Social Zelda Social - Still the queen of Smash...and maybe queen of low tier for a decade, too. Shall we make it two?

[Lil Puddin]

So. Speaking of camping Daisy heauxes. Is there any real difference in terms of playstyle between Peach and Daisy? I love them both since they have the same energy (cute and relentless), but I'm not sure if I should be using them the same way OR use their moves at the same frequency.

Oh no sis that wasnt me yesterday, I was too busy losing my Elite status as Zelda getting man handled by IKEA. I think Zelda's bad in this game lol

She's in a much better place than before. Zelda is still reliant on people making mistakes and has slightly more speed to help capitalize on their mistakes (and the newer mechanics greatly favor her). She has more useful tools for forcing mistakes now... Buuuuut... All of her smash attacks, Phantom Knight, and Uair/Nair just don't cover enough space considering their speed compared to other similar powered moves. I hope they realize this and increase her hitboxes.

 

[StoicPhantom]

Yeah, I'm also considering looking into the whole Bluetooth adapter thing. A guy at the tournament had it, and apparently played with a Wii U Pro. Another guy made me aware of the possibility of input lag (given it's a controller hooked onto a Wiimote, in my case)... I'm sure I'll be fine. Didn't hear of any complications with it.

I think that if you care about the competitive aspect of the game, you should take it upon yourself to eventually get out there, more. You don't have to aim to be the very best to be a good player and enjoy the process. It feels really good to play different opponents and get better. I used to have a very mediocre loser mindset in which I would hope for my opponent to be bad for me to be able to win, but now I can only overcome myself by playing and trying to beat everyone.

Still think I could've done a decent bit better.

That's good that at least at that particular tournament, it was legal. I wasn't sure how something like that would be handled at a tournament. I kind of have to wonder how much the whole input lag thing is overblown. I understand if we were talking maybe 3-6 frames but half a frame or 1-2 frames or whatever it is doesn't seem like it would be perceptible.

I agree on the getting out there thing. Online has its drawbacks, even with a good connection, small differences in speed can still change things. My problem is I live a 4-6 hour drive from any real sort of civilization and have no local scene, due to being in a location where all young people move pretty quickly. That and I was born with several rare diseases, that make having any semblance of a normal life or schedule impossible. If it was just one or the other I could deal, but both together is pretty brutal. I have to travel once or twice a year for appointments and that's a pretty big ordeal so I don't travel otherwise. I've long since accepted my lot in life though and that I won't be able to do these kinds of things. Instead I think I'll just try to be the best online warrior and hopefully help improve the Zelda meta-game. These are pretty interesting prospects in their own right and it's not everyday you get to be at the forefront of a new Smash game. I was late to the party previously so it's fun to figure things out now while everything is so new. I'm almost having more fun learning the new aspects of Zelda than actually winning right now.

That being said though, if a tournament ever coincides with my yearly travels and I have time I'll see if I can go watch and get a feel if I can handle it. That way I can easily leave if I need to without any awkwardness. Probably not though because it doesn't take much if I'm out traveling to make me go downhill but that's alright.

Oh no sis that wasnt me yesterday, I was too busy losing my Elite status as Zelda getting man handled by IKEA. I think Zelda's bad in this game lol

I think I reached a major milestone yesterday in getting Ike to his last stock. Got KO'd by a dash attack at like 110 and knocked out of Elite, though. Phantom is really good at edgeguarding his recovery but that's our only saving grace it seems.

I don't think Zelda is a bad character. Rather other characters are a little ridiculous right now. I two-stocked this Wolf several times in a row until the actual Battlefield came up. It seems Battlefield is a little larger than other battlefields and that was enough to break my spacing bubble and allow Wolf to blitz all around the stage and two-stock me. Things went back to normal until another larger battlefield came up and the same thing happened. I finally SD'd after he blitzed me at the start on Suzaku and knocked me off early. I promptly rage-quit because I was tired of taking 70-80% just to get back on stage. Some characters seem to be able to cover all landing options with sheer speed. Maybe they will tweak the speed a little better in the future. Other than some characters I think Zelda has a potentially good match-up spread this time around. Just needs more practice and skill than a lot of characters to do well. Can't exactly spam moves like Dancing Blade all over and rack up the wins.

So. Speaking of camping Daisy heauxes. Is there any real difference in terms of playstyle between Peach and Daisy? I love them both since they have the same energy (cute and relentless), but I'm not sure if I should be using them the same way OR use their moves at the same frequency.

I didn't notice any. Obviously a Daisy main will be better able to answer though.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

So. Speaking of camping Daisy heauxes. Is there any real difference in terms of playstyle between Peach and Daisy? I love them both since they have the same energy (cute and relentless), but I'm not sure if I should be using them the same way OR use their moves at the same frequency.

Other than because Daisy is a little shorter than Peach so she might have lucina syndrome. (Slight range nerf) they are exactly the same. Some people say bomber is faster on Daisy but Peach's last longer but I dont think so or it's not enough to make them play any different.

She's in a much better place than before. Zelda is still reliant on people making mistakes and has slightly more speed to help capitalize on their mistakes (and the newer mechanics greatly favor her). She has more useful tools for forcing mistakes now... Buuuuut... All of her smash attacks, Phantom Knight, and Uair/Nair just don't cover enough space considering their speed compared to other similar powered moves. I hope they realize this and increase her hitboxes.

idon't think Zelda is a bad character. Rather other characters are a little ridiculous right now. I two-stocked this Wolf several times in a row until the actual Battlefield came up. It seems Battlefield is a little larger than other battlefields and that was enough to break my spacing bubble and allow Wolf to blitz all around the stage and two-stock me. Things went back to normal until another larger battlefield came up and the same thing happened. I finally SD'd after he blitzed me at the start on Suzaku and knocked me off early. I promptly rage-quit because I was tired of taking 70-80% just to get back on stage. Some characters seem to be able to cover all landing options with sheer speed. Maybe they will tweak the speed a little better in the future. Other than some characters I think Zelda has a potentially good match-up spread this time around. Just needs more practice and skill than a lot of characters to do well. Can't exactly spam moves like Dancing Blade all over and rack up the wins.

It may be I just need to let go of all the old Zelda things that I've been doing for the past 10 years and start fresh but yesterday it felt like all I could do effectively was run and camp. Like even trying to AA and out poke characters felt like a really big struggle and Zelda's weaknesses felt amplified. I think I just lost it at IKEA(not changing this as it felt like the couch was flying at me for 3 matches lol) so I probably just need to go back to the drawing board

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I think Zelda is amazing.

 

[Ffamran]

The recent trailer for V in Devil May Cry 5 showed off his gameplay more and he can shoot magic using his staff like the mages in Dragon's Dogma. He also has a lot of execution moves and probably context sensitive ones compared to the other characters. Along with his summons, I can see why the developers felt like V was going to break the game if not themselves with how difficult it would be to implement his gameplay and have it work and in a Devil May Cry game. V is probably the weirdest character in a hack 'n' slash game that I can think of. Sieg in Chaos Legion does come close, but Sieg can actively fight by using his sword while V's gameplay makes it look like he usually takes the backseat letting his summons do most of the work until his enemies are weak enough for him to finish him off.

Spoiler: V trailer scene

The trailer ends with a scene where V is standing over a bloodied and unconscious Dante and holding Sparda, the sword. Before that scene, V was talking about the sword and maybe part of his scenario is him trying to find it. V states that "If only [Dante] never existed" and prepares to stab Dante with Sparda while his Griffon summon who so far is the only summon who is shown talking, screams "No!" several times.

Some people think he might be trying to unlock some part of Dante's power, the other Devil Trigger form Dante was shown in another trailer, by stabbing him with Sparda because that's kind of what happened in DMC3 where Dante unlocked the ability to use Devil Trigger when Vergil stabbed Dante with Rebellion. His quote, however, has led people to think he has some kind of history with Dante where while he doesn't like Dante, he needs Dante's help.

V's new gameplay trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIHpt5ctBXU.

The theories on who V is in are getting really interesting. Early on, I think people speculated he was a depowered Vergil or the manifestation of Vergil's human side and now people think he might be related to Mundus either as V being Mundus himself, the son or a creation of Mundus like Trish being a creation of Mundus, or some wizard who delved too deep into demoniac magic and ended up being partially possessed or forced into a contract with Mundus. Some of the hints or evidence being that V's summons are Mundus's minions, Griffon, Nightmare, and Shadow, the title of his battle theme Crimson Cloud is what Mundus usually appeared as before revealing his other forms, and V upside does align with Mundus's three eyes. Also, I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but V is half of W and W upside is a M. People have been looking into his song's lyrics and figuring it might refer to Mundus as well and there might be a part that refers to the Sons of Sparda and how Mundus was revenge on them. Well, time will tell who and what V actually is.

As for FEH, well, that happened. Winter Cecilia throwing boots at people is the best thing ever and then there's the monsters of winter Ephraim and winter Fae. Winter Ephraim has a superboon in attack meaning he can have 45 base attack and winter Fae has 41 neutral base resistance. I wonder when we'll get someone like Arden, but instead of having 60 HP, they have like 60 attack, speed, or something stupid.

Spoiler: The 313th and 314th Summons

Spoiler: The 313th's stats

4* Effie #1: +HP, -Res.

5* F!Morgan: +Atk, -Spd. Remember when Blarserpent existed? Yeah, I don't think the developers do since we never got anyone with Rauthserpent or Gronnserpent.

4* Reinhardt: +HP, -Atk.

3* Serra: +Res, -Spd.

4* Virion: +Spd, -Atk.

Spoiler: The 314th's stats

4* Effie #2: neutral.

4* Jakob: +Res, -HP.

3* Priscilla: +Def, -Res.

4* Selena: +Res, -Def.

4* Soleil: +Res, -HP.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Oh, yeah. For the FEH guys out there.

Spoiler

Finally made it, this morning:

Took a bit longer than expected.

 

[StoicPhantom]

It may be I just need to let go of all the old Zelda things that I've been doing for the past 10 years and start fresh but yesterday it felt like all I could do effectively was run and camp. Like even trying to AA and out poke characters felt like a really big struggle and Zelda's weaknesses felt amplified. I think I just lost it at IKEA(not changing this as it felt like the couch was flying at me for 3 matches lol) so I probably just need to go back to the drawing board

Zelda's weaknesses have definitely been amplified. It's much harder getting back on stage like with that Wolf example. Defensive options have been nerfed and it's easier to be blitzed. Zelda still has a bit of a defensive base so it's a little harder for her to compete. Having said that though it's not impossible to play defense if that's your thing. It depends on the match-up on what form it will take but it's definitely there.

For short-range characters it's pretty easy to wall them out with Phantom. If say your fighting Falco or Kirby plant yourself in center stage and space around any aerial spamming attempts. They're fast and have little lag to them but lack range so be patient and punish any openings you see. Nair is a really good platform dog fighting tool and has the speed to combat a lot of non-disjointed aerials. Dance in and out of center stage to avoid any entrapment but try to keep it at all times. If they get in, Nayru's Love is a good panic tool and not a lot of things can deal with a properly timed Nayru. Once you manage to knock them near the ledge or offstage you can slowly move up and switch to Phantom. Barring reflectors short-ranged characters have difficulty dealing with Phantom at range. Use that to slowly rack up damage and wait for openings. Once you see an opening don't miss that chance and capitalize it to the fullest extent.

Don't be afraid to camp when you have the lead. That's when Zelda's base as a defensive character comes in and you can make them pay dearly for any ground they gain. You only need one solid hit to end everything so be patient and rack up damage in the meantime. If say, Kirby tries taking to the air, try to track where he is going and catch his landing or time an Up-air when he jumps to take advantage of the lag. Otherwise harass with Din's Fire and force a bad option/landing.

Speedy characters are a little difficult and I'm still experimenting with strategies but shift your idea of what camping is and try to keep moving and a step ahead at all times. Rather than stay in one area try to keep moving through the platforms and poking at them with Nair to discourage aerial charges. If they catch you on the ground Nayru will once again save the day and stuff any potential charges. Most speedy characters are light so focus on making them impatient and overextend then hit them with your best damage dealing attack available. Zelda is really annoying and campy so take full advantage of that and play mind games. Fast characters are oppressive but require playing with little mistakes and any slip-up mentally or physically will cost them. Make them misinput by constantly being a step ahead and causing them to need to go faster and work harder to catch you.

Ranged characters and characters with heavy disjoints are much harder to deal with. The only real advice I can give you currently is to play like a heavy and turtle till you get those big hits. Any ground you gain is big so don't miss a chance to throw out a Phantom and knock them back. Don't try to fight them on platforms rather keep on the ground and make them come to you. Use Phantom to wall them out and try to knock them off stage. DO NOT MISS AN EDGEGUARD. These characters are often heavy and you are not and the longer the match goes on the greater the chance they will be able to break through your defense and hit you with something powerful. The more lead you put between the better because it only takes one good hit to ensure you don't make it back to the stage.

Character and match-up knowledge is very important because who you play is going to determine what defense looks. Being good at edgeguarding and the advantage state is also important because Zelda doesn't get many chances at winning neutral. Pay close attention to your opponent's style because reads are important in order to get around speed and range differences. Zelda still plays a lot like she did in 4 just how it manifests looks a little different.

 

[WumboTheSecond]

In my highly unpopular opinion, the Twilight Princess design of the characters where the best

 

[HotSummer]

Is that a meme or a Zelda playstyle-guide?

As a fellow Zelda main, you already know the answer

And yeah, if there is a discord in honor of the most graceful queen ever, bring it on ! Or let's create one

 

[SoniCraft]

Hello everyone. Just wanted to introduce myself to the Zelda boards since it's becoming more and more likely that I'll be committing to her as a main in this game (she's just so darn cute). As a Villager player, the fully charged phantom reminds me a lot of villager's lloid, so I'm loving that change to the character. I feel like doing well with Zelda requires a lot of work and a true understanding of how to be good at the game, which also attracts me to her. Winning with her will be more satisfying than with, say, Inkling. I'm excited to help lab out Zelda's meta with y'all!

Characters I've been struggling with recently are the FE characters, and I'm not too sure why. Whenever I think about the matchups, they seem completely doable for Zelda, but playing them out is a different story. Ike's nair and fair are SO good, he can just SH and spam them and I can't punish them. I'm planning to learn how to parry those hits and give myself a little more punish room. I've fought a couple really good Robins online, and let me tell you, those players are SCARY. They really are tacticians! Every move has its use, and I found myself consistently outplayed by their accurate spacing and timing. Roy and Chrom I have trouble with online, but at my latest local, I played the winner of the tournament's Chrom and 2-stocked him, so that's something. Maybe the online delay favors those FE spammers, but with more precision, a Zelda can totally beat them.

We just don't have the luxury of throwing out super safe moves the whole match (something I definitely did with all my other mains in previous games), but I think that will make me a better player. With Zelda, you fight the player more than you fight the character, in my opinion. Learn their habits and rhythm, and you can work your (Hyrulian) magic. With all of our kill options, no match is completely out of reach!

One more thought. I fought a Snake online, and it was a BLAST (no pun intended). He kept camping me, as Snake does, and I would inch closer and closer, carefully reflecting and dodging the grenades and missiles that assaulted me. Then he'd try to bait me with a whiffed fsmash and punish with dtilt or uptilt, but once I caught onto that it was over for him. All you need to beat Snake is patience. You can reflect his ranged stuff, and if he comes close, make him feel the hurt. He's tall, so hitting lightning kick is no problem (unless he crouches), juggling him and gimping him is easy money since his air mobility is trash, and you can camp him with phantom if you feel like doing a camping war (fortunately I find those enjoyable). If Snake rises in popularity, I'll be confident in Zelda's chances.

 

[Rickster]

I'm really wanting to understand how Elite Smash even works. I keep seeing people all over say they get kicked out after losing, but it hasn't happened to me yet. I first got into elite at 800k GSP, and am currently at 1.6 mil. I've definitely lost to people, yet haven't been kicked out so idk what's up. Maybe it has something to do with win rate?

On another note, does anyone know how to get replays uploaded to youtube or whatever now? I'm collecting matches so I can show off how bonkers Zelda can be at times. Phantom is straight up oppressive to certain characters tbh and it's hilarious

 

[Nammy12]

I'm really wanting to understand how Elite Smash even works. I keep seeing people all over say they get kicked out after losing, but it hasn't happened to me yet. I first got into elite at 800k GSP, and am currently at 1.6 mil. I've definitely lost to people, yet haven't been kicked out so idk what's up. Maybe it has something to do with win rate?

On another note, does anyone know how to get replays uploaded to youtube or whatever now? I'm collecting matches so I can show off how bonkers Zelda can be at times. Phantom is straight up oppressive to certain characters tbh and it's hilarious

More people playing means higher gsp required to get in and kicked out. I think you get kicked out if you go below a certain amount.

They're probably locking uploading replays behind that smash world app.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

And yeah, if there is a discord in honor of the most graceful queen ever, bring it on ! Or let's create one

Long as you guys don't make a weeb hentai channel of Zelda, I'm in.

 

[StoicPhantom]

Hello everyone.

Hi.

Hello everyone. Just wanted to introduce myself to the Zelda boards since it's becoming more and more likely that I'll be committing to her as a main in this game (she's just so darn cute). As a Villager player, the fully charged phantom reminds me a lot of villager's lloid, so I'm loving that change to the character. I feel like doing well with Zelda requires a lot of work and a true understanding of how to be good at the game, which also attracts me to her. Winning with her will be more satisfying than with, say, Inkling. I'm excited to help lab out Zelda's meta with y'all!

Characters I've been struggling with recently are the FE characters, and I'm not too sure why. Whenever I think about the matchups, they seem completely doable for Zelda, but playing them out is a different story. Ike's nair and fair are SO good, he can just SH and spam them and I can't punish them. I'm planning to learn how to parry those hits and give myself a little more punish room. I've fought a couple really good Robins online, and let me tell you, those players are SCARY. They really are tacticians! Every move has its use, and I found myself consistently outplayed by their accurate spacing and timing. Roy and Chrom I have trouble with online, but at my latest local, I played the winner of the tournament's Chrom and 2-stocked him, so that's something. Maybe the online delay favors those FE spammers, but with more precision, a Zelda can totally beat them.

Ideally a Zelda would be able to wall a range character with projectiles and stuff a speedy character with her defensive moves. FE characters seem to have that balance of speed and range to throw a wrench in that plan. I think online has always favored sword characters given it's harder to micro space in lag. Just play patient and always try to stay just outside their range until you see an opening. Take advantage of their poor recovery and edgeguard them for easy kills. It's better to give up a little stage control than get hit because once you do, your not getting back to the ground.

As for Robin, their scary if you try to aggressively approach but their not without their flaws. Projectiles are mostly linear so simply hopping over them or reflecting them is an option. Thoron is much more powerful than in 4 but is much slower now. If your on the ball it can be reflected for big damage. Don't get caught in Arcfire as it's the new Arcthunder and will guarantee a combo for them. It doesn't activate on contact anymore so treat it like a regular projectile. Levin sword is really powerful now so definitely do not get hit but it can't be used at the start of the match for a while and has limited uses. Watch the meter above their name to see how many uses are remaining and see if you can bait them and make them burn through those uses. Their slow so once you get in, don't let up and continue comboing while avoiding Levin aerials. There is no hitbox on the top of their recovery so that makes for easy spikes. Just watch out because their recovery, Elwind, can now angle and they can make some tricky moves with it. Elwind has a small amount of uses so simply forcing them to use it over and over offstage will KO them. Zelda definitely has this match-up just don't get impatient or aggressive.

We just don't have the luxury of throwing out super safe moves the whole match (something I definitely did with all my other mains in previous games), but I think that will make me a better player. With Zelda, you fight the player more than you fight the character, in my opinion. Learn their habits and rhythm, and you can work your (Hyrulian) magic. With all of our kill options, no match is completely out of reach!

Pretty much. It's much easier said than done so pay attention to any little tricks and habits you can pick up about your opponent and their character.

One more thought. I fought a Snake online, and it was a BLAST (no pun intended). He kept camping me, as Snake does, and I would inch closer and closer, carefully reflecting and dodging the grenades and missiles that assaulted me. Then he'd try to bait me with a whiffed fsmash and punish with dtilt or uptilt, but once I caught onto that it was over for him. All you need to beat Snake is patience. You can reflect his ranged stuff, and if he comes close, make him feel the hurt. He's tall, so hitting lightning kick is no problem (unless he crouches), juggling him and gimping him is easy money since his air mobility is trash, and you can camp him with phantom if you feel like doing a camping war (fortunately I find those enjoyable). If Snake rises in popularity, I'll be confident in Zelda's chances.

You can also Up-B into slow projectile users like Snake while they're charging their projectiles. But yeah, Snake is an easy match-up for Zelda.

I'm really wanting to understand how Elite Smash even works. I keep seeing people all over say they get kicked out after losing, but it hasn't happened to me yet. I first got into elite at 800k GSP, and am currently at 1.6 mil. I've definitely lost to people, yet haven't been kicked out so idk what's up. Maybe it has something to do with win rate?

On another note, does anyone know how to get replays uploaded to youtube or whatever now? I'm collecting matches so I can show off how bonkers Zelda can be at times. Phantom is straight up oppressive to certain characters tbh and it's hilarious

I don't think it's as straightforward as you're better than __ number of people like it says. I noticed a trend where if I was close to another player it wouldn't go up or down much but if there was a large gap between GSP it would go up or down a lot regardless of if the winner was the greater or lesser. I think it depends on who you are matched with currently. Whether you run into a series of Wi-Fi players or bad match-ups or whether it's been smooth sailing. I can go pretty far in Elite until I run into the aforementioned and after a some losses I can be put just under the threshold for getting into Elite. I get back into it pretty quickly but it really depends on what I'm matched with most of the time.

As for replays I assume since you save the video to a microsd, you can then insert it into your PC/Laptop or a converter and go from there. I guess I don't know though. The bigger question for me is why you can choose between "Pretty" and "Duration". Does that mean you have to choose between having a bad quality video or not saving the entire video?

 

[Gay Ginger]

It may be I just need to let go of all the old Zelda things that I've been doing for the past 10 years and start fresh but yesterday it felt like all I could do effectively was run and camp. Like even trying to AA and out poke characters felt like a really big struggle and Zelda's weaknesses felt amplified.

I'm glad it's not just me feeling this way.

I'm finding it much harder to play Zelda's neutral game using anything other the Phantom. Part of it could be online lag, or it could be unfamiliarity with the new characters and/or balance changes to veteran fighters, but I've been struggling more than I thought I would.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I'm glad it's not just me feeling this way.

I'm finding it much harder to play Zelda's neutral game using anything other the Phantom. Part of it could be online lag, or it could be unfamiliarity with the new characters and/or balance changes to veteran fighters, but I've been struggling more than I thought I would.

Like controller John's aside since I cant play with my Wii remote anymore and have to learn new controller I feel like Daisy wasn't as bad of an adjustment coming in after a few as Zelda has been lol

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Like controller John's aside since I cant play with my Wii remote anymore and have to learn new controller I feel like Daisy wasn't as bad of an adjustment coming in after a few as Zelda has been lol

Non-GC Crew, reporting in.

I still feel this game is a lot different from the others. A game of it's own, at the very least. Some people will tell you it's pretty much Smash 4, but you really have to play it to see for yourself. I really feel the small Melee mecanics, such as added pressure on shields, the encouragement to juggle- and even the Wavelandings and pseudo Wavedashes (actual Wavedashes??) combined with the very clear Dash Dancing. This last one, on it's own, is the absolute biggest difference to me.

I tell people if you play Smash 4, this game will be Smash 4 to you. What I mean by this, is playing it as if it were, but not expanding on all the new mechanics. You're really missing out. I'd feel really limited with Zelda if I just kept with the things she had, but stuff like the new Dash Dance is what really excites me when I play her. A guy at a tournament even called me out on it, saying that I had a smile on my face the whole time (wouldn't have noticed lol).

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Non-GC Crew, reporting in.

I still feel this game is a lot different from the others. A game of it's own, at the very least. Some people will tell you it's pretty much Smash 4, but you really have to play it to see for yourself. I really feel the small Melee mecanics, such as added pressure on shields, the encouragement to juggle- and even the Wavelandings and pseudo Wavedashes (actual Wavedashes??) combined with the very clear Dash Dancing. This last one, on it's own, is the absolute biggest difference to me.

I tell people if you play Smash 4, this game will be Smash 4 to you. What I mean by this, is playing it as if it were, but not expanding on all the new mechanics. You're really missing out. I'd feel really limited with Zelda if I just kept with the things she had, but stuff like the new Dash Dance is what really excites me when I play her. A guy at a tournament even called me out on it, saying that I had a smile on my face the whole time (wouldn't have noticed lol).

Kind of like brawl to smash4 tho right now it's like smash4 EX where some things are similar and some things are vastly different. I'll probably feel better about the game as time goes by tho

 

[EODM07]

How's it going Elite Smashers?

I'm sadly not at Elite Smash yet. But my Lucina has reached 1.5 Million GSP, whereas my Pichu is at 900k, so I'll be redeeming my Pichu when I have the chance online. But I've been enjoying it so far, would like to improve some more on the game; but alas, I won't be going to tournaments anyway.

I might also give other fighters a shot online too, maybe Doc because I'm loving the idea of Down Throw > Down B as a kill confirm. Being a confirm too from 0 - 120% (Tested on Incineroar).

Btw, you think we'll ever get Rex and/or Pyra & Mythra in Smash as fighters as DLC? Maybe either Lora & Jin or even Addam & Mythra? (Or maybe just Mythra, so people can gawk at her alternate costume some more. It's a good costume either way. )

Spoiler: Yuri pic of the day~

 

[StoicPhantom]

Non-GC Crew, reporting in.

I still feel this game is a lot different from the others. A game of it's own, at the very least. Some people will tell you it's pretty much Smash 4, but you really have to play it to see for yourself. I really feel the small Melee mecanics, such as added pressure on shields, the encouragement to juggle- and even the Wavelandings and pseudo Wavedashes (actual Wavedashes??) combined with the very clear Dash Dancing. This last one, on it's own, is the absolute biggest difference to me.

I tell people if you play Smash 4, this game will be Smash 4 to you. What I mean by this, is playing it as if it were, but not expanding on all the new mechanics. You're really missing out. I'd feel really limited with Zelda if I just kept with the things she had, but stuff like the new Dash Dance is what really excites me when I play her. A guy at a tournament even called me out on it, saying that I had a smile on my face the whole time (wouldn't have noticed lol).

I don't remember raging this hard trying to get out of disadvantage in 4. I soured pretty hard on it towards the end because of how easy it was to get out of everything but I'm starting to miss those now. I played lots of characters that had difficulty getting back on the stage before but this is a whole nother level of ridiculousness.

My match-ups almost seem to entirely rely on whether I can completely shutdown my opponent or whether I get hit once and take 50-60% trying to get back on the stage. Now that I'm running into players who know how to intercept Zelda's recovery and ledge trump, it's pretty much a done deal. It seems like a lot of characters just need to dash dance near the ledge to cover every option. No amount of mind games will prevent a fast character from reading the wrong option and committing to it, only to have enough speed to hit you before you make it back because they are fast and have little commitment.

Ran into nothing but sword characters, Wolfs, and Inklings today. Managed to retain my Elite status despite all that, somehow. I used to think Incineroar was an easy match-up until I took 50% from Up-air ladders through the platforms. Whatever that spinning move he has is, it can be used under the ledge to stop our recovery. I'm kind of mad we're not allowed to use taunts but he gets to have them built into his moveset. It seems like our down taunt would be the perfect counter to all the teabaggers. I also ran into my first Metaknight and got zero-to-deathed almost immediately. He left after that but I fear that match-up.

Hopefully they do something about how easy it is to combo Zelda. She can't really take that much damage that easily with her weight class. I think she'd be really good if that happened.

How's it going Elite Smashers?

It's been pretty brutal.

I'm sadly not at Elite Smash yet. But my Lucina has reached 1.5 Million GSP, whereas my Pichu is at 900k, so I'll be redeeming my Pichu when I have the chance online. But I've been enjoying it so far, would like to improve some more on the game; but alas, I won't be going

You're pretty close, I think. It's somewhere between 1.550 and 1.630, as far as I can tell. I'm a little above that though, so not entirely sure.

Btw, you think we'll ever get Rex and/or Pyra & Mythra in Smash as fighters as DLC? Maybe either Lora & Jin or even Addam & Mythra? (Or maybe just Mythra, so people can gawk at her alternate costume some more. It's a good costume either way. )

Possibly. After the last two, anythings possible. It's pretty huge and popular so I think there is a good shot.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I don't remember raging this hard trying to get out of disadvantage in 4. I soured pretty hard on it towards the end because of how easy it was to get out of everything but I'm starting to miss those now. I played lots of characters that had difficulty getting back on the stage before but this is a whole nother level of ridiculousness.

Well, if you think about it, it can go both ways. You can trap the ledge pretty with at least Phantom, and a few characters can die with as a little as a "Mini" Spike (soft D-air). I've killed low-recovering Wolf like that a couple of times, if I recall.

My match-ups almost seem to entirely rely on whether I can completely shutdown my opponent or whether I get hit once and take 50-60% trying to get back on the stage. Now that I'm running into players who know how to intercept Zelda's recovery and ledge trump, it's pretty much a done deal. It seems like a lot of characters just need to dash dance near the ledge to cover every option. No amount of mind games will prevent a fast character from reading the wrong option and committing to it, only to have enough speed to hit you before you make it back because they are fast and have little commitment.

More inspiration for mischief. I need to do this.

I'm kind of mad we're not allowed to use taunts but he gets to have them built into his moveset. It seems like our down taunt would be the perfect counter to all the teabaggers.

Why can't you taunt.

Hopefully they do something about how easy it is to combo Zelda. She can't really take that much damage that easily with her weight class. I think she'd be really good if that happened.

Is there anything in particular that would make her succeptible to this? She's tall, but she's also light and floaty.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Why can't you taunt.

You cant taunt playing with randoms, its disabled.

Is there anything in particular that would make her succeptible to this? She's tall, but she's also light and floaty.

Zelda has always been juggle food because shes light and floaty with poor landing options. Dair in smash4 could give some poor coverage against some characters or at least trade but this doesnt seem to be the case anymore.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Lowkey wondering what Purple Guy/ScaryEd is up to. Is he still playing? He was a badass Zelda, in Smash 4. Got a few chances to play him when I was in the U.S, including the time we went to Orlando for Come to Papa 2.

 

[StoicPhantom]

Well, if you think about it, it can go both ways. You can trap the ledge pretty with at least Phantom, and a few characters can die with as a little as a "Mini" Spike (soft D-air). I've killed low-recovering Wolf like that a couple of times, if I recall.

Yeah, Wolf's Up-B is terrible and successive hits of Dair will do it. Good Wolf's however will use side-b instead to recover, since it's nigh impossible to edgeguard. You need to be in the right place and on the ball to successfully harass with Din's Fire.

It's kind of match-up dependent but Zelda's advantage and disadvantage seems pretty extreme. The Wolf match-up for instance, rarely has either party going even and one usually dominates the other pretty hard. It seems like whoever wins neutral at the start, wins the match sometimes. I just feel it's much harder for Zelda to retain her advantage sometimes and any slight mistake immediately puts you in disadvantage and undoes all your hard work.

Phantom works wonders in some match-ups but isn't as useful in others. Some characters have a very high jump and fast aerial mobility and can safely bypass Phantom and all of Zelda's anti-air options and land on the top platform. Others can recover low, with a recovery that can't be spiked or hug the side of the stage making it an awkward angle to hit, that Zelda's aerial mobility can't keep up with. Stage spikes don't seem as deadly as they were in 4 and the tech window seems like it's bigger now making for easier techs. I stage spiked K. Rool with Bair at 50-60ish and he was able to make it back from the side blast zone. That would have been a death sentence in 4.

More inspiration for mischief. I need to do this.

Ledge trumps are really ridiculous now. The new dash dance makes them really fast and possibly impossible to avoid. In 4 I could roll immediately and avoid but now I can't even react to them.

You cant taunt playing with randoms, its disabled.

Yeah, taunts are disabled now for some reason. I don't know why they thought they could tone down the douchiness of online when teabagging will always be a thing. At least some taunts are cute, funny, or cool but teabagging will always be douchey. There is literally no point in having taunts, if you can't use them as a reaction to something.

Zelda has always been juggle food because shes light and floaty with poor landing options. Dair in smash4 could give some poor coverage against some characters or at least trade but this doesnt seem to be the case anymore.

Pretty much this. I'll add on, that it seems they're going the opposite direction this time and making disadvantage much more difficult now. I noticed lot's of Fsmashs and Upsmashs are streamlined to be quick and powerful this time around. With jumps being frame 3, Up-air and Fair are now good anti-air tools. This results in landings and getting back on stage to be much more difficult.

As a consequence characters who had difficulty doing those before have a much greater difficulty now. With hit-stun and knockback the way it is now, these things have been exacerbated to ridiculous levels. All characters now have good anti-air tools it seems.

...Except Zelda, who's anti-airs seem to be lacking in range and speed compared to others.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Phantom works wonders in some match-ups but isn't as useful in others. Some characters have a very high jump and fast aerial mobility and can safely bypass Phantom and all of Zelda's anti-air options and land on the top platform. Others can recover low, with a recovery that can't be spiked or hug the side of the stage making it an awkward angle to hit, that Zelda's aerial mobility can't keep up with.

Then it's a good reason to start not having to depend on it for everything. Don't make the same mistake most Corrins did in Smash 4, where they thought Pin (Side B) was basically everything, but got shut down past a certain level. I get the feeling we could end up like that if we just rely on a single tool, which is why they also had a really bad time against characters like Fox (heavily disabled Pin).

 

[StoicPhantom]

Then it's a good reason to start not having to depend on it for everything. Don't make the same mistake most Corrins did in Smash 4, where they thought Pin (Side B) was basically everything, but got shut down past a certain level. I get the feeling we could end up like that if we just rely on a single tool, which is why they also had a really bad time against characters like Fox (heavily disabled Pin).

Kind of, yeah. As I said, it's pretty match-up dependent and will completely destroy certain characters but is only useful occasionally with others. Part of the problem is, Phantom is more of an "influencer" rather than an attack itself. So what it looks like and where its uses are is really difficult to figure out and very dependent on match-up and situation. It might not be feasible to use it a lot in some match-ups but a well-placed Phantom can completely turn things in your favor.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Kind of, yeah. As I said, it's pretty match-up dependent and will completely destroy certain characters but is only useful occasionally with others. Part of the problem is, Phantom is more of an "influencer" rather than an attack itself. So what it looks like and where its uses are is really difficult to figure out and very dependent on match-up and situation. It might not be feasible to use it a lot in some match-ups but a well-placed Phantom can completely turn things in your favor.

Yesterday, I saw a set where a dude literally spammed it. Was doing pretty amazing at first, but got pretty stuffed afterwards.
Guys, don't make the metagame. Please.

 

[Ffamran]

I wonder why they changed the hit angle on Zelda's Dtilt from 80 in Smash 4 to around 60 according to BJN39. The only thing I can think of is to prevent it from comboing into her lightning kicks, but depending on the knockback, it could be limited to a specific range of percents from. Even then, maybe having characters just be crazy would be more fun than them being almost crazy, but not crazy enough.

At this point, I'm just using this to log stuff.

Spoiler: THe 315th to 316th Summons

Spoiler: The 315th's stats

3* Catria: +Spd, -HP.

4* Cherche: +Def, -Res.

3* Fir: +Atk, -Def.

3* Hinata #1: +Atk, -Spd.

3* Lukas: +Atk, -Def.

Spoiler: The 316th's stats

4* Effie: +Atk, -HP.

5* Faye: +Atk, -Res.

4* Hinata #2: +Def, -HP.

4* Laslow: +Atk, -Res.

3* Niles: +Atk, -HP.

 

[Lil Puddin]

Btw, you think we'll ever get Rex and/or Pyra & Mythra in Smash as fighters as DLC? Maybe either Lora & Jin or even Addam & Mythra? (Or maybe just Mythra, so people can gawk at her alternate costume some more. It's a good costume either way. )

Having Pyra and Mythra be like Zelda/Shiek would be pretty awesome. Same VA and same model (mostly) so it could be a speed (Pyra) and power (Mythra). It's a very easy way to get a representative with a "unique" mechanic.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

S StoicPhantom

I hope I don't come off as a know-it-all. That's definitely not the impression I want to give off. I don't want to be that guy that does the talk and whole theorycraft scheme, but is basically just that. I used to be that guy... I just try to speak from some observations based on experience. Since I don't even have the game yet, I try and get everything I can from videos and readings.

Having Pyra and Mythra be like Zelda/Shiek would be pretty awesome. Same VA and same model (mostly) so it could be a speed (Pyra) and power (Mythra). It's a very easy way to get a representative with a "unique" mechanic.

Is the voice actress the same one we have in this Smash? Zelda's English voice is amazing, to me.

 

[StoicPhantom]

Yesterday, I saw a set where a dude literally spammed it. Was doing pretty amazing at first, but got pretty stuffed afterwards.

Yeah, you gotta have a plan or you find it countered pretty quickly.

Guys, don't make the metagame. Please.

Well, in one Corrin match, I managed to not only use the Phantom's shield to block their projectlie but simultaneously cover my getup as well as use the Phantom's shield to block their pin and simultaneously KO them. So...
It's far, far, too late for that my friend.

S StoicPhantom
I hope I don't come off as a know-it-all. That's definitely not the impression I want to give off. I don't want to be that guy that does the talk and whole theorycraft scheme, but is basically just that. I used to be that guy... I just try to speak from some observations based on experience. Since I don't even have the game yet, I try and get everything I can from videos and readings.

Oh no, we're good. You're probably excited and want to play and talk about the game, just don't quite have it yet. It's good to talk and bounce ideas and besides I need something to reply to, since the initial Zelda hype seems to have ended and things are a little dead around here. Although difficult characters like Zelda seem to have their boards die anyway.

I haven't paid attention to the tournament scene, so some players might be better and more knowledgeable than I am. So if you do come across something feel free to mention it. That's what these forums are for after all and if I feel the need to push-back or mention my own thoughts I will. If nothing else, other people who might be new to Zelda, and are lurking or running across these posts in the future, may find something useful.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Oh no, we're good. You're probably excited and want to play and talk about the game, just don't quite have it yet. It's good to talk and bounce ideas and besides I need something to reply to, since the initial Zelda hype seems to have ended and things are a little dead around here. Although difficult characters like Zelda seem to have their boards die anyway.

I definitely am. I just take what I can right now, which is some information- again, all while trying to assimilate it properly, as to be able to actually remember some when I actually play. There's such thing as too much information, which is why I tried breaking things down into a smaller scheme that is easy to remember for me.

I feel glad there is that difficulty curve as a sort of filter, though. Seperates the real ones to the ones that are willing to stick around.

I haven't paid attention to the tournament scene, so some players might be better and more knowledgeable than I am. So if you do come across something feel free to mention it. That's what these forums are for after all and if I feel the need to push-back or mention my own thoughts I will. If nothing else, other people who might be new to Zelda, and are lurking or running across these posts in the future, may find something useful.

Keep it as competitive as you can. "Elite Smash" sounds pretty competitive, from what you're telling me, here...somehow I expected another For Glory setting, before any of this. I definitely look forward to it.

I'm trying to refrain from giving any real advice, since I can't really talk much when I barely played the game twice. I just try to do what I think is appropriate.
I play fairly aggresive, and that means doing a fair bit of the approaching. This is a lot against of what the others will recommend you, so I won't recommend it to others.

 

[StoicPhantom]

I definitely am. I just take what I can right now, which is some information- again, all while trying to assimilate it properly, as to be able to actually remember some when I actually play. There's such thing as too much information, which is why I tried breaking things down into a smaller scheme that is easy to remember for me.

I get what you mean. There's quite a lot of information to parse about just the game itself as it is. Then you have Zelda looking like she's going to rely on all sorts of situation and match-up tricks and knowledge. I'm still just trying to figure out the new buffer mechanics and fast-falling with the new short-hop let alone get into things like the new parry or Zelda specific tech.

Keep it as competitive as you can. "Elite Smash" sounds pretty competitive, from what you're telling me, here...somehow I expected another For Glory setting, before any of this. I definitely look forward to it.

It's still does remind me a lot of For Glory currently. There's a mix of laggers, broken move/character abusers, and actually good players. You can definitely tell who got into Elite due to lag or abusing broken stuff and who got there on solid fundamentals. However, I've noticed as the bar for getting to Elite increases and the actually good players get better and figure out counters to broken move spamming, there has been a lot less of those types and Elite is starting to become like it's name implies. Hopefully, when you get the game it will be like its namesake.
I've been doing my part in keeping all the Wi-Fi Dededes and Lagginndorfs out as a lower-level Elite player.

 

[BJN39]

So just now I discovered there’s a hitbox on Zelda’s foot during her jab 1.

No, seriously.

there’s like, an anti-crouch hitbox that hit when jiggs was completely flat after landing. what is this even

I’m screaming.

Inb4bugfixesin1.3.0

 

[JigglyZelda003]

So just now I discovered there’s a hitbox on Zelda’s foot during her jab 1.

No, seriously.

there’s like, an anti-crouch hitbox that hit when jiggs was completely flat after landing. what is this even

View attachment 183608

I’m screaming.

Inb4bugfixesin1.3.0

Since the range in front of her was shortened for jab I just assumed they just made her jab a big bubble in front of her and that's what causes the suction to her multijab hex lol.

 

[BJN39]

Since the range in front of her was shortened for jab I just assumed they just made her jab a big bubble in front of her and that's what causes the suction to her multijab hex lol.

A little more investigating and I think you’re spot on; tested hitting from a dozen different angles, proximities, heights, etc, and came up with this:

Red is theoretical hit 1, green is hit 2. This would alone cover every placement I tested. There might be some shoulder thing, because there’s 2 different hit angles on aerial targets, but it would be mostly in the other hitbox, but presumably with hit priority. Either way, neat that you can’t really crouch it that easily. For clarity the initial crouch hit image was on hit 2, which reaches farther/lower.

In other news it’s a terrible anti air move now. Doesn’t even reach above her finger tips...

 

[Deleted member 189823]

How dare you abuse such a cute character...

 

[McKnightlíght]

Anybody up for some sparring?

 

[Gay Ginger]

In other news it’s a terrible anti air move now. Doesn’t even reach above her finger tips...

At first, I was in love with her new jab. But now I'm feeling a lot more mixed, and I often find myself wishing she had her old jab back,

It sucks as a defensive move now because of its new hitbox, and losing it as an AA move hurts. And although her old jab was slow for a neutral B, it had almost no endlag so it was one of her few safe moves in neutral. Now it has bad endlag making it very unsafe. It's also not super reliable, as I've had multiple different Bowser players all but ignore its multi-hit and attack me through it. Maybe it doesn't have enough hitstun?

Since her down tilt has lost a lot of its combo potential, the fact that her neutral A also can't combo like in Sm4sh hurts too. Maybe my opinion will change as I adapt and get better, but right now I think Zelda's neutral game sucks.

At least her new jab looks pretty and feels satisfying to land lol.

 

[Ffamran]

as I've had multiple different Bowser players all but ignore its multi-hit and attack me through it.

Bowser's Tough Guy trait was improved in this game. I'm not sure to what extent, though, like I think there's a formula or set amount of knockback he can endure and moves that go over that is when Tough Guy doesn't work. The Bowser boards are working on it and so far it seems like all rapid jabs are something he can tough out to very high percents: https://smashboards.com/threads/ultimate-tough-guy-armor-test-analysis.464767/.

Zelda's in particular, a post says he can tank her rapid jabs until 320%. If you're going to use jab against Bowser, going to for the minimum amount of hits is probably the best way to go and hope that the Bowser isn't mashing one of his faster options to interrupt you. Or just don't jab.