DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,302
I probably use more ZSS now than ICs (since I use pretty much only her in doubles and also in some singles games)
I'm trying to put together a guide to give to my teammates on how to make specific teams work
Prior to Whobo, I put together a writeup about some general ZSS thoughts in doubles as well as a long list of Snake/ZSS specific team ideas.
If anyone wanted to help me do a Lucas/Ness/Game and Watch/MK/Whatever other character that would be hype
My Write up:
General Doubles Rules
A. It is to our advantage to engage in a 2v1. It is to our disadvantage to engage in a 1v1 or 1v2
B. It is to our advantage to retain stage control
C. Characters take longer times to recover as their damage percentage rises. Longer recovery times leads to inherently greater difficulty retaining stage control
D. It is to our advantage to remove our opponent’s stocks as quickly as possible in terms of percent as long as a stock removing trade does not entail losing the 2v1 advantage
E. Letting the team member with the lower percentage dictate the flow of engagement artificially increases the stage presence of the team member with a higher percentage
F. In recovery state, assume your teammate needs help unless called off (a good way to remain safe while helping your teammate recover is to just stand by the ledge while shielding.)
G. Communication and familiarity are key
H. We enter this team with the preemptive agreement that we are sorry for any unintentional team attacks
General Flow of Doubles:
1. 2v1 Opponent A until he is at higher percents
2. Through process of hitting Opponent A, his high percents send him out of the engagement and into recovery state.
3. Press Advantage to 2v1 Opponent B to rack damage. Both opponents are now in elevated percents
4. Either Opponent X is hit out of engagement due to high percents forcing lost stage control.
5. 2v1 Opponent Y to achieve safe kill option
6. 2v1 Opponent X for engagement removing option first, kill option second
7. 2v1 respawned opponent Y to wrack percent
8. Repeat process until only one remains
9. Forced Ground Break grab release 2v1 to kill
10. If failed, 1v1 with removed teammate acting as coach
(MJG Commentary: You can put this wherever you see fit: Force opponents in the middle of the stage to help apply pressure. Some teams like diddy/snake and snake/ZSS have advantages either way. They can really keep their opponents out and pressured for various amounts of time if they are in the middle of the stage and pushing outward)
Communication words:
You – Indicates you want teammate to follow up or take ledge. Sometimes followed by option you want teammate to do.
Mine – Indicates to teammate you want to follow up or take ledge. Sometimes followed by option you want teammate to do.
Throw – Indicates to teammate you are throwing opponent towards them or you want teammate to throw opponent towards you
Safe/Okay – Does not need help when in guard break state. Better than reverse scenario of calling for help as it does not alert other team they are in vulnerable state if they don’t already know
*Note: The words are designed to be one syllable and clear in meaning while sounding different from the others.
(Those are all pretty good communication rules to go by. Something that might help Is to have a set word that only you and you teammate will know about. It will throw the other team off temporarily and your teammate will know what to do)
Generic ZSS/Snake Notes:
The team gets extremely high rewards off of ZSS Dsmash, ZSS Grab, and Snake Grab. Snake’s ground zoning is superior, while ZSS’s juggle game is superior. ZSS’s speed and range allows for her to use options to cover snake’s weaknesses in landing. Snakes grenade / projectile game and ground zoning help get opponent’s off the ground, which lends itself towards ZSS strength of juggling. ZSS’s ability to hold stocks comes from her superior mobility. Bair and Plasma whip allow her to play hit and run fairly safely even at high percents. Snake’s weight and Nade trade anti-juggling allow him to hold stocks or do damage while holding stocks. ZSS tether grab allows her to try to grab people within the reach of nades while not risking getting naded. By in large snake will do most of the killing since nearly all of his options kill before ZSS’s will kill. As far as roles go, ZSS’s job is to put in significant damage without dying (putting in 350-450 damage against 3 stocks, 0-2 kills) and to setup snake’s kills. Snake’s role is to put in kills without dying (putting in 4-6 kills against 2 stocks) and to hold stocks to setup ZSS to do damage. Generally we don’t want to average more than 650 damage a game as a team as our goal is to score early kills through multiple setups. Of course, this goal is secondary to holding stocks.
Camping walls
- ZSS on Platform above Snake Throwing out Dsmash while Snake waits or item throws grenades. In order to get around this wall, enemies must either be short enough to get underneath it to avoid dsmash about half the cast. Go above it, which puts them into ZSS Uair walling. Go through it due via outcamping this position or error by ZSS/Snake team (poor nade timing is usually the culprit for why this collapses)
- Snake take lead, ZSS follows behind: Generally done if opposing team members jumps in air to get around first wall so ZSS can use platforms to cover Uair game
- ZSS grounded wall (dsmash ,paralyze, plasma whip mixup) while snake lobs nades over: generally done if opposing team is too short to be effected by first wall or not platforms available
Working from Grab
Snake Grabs, ZSS Free to Act:
Forced Ground Break – most time, guaranteed followup
Close Quarters
- Dsmash: standard option as it leads to heaviest follow ups with least vulnerability including grab release > ZSS Dsmash kill loop
- Dtilt – Use as a quick “hit away” follow up if Dsmash isn’t possible
From run
- Grab – Used to followup to setup for heavy punish from run
- Plasma Whip – Used as quick “hit away” follow up if Grab is not possible from a distance
From Landing
- Paraylzer – Used to follow up to setup for heavy punishes from the air regardless of distance
- Plasma Whip – Same as from run only when aerial
- Aerial – Quick hit version for closer quarters landing. Will be Bair or Nair
Dthrow – less time consuming than forced ground break, quasi-guaranteed followup
- Dsmash : ZSS will attempt to cover one side of options. For example if ZSS is behind Snake, She will charge dsmash the roll behind option from tech chase. If she is in front of snake, she will attempt to stand far enough away to cover both roll away and getup options. However, in the case of the front, it is usually better to put the opponent into a vulnerable state via forced ground break if time permits. It’s actually relatively difficult to time a Dsmash on an opponent being Dthrown because you can’t Dsmash someone still in throw animation.
- Plasma Whip – If ZSS spacing is immaculate, I can follow up Dthrow from a distance with plasma whip. However this is difficult and runs the risk of hitting the snake player. Should only be done if opponent teammate is pressuring to cover his teammate
- Dtilt – Close quarters version of Plasma Whip. Less risk of hitting snake player, however less heavy follow up. Use if snake must immediately engage opponent’s teammate and ZSS can’t get there in time
(MJG Commentary: It is ok for you to allow yourself to be hit if your outcome from the team combo benefits the team pretty well. A character like snake can afford to take the hit and if getting a heavy follow up means that snake will take some damage with the possibility of killing your opponent, then it is well worth the trade imo. This isn’t the same scenario but when I am teaming with Kain, he will Down Throw his opponents most of the time if I am near him since we benefit a lot more from our combo. Wolf also has a hitbox on his down throw. So we are lucky in that aspect)
-
- Any other options are better for Snake to follow up on his own with Dthrow
Bthrow /Fthrow- less time consuming than dthrow, light follow up
- ZSS player will assume FGB or Dthrow will occur unless snake player communicates throw with word “throw”
- ZSS will follow up with Aerial if possible for hit away to tack on damage and facilitate 2v1 of teammate
- If aerial is not possible, use to throw opponent off stage (or away from their teammate) to facilitate 2v1 of teammate
- Avoid throwing opponent at your own teammate if own teammate is near blast zone as it leads to momentum cancelling kills
Character/spacing dependent Aerial Grab Break and Uthrow:
- Generally avoid, but ZSS can follow up with Aerial or Dsmash on a platform
ZSS Grabs, Snake is free to act:
Force Ground Break
- Fsmash for early
- Utilt for kill
- Jab > ftilt one > ftilt two
- Ftilt one > ftilt two
- Grab for ZSS punish setup or Dsmash Grab kill loop
- C4 Sticky/C4 explosion
Fthrow/Bthrow – Have a slightly higher knockback angle than Ground Break. Called for followup with word “throw”
- Utilt for Kill
- SH Bair for Horizontal knock back
- SH Uair for vertical knockback
Rule of thumb: If Snake is in front of ZSS, she will try to force ground break if there is time. If Snake is behind ZSS or there is not enough time to safely FGB with snake in front of her, she will call for follow up saying “throw”. If Snake is not close enough for followup, she will throw opponent into area with greatest recovery time threshold for thrown opponent
Notes:
The goal of the ZSS is grab is to let snake punish the opponent heavily. The heaviest punish in terms of time efficiency would be an Fsmash Kill, so if this option is possible for the Snake it should be taken without question. If time is not a concern such as in end game 2v1, if the opponent is caught between the two teammates a grab should mean a stock. If ZSS grabs, she should forced ground break to the Snake for a grab at low percents. This should be followed by a snake forced ground break to Zamus Dsmash loop. If neither of those options are safe, then the option that puts the opponent into the longest recovery time threshold (furthest away from the engagement) should be taken even if it means sacrificing 5-10% of damage since the separation will allow the team to facilitate 2v1 tactics. Make sure to call for Fthrow/Bthrow follow-ups by saying “Throw” before you throw the opponent as best as possible. At the same time, you can call for a teammate that you are ready for a follow up by stating “throw”.
Following up from ZSS Dsmash:
The ZSS Dsmash is time based (mashing does not help an opponent get out of it). The stun time is similar to knockback. As the move hits at higher percents, the stun time is longer. As the move stales, the stun time is shorter in comparison to a fresh dsmash at similar percents.
ZSS Solo Options (after initial dsmash)-
At low percents:
- Dsmash lock (character dependent) – called for by saying “lock”
- Dsmash > Dash Attack > Utilt
- Dsmash > Fair
- Grab
- Footstool
- Flip Kick
At mid percents:
- Dsmash > Aerial
- Dsmash > Grab
- Grab
- Foostool
- Flip Kick
At high percents:
- Dsmash > Dsmash > Uair (Kill)
- Dsmash > Second Hit Forward Air (Kill)
- Dsmash > Bair (Kill)
- Plasma Whip (Kill)
- Flip Kick(Kill)
- Footstool
Snake follow-ups:
Low Percents:
- Grab
- C4 Sticky
- Jab one (if ZSS sets up with a footstool)
- Ftilt one
- Utilt
- Aerial
Mid Percents:
- Grab
- C4 Sticky > ZSS Uair > C4 explosion (kill)
- Fsmash (kill)
- ZSS Footstool > Jab One > Fsmash (Kill)
High Percents:
- Foostool > C4 > Aerial (kill)
- Utilt (kill)
- Forward Air Non Meteor hit box (Kill)
- Grab
For the most part, ZSS’s own follow-ups are probably safer to use than Snake’s at low percents. The Dsmash stun window is too small and Dsmash’s hit box is deceptively large. To mitigate risks, we’ll assume the ZSS is going to do the follow up solo but will call for snake by saying “You”. A situation that would typically call for snake follow-ups at low percents would be if the opponent’s teammate is putting disruptive pressure on. At mid to high percents, ZSS can use footstool options to allow snake extra time to get into position to setup for kill. This will be called for by snake player if they feel they can get there in time and the opponent will be killed by saying “Mine + Stool”.
Shield Pressuring -
If Snake is hitting opponent with Ftilt 1 on shield, ZSS can from the other side time a Dtilt to force opponent to stay in shield long enough for Snake to option select Ftilt 2 or even Ftilt 1 again, resetting the advantaged situation.
Other options include Jab from both characters (although ZSS's Jab string doesn't connect on most characters). Grenades from Snake and Paralyzer/Plasma Whip from ZSS can also be used to trap opponents in shield.
If the opposing team breaks the shield of the snake player, ZSS can use Flip Jump to Flip Stool to bring someone out of shield daze state without putting on any damage while being fairly elusive.
Grenades Augmented Approaching for ZSS
Grenades by Snake are used by most teams to force an approach. However that’s boring as **** and a dead end if the other team can out camp. That being said, the ZSS can use grenades to facilitate approaching. ZSS can use grenades to force people into shield and then apply pressure via Grab, Plasma Whip, Paralyzer, and Dsmash. Especially when combining C4 Sticky with grabs, there’s potential for stealing some really quick kills with the following if opponents are caught napping:
Snake C4’s ZSS > Snake Lobs Nade over Zss’s head > ZSS uses paralyzer > ZSS grabs when opponent is caught in shield > C4 Transfers > ZSS Uthrow > Snake C4
ZSS can also glide toss grenades for a mobility boost. In theory, ZSS/Snake could do the following:
Snake C4 Stick y ZSS > Snake Nade Pull > Snake Shield Nade Strip > ZSS Item Pick up > Snake Nade Pull > ZSS Gllide toss approach > Snake Nade strip to drop nade on one side of opponent while ZSS crosses over > ZSS turn around followup (usually Dsmash or Pivot Grab) followed by C4 transfer or heavy followup > If Dsmash/Grab connect Snake follows up, if whiff Snake throws in remaining Nade as cover. Worst case scenario or if port priority dictates, Snake can blow up everything with C4.
What will happen in game flow is opponent’s will recognize we are going for C4 Sticky gimmicks and some might approach to disrupt them. If that’s the case, we should attempt to bait an approach since there is inherently less risk entailed. Either way we effectively control the pacing of the matchup when ahead or behind regardless of stock count.
I'm trying to put together a guide to give to my teammates on how to make specific teams work
Prior to Whobo, I put together a writeup about some general ZSS thoughts in doubles as well as a long list of Snake/ZSS specific team ideas.
If anyone wanted to help me do a Lucas/Ness/Game and Watch/MK/Whatever other character that would be hype
My Write up:
General Doubles Rules
A. It is to our advantage to engage in a 2v1. It is to our disadvantage to engage in a 1v1 or 1v2
B. It is to our advantage to retain stage control
C. Characters take longer times to recover as their damage percentage rises. Longer recovery times leads to inherently greater difficulty retaining stage control
D. It is to our advantage to remove our opponent’s stocks as quickly as possible in terms of percent as long as a stock removing trade does not entail losing the 2v1 advantage
E. Letting the team member with the lower percentage dictate the flow of engagement artificially increases the stage presence of the team member with a higher percentage
F. In recovery state, assume your teammate needs help unless called off (a good way to remain safe while helping your teammate recover is to just stand by the ledge while shielding.)
G. Communication and familiarity are key
H. We enter this team with the preemptive agreement that we are sorry for any unintentional team attacks
General Flow of Doubles:
1. 2v1 Opponent A until he is at higher percents
2. Through process of hitting Opponent A, his high percents send him out of the engagement and into recovery state.
3. Press Advantage to 2v1 Opponent B to rack damage. Both opponents are now in elevated percents
4. Either Opponent X is hit out of engagement due to high percents forcing lost stage control.
5. 2v1 Opponent Y to achieve safe kill option
6. 2v1 Opponent X for engagement removing option first, kill option second
7. 2v1 respawned opponent Y to wrack percent
8. Repeat process until only one remains
9. Forced Ground Break grab release 2v1 to kill
10. If failed, 1v1 with removed teammate acting as coach
(MJG Commentary: You can put this wherever you see fit: Force opponents in the middle of the stage to help apply pressure. Some teams like diddy/snake and snake/ZSS have advantages either way. They can really keep their opponents out and pressured for various amounts of time if they are in the middle of the stage and pushing outward)
Communication words:
You – Indicates you want teammate to follow up or take ledge. Sometimes followed by option you want teammate to do.
Mine – Indicates to teammate you want to follow up or take ledge. Sometimes followed by option you want teammate to do.
Throw – Indicates to teammate you are throwing opponent towards them or you want teammate to throw opponent towards you
Safe/Okay – Does not need help when in guard break state. Better than reverse scenario of calling for help as it does not alert other team they are in vulnerable state if they don’t already know
*Note: The words are designed to be one syllable and clear in meaning while sounding different from the others.
(Those are all pretty good communication rules to go by. Something that might help Is to have a set word that only you and you teammate will know about. It will throw the other team off temporarily and your teammate will know what to do)
Generic ZSS/Snake Notes:
The team gets extremely high rewards off of ZSS Dsmash, ZSS Grab, and Snake Grab. Snake’s ground zoning is superior, while ZSS’s juggle game is superior. ZSS’s speed and range allows for her to use options to cover snake’s weaknesses in landing. Snakes grenade / projectile game and ground zoning help get opponent’s off the ground, which lends itself towards ZSS strength of juggling. ZSS’s ability to hold stocks comes from her superior mobility. Bair and Plasma whip allow her to play hit and run fairly safely even at high percents. Snake’s weight and Nade trade anti-juggling allow him to hold stocks or do damage while holding stocks. ZSS tether grab allows her to try to grab people within the reach of nades while not risking getting naded. By in large snake will do most of the killing since nearly all of his options kill before ZSS’s will kill. As far as roles go, ZSS’s job is to put in significant damage without dying (putting in 350-450 damage against 3 stocks, 0-2 kills) and to setup snake’s kills. Snake’s role is to put in kills without dying (putting in 4-6 kills against 2 stocks) and to hold stocks to setup ZSS to do damage. Generally we don’t want to average more than 650 damage a game as a team as our goal is to score early kills through multiple setups. Of course, this goal is secondary to holding stocks.
Camping walls
- ZSS on Platform above Snake Throwing out Dsmash while Snake waits or item throws grenades. In order to get around this wall, enemies must either be short enough to get underneath it to avoid dsmash about half the cast. Go above it, which puts them into ZSS Uair walling. Go through it due via outcamping this position or error by ZSS/Snake team (poor nade timing is usually the culprit for why this collapses)
- Snake take lead, ZSS follows behind: Generally done if opposing team members jumps in air to get around first wall so ZSS can use platforms to cover Uair game
- ZSS grounded wall (dsmash ,paralyze, plasma whip mixup) while snake lobs nades over: generally done if opposing team is too short to be effected by first wall or not platforms available
Working from Grab
Snake Grabs, ZSS Free to Act:
Forced Ground Break – most time, guaranteed followup
Close Quarters
- Dsmash: standard option as it leads to heaviest follow ups with least vulnerability including grab release > ZSS Dsmash kill loop
- Dtilt – Use as a quick “hit away” follow up if Dsmash isn’t possible
From run
- Grab – Used to followup to setup for heavy punish from run
- Plasma Whip – Used as quick “hit away” follow up if Grab is not possible from a distance
From Landing
- Paraylzer – Used to follow up to setup for heavy punishes from the air regardless of distance
- Plasma Whip – Same as from run only when aerial
- Aerial – Quick hit version for closer quarters landing. Will be Bair or Nair
Dthrow – less time consuming than forced ground break, quasi-guaranteed followup
- Dsmash : ZSS will attempt to cover one side of options. For example if ZSS is behind Snake, She will charge dsmash the roll behind option from tech chase. If she is in front of snake, she will attempt to stand far enough away to cover both roll away and getup options. However, in the case of the front, it is usually better to put the opponent into a vulnerable state via forced ground break if time permits. It’s actually relatively difficult to time a Dsmash on an opponent being Dthrown because you can’t Dsmash someone still in throw animation.
- Plasma Whip – If ZSS spacing is immaculate, I can follow up Dthrow from a distance with plasma whip. However this is difficult and runs the risk of hitting the snake player. Should only be done if opponent teammate is pressuring to cover his teammate
- Dtilt – Close quarters version of Plasma Whip. Less risk of hitting snake player, however less heavy follow up. Use if snake must immediately engage opponent’s teammate and ZSS can’t get there in time
(MJG Commentary: It is ok for you to allow yourself to be hit if your outcome from the team combo benefits the team pretty well. A character like snake can afford to take the hit and if getting a heavy follow up means that snake will take some damage with the possibility of killing your opponent, then it is well worth the trade imo. This isn’t the same scenario but when I am teaming with Kain, he will Down Throw his opponents most of the time if I am near him since we benefit a lot more from our combo. Wolf also has a hitbox on his down throw. So we are lucky in that aspect)
-
- Any other options are better for Snake to follow up on his own with Dthrow
Bthrow /Fthrow- less time consuming than dthrow, light follow up
- ZSS player will assume FGB or Dthrow will occur unless snake player communicates throw with word “throw”
- ZSS will follow up with Aerial if possible for hit away to tack on damage and facilitate 2v1 of teammate
- If aerial is not possible, use to throw opponent off stage (or away from their teammate) to facilitate 2v1 of teammate
- Avoid throwing opponent at your own teammate if own teammate is near blast zone as it leads to momentum cancelling kills
Character/spacing dependent Aerial Grab Break and Uthrow:
- Generally avoid, but ZSS can follow up with Aerial or Dsmash on a platform
ZSS Grabs, Snake is free to act:
Force Ground Break
- Fsmash for early
- Utilt for kill
- Jab > ftilt one > ftilt two
- Ftilt one > ftilt two
- Grab for ZSS punish setup or Dsmash Grab kill loop
- C4 Sticky/C4 explosion
Fthrow/Bthrow – Have a slightly higher knockback angle than Ground Break. Called for followup with word “throw”
- Utilt for Kill
- SH Bair for Horizontal knock back
- SH Uair for vertical knockback
Rule of thumb: If Snake is in front of ZSS, she will try to force ground break if there is time. If Snake is behind ZSS or there is not enough time to safely FGB with snake in front of her, she will call for follow up saying “throw”. If Snake is not close enough for followup, she will throw opponent into area with greatest recovery time threshold for thrown opponent
Notes:
The goal of the ZSS is grab is to let snake punish the opponent heavily. The heaviest punish in terms of time efficiency would be an Fsmash Kill, so if this option is possible for the Snake it should be taken without question. If time is not a concern such as in end game 2v1, if the opponent is caught between the two teammates a grab should mean a stock. If ZSS grabs, she should forced ground break to the Snake for a grab at low percents. This should be followed by a snake forced ground break to Zamus Dsmash loop. If neither of those options are safe, then the option that puts the opponent into the longest recovery time threshold (furthest away from the engagement) should be taken even if it means sacrificing 5-10% of damage since the separation will allow the team to facilitate 2v1 tactics. Make sure to call for Fthrow/Bthrow follow-ups by saying “Throw” before you throw the opponent as best as possible. At the same time, you can call for a teammate that you are ready for a follow up by stating “throw”.
Following up from ZSS Dsmash:
The ZSS Dsmash is time based (mashing does not help an opponent get out of it). The stun time is similar to knockback. As the move hits at higher percents, the stun time is longer. As the move stales, the stun time is shorter in comparison to a fresh dsmash at similar percents.
ZSS Solo Options (after initial dsmash)-
At low percents:
- Dsmash lock (character dependent) – called for by saying “lock”
- Dsmash > Dash Attack > Utilt
- Dsmash > Fair
- Grab
- Footstool
- Flip Kick
At mid percents:
- Dsmash > Aerial
- Dsmash > Grab
- Grab
- Foostool
- Flip Kick
At high percents:
- Dsmash > Dsmash > Uair (Kill)
- Dsmash > Second Hit Forward Air (Kill)
- Dsmash > Bair (Kill)
- Plasma Whip (Kill)
- Flip Kick(Kill)
- Footstool
Snake follow-ups:
Low Percents:
- Grab
- C4 Sticky
- Jab one (if ZSS sets up with a footstool)
- Ftilt one
- Utilt
- Aerial
Mid Percents:
- Grab
- C4 Sticky > ZSS Uair > C4 explosion (kill)
- Fsmash (kill)
- ZSS Footstool > Jab One > Fsmash (Kill)
High Percents:
- Foostool > C4 > Aerial (kill)
- Utilt (kill)
- Forward Air Non Meteor hit box (Kill)
- Grab
For the most part, ZSS’s own follow-ups are probably safer to use than Snake’s at low percents. The Dsmash stun window is too small and Dsmash’s hit box is deceptively large. To mitigate risks, we’ll assume the ZSS is going to do the follow up solo but will call for snake by saying “You”. A situation that would typically call for snake follow-ups at low percents would be if the opponent’s teammate is putting disruptive pressure on. At mid to high percents, ZSS can use footstool options to allow snake extra time to get into position to setup for kill. This will be called for by snake player if they feel they can get there in time and the opponent will be killed by saying “Mine + Stool”.
Shield Pressuring -
If Snake is hitting opponent with Ftilt 1 on shield, ZSS can from the other side time a Dtilt to force opponent to stay in shield long enough for Snake to option select Ftilt 2 or even Ftilt 1 again, resetting the advantaged situation.
Other options include Jab from both characters (although ZSS's Jab string doesn't connect on most characters). Grenades from Snake and Paralyzer/Plasma Whip from ZSS can also be used to trap opponents in shield.
If the opposing team breaks the shield of the snake player, ZSS can use Flip Jump to Flip Stool to bring someone out of shield daze state without putting on any damage while being fairly elusive.
Grenades Augmented Approaching for ZSS
Grenades by Snake are used by most teams to force an approach. However that’s boring as **** and a dead end if the other team can out camp. That being said, the ZSS can use grenades to facilitate approaching. ZSS can use grenades to force people into shield and then apply pressure via Grab, Plasma Whip, Paralyzer, and Dsmash. Especially when combining C4 Sticky with grabs, there’s potential for stealing some really quick kills with the following if opponents are caught napping:
Snake C4’s ZSS > Snake Lobs Nade over Zss’s head > ZSS uses paralyzer > ZSS grabs when opponent is caught in shield > C4 Transfers > ZSS Uthrow > Snake C4
ZSS can also glide toss grenades for a mobility boost. In theory, ZSS/Snake could do the following:
Snake C4 Stick y ZSS > Snake Nade Pull > Snake Shield Nade Strip > ZSS Item Pick up > Snake Nade Pull > ZSS Gllide toss approach > Snake Nade strip to drop nade on one side of opponent while ZSS crosses over > ZSS turn around followup (usually Dsmash or Pivot Grab) followed by C4 transfer or heavy followup > If Dsmash/Grab connect Snake follows up, if whiff Snake throws in remaining Nade as cover. Worst case scenario or if port priority dictates, Snake can blow up everything with C4.
What will happen in game flow is opponent’s will recognize we are going for C4 Sticky gimmicks and some might approach to disrupt them. If that’s the case, we should attempt to bait an approach since there is inherently less risk entailed. Either way we effectively control the pacing of the matchup when ahead or behind regardless of stock count.
![[FBC] Papa Mink](/data/avatars/l/166/166410.jpg?1363023093){kind=avatar}
I want to see this GnW Combo work!