Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

Wouldn't good old Bub be maybe a more workable idea for the puzzle character?
He's better known worldwide and he has a couple of platformer games to pull from to fill up his moveset too.

I don't know if "more workable" is the right sentiment since there's really no limitation to Arle's moveset opportunities either. Puyo Puyo is spun off of a dungeon crawler RPG series, and hence a lot of the characters still maintain a focus on magic and combat. I feel like its role as sort of a pvp battle puzzler makes it kind of a perfect fit for a fighting game.

I also don't especially think Bub is that much more recognizable than Arle nowadays. Puyo's visibility in the west has increased a bunch over the last decade, after the worldwide success of both Puyo Puyo Tetris games and the initiative to make the classic Puyo games playable for unfamiliar audiences via Sega AGES collection and NSO, for starters. For contrast, Bubble Bobble / Bust a Move had one new game in 2019 but has been a relatively dormant series otherwise. Obviously Puyo Puyo is still far more popular in Japan than overseas, but I don't think recognition is an obstacle after these recent efforts. Hell, the recent Apple Arcade title was developed internally from Sega of America.

Although I do think it's worth acknowledging that Bubble Bobble is something of a platform puzzler to begin with, so I can understand looking at that and feeling like he jives better with Smash by default. I would personally love to see him in the game, and with how starved we are for puzzle game content in the first place I think both would be justified - and I mean, they'd play nothing like one another. The dichotomy of Puyos being descending projectiles and Bub's bubbles having upward mobility is actually a pretty silly contrast that makes me hope they can share the spotlight.

Ah, I see. So I'd assume the Puyos (Or other hypothetical projectiles) would be something like the Belmont's Axe, then? Or would she just manifest the attacks above their heads and let them fall? Oh yeah, and if it falls fertically I'd imagine she might end up with some pretty potent anti-air potential too

I suppose Simon's axe is probably the closest thing we have to a distinctly vertical projectile, yeah. Although while that attack packs a good punch, Puyos would come out a lot quicker and be more setup oriented with much less kill potential. It would also fall completely vertically after reaching its peak, rather than on an arc. And I don't envision it simply spawning out of midair, since I'm imagining Arle tossing it out a very short distance in front of her before descension.

Speaking of Puyo Puyo, what are we looking at for playable characters?

Definitely Arle with Carbuncle assist. Carbuncle is one of my favorite things about the series and I believe Arle would feel incomplete without him. In what capacity I'm not sure - the possibilities are pretty endless. He can thrust forward for some disjointed attacks, I imagine that would be the basis. But he's also got some magic abilities of his own that can be peppered in. Perhaps he can use some sort of confusion beam to temporarily stun opponents. More than anything though, we need him to dance around and make silly faces when he's not doing anything.

As for Amitie and Ringo, they shouldn't be the priority, but depending on how Arle's kit is designed they may be able to slot in as echo fighters or skins. If her moveset is dominantly Puyos and some magic then it's possible. I really don't want her to be watered down just to accommodate for it though, since they're all very dynamic characters that deserve to shine individually. If the option is Amitie gets to be playable too but Carbuncle can't be in the moveset then I would opt for Arle + Carbuncle any day.

Although, as an aside, these cute figures exist where Amitie and Carbuncle get to buddy up.

And I dunno, maybe Ringo can substitute out Carbuncle for... an apple? Hey, I'm trying.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Just played more of The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom, and oh my goodness Rauru has some funny proportions. Tall as heck torso. Super long arms. Itty bitty little legs.

He still doesn't scream "potential Smash fighter" to me, but If they do add him I will enjoy his running and jumping animations. lol

 

[DarthEnderX]

He still doesn't scream "potential Smash fighter" to me

You don't say! The guy that does nothing except hold up a glowing hand doesn't seem like a good Smash character?

 

[Arcanir]

You don't say! The guy that does nothing except hold up a glowing hand doesn't seem like a good Smash character?

This is a weird point to make when characters have been made playable with even less to work with.

 

[Gengar84]

You don't say! The guy that does nothing except hold up a glowing hand doesn't seem like a good Smash character?

That hasn’t stopped anyone before. We have a race car driver, a villager, and three pilots but they made something work for all of them. With Rauru, at least he was the source of many of Link’s abilities in TotK so even though he was never really shown using them, we know he’s capable of using those abilities.

 

[SPEN18]

If they do add him I will enjoy his running and jumping animations

I feel like for his dash they might just go the "levitation" route like say Mewtwo has. For his second jump, lol he would probably look really awkward doing a flip or something, so it'd maybe be one of those jump-and-spin moves that some other characters do.

 

[fogbadge]

That hasn’t stopped anyone before. We have a race car driver, a villager, and three pilots but they made something work for all of them. With Rauru, at least he was the source of many of Link’s abilities in TotK so even though he was never really shown using them, we know he’s capable of using those abilities.

let’s not forget his ability to blast everything with light

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You don't say! The guy that does nothing except hold up a glowing hand doesn't seem like a good Smash character?

I mean...Zelda exists.

Beyond that though he just doesn't seem like a major enough character to be added*, especially given that they passed up on Midna. And Fi. And Impa. And Girahim. And the Champions.

*I've only seen Memories 3, 4, and 10.

I feel like for his dash they might just go the "levitation" route like say Mewtwo has. For his second jump, lol he would probably look really awkward doing a flip or something, so it'd maybe be one of those jump-and-spin moves that some other characters do.

The more that I think about it, the more it seems like Rauru would be an animation nightmare with the big hair acting like a cape and the teeny little legs covered up by his skirt thingy. I haven't really seen him levitate, and I don't want them to give it to him randomly like they did with Pyra/Mythra, but if his legs get lost in everything else otherwise, I'd forgive it.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

The issue is less "what can they do" and more "can Sakurai picture how they'd work".

 

[Will]

I mean...Zelda exists.

3/4 of her specials are stolen from OoT Link to this day

But I can’t imagine a revamped moveset unless everyone in the next game is ToTK-fied

 

[Perkilator]

But I can’t imagine a revamped moveset unless everyone in the next game is ToTK-fied

At the very least, Ganondorf should get a rework based on his boss fight from that game.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

You don't say! The guy that does nothing except hold up a glowing hand doesn't seem like a good Smash character?

Hmm, interesting take.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I’ve asked this one before a while back but I’ll ask again since there are probably some new people here that didn’t see it last time. What improvements would you like to see for the stage builder in the next game? I actually had a lot of fun playing with Ultimate’s but there are definitely a lot of limitations that keep it from living up to its full potential. I’ve got a few ideas myself but I’m curious what anyone else here thinks. Are you even interested in the feature to begin with? It’s my favorite side mode in Ultimate so I really hope they keep it and improve it.

Theres probably a lot of legal red tape that prevents this but i want to see a feature in stage builder where you can put the backgrounds from other stages on it instead of generic backdrops.

Like having green hill or Saffron city in the background of your stage

You don't say! The guy that does nothing except hold up a glowing hand doesn't seem like a good Smash character?

I thought you were talking about Isaac golden sun for a sec.

 

[Guynamednelson]

where you can put the backgrounds from other stages on it

That's where the backgrounds already come from. One of which is from Kalos League, so the Pokemon Company isn't a problem there, but none are from third-party stages.

 

[Will]

At the very least, Ganondorf should get a rework based on his boss fight from that game.

I get that. Link will probably also have some sort of change, perhaps a new recovery and a visual adjustment to tilts to utilize his arm?

But what the hell would we do with Zelda?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Theres probably a lot of legal red tape that prevents this but i want to see a feature in stage builder where you can put the backgrounds from other stages on it instead of generic backdrops.

The current backgrounds are actually from other stages:

• Battlefield
• Tomodachi Life
• Wrecking Crew
• Kalos Pokémon League
• Coliseum
• Find Mii
• Summit
• Final Destination
• Magicant
• Luigi's Mansion
• Rainbow Cruise
• Mario Galaxy

But they're all static images. If I had to guess, this is for file space reasons, but it is pretty disappointing that it's not all the stages, and some of them look pretty meh in this state.

 

[Ivander]

I've seen Memory 6 of Tears of the Kingdom to know that Rauru is very capable of being a Smash fighter.

 

[SPEN18]

The more that I think about it, the more it seems like Rauru would be an animation nightmare with the big hair acting like a cape and the teeny little legs covered up by his skirt thingy. I haven't really seen him levitate, and I don't want them to give it to him randomly like they did with Pyra/Mythra, but if his legs get lost in everything else otherwise, I'd forgive it.

We already have plenty of characters with capes, long hair, dresses, and etc. so I don't really see that being a problem (not to trivialize the hard and important work that all the animators do, but I don't think this would affect his eligibility).

He levitates in his "spirit form" at least; in any case I think he'd still be in-character doing it.

 

[Kirbeh]

While he doesn't do a whole lot you can absolutely make a fighter out Rauru. You can extrapolate and make things up as has been done with plenty of our current fighters and there's plenty to pull from TotK directly even if they're not things specific to him.

That said, he's still quite a ways down the list of BotW/TotK characters I'd like to see or Zelda characters in general for that matter.

Nothing against Rauru, the Champions, Sages, Kohga and Impa just make for better options (for me personally.)

 

[fogbadge]

The issue is less "what can they do" and more "can Sakurai picture how they'd work".

ah yes the thing keeping toad out. possibly

 

[DarthEnderX]

That hasn’t stopped anyone before. We have a race car driver, a villager, and three pilots but they made something work for all of them.

Those series don't have better options. Zelda is jam packed with better combat oriented characters, so there's no reason for them to have to resort to a do-nothing tertiary character just because TotK is the flavor-of-the-week.

At the very least, Ganondorf should get a rework based on his boss fight from that game.

This.

But what the hell would we do with Zelda?

I mean, she has a complete moveset in AoC.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I get that. Link will probably also have some sort of change, perhaps a new recovery and a visual adjustment to tilts to utilize his arm?

But what the hell would we do with Zelda?

She'd likely stay the same. If they didn't think Phantom fit anymore, maybe they'd shift Nayru's Love down to being a down special, and make her neutral special Bow of Light, or give her a Sheika Slate ability.

We already have plenty of characters with capes, long hair, dresses, and etc. so I don't really see that being a problem (not to trivialize the hard and important work that all the animators do, but I don't think this would affect his eligibility).

Oh I wasn't trying to say that this would make him less likely, just harder to animate.

 

[Garteam]

I really think that Zelda is stuck in Triforce Purgatory until the fanbase either rallies around a singular character (like DK fans did for K. Rool) or a fourth character gains enough prominence to appear with the same consistency that Link, Zelda, and Ganon do.

If Midna, Ghirahim, and the Champions couldn't get into Smash despite their relevance when various Smash entries were released, I don't know how much hope Rauru has.

 

[Gengar84]

My number one most wanted Zelda character is Impa, specifically her Hyrule Warriors incarnation. She was so cool in that game and had two fun and unique movesets they could pull from: a water based great sword and a fire based naginata. Either or both of these could really stand out in Smash. Hyrule Warriors also had an amazing soundtrack and that version of Impa could bring many of those songs with her.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

TotK is the flavor-of-the-week.

Is the flavor of the week just whatever the newest entry in a series is? Even as more Zelda games come out I’m pretty sure TotK & BotW will be lauded by millions for decades to come.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Just played more of The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom, and oh my goodness Rauru has some funny proportions. Tall as heck torso. Super long arms. Itty bitty little legs.

He has the Wind Waker body type.

 

[Will]

I mean, she has a complete moveset in AoC.

The only way that would happen is if we get AoC Impa as well in collaboration with Tecmo. Otherwise they wouldn’t mention the Warriors series.

 

[Gengar84]

The only way that would happen is if we get AoC Impa as well in collaboration with Tecmo. Otherwise they wouldn’t mention the Warriors series.

That’s a real shame. I wish Smash was more open to including content from spinoff games. Thankfully, Nintendo and Koei-Tecmo have a strong relationship so I can see them getting a character or two in the next game. If one of those characters is Lu Bu or another Warriors character, that could be a good excuse to throw in some content from the offshoot games like Hyrule Warriors too.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is the flavor of the week just whatever the newest entry in a series is?

That is generally what it means, yes.

or a fourth character gains enough prominence to appear with the same consistency that Link, Zelda, and Ganon do.

So, Impa.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The current backgrounds are actually from other stages:

• Battlefield
• Tomodachi Life
• Wrecking Crew
• Kalos Pokémon League
• Coliseum
• Find Mii
• Summit
• Final Destination
• Magicant
• Luigi's Mansion
• Rainbow Cruise
• Mario Galaxy

But they're all static images. If I had to guess, this is for file space reasons, but it is pretty disappointing that it's not all the stages, and some of them look pretty meh in this state.

I actually never noticed this.

 

[Louie G.]

I really think that Zelda is stuck in Triforce Purgatory until the fanbase either rallies around a singular character (like DK fans did for K. Rool)

I've spoken about it before, but DK fans did not rally exclusively behind K. Rool. They wanted K. Rool or Dixie Kong - preference was slightly split, but most fans wanted both of these characters to make an appearance. I would argue the same is true for Skull Kid and Midna, characters often mentioned alongside one another but have a generally shared sentiment of being the two most beloved "one-shot" characters in the series. But the support isn't cannibalizing itself, it's simply doubling up. I don't think Sakurai will look at two popular characters and deny them entry because one doesn't have an overwhelming lead over the other. Maybe in the Ballot you would have to decide to rally behind one or the other, but without that you're just going to look at them in a vacuum.

K. Rool was arguably a bit more popular than Dixie Kong, but same can definitely be said about Skull Kid. Whenever the conversation of "Skull Kid and Midna" arises usually there's an unspoken air about that conversation being mostly about Skull Kid. And he typically outperforms her on fan polls by a decent margin, seems to have a bit more presence in Smash Ultimate, the bottom line is he is about as much of a frontrunner in this race as K. Rool was in his own.

or a fourth character gains enough prominence to appear with the same consistency that Link, Zelda, and Ganon do.

Which is where Impa comes in. The main conflict from Zelda fans seems to be deciding between finding the next most significant supporting character or opting for a memorable major character from only a single game. Some people seem to be convinced "one-shot characters" don't have much of a place in Smash without cyclical protagonists, so Impa became somewhat of a fall back during Smash 4. This isn't to say that's the ONLY reason Impa became popular, because as Gengar pointed out her presence in Hyrule Warriors really gained her some new cred, but I feel as if this hasn't manifested into a major fan movement as much as it has a "safer" and more sensible roster prediction given Smash's prior history neglecting the Zelda character of the month.

So I guess my point is that I'm progressively convinced the idea we have to choose one character is kind of silly. It kind of operates on the assumption that this support is cannibalizing itself, or that Sakurai would just freeze up if he was confronted with two or three individually popular characters, and I don't think either of those sentiments are true. And this splinter in whether or not one-shot characters belong in Smash is not unlike the disagreements around Ridley's practicality, K. Rool's relevance, and nowadays Waluigi or Geno's general importance. Historically, the sect of the community who distinctly has a problem with this is not actually big enough to make a difference. So I don't think it's doing that much of a number here, unless Sakurai independently agrees with them.

There are plenty of reasons Zelda may not have gotten a new character, but I wouldn't continue to blame the community for it. Skull Kid arguably has some of the most notable presence in Ultimate out of any character who isn't playable or a boss (comparable to Isaac and Ashley - and factoring in the Moon AT), so I'd say he may have had a decent showing on the ballot. With how limited space was for newcomers to begin with, perhaps someone like him or Isaac may have been more fortunate under normal conditions.

That aside, I do think Rauru probably gets passed over or gets the AT treatment. Unless Sakurai is totally compelled to represent Link's TOTK abilities through someone other than Link, which I think would be wise as not to clutter his general gameplay with crazy arm stuff. But I'm talking more on the front of the popular choices now, rather than the most contemporary pick... who could simply get in separate from any of this if they wanted.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

I was thinking about Octoling and one of the idol's trailer that takes place in Aperture Science Enrichment Center. The Octoling wakes up in the relaxation vault and GLaDOS tasks it to do tests. Later on, the Octoling reaches GLaDOS and gets its butt kicked. Then one of the idols appears to help them.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Rauru and Skull Kid I think don't even necessarily have to be in competition with each other... It's been so long since we got a new Zelda character, the new games are uber popular but it's not like the old ones are forgotten relics of gaming's past either, they'd play nothing alike, to me it really feels like there's enough room for both.

But yeah I want Skull Kid a lot more.

 

[Will]

I have one thing to say when it comes to new Zelda content:

Koolo-Limpah

 

[Guynamednelson]

Skull Kid has a Mii Costume. A lot of Zelda characters fans are allegedly split between don't.

I think that should say a lot about how divided Zelda fans really are.

 

[fogbadge]

as we're on zelda i'd like to remind everyone about linkle

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I’m pretty optimistic about getting a new Zelda character, Zelda as a series has gotten significantly more popular after the release of BotW, and I can’t imagine Sakurai and Nintendo aren’t aware of the demand for a new Zelda character.

They could go for someone new like Raru or go for the most popular request in Skull Kid, or hell they could even do both, I don’t think that’s an impossibility.

 

[Will]

as we're on zelda i'd like to remind everyone about linkle

Linkle’s chances faded when Impa came out in Age of Calamity now that her supporters have a real moveset to work with.

 

[Louie G.]

Rauru and Skull Kid I think don't even necessarily have to be in competition with each other... It's been so long since we got a new Zelda character, the new games are uber popular but it's not like the old ones are forgotten pieces of gaming's past either, they'd play nothing alike, to me it really feels like there's enough room for both.

I pretty much agree with this, not that I entirely expect it but it would be justified.

I feel like any number of major series right now could see two new characters if the stars align. Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, even Pokemon if they're especially compelled by someone from one of the generations we skipped out on.

The last gen of Nintendo consoles has been all about expanding on established series rather than introducing new ones. So I'm prepared for the next batch of Nintendo newcomers to reflect that and simply continue building on most of the series we already have. With a handful of exceptions like Ring Fit and maybe a couple older series with sufficient popularity or throwback appeal, but it seems plausible that we could double up for a couple major series. Zelda in particular has seen such massive success on the Switch that it outright feels warranted.

Skull Kid has a Mii Costume. A lot of Zelda characters fans are allegedly split between don't.

In fairness, the Skull Kid costume works better than a Midna or Impa costume could have, especially since the actual mask makes it really convincing. But I'm pretty surprised we don't have a Midna helmet at least, that'd have been a pretty obvious piece of headgear.

 

[Laniv]

Vaati supporters are an endangered species. I should know, I'm one of them