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Glubbfubb
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  • Man I have a massive issue and I don't know how to fix it, the plat-fighter I am working on in Godot is technically working, but every time I open it the game will just freeze, basically making it a static image, I know its frozen since I programmed a frame counter that counts every frame that passes in the game and that also freezes too. This is a massive issue I don't know how to fix and its really stressing me out since I don't wanna give up on this project, so does anyone have the knowledge of Godot to help me.
    Here is another moveset for another character I made, LAMBDA
    Gimmick:
    Nitro Dash
    LAMBDA is incapable of dashing normally, rather they use the jets on their backside to dash in set increments. You can cancel the dash early by dodging which not only ends the dash prematurely but also creates a small flame burst that deals weak damage and medium knockback, however, it also has notable end lag. This fact gives LAMBDA poor ground traction, which is compounded by their slow initial walk speed, in fact they have the slowest walk in the game. However with proper control over the Nitro Dash you can move in ways other characters can't allowing LAMBDA to become the only character with a built-in wavedash.

    Up Special
    Nitro Jet
    Another unconventional move, unlike most moves which can only be performed once before freefalling, Nitro Jet has a special fuel meter that allows LAMBDA to use the attack as many times as they want as long as they have the fuel. The Nitro Jet has small but noticeable end-lag when performed and is affected by LAMBDA's horizontal momentum, so if they are moving left the jets will be shoot upwards with a left arch. The underside of LAMBDA can damage other fighters when this attack is used, dealing small chip damage and is one of their best choices when breaking shields. Careful maneuvering is needed as with mastery this can become a potent recovery tool.

    Nuetral Special
    Pyronite Fist
    A powerful but slow attack, comparable to Ganondorf's Warlock Punch, however it has much more utility than that move. The move can be cancelled halfway through by performing a grab, meaning you can trick players expecting a Pyronite Fist with a sudden grab known as the Pyronite Grasp. As the go-to grappler of the game, this procedure lets LAMBDA perform serveral command grabs, most notably their Scorched Earth, performed by using the command for a Nitro Dash, this a powerful forward blast that leaves behind burning ground as a trap.

    Side Special
    Untested Prototype
    Their sole ranged attack, a flying metallic hunk of space junk that slowly hovers over the ground, it will explode when it either collides with a fighter or a projectile, allowing LAMBDA some keepaway tactics. When they use a Pyronite Fist into Untested Prototype, the projectile is launches as a fast fireball with impressive range.

    Down Special
    Hadron Collider
    A standard downward stomp, when done in the air they create an earthquake that trips anyone around them. When they can chain this after Pyronite Grasp to create Pyronite Asteroid, which has them launch them and their foe in the air and crash like a meteor, a powerful attack but one that also deals notable recoil damage to the user.

    Overmax Attacks
    Super Nitro Krasher
    Full Rotation + :GCB:
    LAMBDA's body radiates an orange glow, increasing their walk speed and gives them a normal dash. They also gain partial super-armor, meaning they can't be knocked out by weak attacks, though more powerful ones can knock them down. Finally Pyronite Fist and Untested Prototype become faster and stronger. This effect lasts for 6 seconds and is very it is very powerful when mastered.

    Pyronite Nova
    This attack is performed by using the same command as Pyronite Asteroid while pressing :GCU:, it is a more powerful and deadly Pyronite Asteroid, and it removes that move's recoil damage, making it a straight up upgrade to the move.

    Core Buster
    :GCDL::GCUR::GCDL::GCB:
    A powerful supernove, this attack deals massive damage and knockback, up to 200 damage, if used in point blank range, however this also deals either 200 damage to you as well. And by point blank range I mean this move has the same range as Rest point blank range. [, /SPOILER]

    How does this moveset look so far, I tried to make them the difficult to learn rewarding to master character, I am quite proud of it.
    Do you think despite Ganondorf being low tier in Ultimate, would you consider him "fun" to use, and would you mind if a character if low tier if they are still fun to use?
    osby
    osby
    He's not really along my faves but yeah, I think he's fun.

    A lot of my most-played characters are not very well regarded in competitive play which doesn't really affect my enjoyment of them. Zelda is always low-tier but I still love her playstyle.
    GolisoPower
    GolisoPower
    Not just Ganondorf, there are lots of characters in even other fighting games I love to play that are seen as competitively trash, yet despite that are the most fun you could have playing them.

    Like, when's the last time you got a dopamine rush landing a Zangief piledriver?
    Janx_uwu
    Janx_uwu
    Ganondorf's really fun because Ultimate really rewards hard reads and center stage control, especially if you play someone beefy like Ganondorf. So landing attacks with him just feels immaculate.
    Here are Aremi's base moveset so far, how does it look, quite proud ofit if I do say so myself. As a "mascot" character, what vibes do you get from this moveset so far?
    Neutral Special
    Arching Thunder
    An electrical projectile that moves in an arching zig-zag pattern. The arch of the zig-zag can be widened by pulling the :GCUR:, likewise, she can straighten the arc by pulling the :GCDR:.

    Up Special:
    Aremi's Shadow
    Aremi summons a shadowy clone of herself that quickly dashes upwards; she can aim and manipulate the shadow and wherever it ends up when it disperses will cause her to warp to the end location. This state occurs when the shadow either collides with solid ground, a ledge, or a ceiling.

    Down Special:
    Gravity Well
    Aremi spins around, manipulating the dark energy around herself to faintly control gravity. While the attack does weak damage, it is able to slow down Aremi's decent, pull items towards herself, and spin opponents around one side of her to her other side, meaning if she uses this while next to a fighting to her left side, they will instead be placed on her right side. When :GCR: or :GCL: is used shortly after this move, she can faintly twirl in one of those directions, giving her some horizontal recovery.

    Side Special:
    Soul Pyre
    Soul Pyre is an extremely short-range projectile shaped in the shape of a star. This seething hot flame damaged based off ticks, meaning it does multiple hits of weak damage and does extra damage to shields.

    Overmax Attacks:

    Doppleganger
    :GCR: :GCDR: :GCR: :GCB:
    Aremi summons an afterimage of herself directly in front of her and follows her around, with the initial summon pushing back any foes. This afterimage is good on offense and defense. It can block weak projeciles for Aremi, however it also copies all the attacks Aremi performs, so with some configuration you can use the doppleganger to form powerful jugles and chain grabs.

    Eye of the Reaper
    :GCU::GCUR::GCA::GCB:
    A large skull-shaped orb, can be manipulatedup or down diagonally with :GCUR: or :GCDR: respectively. After some time, the orb explodes into a spectral fire explosion.

    Wheel of Hades
    Full Circle + :GCB:
    Aremi creates a great wheel of flames around herself, think of this as a souped up Soul Pyre, an attack that does many ticks of weak damage that is great at breaking shields and armor, the wheel can also destroy projectiles and items placed by other characters.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Yes, there will be command inputs that improve certain moves, as well as completely original ones. Overmax Attacks can be chosen from the character select to ether be manual, meaning you have to input the command to use them, or automatic by just pressing :GCB: , however as trade-off when you do have an Overmax usable you are unable to use your Neutral Special in automatic mode until you use the Overmax, unlike manual mode where you can use your Neutral special alongside the Overmax Attack.

    One command move I have so far is Vlad's Bane and Devil Flare. Vlad's Bane is activated by :GCR::GCDR: Grab :GCA::GCA::GCB: and releases a mighty pillar of dark energy that launches the foe much more than a standard forward throw. Devil Flare meanwhile is activated by using the command for Ryu's Shakunetsu(←↙↘→+AorB)and launches a bubbled flame that crahses down into a flaming floor.
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    Oooh, looks fun! Sorry for the inquisition, btw - just wanna get to know your thought process. They sound like a lot of fun!
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Yeah, I imagine Aremi to be one of those fast but heavy characters, like Fox. She can run and jump fast but sinks like a rock and is quite squishy, fittingly for a witch-esc character, a bad combo when you have a character lacking major horizontal recovery. While her vertical recovery is excellent, the best she can have in horizontal recovery is using a command input for a small midair twirl to the left or right.
    I think for my arcade mode boss, I am going to have it be essentially a 1v1 fight between you and the "villain" of the game, said villain is very buffed, has more power and knockback than their playable counterpart, has the ability to use all three of their Overmax/Final Smash attacks instead of just one, and has super armor that can only be broken by fully charged Smash Attacks or your own Overmax/Final Smashes. I think a fight like that sounds pretty fun while not making it go over the edge into SNK Boss territory if you are good at dealing with the playable counterpart and are effective at using Smash Attacks/Overmax Attacks.
    Do you think due to Steve being quite hard to master compared to other fighters that he deserves to have massive reward when played well, or do you think he is still too strong despite that?
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    I see, personally my philosophy is that if a character has a very high skill ceiling, they are more justified in having a higher power cap, that just means your being rewarded with being skilled. That is why I love Melee Fox and Jigglypuff and they are quite technical as characters compared to the rest of the cast, but that is compensated by having a high potential power. That is also why I dislike Brawl Meta Knight , he has a low skill floor, meaning he is very easy to learn, and for such a low bar of entry you get so much reward from him.
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    See, I personally differ a little - my own philosophy is that while a character having a higher skill ceiling can justify a higher power cap, I feel like this would then kind of just force more mechanically complex characters to eventually become higher tier. After all, over time, their mechanics will be mastered and refined - and then you get, akin to Steve, a conceptually weak character with powerful mechanics, who gets labbed enough to the point that his (limited) powerful tools utterly decimate a lot of the roster.

    I personally think every character should feel high-tier, albeit in different ways - for instance, if you have a really simple character going up against a more complex character, the latter might need some more labbing to be able to work, but I don't think the "reward" should be that the latter is higher-tier - because otherwise, that kind of makes playing the simpler characters pointless, while making the game more inaccessible for newer players as a result.

    There obviously has to be balance - a skill floor that's too low results in an unfair top-tier like Brawl Meta Knight (like you mentioned) but I don't think that making complex characters objectively more powerful is (usually) a good way to balance things. Just my take though!
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Hmm your right, balance is complicated, like if a easy to learn fighter is just as good as a very technical fighter, then what is the point of using the more technical fighter if you can get the same reward at lower cost, but I do think making each character feel powerful is something to strive for. This dichotomy is best shown with Ultimate's Shiek and Ganondorf. while the former is MUCH better than the former tier wise, I see that she is generally unpopular of a choice by the general audience due to her low initial damage and perceived squishiness, making her not the most popular choice by casual players despite her solid tier placement, Ganondorf on the other hand is one of the worst charatcers in the game competitively but his sheer immediate power makes him a popular choice to causal players due to his kill potential. Shiek is a character with a high skill floor and a high skill ceiling, meaning she is hard to use but powerful when used well, while Ganondorf has a low skill floor and low skill ceiling, he is immediately powerful but his plethora of flaws keeps him from actually being viable.
    Are there any examples on the top of your head of a powerful tier-wise character in a fighting game who is very strong but very hard to control, sorta like a very hard character to master but very high reward?
    osby
    osby
    I have two:

    Vatista from Under Night In-Birth is commonly considered one of the best characters in the game but also one of the hardest. She has charge specials in all four directions, meaning there are times when you have to charge two moves at the same time during combos. She's slow and has no consistent way of close-range combat or traditional zoning. But once you get the hang of her moveset, you have a character who can control almost the entire screen and has extremely long and damaging combos.

    Akira Yuki from Virtua Fighter is another example. He can zero-to-death the entire cast in VF2 without any way of counter... however, the timing required for the inputs was so strict that literally no one was able to use his best combo. In later games, he's easier but still has only a few combo strings that naturally go beyond two hits and the longer ones were really hard to use. However, if you perfectly time his attacks together while also reading your opponent like a book, Akira can obliterate them.

    I believe the reason they are well-designed characters is that even when you master them, you still won't be automatically superior to every other character and have to work for victory like everyone else. (Unlike, say, Melee Fox, whose existence renders a sizeable portion of the roster obsolete.)
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    If that is the case, how should I give players the proper reward for mastering the controls of a difficult-to-use character without invalidating the cast?
    osby
    osby
    I'm not a game designer but as I said, maybe give them strong combos that are risky to start or limit some of their best options with a meter (that they don't have mediate access to).
    Kinda find it weird that despite Mega Man's custom moves in Smash 4 all referencing different weapons he could use across the series, the Pokemon reps just get variations of existing moves rather than using different moves they could learn. Charizard's Rock Smash could be replaced by a move like Brick Break or Bulldoze, while Lucario's Aura Sphere could be replaced by Focus Blast or Vacuum Wave. I feel like that was a missed opportunity cramming in more references.
    Okay, very VERY minor question, what is a better name for my main "mascot" character for my fighting game, Aremi or Aremni, yes the main difference is the addition of a single letter but I don't know if it makes the name better or worse, I am trying to make my main character's aesthetic be that of a cloaked practitioner of dark magic and necromancy, most of her attacks are shadow and lightning-based, and playstyle wise can be seen as a mix of Fox, Ganondorf, and Mewtwo, so I wonder which name would be better.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    I like that, she can also use a command input that allows her to quickly summon one of her shadows forward and and can cancel that attack midway to warp to the shadow's current location. The command is :GCCD::GCCDR::GCCR::GCB:, and by pressing :GCB: midway through the projectile's run, she can cancel it and warp to that shadow's location; however the downside is some notable end lag.
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    Random thought - given a lot of newer players would probably come in with the expectation for a Ryu-styled moveset (not a necessity, but probably what they're expecting) - I feel like a QCF input should be more offensive (ie, some kind of projectile or powerful special). I'd personally maybe suggest this being a QCB might make more sense - it's less attack-focused, more movement-focused.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    That could work, though in technicality the move by itself is offensive, but you also have the ability to convert it into a mobility maneuver as well, so its a bit of both
    What is everyone's opinion on Ness/Lucas' PK Thunder, like do you like it as both a move and recovery, and do you think a move like that would work well on my "mascot" character
    Would you say 14 fighters would be a good enough starting roster for an indie plat-fighter game? That is the amount I am aiming for, not too big or small.
    Here is an interesting question, what do you think is the WORST DESIGNED CHARACTER you have ever seen in a fighting game, they are not just bad but DISFUNCTIONALLY bad, and tell me why
    I think each character in my Platfighter can have one of 3 selectable Overmax Attacks, basically the Final Smash equivalents, instead of Smash Balls you can use Overmax Attacks by filling up a meter, sorta like a normal Hyper Attack you see in a typical fighting game. Aside from picking on which Overmax Attack you want to use out of 3, you also have the option of performing it manually or automatically; manually means you have to use a combo input to use the attack, while automatically means you just need to press the Special button to activate this. The choice is less one-sided as once you have your Overmax Attack ready in automatic mode, you are locked out of your Neutral Special until you use it, which can lock some characters out of potential combos, especially if said Neutral Special can be a good lead into the Overmax Attack you chose. Each Overmax Attack also takes a certain amount of meter energy to be usable, some taking more meter than others. Overmax Attacks are not solely offensive moves, you can also have defensive Overmax Attacks such as ones that temporarily give you super armor, ones that heal you a specific amount, and ones that improve your mobility. How does that sound so far?
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Selected before you start, sorta like Street Fighter Alpha/4/Etc, you have 3 different Overmax Attacks you can choose from, but only one of those can be used as your actual attack in battle
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    This kinda reminds me of how SFIII handles this actually, it looks hella interesting - though, one thing to note is that you'd need to ensure all of your Overmaxes are, like, balanced. Otherwise you end up with Remy's Blue Nocturne Super Art which - on the one hand, conceptually makes some sense (as a defensive super for a defensive character), but on the other hand, sucks ass (being a counter move, so like, nobody's going to hit you, then your meter drains, and you're back at square one.)

    With that in mind, while defensive Overmaxes could totally work, it's essential to make sure they work well.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    The two defensive Overmax attacks I have in mind so far were going to have one fighter gain an afterimage in front of herself, like Zero's afterimages in Mega Man X5 to those who played the game, not only can it absorb projectiles but it also copies your exact movements, and attacks, and so with some maneuvering, you can use this move to juggle combos onto opponents. The other defensive Overmax attack is for my "final boss" character, normally when you fight them as a boss they have super armor and act as an SNK boss, but with this Overmax attack you can become that SNK boss, and gain super armor, but only for like 6-7 seconds, since this character is a slow bulky grappler, this move allows them to go and close the distance more easily.
    What makes a good twist villain in your eyes, like I have three types of villains in my story, the villain behind the villain, a villain who is actually heroic, and a heroic looking person who is actually a giant vile piece of work and Jack Horner levels evil, these are the main antagonists for my platfighter game
    osby
    osby
    I don't know if it's necessarily the best way to do but I like it when twists villains are characters you don't want to be villains. Whether it's because they're likable, strong, or charismatic, I think it makes a very effective twist when a character that the audience wants to believe is heroic turns out to be an antagonist. I feel like those types of villains work even when you see the betrayal coming because you try to convince yourself that they can't be bad.
    CapitaineCrash
    CapitaineCrash
    Disney/Pixar have a lot of twists vilains and I would say they're really hit or miss, but one that really stuck with me is the one from Coco. Movie spoiler Ernesto de la Cruz is pretty much what Osby is describing, he's a character that you want to believe is likeable, but the more the movie goes the more you truly realise that he actually have no redeeming factor and the viewer start to really hate the character like the protagonist would.
    • Like
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    fogbadge
    fogbadge
    didn't you work it out?
    In my Platfighter, I'm considering making my Arcade/Adventure to work sorta like Smash Run, defeat enemies to gain xp to make your attacks stronger and try and be strong enough to fight event bosses, there is a typical Classic mode too but the main "story" mode of the game is more like Smash Run
    I thought of this opening naration for my Platfighter, how does it look:

    The year is 278X, the age of interstellar exploration and civilization. An era where many alien species mingle together in relative harmony and peace. However that peace became broken when what was supposed to be the maiden voyage of the most ambitious ship of all time, the Double Sigma, manned by twin Android AIs LAMBDA and EPSILON, was lost with no sign of its location. While in the moment people morned this great tragedy, it eventually became just another ship lost to time.

    Now the year is 287X, and a crack in the universe caused the Double Sigma to return to space, however one of the androids, EPSILON is now threatening a galactic wide war alongside strange creatures of the void. As a result of this crisis the governments of the universe decide to send out their best soilders to raid the ship. News of this crisis has also spread to bounty hunters and other strange individuals, who decide to enter this ship to get the riches within. With LAMBDA here to assist these unlikely heroes, who will take down EPSILON.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    So how does this opening sound, does this work for a platfighter
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    I think it sounds interesting! One thing I'd probably suggest is maybe having two X's in the years (akin to the Mega Man series)? That way it's a little more readable at a glance - ie, 27XX & 28XX. I also really like the use of Greek letters for names - it's a trope I'm a big fan of, honestly. I will say - given this is set in an interstellar setting, do be careful not to have all of your stages just be "grey spaceship interior" or "space background"! There's plenty of potential for ways to handle different planets and the like, even if you take the Star Wars approach of taking inspiration from real-world biomes.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    I was thinking the Double Sigma was designed as a seed vault of sorts, so when it returns parts of the ship have become overrun with strange foliage, kinda making it like the ship from Metroid Fusion, just without the alien parasites and more eldiritch abominations
    Tiering placements aside do you think Ryu, Terry, and Kazuya's movesets make a good fine line between traditional fighting game characters and plat-fighter characters, in other words, do their movesets do you think the devs do a good job converting traditional fighting game mechanics to a plat-fighter, to the extent you would play an entire game where EVERYONE had Ryu/Terry/Kazuya styled movesets
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    Personally, I wouldn't be into it if it was effectively pulled straight from them - but this is less because of the pure mechanics, more because of their limited mobility. They're a lot slower and have more rigid jumps than the rest of the cast, so they feel less... mobile. That said, I think the fighting game mechanics they bring (such as command inputs, light/heavy attacks, even facing an opponent by default) could work well if combined with the more fluid gameplay of the rest of the cast.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Yeah of course the physics will be more fluid, it's just how their movesets are set-up that I am curious about, not their physics and tiering placements
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    I think it could be interesting! Personally, if I were doing it - I'd probably go for a system more akin to, like, Match of the Millenium (remove the special button completely, have a punch and a kick button, tap/hold light/heavy system, command normals & command specials, Multiversus/Brawlhalla walljumps) but if it were based specifically on Smash's moveset system, I'd still find it pretty interesting.

    ...though the eight-way shield system from Combo Devils might make sense to add too?
    Do you think being the main character in a fighting game has to make said character very basic in terms of moveset?
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Yeah, my cast will comprise a combination of bounty hunters, killer androids, mutants, eldritch horrors, and magitek users, my main character is a magitek user and think of her as a combo of Robin due to having a mana bar mechanic, Ganondorf for using dark magic and being the inspiration for some of her physical attacks, and Fox for being both fast and heavy
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    Random thought on that actually: I know a lot of platfighters tend to do meters, but something I think would maybe make sense for more meters is to have a segmented one of some kind. It'd probably allow for a more obvious visual indicator of how much meter something uses (ie, one "bar" instead of "ech roughly a fifth"). Plus, if you were going for magitek... a battery icon could be a really fun UI element.



    Something like this - using magic-based attacks could maybe drain a "bar", the "bars" fill up over time and flash when a new one is full, you get the idea. I just feel like it'd be more user-friendly (and more fitting for the actual character!) to go for something like this as a meter lol (though maybe with more individual bars if some of their normals partially drain the battery!)
    D
    darkvortex
    Akira Virtua fighter is a weird case. You'd think he's be the basic starter character because he looks so much like Ryu, but he actually has a very complex moveset
    My OCD brain spent a bit analyzing Dan Hibiki's Gadouken (the small green fireballs he shoots) and I quite like the concept and think it can be used for a serious setting. A move of one of my characters is a chargeable energy ball that the longer they charge the farther it shoots out, however, the farther they shoot out the fewer ticks of damage the ball will give, so its best sometimes to not charge it and only shoot it barely in front of you to rack up more damage ticks. Does an attack like that make sense and could work ,like a platfighter?
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    An attack that immediately springs to mind as something similar (that might work as a sort of analogue to a "serious Gadouken") is Laura's Thunder Clap in Street Fighter V - a very slow-moving projectile with minimal range, intended to set up mix-ups and pressure while warding off projectiles from a ranged opponent.

    With that in mind, I think the idea of a short-range projectile with bigger damage up close does have uses - but it wouldn't be used like a traditional projectile (ie, Hadouken) to apply pressure long-range, rather, probably be focused on mid-range mixups. Though, having the projectile be charged might kind of limit that use case?

    Personally, though this is just me - I'd have it so that charging the projectile only increases the range, and that the damage decreases based on distance as opposed to how much it's charged (meaning an uncharged version would deal the same damage as a charged version, just with less range.)

    It gives it the best of both worlds in some ways - still has (limited) zoning potential and could be used like that, but works better for mid-range mixups, as well as providing a neat element of personality akin to Sakura or Sean's take on the shoto archetype (ie, "I can't do exactly what you do, but I'll add my own spin on it to make it my own thing")
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Yeah, I feel like that idea is the best execution for such a move.
    So exactly is a Pupper and Stance Fighter in a fighting game, those are the two archetypes I just don't get the most
    Wario Wario Wario
    Wario Wario Wario
    Puppet - fighter who has control of another, usually smaller and weaker fighter, who works in tandem. Think Rosalina.
    Stance fighter - transformation/character swap. Think Shulk/Pokemon Trainer/Melee Zelda
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    Additionally - being archetypes, it's possible for them to be played around with a little.

    Puppet fighters, for instance, can sometimes be characterised as characters with particularly controllable projectiles or spacing options (for instance, Venom's pre-programmed projectiles in Guilty Gear might count here) - or alternatively, a character might have a puppet tool, but as it's not the focus of their moveset, they're not seen as a "puppet fighter" (2B in SoulCalibur) - but as W3 said, they tend to be a smaller and weaker fighter of sorts who may have similar abilities to the user (Miss Fortune in Skullgirls). Gameplay-wise, they tend to rely on using their "puppet" at mid-to-long range to either keep their opponent spaced away from them by effectively extending their range (with their "main body" being comparably weak), or as a tool to force opponents to approach. (Or, if you're talking about HFTF or P4A, most of the cast have a puppet mechanic built-in due to their use of Stands and Personas respectively.)

    Alternately, while Stance fighters are typically balanced around their stance, there's also different ways of handling them. The Smash series mostly does so with character-swaps, but tradfighter stance characters tend to just take on a new fighting style with new properties and animations (Gen in Street Fighter). As a general rule, each stance will be fairly specialised in a given use, which should balance out the character as a whole. Though, it should be noted that some games have "stances" as a universal mechanic (Virtua Fighter 5), which is considered different - that'll differ from game to game, obviously.
    Question: if a Grappler-type fighter has a projectile attack, does that not make them a Grappler in your eyes, giving examples of Grappler-type fighters with projectile attacks from actual video games would be nice for examples sake
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    That'd honestly be a lot of fun - I think it'd need some fine-tuning to line up at a good balance spot, but it'd be interesting to play as. Plus, the hit-and-run and grappler archetypes do have that shared similarity of their gameplay (get in and get out) albeit with different approaches and goals, so it'd be neat to see that more.
    ZephyrZ
    ZephyrZ
    I'd love to see DK given his barrel throw, preferably as a new side special. If it moves slowly it could be effective for covering approaches but weak in terms of zoning.
    osby
    osby
    Well, not sure about the frail part but King of Fighters's Shermie is a fast grappler whose defense isn't the best... but she's considered one of the best characters in KOF XV for that. A quick character who benefits from your opponent's guards is a pretty strong combination.

    As for a grappler character who uses projectiles and status effects, Kanji from Persona 4 Arena comes to mind. He has fast and hard-hitting grabs, huge normal attacks, and skills that can immobilize his foes completely. These are balanced with him being quite slow and dependent on his Persona.
    What is the weirdest non-Shrek game to have a thriving competitive scene in your opinion
    Do you think it's antithetical to make a plat-fighter with characters whose movesets comprise of a traditional fighting game moveset, like think everyone on the roster is like Kazuya/Terry/Ryu
    Name a character who you hate but like their powerset/concept and wish they were given to a different character:

    D'vorah from Mortal Kombat, I like her insect powers and poison abilities, hate her role in the story, but I do wish she gets a more fleshed out and improved spiritual successor in MK1
    Man I wish Mario Kart 8 wasn't so expensive to get, I am itching for a good racing game to play online.
    Hot Take:
    Dry Dry Desert is an unironically good Mario Kart course, agree or disagree
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