Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
O.OGrab-game:
If ZSS attempts to grab and ends up missing, repay her kindness with a running USmash or a smash of your choice really. ZSS however has a CG on us using our Air Release to a certain percentage. It can put us in an awkward position but it's not the worst. I don't know if she can Air Release->Uair us, if she can, just....ouch.
I laughed pretty hard when I saw this earlier this morning before I went to sleep. I took the advice to say the least. ;PCan't we outcamp ZSS?
Don't wavebounced PK Fires or at least the backwards momentum PK Fires put us far enough away from her so we are safe?
DO NOT REPLY J, GO TO SLEEP
I agree, which is why I said:This MU isn't 0. No way in hell.
-1.
Now this is why I should refrain typing up MU stuff at like 4 in the morning. I have no clue why I put the "till certain percentages" because you can get it whenever and it can lead to a lost stock if the grab is gotten at the right percentage.O.O
That's not how air releases work lol. The trajectory is the same regardless of your damage. We can CG you at any percent.
Uair (10.x%) and fair (17% if both hits connect) are guaranteed, probably nair usmash and dash attack as well.
And is NOT 'extreme uair juggling bait' lol. I don't know where you get this from. What good ZSSs have you played?
Fairly certain you can usmash us OoS if we hit your shield with utilt
Why is Frigate a good stage for ZSS in this MU, if I may ask? And I would love to see your opinion/write-up NR because it's bound to be insightful to the MU since your years of experience with Galeon, "the best Lucas in the World". ^^Lylat isn't great for us in the MU.
Delphino, CS, and Frigate are all better.
Actually, the OP doesn't really seem to understand a LOT about the MU.
I'll write about it later.
Rainbow does not sound like a good idea since most of the match is fought in the air and ZSS can make us her pretty little ***** to put things bluntly on a stage like that.What do you guys think about rainbow cruise? We could run and send things at her I guess, I doubt it'd be ideal for either character.
I disagree on this. While her dair may be bad, she still has great aerial mobility, a good fastfall, can land safely with bair and occasional fairs/nairs and can mix up landings with b-reversed lasers/sideBs.Uair juggling bait, as in, it is easier to get Uair off on ZSS and juggle her with multiple Uairs rather than others because of the fact of her Dair being terrible. She is more Uair bait when she is in the air then other characters.
Her utilt is -44 on block, and I remember being told that if Snake PSes the 2nd hit then he can fsmash us for it XDI'll check the frame data on your Usmash OoS from your Utilt.
Again, no experience in this MU, but I don't see either character getting gimped without some sort of hard read/huge mistake, unless we dsmash your tether and then spike/footstool you.I was wondering about Frigate too, wouldn't the stage set up gimps on her considering the stage flips a lot and her recovery is... well, it's good but it's pretty gimpable at times, but so is ours.
I went and got the frame data to show what I mean. I also brought up a video of Lucas' hitboxes (it's deceptively large from behind his head when he uses it). ^^I disagree on this. While her dair may be bad, she still has great aerial mobility, a good fastfall, can land safely with bair and occasional fairs/nairs and can mix up landings with b-reversed lasers/sideBs.
Though, to be fair, I don't know much about Lucas. Is his uair short enough (duration) to frame trap like Falco's uair, making it unsafe to airdodge through? Is his uair giganticly disjointed like ZSS'? If so I would understand, but otherwise I'm not seeing it.
O_OInfinite said:Her utilt is -44 on block, and I remember being told that if Snake PSes the 2nd hit then he can fsmash us for it XD
So assuming that's true (and it came from the dude on the ZSS boards that seems to know everything about frame data...), I imagine Lucas can AT LEAST fsmash, which is good enough considering ZSS weighs like 2 lbs.
46 frames with no IASA frames and having a slower fastfall than ZSS and having a slowly-rising DJ...I'm still not seeing it. I mean obviously you're going to hit ZSS with it eventually, I'm just saying it's an exaggeration to call her "extreme uair juggling bait" simply because she has a bad dair.I went and got the frame data to show what I mean. I also brought up a video of Lucas' hitboxes (it's deceptively large from behind his head when he uses it). ^^
U-air
Duration:
Animation Length: 46
IASA: n/a
Start-Up: 1-4
Hit On: 5-10
Cool Down: 11-46
Autocancel: 1
Autocancel: 24-∞
Landing Lag: 12
~
Hitbox:
Damage: 13
Direction: 62
BKB: A
KBG: 64
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 10
Shield Stun: 4
Advantage: -40
Autocancel Advantage: -18
http://www.youtube.com/v/lOtwomIykVE - (Around 1:55 is what you are looking for) Lucas has a good time juggling characters with less than average Dairs and the like.