• All episodes of the new Smash Brothers documentary 'Metagame' are available on Vimeo! Get Metagame Here

  • Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

  • Support Smashboards and get Premium Membership today!

ZeRo's Updated Tier List

Do you agree with this list?

  • ZeRo, solid tier list. Well done!

    Votes: 37 42.0%
  • ZeRo, you have some explaining to do about ___x___ being in this spot!

    Votes: 51 58.0%

  • Total voters
    88


On Jun 19, Gonzalo "ZeRo" Barrios released a new updated tier list for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U. ZeRo condenses his thoughts and has separated his list in low, mid, high, and top tier format. ZeRo gives reasonable insight for each selection and the characters that inhabit it.

ZeRo's Updated June Tier List
As the game enters its third year of competitive rotation, the meta is rapidly changing among the community. ZeRo has been epicenter of which character is viable, consistency, and his thoughts on the ever changing meta. One popular question that ZeRo gets asked constantly on Twitter or any social media platform is, " ZeRo, what does your tier list consist of this 1.1.6 patch and the meta surrounding it?"

ZeRo has an answer for that and has been quite consistent this time around releasing his opinionated tier list videos as of late. What makes this release different than ZeRo's usual tier list releases is where he discussed his opinions in a series of highly anticipated videos, he has condensed the entire list into a singular video.


ZeRo's Tier List
Now that ZeRo's updated tier list has been released, do you agree with it? Is Bayonetta the best?! Please comment down to let us know what you think! Please don't forget to follow him on twitter @TSMZeRo for more updates, subscribe to ZeRo's YouTube channel for more quality content such as his tier lists and more!
 
Josh Olalde

Comments

Stated this before and I'll state it again. :4corrinf: at 27 and being below :4rob: and :4robinm: is really something that needs to be looked into.
 
Well, I certainly agree with :4lucina: sharing :4marth:'s spot. But I have to ask: where are :4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword: in there?
The community at large has STILL not reached a universal consensus on tournament-standard builds, and given the lack of competitive use, there's not nearly enough data on even the most common builds to determine where they stand among other characters. And it will continue to be that way until a major patch comes in and changes the UI for Mii customization, or a Switch version gets released with those changes.
 
Well, I certainly agree with :4lucina: sharing :4marth:'s spot. But I have to ask: where are :4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword: in there?
In the first 15 seconds of the video, at the bottom there is a caption which explains why he didn't include mii's. Basically he didn't have enough information to rank them, so he didn't want to falsely rank them with limited info.
 
In the first 15 seconds of the video, at the bottom there is a caption which explains why he didn't include mii's. Basically he didn't have enough information to rank them, so he didn't want to falsely rank them with limited info.
Well, when you're the only character who's restricted or outright banned [unfairly and without proper testing], you end up not having anyone play you. I'm surprised these characters are the only ones who can be banned at tournaments, since you'd think way back, Pre-Patch Rosalina, Sheik, Diddy or Bayonetta (in their respective versions) would have been banned first.

But nah, those Miis. They're too broken or polarizing to be played in any way that could benefit them. Naw, let's just make them all outright unusable or ban them entirely, since we're such a great community.

TL;DR the community shot down any chance of the Mii Fighters being relevant.
 
Smash is the only community where there is people who INSIST for years to have create-a-fighter characters legal in tourneys....
No wonder other communities insist in making fun of us.
 
Well, I don't understand why people are babying about the tier list. Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with my mains where they are. It makes sense, and I understand that some are hard to control, but the amount of time you put into them doesn't exactly change their tier classification. I love the tier list how it is, and I don't mind if people think otherwise.
 
Lol, I remember back when Cloud first launched and people were saying, "There's no way Cloud is above mid tier, he can't even recover." I still think that Cloud is better than Bayonetta in some match ups, but #2 is a good spot.
 
Lol, I remember back when Cloud first launched and people were saying, "There's no way Cloud is above mid tier, he can't even recover." I still think that Cloud is better than Bayonetta in some match ups, but #2 is a good spot.
Cloud is pretty overrated m8
 
Yoshi, Roy, Kirby and Corrin seem too low while Link, Robin (seriously above Megaman and Corrin?) and Charizard got some big boosts for some reason. What is this tier list?
 
In my opinion i belive:4marth: and :4lucina: shouldn't be on same spot, that's for sure. I strongly believe :4marth: overall is superior to :4lucina:, even recognizing :4lucina: would benefit more than :4marth: on very specific situations. Despite that, the key factors are: 1-:4marth:'s range is slighty superior than :4lucina:'s, his tipper hitbox is the reason. Having more range is a huge factor, doesnt matter if is a tiny bit. (Many people dont know this, but even some moves like :4marth:'s Fsmash reaches the lower platforms on battlefield, but :4lucina:'s one doesnt) 2- :4marth:'s sourspot actually benefits his moveset in many situations, leading to combos and even kill setups. :4lucina:'s higher natural knockback is actually bad because it actually makes it impossible to combo characters that :4marth: actually can. 3 - :4marth:'s shield breaker is arguably better than :4lucina:'s. It has more range, pushback on tipper more and shield damage itself. That factor alongside with :4marth:'s tipper properties and on a broken shield situation can score a kill much easier than :4lucina:'s thanks to greater sinergy.

:4lucina: has her own advantages as well, like her Upsmash being better than:4marth:'s and serves as a good out of shield option. She's also better on doubles than :4marth: (debatable) due to the fact she will rack up more damage, great kill power without relying tipper and precision factors which is way more harder to achieve than singles.

:4mewtwo: should be ahead :4lucario: and:4ryu:, based on results.:4luigi: should be above:4ryu: as well, and the both as gatekeepers from Top tier. :4corrinf: should be above :4tlink:, from 27 to 23. :4charizard: is too high, should be below:4samus: imo. :4wario: and :4bowserjr: should be definitelly higher.
 
Last edited:
In my opinion i belive:4marth: and :4lucina: shouldn't be on same spot, that's for sure. I strongly believe :4marth: overall is superior to :4lucina:, even recognizing :4lucina: would benefit more than :4marth: on very specific situations. Despite that, the key factors are: 1-:4marth:'s range is slighty superior than :4lucina:'s, his tipper hitbox is the reason. Having more range is a huge factor, doesnt matter if is a tiny bit. (Many people dont know this, but even some moves like :4marth:'s Fsmash reaches the lower platforms on battlefield, but :4lucina:'s one doesnt) 2- :4marth:'s sourspot actually benefits his moveset in many situations, leading to combos and even kill setups. :4lucina:'s higher natural knockback is actually bad because it actually makes it impossible to combo characters that :4marth: actually can. 3 - :4marth:'s shield breaker is arguably better than :4lucina:'s. It has more range, pushback on tipper more and shield damage itself. That factor alongside with :4marth:'s tipper properties and on a broken shield situation can score a kill much easier than :4lucina:'s thanks to greater sinergy.

:4lucina: has her own advantages as well, like her Upsmash being better than:4marth:'s and serves as a good out of shield option. She's also better on doubles than :4marth: (debatable) due to the fact she will rack up more damage,
Marth's range advantage is actually borderline non-existant.
That whole "Marth can reach BF's lower platforms while Lucina can't with FSmash" is a myth that has gone extremely out of hand. Marth can very rarely get an FSmash in the platform in the first place, because the spacing required is extremely precise and specific, and Lucina can actually also get the hit in the platform much in the same way.
The "Marth gets combos and kill setups Lucina doesn't" argument is null because the opposite is true as well. Lucina gets combos and kill setups Marth doesn't. Marth has Jab>FTilt, Lucina has a much better Jab>Dolphin Slash. Fair>Fair and Bair>Fair with Lucina true combos far more reliably than Marth's. Lucina has Nair1>FSmash. Things like that.
Your third point actually kind of seems like a mess. Marth's Shield Breaker doesn't really have more range than Lucina's, the Shield Pushback is irrelevant because the move is completely unsafe on shield no matter what (it's also barely more), and I've seen some people make tests and apparently the only difference between Marth's Tipper SB, Lucina's SB and Marth's Sour SB for Shield Damage is that each breakes Shields one frame earlier than the other. I actually have never seen a single instance where Marth got a Shield Breaker where Lucina couldn't have gotten it as well, and vice-versa.
And when it comes to kill power, if your enemy is a Midweight and they're over 35% when they get their shield broken, they're equally dead facing off against both of them.
 
Well, when you're the only character who's restricted or outright banned [unfairly and without proper testing], you end up not having anyone play you. I'm surprised these characters are the only ones who can be banned at tournaments, since you'd think way back, Pre-Patch Rosalina, Sheik, Diddy or Bayonetta (in their respective versions) would have been banned first.

But nah, those Miis. They're too broken or polarizing to be played in any way that could benefit them. Naw, let's just make them all outright unusable or ban them entirely, since we're such a great community.

TL;DR the community shot down any chance of the Mii Fighters being relevant.
Honestly will never get over this, as someone who actually enjoyed Mii swordfighter quite much. There was no reason, there was never a good argument yet people were too afraid to actually try or just backed down because other people said to. Literally, why? When (if, but most likely when) Smash 4 gets ported to Switch and inevitably still has Miis we better allow them straight away (default size, any moves marked in the name. why's it even a point of contention? It's such a simple got damb solution with no downsides) or I'm going to be one ticked off lady. I want to hear nothing about Palutena, she's unrelated. Nothing about customs, they're unrelated. GOD.

Smash is the only community where there is people who INSIST for years to have create-a-fighter characters legal in tourneys....
No wonder other communities insist in making fun of us.
Using the Guest or default sized Miis have the exact same properties, it is nowhere near comparable to create-a-fighter in other games. It's just banning for the sake of it, and the other communities make fun of Smash because of what Smash is. Not because of Miis, smh.
 
Last edited:
Dude your not even ranked, you have no valid opinion. I wouldn't either if I was making a statement like that though
Dude, I'm just watching all the people complain about this. It's so hilarious! And honestly, I'm fine with everyone in their respective places.
 
There is not much complaining though everytime a tier list is brought up there will be discussion and questionings, try to stay on subject.
As for the Miis the main problem is that there is no indicator if its average size and that is an issue since if youre even off a mark even by a bit it will make playing against them inconsistent due to how the weight and attack percents vary across sizes. For customs with Miis I dont think thats a good idea either, for preparing for certain characters you need to be able to know what you are going up against which is the main reason characters cant use customs anymore (besides the fact that some customs are way better options at times). I know the character is probaly around bottom tier but honestly what can you do?
 
Last edited:
Faclo is undeniably the best character in the game. His Balster is just too good, and don't even get me started on his Refelctor.
 
Mewtwo has good frame data and decent range on some attacks though its not that hard for follow ups and Lucario only makes up for his slowness with his rage and aura. I feel like its very close for these 2 but Mewtwo has more results, while Lucario has a really good ledge trap and a recovery that goes further at high percents its debatable whos better.
 
I've never seen anyone ever discussing whether Lucario is top 10 or not, though, so that tells everything you need to know....
 
Well it wasnt until UGC 2016 that Abadango took his first game off Zero and he wasnt even using Mewtwo probably playing a big factor in his experience to rank him lower while Tsu came very close at Frostbite 2017, I cant blame him if he decided to put Lucario higher.
 
Not sure I agree with Roy being higher than Ike. Outside of being faster, what does Roy really have? Ike is heavier, has a good combo game himself, has better recovery options, Rangell gives him greater reach then Roy's Sword of Seals, and Ike tends to have insanely good moves that can KO.

Why is Roy higher than Ike? Is there honestly anything Roy has to offer that Ike can't do better?
 
Top Bottom