• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Zero Suit Mechanics You May not Know About

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
Lately, I've been doing a lot reading and testing for Zero Suit, and I thought I'd compile a list of the many obscure mechanics she has. Hope you guys find this helpful! I'll start with the most well known, and lead into the most obscure.



1. Her down B can be cancelled by jump. For the first 15 frames, you cannot input any actions. On the 15th frame, you have 3 options: A. Divekick B. Flipstool (press b as you collide with a player) or C. Jump. That means you CANNOT up b out of down b until frame 55 unless you have your jump. Because of this and the fact you get down b back after being hit, ALWAYS down B first while recovering. If you down B and try to up B out of it, you will wind up lower than if you had just up B'd.

2. Her up B is unclankable. It cannot clank, and will go through any move in the game. This, combined with incredible priority make it beat out pretty much any move in the game if they are above you.

(this is where things start to get interesting)

3. Many of Zero Suit's moves have secondary hitboxes that can be used for DI mixups. These moves include : Nair, Bair, Upair, FSmash and up B. Zero suits nair goes slightly behind her. If you are going up to nair an opponent, you can go past them and nair with them behind you to send them the opposite direction,or forward if you connect it in the right spot. If you hit the sour spot of bair, you can bait them into DIing towards you to survive, and combo it into a sweetspot bair to kill. If you hit them with bair when they are in your body, but slightly on the wrong side it will hit them other way. If you hit Upair on the first hitbox (forward) it will hit them fairly far forward, if you hit them with the very top hitbox, it will hit them almost straight up and if you hit them with the last hitbox (as her flip completes) it will hit them down and back. This can be useful for gimping. As for Fsmash, if they are behind you, it will hit them almost straight up. It has relatively low knockback scaling, so it can be useful for comboing on faster falling characters at high percents (backwards fmash won't kill till 300%+). Finally, there's up B. It has a low, middle and top hitbox. If you hit the top one, it pulls your opponent down. If you hit the middle, it knocks them up and if you hit the low one, it hits them into the top one, which pulls them down.

4. Zero Suit's Nair is an "electric attack." That means it has similar properties to shine, giving it 1.5x freeze frames for the taget on hit, but no additional freeze frames for you. It is also an article, which just means the game generates it when you attack. It isn't like attacking with a sword or your foot. Before you nair, no whip, when you nair, whip. That gives it some funny properties. For one, there is no hurtbox in the whip, and it doesn't extend your hurtbox either. That means it will beat out almost any other aerial attack. It also used to be able to clank with ground moves, but they took that out in 3.0. Against grounded targets, it has similar properties to most aerials, but it cannot hit projectiles. It is still useful when combating grounded moves, because they have to hit through your nair into your body. This makes nair still beat out most ground moves.

5. For whatever reason, when you jump and use up B at the same time, it boosts you upwards significantly. I wish I had a video to demonstrate it, but I can't find one. Try it yourself, it's REALLY noticeable. When you single jump and up B (must be done very quickly), it looks like you double jumped, but you still have your double jump. If you do it with your double jump, it sends you just as high. If you do this on both jumps and down B at the peak, you can jump completely off the screen on FD.

6. If you shffl her forward air, and only hit the weak hit, it combos perfectly into down tilt. The weak hit as zero knockback scaling, so this can be done at literally any percent. You combo down tilt-dash attack-dash-short hop-fair-fastfall-L cancel-down tilt-nair etc. The main problem with this is that it is easy to shield or crouch cancel. If you hit it into shield, there is virtually no shield stun. If they don't see it coming, you can even land a forward or down smash off of it at higher percents if they don't use a quick aerial. The only consistent use I can see is hitting a free downtilt on an opponent who missed a tech after you nair or up B them.

7. When a character is holding ledge and Zero Suit is dangling beneath on her tether, when she tries to move up to ledge (or is forced to from waiting too long) she will helplessly jump up to stage, leaving her easy to punish. HOWEVER, though you can't preform any actions, you still have full movement control over your character. So, if you hold back on the control stick, you will fall right back onto ledge and grab it. If your opponent predicted this and didn't let go of ledge, you are not screwed. If you had double jump before you tethered ledge, you can either down b then double jump onto stage or double jump into nairing/upairing him off ledge before up Bing stage. If you don't, you can just tether ledge again and start over (you can tether ledge 2 times without touching the ground before it fails) or you can down B. If you down b at the right moment, you can flip stool him while he's on ledge, potentially gimping him and placing you safely on stage. If he sees that coming, you can still drift back and up B ledge and safely get onto stage. I have tested all of this and it works, but can be very hard to time.

8. (EDIT: Found this out as of 9/21) So, I'll admit I only noticed this from watching Oro play, but if you crawl backwards on ledge, it won't send you off stage (duh). However, if you just let go of the control stick, you will almost instantly grab ledge. This is an easier, safer and faster way of wavedashing onto ledge.

On a similar vein, if you dash attack and collide with the ledge, you won't be carried off stage (duh). However, if you hold the analog stick backwards, you'll quickly fall onto ledge. It's hard to find a consistent use for this trick, but I'm sure it has a time and place. It's also worth noting that this works on a few other characters.(Credit to Dr.Big72)

9. (Here is a tech I found out about a while ago, but forgot to add here.) ZSS down-b can be wall jump cancelled at any frame. This means that, off ledge, you can almost instantly wall jump off stage and do an invincible fair to edgeguard. Not only that, but you can do so while preserving your double jump.

10. If ZSS drops through a platform and does an upair within the first few frames of the drop, she will land back on the platform if she hits something. This seems to be particularly useful as an out of shield option on platforms since shield drop upair would come out faster than shield grab and would have much better punish potential. It could also be used as a good combo tool on platforms as well. I haven't played around with this tech much, so it might not be incredibly useful, but it certainly has potential.

EDIT: Updated for two new techs.
 
Last edited:

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
1,219
Location
Olympia, WA
NNID
Daftatt
Great post, however in 3.0 ZSS's neutral air was made to no longer clank.
 

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
Great post, however in 3.0 ZSS's neutral air was made to no longer clank.
Huh, you're right. The stuff about her nair was taken from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qANv0U9NJE4 Oro?! said it would clank, but I just tested it and I guess it doesn't. Could have sworn I've seen it clank elsewhere, but it doesn't even hit projectiles. Updated OP
 
Last edited:

GuyWhoUsesMarth

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 27, 2008
Messages
14
I find her tether is glitchy when recovering on FD when close to stage. I always end up doing the up-b spike. What options do I have if I'm on the side of FD? Or am I pretty much dead?
 

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
I find her tether is glitchy when recovering on FD when close to stage. I always end up doing the up-b spike. What options do I have if I'm on the side of FD? Or am I pretty much dead?
I've noticed that bug at all. Basically, never be directly under, or slightly past the edge of the stage on FD or your tether may fail.
 

Roche_CL

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
410
Side B has multiples hitboxes too, the tip will bring him to you while the mid part will push them away and its easily crouch cancellable. The interesting thing is that if its blocked it makes a mutihit move and pressures the shield.

Dsmash seems to have lots of IASA frames, I'd love if someone could confirm that.
How much startup frames does her jabs have? I find em so fast, like melee Luigi's jabs.
 

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
I don't think her dsmash has any IASA frames, but it only has 36 FAF, leaving only 12 frames of lag after the hitbox is over. It seems like the animation is over by the time you can act out of it, but I could be wrong. Her jab is frame 2, tied for the fastest in the game, however, they have LOTS of lag afterwards.

I was aware of the multiple hitboxes on side-b, but I didn't include it because it's not really a mixup. Either you hit sourspot into sweetspot (may as well of just hit sweet spot), hit sweetspot or you hit sourspot and they crouch cancel it.

You may like this: http://smashboards.com/threads/zero-suit-samus-frame-data-3-02.353343/
 
Last edited:

Dr.Big72

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
10
Location
planet earth
NNID
doctor_big72
I've come to notice a small quirk with her dash attack, when performing it running towards the ledge of the stage and as the animation ends as your legs is extended and you smash your stick to the other side you take ledge immediately. It might take some timing, as I could see that some would just do a running F-air off stage but after some practice you'll see it. Its definitely not amazing, but I've used it to bump someone off, get to ledge and attempt a speedy B-air or drop down Up-B spike. You are already ready to follow up the edgeguard. So far I've tried it on all the starters stages and it's works fine on all of them.
 

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
Huh. I just tried it and it does, indeed, work. The timing is actually pretty easy as well. However, I don't really see much use in it. I suppose it's easier than pivoting and wavedashing onto ledge, but it certainly isn't faster.
 

Erik Aldereguia

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
26
I guess this is a good place to post this but if someone disagrees they can direct me to the proper thread and that would be appreciated. So im newish to the game and I recently switched my mains to zss, and I got a lot of mileage out of fade-away sh reverse side-b, but i noticed sometimes when i did it i bounced back toward them. This took a lot of people off guard, including myself (lol). bit of a noob question here, but how exactly do you do that bounce consistently? it seems to be a useful mixup. and it only happened sometimes even when i was trying.
 

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
I guess this is a good place to post this but if someone disagrees they can direct me to the proper thread and that would be appreciated. So im newish to the game and I recently switched my mains to zss, and I got a lot of mileage out of fade-away sh reverse side-b, but i noticed sometimes when i did it i bounced back toward them. This took a lot of people off guard, including myself (lol). bit of a noob question here, but how exactly do you do that bounce consistently? it seems to be a useful mixup. and it only happened sometimes even when i was trying.
EDIT: I'm dumb, phootbag is right.
 
Last edited:

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
It's not actually frame perfect. I don't recall the precise frame data, but it's more than easy to perform it consistently. The term I always preferred for it was Recoil Special, but everyone seems to call it wavebounce these days. Basically, you perform the special opposite to the direction you want it to face, then immediately smash the control stick in the direction you want to be facing. You will reverse all momentum as long as the special being used retains momentum, and is not a Warlock/Falcon Punch. This can be done with any such special in any direction. For instance, you can jump towards an opponent, then bounce backwards while shooting a Paralyzer.
 

Erik Aldereguia

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
26
ah ok that explains a lot. i could do recoil specials easily with the blaster but thats not really useful. at all. can you wavebounce an up-b?
 

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
ah ok that explains a lot. i could do recoil specials easily with the blaster but thats not really useful. at all. can you wavebounce an up-b?
Yesh, it's much easier to do than the side B one too. All you have to do is slide the analog stick to whichever direction you reverse to while up-bing. It is very useful using up-b off stage for the meteor smash. You can go super deep off stage and burn your double jump, but if you reverse with it, you'll be able to recover easily. (Just don't use down-b or you'll die).

The other use, that I cannot consistently apply is for an aerial reaction. If you are dashing to up-b someone who is DIing to go left (away from you) and he double jumps right to avoid your up-b, you can reverse it if you predict him doing that. Other than that, I haven't found much use for it.

As for the side b one, I can't find any use in that at all. I find that good players never give you enough space to pull it off.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
Yep. Jump offstage and time a sh recoil plasma wire properly, and you can have the spike come out right over the ledge, then cancel with a ledge grab.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,545
The extra "freeze frames" (hitlag) on hit for Nair only apply to the enemy. Zero Suit Samus suffers 1.0x hitlag.

B-reverse is a 3 frame window.
 
Last edited:

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
The extra "freeze frames" (hitlag) on hit for Nair only apply to the enemy. Zero Suit Samus suffers 1.0x hitlag.

B-reverse is a 3 frame window.
Are you absolutely sure about that? It really feels like hitting the nair changes the L cancel timing more than hitting other aerials. From my research, I have seen nothing to suggest it would only effect the receiving character. It also seems to lag extra extra hard (for me) when I land a falcon sweetspot knee.
 
Last edited:

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
It has been such since Melee.
hrm, I found your post and it looks more backed up than the wiki articles I was using for, so I guess I'll change it in the OP. However, could you explain why it feels like other electric attacks have more hitlag than most? Is knee and lightning kick more laggy just because they are strong sweetspots?
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
Maybe I'm confusing it with dsmash, but my understanding is that it does not do a handful of the things all electric attacks do, like freezing Samus for 1.5x, or giving additional shieldhitlag.

Of course, that may be related to Nair's unique status as an article, and have nothing to do with its flags.
 

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
One big thing you forgot to mention was that Zero Suit Samus can change her entire move set by using her final smash.
I think just about everyone knows that, lol. I tried to limit the post to things I thought most people wouldn't know to keep it from being super long. Besides, hardly anyone plays with smashballs on unless they are just messing around.
 

Erik Aldereguia

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
26
WHOA NOWAI. i need go practice my final smashes now.

real talk tho, can you imagine getting cheesed for peach pulling out a smashball, getting it, then having no idea how to play samus. (terrible samus right here) actually, im not even sure, can peach still pull out a smash ball with her down b?

i guess for a more on-topic question, i've been trying out the up-b jump (ill call it the boost jump for ease of wordage, since idk if theres an official name). So i boost jump when recovering, the "pull back" animation lag is somewhat notable. i was having trouble trying to use up-b again in time to tether the stage but that might just be me being bad and messing up the timing. would this mechanic only be useful when trying to recover on stage or grab the ledge directly without the tether? (and possibly catch someone off guard trying to edgeguard you)
 

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
Up-b does have signficant lag, so you need to keep that in mind when using it. It is useful in three situations.

1. If you get knocked so far away, that you need to vertical boost to recover. You'll need to up-b boost significantly before you reach the stage.
2. If your opponent is jumping off to kill you, you can fast fall, almost all the way to the blast zone and up-b boost back up to recover.
3. If your opponent predicts you recovering low, you can up-b boost to go over top of him.

For all of these, you really need practice to get a feel for them. Also, grabbing ledge directly while recovering is almost always a bad idea.
 

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
Alright, finished updating for 3.5. Let me know if there is anything up there that needs fixing. Kinda sad that I had to remove 3 entries entirely... oh well, good thing I decided not to name the thread "10 mechanics you may not know about ZSS" lol
 
Last edited:

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
Only thing you missed was reverse fsmash KBG.

Other than continuing to use the word Transcendent. Unclankable pls.
What's wrong with that word? lol. I only used it for up-b, and I'm pretty sure it still is. Oh well, changed it to "Unclankable"

As for fsmash, I didn't really know exactly what changed. Is the KBG really that much higher? What should I make it say? I am not somewhere that I can test it atm.
 

pinkdeaf1

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Messages
805
Location
San Francisco
3DS FC
0387-9018-0614
Anyone one into the new chain grab zss has (note: must be run up -> jump cancel grab)? I'm not sure if it is di'able or not.
 

ThreeSided

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
600
Location
USA, CT
Anyone one into the new chain grab zss has (note: must be run up -> jump cancel grab)? I'm not sure if it is di'able or not.
Can't say I know what you're talking about. The only way I know of to chaingrab someone with the new throws is if they DI Dthrow toward you, and they'd literally have no reason to do that so it's only going to ever happen as a major mistake.
 

Foo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
1,207
Location
Commentatorland
Updated the OP with two new techs. The platform drop upair tech where you land on the platfrom and zss instantly being able to wall jump out of down-b.
 
Top Bottom