Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

The leeway is that he could reject any character that was brought up. He just didn't feel there was any good reason to. It wasn't going to be for gameplay reasons at the time, though other things could've come up that we don't know about.

He is given a lot of power, but every single DLC character bar PP was not chosen by him. Though a note is Min Min was requested by the creator first(though it's pretty obvious he talked to Nintendo first, otherwise it would contradict the statements given. It's a pure logical conclusion).

He still rejected characters during this time. After all he gave Rex the boot for no other reason than he didn’t want him as part of the transforming cycle. No ones forcing sakurai to do things he doesn’t want to. As far as we know at least

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He still rejected characters during this time. After all he gave Rex the boot for no other reason than he didn’t want him as part of the transforming cycle. No ones forcing sakurai to do things he doesn’t want to. As far as we know at least

That's my point. Though keep in mind he didn't reject the character so much as couldn't make Rex work within the moveset like he wanted to. It's a bit different of a situation.

But yeah, he can't really speak on many who couldn't make it in. NDA and all. We're lucky we have so much information on development as is.

 

[RileyXY1]

I really don't expect many third party cuts, if at all.
I mean maybe and but even that's stretching it a whole lot, hell, Terry might as well get in the next game due to Sakurai bias and how much he loves the SNK games.

I expect a lot more first party cuts than third party.

I think all the SE characters are going unless they do Everyone is Here a second time.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

He still rejected characters during this time. After all he gave Rex the boot for no other reason than he didn’t want him as part of the transforming cycle. No ones forcing sakurai to do things he doesn’t want to. As far as we know at least

That's not true at all.

The reason Rex was scrapped was due to hardware limitations. It wasn't that he "didn't want him"

The Switch couldn't handle his original concept so Sakurai downgraded to just Pyra and Mythra.

 

[Noipoi]

I think all the SE characters are going unless they do Everyone is Here a second time.

I actually think SE will be willing to play ball just enough to have either Cloud or Hero be base game. Maybe both if they’re really feeling nice.

But Sephiroth and Sora, while I do think they’re coming back, I 100% believe they’ll be dlc veterans.

 

[Perkilator]

He still rejected characters during this time. After all he gave Rex the boot for no other reason than because he literally could not make it work due to the Switch's technical limitations

FIFY. Here's video evidence in case you still don't take my word for it.

 

[fogbadge]

That's my point. Though keep in mind he didn't reject the character so much as couldn't make Rex work within the moveset like he wanted to. It's a bit different of a situation.

But yeah, he can't really speak on many who couldn't make it in. NDA and all. We're lucky we have so much information on development as is.

Well he did also say he thought about making him part of the transformation mechanism and it seems unlikely that he would do that if he was that bothered about him having the initial moveset idea.

That's not true at all.

The reason Rex was scrapped was due to hardware limitations. It wasn't that he "didn't want him"

The Switch couldn't handle his original concept so Sakurai downgraded to just Pyra and Mythra.

FIFY. Here's video evidence in case you still don't take my word for it.

No that’s why they they couldn’t appear on stage together. He also rejected the idea of having them in the background PT style and later in his famitsu article he said that he considered various combinations. Rex was on his mind the whole time and he said no at every turn

and btw here is this very websites own news article about it https://smashboards.com/threads/sakurais-final-famitsu-article-part-one.515952/

 

[RileyXY1]

I actually think SE will be willing to play ball just enough to have either Cloud or Hero be base game. Maybe both if they’re really feeling nice.

But Sephiroth and Sora, while I do think they’re coming back, I 100% believe they’ll be dlc veterans.

I don't think they'll do it this time without Everyone is Here. I think that SE almost ruined it by forcing them to make Cloud DLC again, but Sakurai cut a deal with them that required them to add another Final Fantasy VII character as DLC, which is how I think Sephiroth got into the game.

 

[Noipoi]

I don't think they'll do it this time without Everyone is Here.

You don’t think a lot of things

I think that SE almost ruined it by forcing them to make Cloud DLC again, but Sakurai cut a deal with them that required them to add another Final Fantasy VII character as DLC, which is how I think Sephiroth got into the game.

 

[Super Devon]

Well he did also say he thought about making him part of the transformation mechanism and it seems unlikely that he would do that if he was that bothered about him having the initial moveset idea.

Are we certain this is the case? Because I’m pretty sure Sakurai was considering Rex to fight alongside the transforming Pyra and Mythra in a similar fashion that the Ice Climbers already do.

I don't think they'll do it this time without Everyone is Here. I think that SE almost ruined it by forcing them to make Cloud DLC again, but Sakurai cut a deal with them that required them to add another Final Fantasy VII character as DLC, which is how I think Sephiroth got into the game.

Huh?
How do we know SE attempting to force Cloud to be DLC again? How do we know that Square was requiring Sakurai to make Sephiroth DLC?
The DLC was not finalized until the game was nearly out and even then, it was Nintendo making the deals for DLC.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think they'll do it this time without Everyone is Here. I think that SE almost ruined it by forcing them to make Cloud DLC again, but Sakurai cut a deal with them that required them to add another Final Fantasy VII character as DLC, which is how I think Sephiroth got into the game.

Uh, no. DLC was decided in July 2017. Cloud was decided to be back in Ultimate 2015 or lightly earlier.

It's not actually possible for it to have happened. DLC was never on the table at that point. The lack of content is just negotiations not going well, plain and simple.

Sephiroth was never on the original project plan, nor was there possibly a DLC project plan till around 2 years later. None of this could've happened. The theory actually was debunked quite a bit ago. What is possible is that Sakurai liked the idea of Sephiroth since it could also get more FFVII content too, but that's really the only theory that can hold water with the knowledge we have.

Well he did also say he thought about making him part of the transformation mechanism and it seems unlikely that he would do that if he was that bothered about him having the initial moveset idea.

That's not what rejected means. That's what "limitations" mean. I get what you're saying, but Rex himself wasn't rejected in the sense we mean. He was still attempted as is, but it couldn't work out.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Which was a surprise to me at the time. I was fully expecting them to cut Ness and Captain Falcon from Smash SNES.

Ahh Smash SNES. The last time we saw Uniracer...

 

[fogbadge]

Are we certain this is the case? Because I’m pretty sure Sakurai was considering Rex to fight alongside the transforming Pyra and Mythra in a similar fashion that the Ice Climbers already do.




Huh?
How do we know SE attempting to force Cloud to be DLC again? How do we know that Square was requiring Sakurai to make Sephiroth DLC?
The DLC was not finalized until the game was nearly out and even then, it was Nintendo making the deals for DLC.

I posted a link to the article where he says he considered things like that

That's not what rejected means. That's what "limitations" mean. I get what you're saying, but Rex himself wasn't rejected in the sense we mean. He was still attempted as is, but it couldn't work out.

I know that. But the fact he was still considering having Rex after they hit the technical wall and one of his other ideas was solo Rex means that those limitations weren’t the only reason he didn’t make it

 

[DarthEnderX]

If the Switch 2 is indeed backwards compatible.....it makes no sense to make an Ultimate+ or whatever if you can literally play Ultimate on the system normally.

If the Switch 2 is indeed backwards compatible, they don't need to make a new Smash at all. They can just pull a MK8D and start putting out DLC again 5 years later.

It'd be like having Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe compatible for the same system.

...Mario Kart 8 compatible for the same system is what Mario Kart 8 Deluxe IS.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I know that. But the fact he was still considering having Rex after they hit the technical wall and one of his other ideas was solo Rex means that those limitations weren’t the only reason he didn’t make it

Among those other reasons is probably the fact that Pyra and Mythra swapping and having different movesets was more of a unique idea than Rex on his own. It's not that he didn't like Rex, it's that what we ended up getting in the end was more interesting to him.

Are you going to tell me that he also doesn't like Chrom which is why we got Robin instead in Smash 4? Because that's what your logic is.

 

[Garteam]

I used to be firmly on the "Sephiroth will be DLC" train, but now I think it depends on what Nintendo and Sakurai offer them.

I could see Nintendo leveraging a new character in a DLC pack in exchange for getting Sephiroth in the base game. I could also see Square being more open to Sephiroth's inclusion in the base game if FFVII Rebirth is an early Switch 2 game.

Square generally struggling in the 2020s may also a relevant factor to consider. DLC characters make more money in the long run, but licensing deals for launch products make money now. It really depends on how dire things actually are behind the scenes, as all we have right now to gauge things are statements from shareholder meetings that are partially meant to serve as damage control.

Disney would play hardball with Sora, but they're also not doing too hot and they seem to want to find avenues into gaming that aren't just in-house development or licensing the right to make adaptations to third-party studios. Sakurai seemed to also suggest that Nomura was made Sora difficult rather than Disney, so who knows how that'll go. He's definitely the third party in the most precarious position right now.

 

[TheQuester]

I really don't expect many third party cuts, if at all.
I mean maybe and but even that's stretching it a whole lot, hell, Terry might as well get in the next game due to Sakurai bias and how much he loves the SNK games.

I expect a lot more first party cuts than third party.

I think Hero getting cut is something i'm half-expecting, the series has licensing stuff splits by various right holders and who knows who owns the music rights now that Sugiyama has passed away.
It's a miracle Eight and the others made it to Ultimate, honestly.

 

[Noipoi]

If the Switch 2 is indeed backwards compatible, they don't need to make a new Smash at all. They can just pull a MK8D and start putting out DLC again 5 years later.

...Mario Kart 8 compatible for the same system is what Mario Kart 8 Deluxe IS.

Sure, they could. They absolutely won’t, but they could.

Under the assumption that the backwards compatibility means they won’t do an Ultimate Deluxe, do you really think they’d let a Nintendo console go by without a new Smash? The centerpiece and ultimate hype machine of every Nintendo system since the N64?

I already know you’re gonna say yes

 

[fogbadge]

Are you going to tell me that he also doesn't like Chrom which is why we got Robin instead in Smash 4? Because that's what your logic is.

yes

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Sure, they could. They absolutely won’t, but they could.

Under the assumption that the backwards compatibility means they won’t do an Ultimate Deluxe, do you really think they’d let a Nintendo console go by without a new Smash? The centerpiece and ultimate hype machine of every Nintendo system since the N64?

I already know you’re gonna say yes

B-b-but.....Everyone is Here......FOREVER......

 

[Sucumbio]

Sora is the only character I'm not sure about. Cloud, Sephiroth, Hero with Geno as a newcomer!

 

[Guynamednelson]

yes

Then why would he bother making Chrom playable in any form whatsoever? I mean sure he's reusing a preexisting model and hasn't been removed from Robin's FS, but making Chrom an echo with intentional gameplay differences would require him to care somewhat.

 

[TheQuester]

I used to be firmly on the "Sephiroth will be DLC" train, but now I think it depends on what Nintendo and Sakurai offer them.

I could see Nintendo leveraging a new character in a DLC pack in exchange for getting Sephiroth in the base game. I could also see Square being more open to Sephiroth's inclusion in the base game if FFVII Rebirth is an early Switch 2 game.

I wonder what character square-enix might push for? I asume 2B and maybe a Octopath character?

 

[Perkilator]

I wonder what character square-enix might push for? I asume 2B and maybe a Octopath character?

I could also see Geno being a character they push for due to his relevance being boosted by the SMRPG remake.

 

[Opossum]

yes

Yeah, he definitely has something against Chrom.

When you fail to make someone playable but basically pull out the red carpet for them in supplementary content (giving them a significant amount of screen time in marketing material and working them into a Final Smash while also adding in a cameo in Palutena's Guidance) and talk candidly about how some fans may be disappointed, only to then make them playable in the next game due to popular demand, it's obvious that you despise the character. Clearly there is no conflicting logic at play here.

That's definitely what someone does when they hate something.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I wonder what character square-enix might push for? I asume 2B and maybe a Octopath character?

Square Enix just randomly allowed 2B in the Granblue fighting game despite no collaboration with the franchise before that (which is noteworthy because Granblue Fantasy crosses over with so much stuff) and that wasn't even her first time in a fighting game either since she crossed blades with Soulcalibur characters.

There's no doubt in my mind that if we see a new Square character, it'll be 2B. Likely with leggings to censor her so they can still do the self-destruct.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

2B or not 2B.

That is the question.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Moronic Quick Question: Is Geno SMRPG a SwordBoy McJRPGDude?

 

[Garteam]

I wonder what character square-enix might push for? I asume 2B and maybe a Octopath character?

I'd say Geno is the most likely SQ newcomer generally, but I honestly think he'll be a base game character (as bizarre as that is to type). I think 2B is very likely, but I could also see Tifa and Slime (who I personally think would be the most fun of their available options).

 

[CannonStreak]

I'd say Geno is the most likely SQ newcomer generally, but I honestly think he'll be a base game character (as bizarre as that is to type). I think 2B is very likely, but I could also see Tifa and Slime (who I personally think would be the most fun of their available options).

I am thinking that, too. If it was mainly Nintendo that chose the DLC again, I can see them NOT choosing Geno, so with however much control Sakurai has over characters in the base game, I think the base game is Geno's best bet.

 

[Perkilator]

Moronic Quick Question: Is Geno SMRPG a SwordBoy McJRPGDude?

I can’t with this **** no more

 

[SpecterFlower]

Square Enix just randomly allowed 2B in the Granblue fighting game despite no collaboration with the franchise before that (which is noteworthy because Granblue Fantasy crosses over with so much stuff) and that wasn't even her first time in a fighting game either since she crossed blades with Soulcalibur characters.

There's no doubt in my mind that if we see a new Square character, it'll be 2B. Likely with leggings to censor her so they can still do the self-destruct.

2B also has the advantgae of no hoops to jump through, everything is owned by square directly

 

[SPEN18]

I could also see Geno being a character they push for due to his relevance being boosted by the SMRPG remake.

Sorry, but I simply cannot see Square pushing for Geno...at the end of the day SMRPG on Switch is a remake that doesn't promote any of their own IP. I would guess that Square would probably prefer just about anyone else of theirs.
Not that Square would be able to get whoever they want in, anyway; the characters are chosen by Nintendo/Sakurai.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sorry, but I simply cannot see Square pushing for Geno...at the end of the day SMRPG on Switch is a remake that doesn't promote any of their own IP. I would guess that Square would probably prefer just about anyone else of theirs.
Not that Square would be able to get whoever they want in, anyway; the characters are chosen by Nintendo/Sakurai.

...I mean, they literally own Geno.

Odd wording aside(I know you mean IP's they fully own, it's just your wording is misleading to others).

But yeah, I don't see it. Nintendo/Sakurai might be more interested in Geno now that it's relevant, but that's kind of it. In fact, he might have already been licensed. But seeing as DLC has never been licensed till later in Smash development anyway, he's probably more likely as a base or negotiations never finished(which doesn't help him being DLC either). It's kind of an awkward thing to deal with due to how the project plan actually is done.

 

[Noipoi]

With the remake being recent, and a new Smash probably already in development in at least some form, this is the best chance Geno’s ever had.

They clearly know he has supporters, so who knows. Maybe this’ll finally be his big break.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

With the remake being recent, and a new Smash probably already in development in at least some form, this is the best chance Geno’s ever had.

They clearly know he has supporters, so who knows. Maybe this’ll finally be his big break.

Or he'll be an Assist. :V

Seems to be a common fate.

 

[Noipoi]

Or he'll be an Assist. :V

Seems to be a common fate.

A lot of people would be really disappointed but y'know what?

I'd take it

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

A lot of people would be really disappointed but y'know what?

I'd take it

It's a step up from a Spirit. Though kind of eh compared to a Costume. But it still is given more attention in the end. That's still quite nice.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If a full blown, full priced remake of Chrono Trigger comes out after the next Smash releases and before the DLC for it ends how likely do you think Crono is for DLC?

 

[CannonStreak]

Sorry, but I simply cannot see Square pushing for Geno...at the end of the day SMRPG on Switch is a remake that doesn't promote any of their own IP. I would guess that Square would probably prefer just about anyone else of theirs.
Not that Square would be able to get whoever they want in, anyway; the characters are chosen by Nintendo/Sakurai.

I think the remake does more than that. It is not it being a remake that matters, but what game it is, and despite it being released at the end of the SNES' lifetime and not being released in Europe, Super Mario RPG is a classic, and it was very well liked, and that includes Geno, who was well liked too, among other things, so the remake definitely helps.

Still, I can acknowledge other things...

...Just like how a physical force hinders an object from accelerating forever in physics due to forces on the object balancing out, a remake only does so much, even for Super Mario RPG. I mean, that and other things can and do limit how the remake can affect Geno's chances, so it is safe to say that a remake can only do so much.

But anyway, I did hear that the creator of Super Mario RPG did want to do a sequel to that game, so if Geno does not really get in the next game, a possible Super Mario RPG sequel, if made, can give Geno an extra chance, if just one more.