Zero Suit Samus 1.1.5 changes

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Discuss all changes regarding ZSS here.

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-5-patch-notes.433162/

Changes confirmed so far according to the patch thread:

• Uair:
  • Damage: 8 -> 6.5
  • KBG: 110 -> 125
• Nair:
  • Damage: 10 -> 8
  • KBG: 80 -> 96
  • KB: 40 -> 38
  • Hitbox Size: Altered (approximately 1 unit less for all changes)
• Bthrow:
  • Damage: 4 -> 6
  • KBG: 25 -> 45
  • KB: 70 -> 72
• Dthrow:
  • Damage: 5 -> 3
  • KBG: 25 -> 60
  • KB: 100 -> 90
• Plasma Whip:
  • First Hit KB: 80 -> 100
  • Multihit:
    • Damage: .8 -> 1.2
    • KBG: 90 -> 70
    • Hitbox Sizes: Altered (exact values unknown)
  • Final Hit:
    • Damage: 6 -> 7.5
    • Hitbox Size: Altered (exact values unknown)
• Normal/Dash/Pivot Grab Last Active Frame: 29F -> 25F

 

[AstroCRiS]

alright, so my brother lost my copy of smash 4... sigh... how bad is it guys? Is it bad at all? What's Nairo saying??? I NEED ANSWERS FOR I CANNOT TEST THIS MYSELF!!!

 

[Quantumpen]

She's still good. The knockback changes to her aerials made her gimpy boostkick combo more difficult to land -- especially against lightweights. It might still be possible but it's a lot less consistent than it was.

That's only a small part of what made ZSS good though. She's still very strong.

 

[AstroCRiS]

She's still good. The knockback changes to her aerials made her gimpy boostkick combo more difficult to land -- especially against lightweights. It might still be possible but it's a lot less consistent than it was.

That's only a small part of what made ZSS good though. She's still very strong.

If I can still combo into Flip Kick, then I'm cool with that. But Uair juggling was an essential part of Zss gameplay so I'm worrying.

 

[pichuthedk]

If I can still combo into Flip Kick, then I'm cool with that. But Uair juggling was an essential part of Zss gameplay so I'm worrying.

From what I've been hearing nair -> flip kick no longer really works at low %s but is probably at higher % s and obviously since back throw -> flip kick was always a di mixup it's now even less likely.....

Maybe we can start trying to down throw -> flip kick when near the ledge now.

 

[andrebound]

Nair to flip kick spike works roughly 10% later if I'm not mistaken and it seems to be a little more precise to land the spike hitbox. Also may be DI'able away now

The biggest impact of the nerfs is the 4 frames less of active grab frames, meaning we can't cover rolls or spotdodges as well.

And pretty sure down throw to up air doesn't true combo at higher percents now, think it stops working at about 130% w/ rage or so. Not 100% sure on the exact data on this though but it does seem like it doesn't work as high percents as it did pre patch.
It becomes a 50/50 of immediate up air or wait for airdodge up air.

 

[Bowserboy3]

The biggest impact of the nerfs is the 4 frames less of active grab frames, meaning we can't cover rolls or spotdodges as well.

And pretty sure down throw to up air doesn't true combo at higher percents now, think it stops working at about 130% w/ rage or so. Not 100% sure on the exact data on this though but it does seem like it doesn't work as high percents as it did pre patch.
It becomes a 50/50 of immediate up air or wait for airdodge up air.

I have had Dthrow to Uair true combo and KO at around 130%. However, this was with a bit of rage, and it was on Town and City, so without rage, or on a stage with a higher celing, I am unsure...

However, I do have a friend coming round tomorrow, and I do have a few things I want to test with the characters I use. With ZSS being one of them, I will test with him this.

 

[pichuthedk]

Nair to flip kick spike works roughly 10% later if I'm not mistaken and it seems to be a little more precise to land the spike hitbox. Also may be DI'able away now

The biggest impact of the nerfs is the 4 frames less of active grab frames, meaning we can't cover rolls or spotdodges as well.

And pretty sure down throw to up air doesn't true combo at higher percents now, think it stops working at about 130% w/ rage or so. Not 100% sure on the exact data on this though but it does seem like it doesn't work as high percents as it did pre patch.
It becomes a 50/50 of immediate up air or wait for airdodge up air.

What it seems to be , Although purely speculation at this point on my part.
The knock back growth that they gave down through makes it easier for players to DI away as opposed to pre patch.
I can't quite recall which character it was but I swear I literally down threw them and mentally felt like they had Full hopped from the ground away from me as i saw them in tumble travel so far away from me that i didn't bother with trying to up air them.

 

[skoolzout1]

What it seems to be , Although purely speculation at this point on my part.
The knock back growth that they gave down through makes it easier for players to DI away as opposed to pre patch.
I can't quite recall which character it was but I swear I literally down threw them and mentally felt like they had Full hopped from the ground away from me as i saw them in tumble travel so far away from me that i didn't bother with trying to up air them.

I've noticed this too. I've tested on mario with no DI pre patch and post patch and its evident (at least with no DI) that down throw double jump up air kill is still very possible and is even easier than before if they don't DI and kills 9 percent earlier in fact on mario. However I've noticed also that DI'ing away is much more potent. At high percents you really can't get anything if they Di away. Although, if people don't know this, you could still get an air dodge read.

 

[pichuthedk]

I've noticed this too. I've tested on mario with no DI pre patch and post patch and its evident (at least with no DI) that down throw double jump up air kill is still very possible and is even easier than before if they don't DI and kills 9 percent earlier in fact on mario. However I've noticed also that DI'ing away is much more potent. At high percents you really can't get anything if they Di away. Although, if people don't know this, you could still get an air dodge read.

I'm starting think things like full hop side b approaches can probably get some things at those later %'s, since players just tend to air dodge on reaction the slow windup might be us something.

Also I Donno about anyone else but I'm feeling like side b is literally close to half the potency ir had in brawl the ammount of knockback I see people have once they are at like 100% is kinda noticeable.

 

[skoolzout1]

I'm starting think things like full hop side b approaches can probably get some things at those later %'s, since players just tend to air dodge on reaction the slow windup might be us something.

Also I Donno about anyone else but I'm feeling like side b is literally close to half the potency ir had in brawl the ammount of knockback I see people have once they are at like 100% is kinda noticeable.

That could be a great idea, especially at the edge, since a down throw down B mixup may be super risky if you miss. I still don't no if ill incorporate side b as general option, I think its still too laggy to use in neutral or even to space around with. Zair beats it in every way in my opinion, except duration. One of the things i sort of liked about it was how it used to send people at a harsh downward angle when the final hits missed. I believe that is now gone or at lot more rare to happen.

 

[Jona Bon Boa]

How much did the nerf change her viability and character placement on the tier list? I've seen many people give a general placing for the other characters that got nerfed like sheik, mk and cloud but I haven't heard of anything regarding zss. Is she still top 3? top 5? top 10? And also, did nair to bair become a kill confirm in this patch or has it always been there? I don't play zss in smash 4 since I play her in Pm but I'm just curious about all of this.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

How much did the nerf change her viability and character placement on the tier list? I've seen many people give a general placing for the other characters that got nerfed like sheik, mk and cloud but I haven't heard of anything regarding zss. Is she still top 3? top 5? top 10? And also, did nair to bair become a kill confirm in this patch or has it always been there? I don't play zss in smash 4 since I play her in Pm but I'm just curious about all of this.

She is most likely still top 5.
The worst thing about the nerf is that she lost the dThrow > uAir kill confirm, which turned into a 50/50 instead (which I strangely never used in the first place).
Her damage output per combo is lower for obvious reasons, but her dThrow > BnB does work waaaaay longer now in return.
nAir > bAir was always a "kill confirm", but only with bad/no DI and/or near the ledge.

 

[Jona Bon Boa]

She is most likely still top 5.
The worst thing about the nerf is that she lost the dThrow > uAir kill confirm, which turned into a 50/50 instead (which I strangely never used in the first place).
Her damage output per combo is lower for obvious reasons, but her dThrow > BnB does work waaaaay longer now in return.
nAir > bAir was always a "kill confirm", but only with bad/no DI and/or near the ledge.

ah okay thanks!