus or Paper Mario, but since You don't want more than one clone of the same person, I have three ideas.

1) Black Knight!- Four FE reps might be a bit much, but come on! BK is about as awesome as they come.

2) Louie- It's pretty unlikely that we'll see more than one Pikmin character this time around, but judging by the two FE characters in Melee it's not impossible.

3) Clone Marth and add Mii- this is kind of a stretch, since the two swordmen do have pretty different fighting techniques - but stranger things have happened. Besides, Mii would make a great addition.

Daisuke Sanrei said:

Before I go, here is my top five runner up:

1) Vaati - I like a short villian.

2) Simon Belmont - Konami's already on board, so it's a good chance.

3) Soren - We need more magic users, and another FE char. would be alright in my book.

4) Megaman - I like the Blue Bomber, but I like Ray better, and Ray is 1st/2nd party.

5) Skull Kid- And fanciful design, and MM always gets the shaft.

Well, that's it from me. Good thread, Wiseguy, and great thoughts everybody.

Sanrei out.

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Thanks for sharing Daisuke Sanrei. I may disagree on some minor points, but on the whole your list is very reasonable and something I think just about everyone could live with. You've also provided solid reasons and witty remakes which is always a bonus. 9.8/10

Edit: I missed Mendez and Yoster. I'll fix that in a jiff...

'Worldwide appeal' would suggest that he's looking at general popularity around the world, not just popularity in Japan and if they happen to be recognizable elsewhere. Still, we don't know how far Sakurai is looking into what's hot and what's not outside Japan, though there seems to be at least be some awareness of Tingle's poor reception in the west. I still think his lack of any presence on the poll is unusual seeing as he's so popular n Japan, yet Link's uncle got more attention =\

Though now looking at it, there is a creepy resemblance between Tingle and Purlo. Looks like they thought Tingle would just look out of place in his normal form rather than any issues with his popularity.

Chief Mendez said:

I have to leave in a few minutes, and I'll be gone for the next five hours. I know you all will miss me to the point of tearing your own heart out, but just bear with it; it's only five hours. If you'reseriously having trouble, just try crying into a pillow for a while, that always helps me whenever I leave myself.

Click to expand...

Five whole hours?!? I'm not sure if we can bear it...

We'll leave candle in the window for you Mendez.

Chief Mendez said:

I think that came out wrong. I liked BW (not as good as AW), partly in part(?) because of the characters. As dumb as they were, they were mildly funny. More personality than some of the AW COs, in any case.

However, the gameplay sort of spoiled it for me. I got really tangled up partway through the game trying to select and direct the proper units while simultaneously trying to pick out the right targets for whatever unit I was controlling...the game would have really benefited from a co-op mode (and that snazzy WaveBird-keyboard hybrid thingy).

Click to expand...

It's certainly not as simple as it could have been to command your troops, but given how poorly RTS games have been done on consoles before I found the gameplay to be very refeshing. It's biggest flaw was the lack of any multiplayer.

Fortunately, Battaleon Wars 2 comes out this September - with online multiplayer and controls designed from the ground up for the Wii.

Chief Mendez said:

Okay.

You may want to sit down for this one.

...

Are you sitting comfortably? Good.

...

Sure you're ready?

Spoiler

Samus Aran is, in fact female. A girl. A woman. SHE HAS BOOBIES.

Click to expand...

Silly Mendez. Samus doesn't... waaaaiiit... come to think of it...

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2006/151/928518_20050601_screen004.jpg[img]

[quote="Chief Mendez, post: 2475067"]
I'm...pretty sure Angelo's in there too. Yangus maybe, but I'm not 100% on that one.[/QUOTE]

Right you are, my bad. Here's the complete roster for the record...

[quote="Wikipedia, post: 2475067"]
Itadaki Street DS characters

Dragon Quest:

Slime
Jessica
Dragonlord
Pudding
Bianca
Kukule ("Angelo" outside of Japan)
Yangus
Alena
Cristo
Hassan

Super Mario:

Mario
Luigi
Princess Peach
Kinopio ("Toad" outside of Japan)
Yoshi
Princess Daisy
Donkey Kong
Wario
Waluigi
Koopa ("Bowser" outside of Japan)
Catherine ("Birdo" outside of Japan)[/QUOTE]

No Trode... this game is dead to me. :mad:

[quote="Chief Mendez, post: 2475067"]
Well, maybe it doesn't matter too much, but dealing with two companies is always tougher than working with one. [/QUOTE]

True enough.

[quote="Chief Mendez, post: 2475067"]
I was the same way, and recently my Gamestop had a GCN clearout sale, and Red Hot Rumble was there, so I picked it up for 5$ (along with Cubivore, Geist and Future Tactics)....and yeah, it pretty much stinks. Instead of focusing on combat, they force you to complete a series of asinine minigames in each stage. What a load.[/QUOTE]

Yuck. Incidentily, how is Geist? I was intrigued until Nintendo Power gave it a 5/10 - which is never a good sign (they gave Shadow the Hedghog an 8/10, though to be fair their reviews have improved lately...)

[quote="Chief Mendez, post: 2475067"]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/Seanpuppy/de958adf_Gunstar_Superheroes_art.jpg

From right to left: Gunstar Red, Gunstar Blue, and...uh, I think it's just 'Yellow'. Fun game, but notas goodas the Genesis original (it's on the VC! Go download it NOW!)[/QUOTE]

I keep meaning to download it. I hear it's really something. So many games, so little time (and money...)

Chief Mendez said:

All you have to do is snap off those little "arms" in the dust sheild, right? I never got around to doing it, but it seems much simpler than what it takes in a GCN or PS2. Also, Sin & Punishment needs to be released on the VC. Treasure's said they made the game "with North American gamers in mind", and...and...and it's just so awesome!

Click to expand...

Everywhere I go, people sing Sin & Punishment' praises, yet I know next to nothing about it. Maybe someone here can tell me what the big deal is.

Chief Mendez said:

What Drascin said. I've never owned a PS2 in my life, but I still managed to play both KH titles, and as a result, the 2nd one's one of my top 5 favorite PS2 games. I'm sure I'll still get to play the 3rd one eventually (assuming people start buying more PS3s...I onlyknow of one guy who has one, and that's only because he's obscenely rich). Believe it or not, most people aren't willing to slap down more than half-a-grand to play one game.

Click to expand...

Yeah. Apparently, most people would rather buy a game system than a $600 blue ray player to go with the $3000 HD tv they don't have. Go figure...

Chief Mendez said:

And that's that.

I'd like to now take a moment to thank all of you for having such great grammar and spelling skillz. I'm not sure what it is about this thread that repels illiterates, but whatever it is, I'm thankful for it's presence.

EDIT- Look up a post. See what I mean? The only people we get in this thread are people who can think and type at the same time. It's just wonderful.

Click to expand...

It's pretty obvious. Having so many great minds in one place repels idiocy.

YosterDragon said:

I second this. It's refreshing to see full sentences with *gasp* correct spellings and punctuation!

Click to expand...

write u aare YG i shir hat whan piple don't usse pruble speeling!!!!!1

(Joking.)

Devastlian said:

Ya, they should represent unpopular games that are awesome so people'll buy them and/or encourage them to localize them. *nods*.

Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. Also, congrats on becoming a Smash Lord.

Devastlian said:

But...it wasn't a failure. They made two episodes because that's all they planned..

Click to expand...

Maybe I misunderstood, I thought that the show was cancelled after two episodes. At the very least one would have expected it to have been picked up for an entire season if it was well recieved...

Devastlian said:

The Mario element could encourage them to release it here...Maybe.

Also, the game has (as mentioned in someon else's post) Jessica, Angelo, and Yangus (the kid Yangus from the Japanese only Dragon Quest Yangus which is a dungeon crawler). Also of note is that the game has a song from Super Mario RPG. .

Click to expand...

Maybe, but given that DQ isn't quite as well known, I somehow doubt it.

Yangus starred in his own Japanese only game?! Will the injustices never cease!

Devastlian said:

Not really...The main thing it would do would be that, being a Disney character, Sora could get in alongside a Square-Enix character which, being a KH fan alongside a SE fan, would be rather cool..

Click to expand...

Yeah, putting someone like Geno alongside Sora would balance out the equation nicely.

Devastlian said:

Eh...I think this depends on if worldwide appeal means "popular in every country it's been released in" or "popular in Japan and having appeared in a game released outside of Japan."

Also, I believe Mr. Aonuma said that Purlo was made with the idea of making a lifelike Tingle.

Click to expand...

LukeFonFabre said:

'Worldwide appeal' would suggest that he's looking at general popularity around the world, not just popularity in Japan and if they happen to be recognizable elsewhere. Still, we don't know how far Sakurai is looking into what's hot and what's not outside Japan, though there seems to be at least be some awareness of Tingle's poor reception in the west. I still think his lack of any presence on the poll is unusual seeing as he's so popular n Japan, yet Link's uncle got more attention =\

Though now looking at it, there is a creepy resemblance between Tingle and Purlo. Looks like they thought Tingle would just look out of place in his normal form rather than any issues with his popularity.

Click to expand...

Proof of Tingle's poor worldwide appeal: the cancellation of the game Shadow of the Tingle

http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2006/12/Tingle_Fanart_by_torokun.jpg

Wiseguy said:

Everywhere I go, people sing Sin & Punishment' praises, yet I know next to nothing about it. Maybe someone here can tell me what the big deal is.

Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_%26_Punishment



Long story short, it's a fun on-rails shooter that really pushed the limits of the N64's hardware. For whatever reason, it is fully dubbed in English, complete with subtitles and menus, but it was never ported to the US. Plus, your main weapon is a blaster/lightsaber combination weapon...it gets no cooler than that!

One of my favorite stages from the game is when you rescue a little girl by the name of Achi. She has psychic powers, and to save you from a pending onslaught of baddies, she mentally rips up part of an aircraft carrier deck with you and her on it and proceeds to fly it around while you shoot up the rest of the armada. Very cool stuff.

Sadly, I don't remember too much of the plot, but seriously...how often does plot matter in a Treasure shooter? You'll shoot things, slash them with your lightsaber bayonette, and enjoy it thoroughly

Also, I think US gamers really wanted it to help break Nintendo's image of being the "kiddie" gaming company. You know, having more "mature" titles and all that jazz. S&P would've fit the bill, but I guess Nintendo didn't think it was worth the localization effort.

i read up to the guy with one post, (welcome to smashboards), and i have a major argument. I am completely against the idea of clones. why have a clone when you can have a unique moveset? the only reason clones were in the last game was because they were last minute additions. if we put clones in brawl, it would be like not fighting a bad habit. why have Ray a samus clone if you could have an original moveset? Sakurai has plenty of time, and i don't believe he would do clones again. second of all, i am against the idea of two of the same characters in the same game. thats why i hated doc and yl. ww link would not be a good yl replacement. no one would be, because he shouldn't be replaced. doc should be put in as a costume. and i have said it many times before, we should keep shiek. being outdated is not a reason to be taken out. and you may think "but you said don't have to of the same person" well sheik is zelda, but they are one character. the aren't split. i don't see how gorah would be a falcon clone, or how k rool would be a bowser clone. bowser and k rool are different species! and gorah has a sword!. why have him a falcon clone when he could own with a samurai sword! and i don't even need to go into dedede and wolf being fox and kirby clones. dedede can't copy powers. doesn't work for oversized penguins, that already own with hammers. and on the subject of clones don't give me "well, none of us want clones, but it is likley and we are making realistic assumptions" because i don't think sakurai would pull clones on us again, and he has much more time to make the game, and already has melee's engine to work with, so he has half as much to do in that sense.
sorry if i sounded like a jerk but i had to get my opinoin out.

-ends rant

P.S. down with the clones!

Devastlian said:

Thanks. I...hadn't even noticed. ^^;;;;

Also, I wanna play this Sin & Punishment game now. :/ :\

Click to expand...

Man, I've gotta stop posting; I'm getting people interested in too many underappreciated games...wait, that's not a bad thing! But seriously, I'd definitely recommend S&P, but be ready to shell out $50+ dollars for it. Seems it's a bit hard to come by, not surprisingly.

Devastlian said:

But...it wasn't a failure. They made two episodes because that's all they planned.

Click to expand...

Not true, friend. The show was, for some reason, not advertised (like, at all), and it basically flopped, so they cancelled it. The show has no proper ending.

YosterDragon said:

For whatever reason, it is fully dubbed in English, complete with subtitles and menus, but it was never ported to the US.

Click to expand...

It came out near the end of the N64s life-cycle, and that stingy Yamauchi was still president (of Nintendo) then, so it was probably a combination of bad timing, not enough incentive, and Ninty still in the "censor everything, don't cooperate with 3rd parties" era.

Wiseguy said:

We'll leave candle in the window for you Mendez.

Click to expand...

Like it would've helped. Freakin' punks makin' me close up so late...

Wiseguy said:

Yuck. Incidentily, how is Geist? I was intrigued until Nintendo Power gave it a 5/10 - which is never a good sign (they gave Shadow the Hedghog an 8/10, though to be fair their reviews have improved lately...)

Click to expand...

If you can find Geist, pick it up. It's not as bad as some people would have you believe, although it's not the best game ever, either. It very much a puzzle/mystery game as opposed to the FPS people were expecting. Sort of reminds me of Prime in that it's basically an adventure game with some shooting elements mixed in.

Wiseguy said:

Yangus starred in his own Japanese only game?! Will the injustices never cease!

Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Quest_Yangus

I remember reading about this in an old GameInformer/EGM. If you've heard of the Mystery Dungeon games (there was a Pokemon version for DS/GBA), then you know what to expect. Personally...I can't stand the games.

Wiseguy said:

Proof of Tingle's poor worldwide appeal: the cancellation of the game Shadow of the Tingle

Click to expand...

The game would never work: there are only four "Tingles" to fight. A slight problem that was forgotten until halfway through development. The project was scrapped, and was swept under the rug...but I guess someone must've leaked some of the concept art.

YosterDragon said:

...but be ready to shell out $50+ dollars for it. Seems it's a bit hard to come by, not surprisingly.

Click to expand...

Unless...you know...you felt like...you know...maybe...I dunno'...illegally downloading a ROM...or something.

^^^
You're not missing much. Personally, I think it was cancelled just because the show was bad. Instead of trying to emulate the source material, it basically tried to rip off the original Record of Lodoss War anime...and failed.

Plus those English dubs are pretty bad.

Are we talking One Piece dub bad here? Though to be fair half of the problem of that dub is how much they edited it (guns=>water pistols, not to mention all the missed out episodes).

I, for one, like the One Piece dub. With the exception of Sanji's VA, I like it. They consistently use great puns (better than the Japanese version!), all the jokes made it through okay, and Ussop just sounds...Ussop-y.

Obviously, I'm not down with them chopping out all the blood and language...but I can overlook that for what I get.

Anyway, the English dub of Fire Emblem is bad in the way that every most anime dubbed during the 90s was bad. In other words, the VAs have no clue what they're working on, and the ADR guy probably wasn't counting his "mouth-flaps" correctly. And again, "Marth"=/="Mars".

Like I said, half the problem was more how much they edited it (they're supposedly on like the 140 episodes, yet have cut it down to 100 =\). Most of the voices are tolerable, though I felt there were some pretty bad ones (Sanji of course, though Bon Clay wasn't spectacular IMO). Can't say I've seen much of the Japanese version, but I found it hard to take some of the more dramatic scenes when someones pointing a cork gun at someones head. That and the 'desert toilet' was a bit cringe worthy >.<

Supposedly Funimation are taking up the dub, so we'll see how they deal with it.

Doesn't sound like the Fire Emblem dub is worth approaching then (though it sounds like it generally isn't worth it in either language). Seems like little effort was put into it at all.

YosterDragon said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_%26_Punishment

Long story short, it's a fun on-rails shooter that really pushed the limits of the N64's hardware. For whatever reason, it is fully dubbed in English, complete with subtitles and menus, but it was never ported to the US. Plus, your main weapon is a blaster/lightsaber combination weapon...it gets no cooler than that!

One of my favorite stages from the game is when you rescue a little girl by the name of Achi. She has psychic powers, and to save you from a pending onslaught of baddies, she mentally rips up part of an aircraft carrier deck with you and her on it and proceeds to fly it around while you shoot up the rest of the armada. Very cool stuff.

Sadly, I don't remember too much of the plot, but seriously...how often does plot matter in a Treasure shooter? You'll shoot things, slash them with your lightsaber bayonette, and enjoy it thoroughly

Also, I think US gamers really wanted it to help break Nintendo's image of being the "kiddie" gaming company. You know, having more "mature" titles and all that jazz. S&P would've fit the bill, but I guess Nintendo didn't think it was worth the localization effort.

Click to expand...

I know why Nintendo never localized this game: they thought it was too awesome for our feeble western minds to comprehend. Seriously, this game looks amazing, and since it is already translated there would not cost in slapping this sucker on Virtual Console. It's free money Nintendo. Don't pass it up.

samusrules93 said:

i read up to the guy with one post, (welcome to smashboards), and i have a major argument.

Click to expand...

I can feel a quote war coming on...

samusrules93 said:

I am completely against the idea of clones. why have a clone when you can have a unique moveset?

Click to expand...

It's a question of having either A clone or a unique character. Clones require less time to program than unique characters, so you are actually getting a number of clones (let's say 3) for every original character sacrificed - so cloning alows for far more characters to appear in the game than could otherwise be included.

samusrules93 said:

the only reason clones were in the last game was because they were last minute additions.

Click to expand...

Sort of. Clones were added because the team was running out of time and wanted to include as many characters as possible before they completed the game. The same will likely happen for brawl.

samusrules93 said:

if we put clones in brawl, it would be like not fighting a bad habit.

Click to expand...

No, it would be like - err.... putting clones in Brawl to increase the total number of characters. (I can't think of a better metaphor this early in the morning.)

samusrules93 said:

why have Ray a samus clone if you could have an original moveset?

Click to expand...

Once again, it's not a question of either including the character as a clone or giving them an original moveset. It's a question of cloning them and (let's say) two other characters or including one original character. Ande given the relative obscurity of Ray comapred to other Nintendo published characters, it's probably a clone or nothing.

samusrules93 said:

Sakurai has plenty of time, and i don't believe he would do clones again.

Click to expand...

No matter how long Sakurai has to develop this game, he can always include more characters within that time if he includes clones. If past trends continue, he will once again choose to include clones.

samusrules93 said:

second of all, i am against the idea of two of the same characters in the same game. thats why i hated doc and yl. ww link would not be a good yl replacement. no one would be, because he shouldn't be replaced. doc should be put in as a costume.

Click to expand...

You might personally hate Doc and Young Link, but in my experience they are two of the more popular non-high tier characters in the game.

Also, if you hate Young Link, why are you against the idea of WW Young Link replacing him?

Doc is as close to a carbon copy of Mario as you can get, so if they program his appearance they will already have done most of the work that it took to include him in Melee. That being the case, why wouldn't they just give him his pills and a spot on the roster?

samusrules93 said:

and i have said it many times before, we should keep shiek. being outdated is not a reason to be taken out. and you may think "but you said don't have to of the same person" well sheik is zelda, but they are one character. the aren't split.

Click to expand...

Sheik is the same person as the Zelda in Oracarina of Time, which is a different individual entirely from the Zelda in Twilight Princess. Having TP Zelda transform into Sheik makes about as much sense as having princess Peach transform into Sheik (i.e: none).

samusrules93 said:

i don't see how gorah would be a falcon clone, or how k rool would be a bowser clone. bowser and k rool are different species! and gorah has a sword!. why have him a falcon clone when he could own with a samurai sword! and i don't even need to go into dedede and wolf being fox and kirby clones. dedede can't copy powers. doesn't work for oversized penguins, that already own with hammers.

Click to expand...

Bottom line: everyone of these characters could be given a unique moveset - but they could also be included as clones, just Sakurai chose to include Ganondorf as a Falcon clone rather than not at all.

At the end of the day, I would rather have Dx3, K. Rool and Goroh all included as clones than have only one of them (probably Dx3) with a unique moveset.

samusrules93 said:

and on the subject of clones don't give me "well, none of us want clones, but it is likley and we are making realistic assumptions" because i don't think sakurai would pull clones on us again, and he has much more time to make the game, and already has melee's engine to work with, so he has half as much to do in that sense.
sorry if i sounded like a jerk but i had to get my opinoin out.

-ends rant

Click to expand...

You may not want clones in Brawl, but I do. I want as many characters to choose from as possible.

True, using Melee's engine is a great time saver. So hopefully we'll see even more original movesets AND clones when Brawl is released.

samusrules93 said:

P.S. down with the clones!

Click to expand...

HOORAY FOR CLONES!!!

Join me in my cloney ways, Samusrules93 and together we can rule the galaxy! (Of course, when I say "we" I mean me. You can have one of Pluto's moons.)

Devastlian said:

Thanks. I...hadn't even noticed. ^^;;;;

Also, I wanna play this Sin & Punishment game now. :/ :\

Click to expand...

Not even noticed?!? When I reach 1000 posts, I'll brag so much everyone will be like: "Wiseguy, shut up already. It's not that big of a deal. It's been done before." To which I'll replay: "That's LORD Wiseguy to you, knave!"

YosterDragon said:

Man, I've gotta stop posting; I'm getting people interested in too many underappreciated games...wait, that's not a bad thing! But seriously, I'd definitely recommend S&P, but be ready to shell out $50+ dollars for it. Seems it's a bit hard to come by, not surprisingly.

Click to expand...

You've given me an idea for my next challenge:

Eveyone list their top 5 most underappreciated games. You can list one's we've discussed already, but it would be nice to hear about some new overlooked gems. For those who want to go the extra mile, also list the top underappreciated you haven'y played, but would like to.

My Top 5 Underappreciated games:

1) Elite beat Agents- You knew it was coming...

2) I-Ninja- My favorite platformer! I can't understand why everyone doesn't love it...

3) Baten Kaitos: EW&TLLO- Easily one of the most inventive RPGs around.

4) Shadow of the Collosus- Some of the best boss battles in any game to date.

5) Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction- How come noone ever talks about this one? It's the senseless violence in it's purest form. What's not to love?

Games I want to play:

1) Okami

2) Rocket Slime

3) Sin & Punishment

4) Gunstar Heroes

5) Elebits

Chief Mendez said:

Not true, friend. The show was, for some reason, not advertised (like, at all), and it basically flopped, so they cancelled it. The show has no proper ending.

Click to expand...

Forgive me if I take glee in this news. Last month, I had an epic quote war with GenG on the Fire Emblem discussion thread, and this anime was one of his arguments for why Marth was the "face of Fire Emblem". Now I can hardly wait for round 2...

Chief Mendez said:

Like it would've helped. Freakin' punks makin' me close up so late...

Click to expand...

I feel your pain. Lately, working until midnight at Wendy's has become part of my daily routine.

Chief Mendez said:

If you can find Geist, pick it up. It's not as bad as some people would have you believe, although it's not the best game ever, either. It very much a puzzle/mystery game as opposed to the FPS people were expecting. Sort of reminds me of Prime in that it's basically an adventure game with some shooting elements mixed in.

Click to expand...

I'm keep an eye open for it the next time I'm routing through the bargin bin...

Chief Mendez said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Quest_Yangus

I remember reading about this in an old GameInformer/EGM. If you've heard of the Mystery Dungeon games (there was a Pokemon version for DS/GBA), then you know what to expect. Personally...I can't stand the games.

Click to expand...

I'll try and ease the pain by telling myself that it sucked. But c'mon - it's Yangus, so it can't have been completely bad.

Chief Mendez said:

The game would never work: there are only four "Tingles" to fight. A slight problem that was forgotten until halfway through development. The project was scrapped, and was swept under the rug...but I guess someone must've leaked some of the concept art.

Click to expand...

Technically, there's only one Tingle. Ankle and Knuckel are his brothers while David Jr. is an ordinary guy who was marooned on Tingle's island and forced into slavery.


Left to Right: Tingle, Ankle, Knuckle, and David Jr.

I don't know which is more disturbing. The fact that I knew that, or the fact that I took the time to point it out.

@wiseguy
fine, it's a quote war you'll get, but i don't know how to multi quote so

"Also, if you hate Young Link, why are you against the idea of WW Young Link replacing him?"
because ww link is link as well. 1 link is all we need. no alternate versions, unless we have them as costumes. that i am not against.

"You may not want clones in Brawl, but I do. I want as many characters to choose from as possible."

yes, i want as many characters to choose from as possible, but who says they have to be clones? many of the characters you state to be clones are probably going to be included with an original moveset aleady, due to their popularity. less popular characters included last minute, yes, they might be clones. but not dedede, at the top of sakurai's list, or K rool, from the horribly under repped DK series.

BRB, i have to eat breakfast

Pokeball Predictions:

(I'll leave this category to the experts.)

pineappleupsetshark said:

Even though I love Pokemon, those are the best
Pokeball suggestions I've seen.
Lol, Waldo...

How about you field suggestions, and post 'em up?

Got a couple:
Regice-Icy Wind-Sends a blast of cold wind acros the stage. The wind blows for about ten
seconds, before abating.
Regirock-Ancientpower-Regirock shoots out a blast of glowing rocks.
Registeel-Metal Claw-Rapidly lunges forward, and slashes.
Regigigas-Comes out only after all three Regis have come out of Pokeballs within a
battle.
Jumps up and down, squashing fighters under its feet.
Kyogre-Freezing?-Kyogre sits on the stage, and is exceptionally cold, freezing everyone
who touches it.

Click to expand...

FrozenRoy said:

Some pokeball ideas.

Articuno - Sheer Cold - Articuno comes out, then flies above the screen, freezing the
arena. For a short amount of time, the entire field is covered in ice, reducing
traction ala-Icicle Mountain.

Togekiss - Air Slash - Togekiss comes out and begins making bombing runs at the stage,
brushing just above it, sending wind-slices foward(Think: Fury Cutter). Togekiss does
this three times.

Bagon - Headbutt - Like Hitmonlee from Smash 64.

Click to expand...

FrozenRoy said:

Even more pokeball ideas...

Luxray - Thunder Bite - Luxray locks on to one character and chases them down, not
dissappearing until he hits his foe, but not doing damage to others. When he hits, the
foe is paralyze for a small amount of time in addition to damage. If he runs off the
edge or the foe dies, Luxray dissappears.

Suicune - Surf - Suicune comes out and calls a MASSIVE wave of large(Think Squirtle's
waterfall, only WAAAY bigger) water. This only does a little damage and knockback, but
does not effect the player and has a "dragging" effect(Dragging characters with the
wave for a bit).

Seaking - Horn Drill - Seaking flops around like Goldeen, dealing a massive 30% damage
with low knockback.

Click to expand...

Ridley FTB!!! said:

Dragonite: Outrage:homes in onto a target and bashes them
about the screen(normally the person winning)

or
Draco Meteor:Meteors comes crashing down from the sky either dragonite will have this or
P/D legs will have this

Click to expand...

pineappleupsetshark said:

Moar Pokeball Predictions!
Wailord-Replaces Snorlax. Does the same thing, except completely unavoidable due to
being a massive whale.
Castform-Weather Change-Uses either Hail, Sunny Day, or Rain Dance randomly.
Hail does incremental 5% damage to every Brawler that isn't the one who released
Castform. Sunny Day raises everyone's attack power, and Rain Dance makes the ground
slippery, and disables all fire based attacks. Weather effects last 1 minute, or until
a Final Smash is performed, whichever happens first.
Piplup-Brine-Sea water engulfs the stage for a few seconds, causing major damage.
Chimchar-Flame Wheel-A wheel of fire flies around the stage, doing damage to any who
come in contact with it.
Turtwig-Leaf Storm-Sharp leaves fly everywhere, doing great damage.

Click to expand...

Numa Dude said:

I'll go ahead and post my pokemon suggestions.

Staraptor- close combat- chooses one random player and just beats the living $h!t out of
them.

Mesprit- Teleports next to a random player and kisses them on the cheek which
temporarily stuns them and for the rest of the match they will have an emotionless
face.

Luxray- Thunder fang- bites one random player and shocks them through his fangs leaving
them paralyzed for a few seconds after being hit.

Slaking- Yawn- Sits there and yawns in a sleepy way which puts every character on the
stage asleep including the one who called it.

Poliwrath- Body slam- Body slams an opponent doing some good damage and if you are
unlucky enough he will paralyze you.

I'll probably think of some more later.

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SubparSmashBrother said:

Pokeball Ideas:

Delibird -> Present: Delibird throws two presents, then flies away. Present can either
be consumable items which heal you(like eggs, 60%chance), consumable items which do
1-2% damage instead of healing (30% chance), or can be bombs that picked up and thrown
at opponents(10%). You won't know until you open them!

Misdreavus -> Pain Split: Misdreavus appears, glows, and then vanishes. All damage is
then added up,and devided equally between all players.

Palkia -> Spacial Rend: Palkia shreds a giant hole in the dimensions, then flies
away.(I'm talking big, since Palkia is a legendary and all) If a player falls into the
hole, they will disappear, then reappear in a random place on the stage. The hole
vanishes after a while, though.

Dialga -> Roar of Time: Dialga lets out a loud roar, and you get to watch time rewind,
as the match is reset to how it was 10 seconds ago. The actual time in time matches is
not affected.

Swellow -> Fly: Swellow flies out of it's Pokeball, then purches itself on any random
platform(or just on the ground). You can then jump out swellow's back and fly around
through the air. You can jump off with B, speed up with A, and you can control the the
general movement of Swellow with the control stick. Swellow flies off screen after 20
seconds, regardless of whether you're still on its back, so be careful!

Dodrio -> Tri-Attack: Dodrio takes one giant leap in the air before falling off stage.
(Think Hitmonlee or Scizor). If you get hit by its body or feet, you will recieve minor
damage. However, getting hit with one of its three beaks causes high damage and has a
20% of causing one of the following effects:

Freeze (Frozen in a block of ice)
Burn (Luigi's Up-B effect)
Paralyze (Permanent stun. No DI, no second jump, no third jump: nothing until you touch
the ground)

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