Me and @
Amazing Ampharos
played some test games to nail down the specifics of the grab release combos discovered for Sheik, and against Wario. Spoilers: most don't work. But first, data lists:
The following characters are "short" in Smash 4, and can always be aerially released by "hold high" characters on level ground:
The follow characters "hold high" on flat ground:
The following characters always "hold high"; all characters, even against slopes:
(Additionally, Yoshi forces aerial grab release sometimes while pummeling, much rarer than in Brawl. The others do not.)
Most characters "hold high" on slopes; the following characters do not--only off edges entirely.
I hope you memorized those lists, because it turns out they are pretty unimportant.
There seems to be only one non-Wario grab-release combo in the game.
Marth/Lucina can grab release sweetspot up-b 2 all short characters EXCEPT:
That means it works on these 12:
This does 12%, and is a "headshot" on Bowser Jr. It kills level 9 Mario in training from the spawn position of FD (close to edge) at 114%. (Releasing/hitting outward) Marth and Lucina's up-b 2 are identical in every way, since it has a non-standard, non-tipper sweetspot.
Like Brawl, Wario's aerial grab release goes straight up. However, like most characters he can react sooner in Smash 4. Few moves can hit him, and most that can are vastly inferior to throws.
The following moves can hit Wario out of aerial grab release:
The following moves cannot:
Meta Knight's crazy suicidal grab release up-b 2 actually works on most characters if they do not air dodge it the first possible frame. (If they do, Meta Knight looks really stupid.)
Sheik down-b (any) is not a grab release combo on any character, contrary to rumors.
Conclusions:
Main point of discussion:
Do you think it is worth it for these characters (Shulk, ZSS, Marth/Lucina) to take these custom moves in applicable matchups? These lateral up-b options... aren't bad, but would not generally be my first choice. I personally really prefer default Dolphin Slahs on Marth, for example. But I don't main any of these guys; I'm interested to hear opinions.
Edit: Added DLC characters, and removed Mega Man from the "always holds high list", which seems to be no longer true after an unknown patch.
The following characters are "short" in Smash 4, and can always be aerially released by "hold high" characters on level ground:
The follow characters "hold high" on flat ground:
The following characters always "hold high"; all characters, even against slopes:
(Additionally, Yoshi forces aerial grab release sometimes while pummeling, much rarer than in Brawl. The others do not.)
Most characters "hold high" on slopes; the following characters do not--only off edges entirely.
I hope you memorized those lists, because it turns out they are pretty unimportant.
There seems to be only one non-Wario grab-release combo in the game.
Marth/Lucina can grab release sweetspot up-b 2 all short characters EXCEPT:
That means it works on these 12:
This does 12%, and is a "headshot" on Bowser Jr. It kills level 9 Mario in training from the spawn position of FD (close to edge) at 114%. (Releasing/hitting outward) Marth and Lucina's up-b 2 are identical in every way, since it has a non-standard, non-tipper sweetspot.
/ up-b 1 sourspot/ up-b 2 sourspotup-b 1 initial sourspot only (does not hold high! only air-releases off edge!)up-b 2 both hits (does not hold high! only air-releases off edge! CERTAIN SUICIDE)up-b 1 initial hit onlyup-b 2 both hitsup-b 3KO Punch
u-smashu-smash or aerials (fair is really close)up-b 2up-b 1up-b 2up-b (any)up-b 3Anything else
Meta Knight's crazy suicidal grab release up-b 2 actually works on most characters if they do not air dodge it the first possible frame. (If they do, Meta Knight looks really stupid.)
Sheik down-b (any) is not a grab release combo on any character, contrary to rumors.
Conclusions:
Little Mac can indeed KO Punch Wario out of grab.FIXEDZSS and Shulk can do a decent damage combo on Wario out of grab, if and only if they accept their weaker, lateral custom up-bs in that matchup. Maybe worth it.FIXEDMeta Knight has an insane suicide high-percent KO move on Wario, if and only if he takes his lateral custom up-b AND grabs Wario at the ledge. Maybe useful?FIXED- If Marth/Lucina take custom up-b 2 against short characters, they have a 12% grab release that is a high-percent kill move. (Not bad if you grab them on ledge) Depends how much Marth/Lucina prefer the other, generally superior up-bs.
- We are pretty confident are no other grab releases in the game, including Bouncing Fish.
Main point of discussion:
Do you think it is worth it for these characters (
Edit: Added DLC characters, and removed Mega Man from the "always holds high list", which seems to be no longer true after an unknown patch.
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