If Ganondorf in a Smash 6 was more based on the TOTK?

[Dededekage Kira]

If Ganondorf in a Smash 6 was more based on the TOTK version, what might his moveset be like?

 

[Perkilator]

Hopefully completely remade from the ground up.

 

[MasterCheef]

Demon King Ganondorf
Ganondorf‘s ; taunts , up = Too Weak! , down = warlock punch
Ganondorf‘s , Aerials ; ( Forward & back ) = gloom club swing
G’s Walk speed buff = 1.29 & air speed nerf = .44 & ZERO running
Ganondorf‘s , Horizontal Smash attack = gloom club swing & attacks properly
He starts the swing with the gloom club vertically above his head
Ganondorf‘s , Specials ; Neutral = gloom shots , & , up = levitate
Ganondorf’s aerial neutral Special = Wizard’s stunning volley
WSV = shoots out a medium ball of electricity w/ high hit-stun
Ganondorf’s , Specials ; down = gloom burst , & , side = Spear Charge
Spear Charge only goes diagonally down at a 30 degree angle in air
Ganondorf’s aerial side Special = Wizard’s Rising Gloom Grab
WRGG = Ganondorf Levitates up & grabs opponent & shocks them with gloom
WRGG = causes plenty of hit-stun for a follow up hit

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

The last character who needs a rework is Ganondorf.

 

[Mr. Mediocre]

The last character who needs a rework is Ganondorf.

And pray tell, why should the last-minute Captain Falcon clone in Melee have to stick to that design and forgo a rework?

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

And pray tell, why should the last-minute Captain Falcon clone in Melee have to stick to that design and forgo a rework?

He's already got a pretty iconic and well-rounded gameplay style that only needs minor tweeks like a glide because he isn't outright annoying to play against like some of the more recent and/or source-accurate characters, and personally, I like it when Smash is inaccurate to its source material, and I just love reskins and clones as a whole, they're one of my favourite things about gaming as a medium - I'm also a huge fan of the 90s-era puzzle game localisations like Mean Bean Machine - I like how reskins and clones expose the functions and systems beneath a game a slight bit.

There are only two good reasons for a rework: either because they're annoying, or because they're source accurate (which is an almost circular venn diagram anyway). Ganondorf is neither, he just needs a good buff and a glide.

 

[SpecterFlower]

He's already got a pretty iconic and well-rounded gameplay style that only needs minor tweeks like a glide because he isn't outright annoying to play against like some of the more recent and/or source-accurate characters, and personally, I like it when Smash is inaccurate to its source material, and I just love reskins and clones as a whole, they're one of my favourite things about gaming as a medium - I'm also a huge fan of the 90s-era puzzle game localisations like Mean Bean Machine - I like how reskins and clones expose the functions and systems beneath a game a slight bit.

There are only two good reasons for a rework: either because they're annoying, or because they're source accurate (which is an almost circular venn diagram anyway). Ganondorf is neither, he just needs a good buff and a glide.

Well rounded gameplay?


he was mediocre in melee
The worst character in brawl
The worst character in 4
The worst character in ultimate


his is literally unsalvagable poop.

He is a heavyweight clone of a rushdown.
His moveset fundamentally does not function.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Well rounded gameplay?


he was mediocre in melee
The worst character in brawl
The worst character in 4
The worst character in ultimate


his is literally unsalvagable poop.

My point wasn't about viability or tier lists. I was mostly talking about his design for fighting against, where he is non-intrusive, as well as my personal disdain for source accuracy and love for clones/reskins. If a character isn't annoying for others to fight, then they're inherently fine.

 

[SpecterFlower]

My point wasn't about viability or tier lists. I was mostly talking about his design for fighting against, where he is non-intrusive, as well as my personal disdain for source accuracy and love for clones/reskins.

Viability is often correlated with fun at the lower levels.

mid you’re up agaisnt ganondorf es easy gimpable combo fodder, and if you are playing ganondorf you just gotta a crept they picked a zoner from the sect screen and you lost from the begging.

it can be fun to make bad characters work yeah and there’s peanut for that.

bur ganondorf has no strengths, he’s so slow he’s barely usable other than nair

the only buff he needs is speed. But then he’s just even more of a falcon clone. And you can like clones whatever but this is like if bowser was a fox clone.

one of the most iconic video games in gaming with tons of weapons and magic and appearances at his dismissal is a clone of a smash oc that has 0 souce material

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Viability is often correlated with fun at the lower levels.

mid you’re up agaisnt ganondorf es easy gimpable combo fodder, and if you are playing ganondorf you just gotta a crept they picked a zoner from the sect screen and you lost from the begging.

it can be fun to make bad characters work yeah and there’s peanut for that.

bur ganondorf has no strengths, he’s so slow he’s barely usable other than nair

the only buff he needs is speed. But then he’s just even more of a falcon clone. And you can like clones whatever but this is like if bowser was a fox clone.

one of the most iconic video games in gaming with tons of weapons and magic and appearances at his dismissal is a clone of a smash oc that has 0 souce material

So, you've given a simple fix for his weaknesses, one that has worked really well for Smash characters like DK and Bowser in the past, but you don't want that fix because of... uniqueness???? I don't understand this logic at all.

But then he’s just even more of a falcon clone

one of the most iconic video games in gaming with tons of weapons and magic and appearances at his dismissal is a clone of a smash oc that has 0 souce material

this is like if bowser was a fox clone.

I don't get how any of these are bad things??? Bowser as a Fox clone is realistically unfeasible, sure, but if it was possible, it's not like it'd be an issue if he were fun and not annoying. At least it's not an overly-source-accurate moveset.

 

[SpecterFlower]

So, you've given a simple fix for his weaknesses, one that has worked really well for Smash characters like DK and Bowser in the past, but you don't want that fix because of... uniqueness???? I don't understand this logic at all.

Cause I like Zelda and ganondorf in Zelda games.

I want to play as ganon and not a ****tier version of falcon.

I very characters sad characters as much as I do as functions and yes, being source material is good that’s why 90% of people ply smash and want ganandorf changed.

even if you really dislike when characters are accurate to the their source material for some reason

 

[Perkilator]

I just remembered a moveset posted last year, and it's honestly the best take on TotK Ganondorf that I've seen.

AFTER A LONG SLUMBER, THE DEMON KING REAWAKENS...​

SPOILERS FOR THE LEGEND OF ZELDA: TEARS OF THE KINGDOM.

Spoiler: Overview

The Menace Unleashed:
Once again, the Demon King is reborn. Unlike his previous incarnation as a warlock with a penchant for brawling, this Ganondorf is a well-trained warrior through and through. He is a master of arms, using every ounce of his strength to wield powerful Gerudo weapons to cleave and crush any foes beneath him. Additionally the power of the secret stone has augmented his very being allowing him to channel his innate darkness and manifest it physically as a force that seeps into the earth and corrupts all those who touch it. Like his previous incarnation he maintains the bone-crushing power he once had, but this time his agility has gotten significantly better and his armaments allow him unprecedented range for a super-heavyweight. In terms of sheer power, he rules over all, for that is what a king must do.

Spoiler: Mechanic

Gloom:
Ganondorf's overflowing malevolence manifests physically as a black-red darkness that lies on top of surfaces, lasting for a short period of time before fading and inflicting continued damage to those that step over it. Furthermore, getting directly hit by any of Ganondorf's fearsome "gloom" attacks infects the enemy with a debuff that gives them slight damage over time. This effect is applied to all of Ganondorf's Specials and Smash attacks, meaning those attacks in particular are scary even beyond their already sizeable power.

Spoiler: Specials

Neutral Special: Gloom Cylone
-Ganondorf charges a spin attack similar to Link's except it's only one revolution. The spin itself at minimum charge is very quick and moderately powerful, acting as both a good "get-off-me" tool and as a combo finisher. It covers the area in gloom in a small area around him.

Side Special: Gloom Skewer
-Ganondorf transforms his sword into the spear and quickly charges dark energy into it before rapidly charging forward across the ground, stopping to do a lethal stab forward when an enemy is in front of him. Along the way, he leaves a trail of Gloom.

In the air, he only does the powerful stab, but that stab itself still gives him a lot of momentum for recovery. Alternatively that stab can function as a powerful albeit slow offstage stock ender.

Down Special: Gloom Eruption
-Ganondorf transforms his sword into the metal club and holds it reverse grip, charging dark energy around himself. He then stabs the club into the ground, causing a massive explosion and spreading gloom around a large area around himself. Depending on how long it's charged, the explosion and gloom spread will be bigger.
Additionally, if Ganondorf is hit with a melee attack, he will automatically armor through and activate the move, acting as a sort of counter-offensive attack.

In the attack is released in midair, Ganondorf will dive to the earth and stab it down there, detonating it all the same. While he has a stabbing hitbox as he falls, he loses his counter property. This will allow Ganondorf a way of reaching foes beneath himself while also providing another option to fall down and attempt to escape his disadvantage state.

Up Special: Gloom Vector
-Ganondorf does a powerful rising uppercut that he follows up with by summoning a bow and firing an arrow wreathed in dark energy diagonally downwards. It has a unique effect in that wherever the arrow lands, it will start generating a growing area of gloom that spreads out over a period of time before fading. Provides Ganondorf with a reliable out of shield option and also additional stage control.

Spoiler: Normals

Jab Starters: Elbow-Spinslash
-Ganondorf does a quick elbow strike with his free arm and follows up with an outward spin slash and leads to one of two different finishers. Fast and standard as far as jab starters go, though the slash has a lot of range for a jab, and knocks the enemy inwards for the follow-ups.

Jab Simple Finisher: Ore Smasher
-If Ganondorf does a simple finisher, he quickly transforms the sword into a club and swings outward, knocking them away and killing at high percent.

Jab Rapid Finisher: Flurry Rush
-If Ganondorf does his rapid finisher, he transforms the sword into a spear and does multiple stabs forward, ending with a wide cleave that knocks them away. Much weaker but does a lot of damage and has a large amount of range.

Forward Tilt: Gerudo Combination
-Ganondorf does a series of 3 diagonal cuts that lunge slightly forward. The slashes are on different inputs so the player can mix up the opponent on when he stops if it's blocked. Good reaching move and the final hit consistently kills at high percent.

Down Tilt: Flame Wreath
-Ganondorf wreaths his free hand with dark energy and chops at the opponenet's feet, his sleeve wreathed in gloom energy. Pops enemies up for aerial comboes and is a relatively quick, long-reaching, and safe poking tool.

Up Tilt: Beast Howl
-Ganondorf roars and lets loose a dark shockwave resonating around him, launching anyone away, serving to protect Ganondorf from both sides and within the air

Dash Attack: Cleave
-Ganondorf dashes forward and does a horizontal slash. Has a large amount of killing power and is decently fast, but only if it lands at the tipper sweet spot.

Spoiler: Smashes

Forward Smash: Gloom Sword
-Ganondorf wreaths his sword with energy and uses both hands to swing the gloom sword forward with all his might, increasing its normal length with a blade made of dark energy, viciously slicing enemies a fair distance away and killing very early. Mediocre speed but it's fast enough to catch people on unawares.

Down Smash: Gloom Club
-Ganondorf transforms his sword into the metal club and leaps into the air, slamming the club downwards and causing a massive shockwave. This evasive maneuver deals a large amount of shield damage and spikes enemies on the ledge on top of obviously being a great killing blow.

Up Smash: Gloom Spear
-Ganondorf transforms his sword into the spear and spins it repeatedly above his head, catching all foes above him before slashing forward and knocking everyone caught away forwards.

Spoiler: Aerials

Neutral Air: Whirlwind
-Ganondorf slashes the sword upwards in a wide arc in front of him. One of Ganondorf's most reliable moves, coming out fast, covering a wide arc in front of him and easily fitting in combos, lifting enemies further into the air in front.

Forward Air: Helm Splitter
-Ganondorf readies the sword above his head and violently slashes vertically in front of him. Very similar to his old forward air but with slightly more range on account of using a sword and is faster in general. Though it lacks as much power that the original had, the version is still extremely powerful and the versatility makes it more likely to actually be used and land.

Down Air: Wizard's Foot
-Ganondorf stomps diagonally down with one foot, spiking anyone caught underneath. It's a bit faster than his old spike, but has a narrower and more specific hitbox. Regardless it remains the same knockback power it used to, and also has increased shield damage to compensate.

Up Air: Reverse Thrust Kick
-Ganondorf does a midair splits kick aimed diagonally upwards. Has a similarly narrow hitbox but comes out relatively quickly and is very powerful. Useful for securing kills for the attacks that sent the enemy upwards.

Back Air: Reverse Punt
-Gaondorf does a backflip and then kicks behind him, spiking opponents caught in the sweetspot behind himself. Has a very strange hitbox that covers above and directly behind Ganondorf but comes out quickly and hits hard as well, making it a very reliable move to check opponents from doing aerial approaches.

Spoiler: Grabs/Throws

Grab: Flame Choke
-Ganondorf leans forward and grabs with their free hand infused with dark energy.

Pummel: Corrupt
-Ganondorf causes an explosion of dark energy to detonate, damaging the opponent.

Forward Throw: Piercing Kick
-Ganondorf lightly tosses the enemy into the air and follows up with a straight horizontal lunging kick to their midsection as they fall that knocks them at a sharp angle horizontally. It kills only at high percent, but at the ledge, it puts the enemy at an extremely disadvantageous position.

Down Throw: Volcano Kick
-Ganondorf throws the grabbed opponent onto the ground and does a crushing axe kick that explodes on impact with the ground and launches them upwards, being by far his strongest killing throw.

Up Throw: Flame Wave
-Ganondorf holds his foe high above and charges a powerful blast of dark energy that blasts them diagonally upwards with weak knockback, leading to more combos. Uniquely, this is the only move aside from his smashes and specials that applies gloom, making it very scary to either block or challenge Ganondorf.

Back Throw: Cast Off
-Ganondorf skewers the enemy with the gloom sword and then throws them off behind himself. Only average as a throw but at high percent and at ledge it could kill at high enough percent.

Spoiler: Final Smash

FINAL SMASH: The Demon King's Blood Moon
-Ganondorf gathers a huge amount of dark energy and activates his secret stone, causing a giant swirling pillar of darkness to sweep around him, drenching the sky in deep red under the light of the blood moon and transforming him into his Demon King form. Anyone caught by this is launched into a cinematic where Ganondorf leaps out of the pillar of darkness riding a demonic horse and wielding his spear, leaping out and slashing anyone caught with a giant slash of dark energy.