Zelda on WiFi

StoicPhantom

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
408
#2
A combination of her specials being hard to punish in lag and very little high profile and skilled players using her in tournaments. Really high standards is also a factor, given lots of people think a character needs to be consistently winning majors in order to be considered good. That's not likely to change, considering there are few Zelda players able to travel to majors and even fewer with the skill to win one, regardless of character.

There just isn't enough people willing to devote the time to learn her, especially when top tiers are easy and highly rewarding, and especially with everyone being so obsessed with money and fame now that esports and sponsors are a thing.
 
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D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
#3
plot twist: they suck either way

They're just annoying because you can't punish stuff, and "annoying" isn't necessarily a translation to "good". i.e For Glory Macs are annoying, but that hardly ever means they're good.

I've still yet to see a For Glory Zelda that actually does stuff right and uses her strongest tools and combos (i.e Kick OoS, D-Air & D-tilt > Kick, proper D-throw > Kick/U-Air, etc.), rather than charge Phantom and most specials.
 
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USAnyan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
60
#4
Because the already fair amount of input lag most of em’ have gives her practically an extra 2-3ish seconds to do her teleport or neutral b. which is basically free invincibility if you basically don’t spend the entire match trying to bait her out.(which goddamn is annoying because if you mess up once you’ll just go back to square one). Offline they can’t cheese that, so they really can’t take advantage of that much needed 2-3 seconds.

Also doesn’t help that online zeldas are just a rinse repeat cycle of “phantom neutral b, side b, smash,jab” rather than actually try her side aerials or actual combos or set ups or anything really.

I actually remember reading one of the comments on zeRos vid on why Zelda is annoying-and one of them said “Zelda is top tier when you use her In McDonald’s WiFi” lol.
 

Lacrimosa

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
1,053
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#5
Does she suck in tournaments, though?
I don't really know because with Ven there is at least one player that can contest people like MVD pretty well and the matches he has against FOW are also pretty close. It depends on one wrong decision how these matches end. But outside of Ven (who doesn't seem to visit many tournaments?) I haven't really seen a Zelda getting stuff done (or I'm just oblivious).
 
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Deleted member 189823

Guest
#6
Does she suck in tournaments, though?
I don't really know because with Ven there is at least one player that can contest people like MVD pretty well and the matches he has against FOW are also pretty close. It depends on one wrong decision how these matches end. But outside of Ven (who doesn't seem to visit many tournaments?) I haven't really seen a Zelda getting stuff done (or I'm just oblivious).
I just think people narrowly stuck into the mentality that "she's bad because she's always been bad so she's automatically bad". Since Day 1, I saw a lot of potential from being able to take advantage of the new dash dance mechanics to whiff punish things far better, as well as stuff like running U-Tilt to really increase our juggle game. But that's not all. This game has made me realise how important OoS punishes are. Zelda has two really quick OoS moves that can kill as early as 50 (Frame 6 Up-B and Frame 6 Kicks + 3 Frame jump squat). You can't say it's not short of broken, and it'll be a ridiculous threat when Zelda players get a better hold Parrying.

I think people are stuck in the old ways of trying too hard to wall opponents out to really take advantage of her full moveset. She has a couple of badass combos that require a lot of timing, such as basically garanteed D-Throw > Kick that can actually kill people at 50 at the ledge. It's a lot harder than it seems, because you have a really small window to buffer the jump and read DI.
 

Brinzy

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#7
Can confirm that my MMR improved the better I got at nailin' those Pradas out of shield. Parrying is really difficult online from my experience, but Zelda's still pretty good when the opponent can't take advantage of her poor mobility as easily.


I think Zeldavator is somewhat unreliable unless they completely mess up spacing. My opponents DI it often. But it does kill super early, so it's always worth considering.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

Guest
#8
Can confirm that my MMR improved the better I got at nailin' those Pradas out of shield. Parrying is really difficult online from my experience, but Zelda's still pretty good when the opponent can't take advantage of her poor mobility as easily.


I think Zeldavator is somewhat unreliable unless they completely mess up spacing. My opponents DI it often. But it does kill super early, so it's always worth considering.
They're not always perfect, and Parrying shouldn't be optional. At least try to and learn how to Parry single hit aerials, which is where you can get the most of your powerful OoS. Hell, you don't even need to Parry a lot of moves. We can Kick OoS a lot of the standard Smash attacks as well as some tilts, and even some jabs. I've been punishing Wolf's F-Tilt, Jab, Smash attacks and even N-Air (misspaced?) out of sheer frame disadvantage.

You'll want to at least learn to react as quick as you can with one of these. I sometimes punished R.O.B's Nair OoS.

And I don't think that many characters can fully avoid Up-B. The only ones I'm aware of that can get out by simply DI'ing are Pichu from my own experience, and someone told me Jigglypuff might be the same. Sure, it won't hit 100% of the time, but that doesn't always make it that unsafe if you at least get the first hit. S StoicPhantom said your best bet against DI is DI'ing very slightly into your opponent. I get this subconciously at lot.
 
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StoicPhantom

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
408
#9
Does she suck in tournaments, though?
I don't really know because with Ven there is at least one player that can contest people like MVD pretty well and the matches he has against FOW are also pretty close. It depends on one wrong decision how these matches end. But outside of Ven (who doesn't seem to visit many tournaments?) I haven't really seen a Zelda getting stuff done (or I'm just oblivious).
Yeah, as I said above, there just isn't many high profile Zelda players. Ven's been around for a long time, so has become a name among Zelda players despite not traveling much, but there isn't many that travel or play at a big enough event often. Mysterica is a decent Zelda, but I don't think is active much. You might also search Youtube with something like: ゼルダ スマブラSP大会 for some Japanese tournament footage. I don't know how consistently they play her or much about the Japanese scene at all though(need to get to that).

Ultimately, the US is huge, we don't have good public transportation, and it is pretty expensive to travel, especially in the current economy, so it's really only feasible to travel to majors constantly for pros and they're not really interested in Zelda.

And I wouldn't worry about her viability too much right now. Everyone pretends they have it figured out, but characters from Game & Watch to Ice Climbers are placing high and new good players are being discovered frequently, so there may be some unknown Zelda that has yet to explode on to the scene. If someone is interested in Zelda and can go to tournaments, then they should try it, as it would be great to get more representation. I might do it myself, but I have extenuating circumstances that doesn't make travel or playing for a long time in such an enviroment feasible.

I think Zeldavator is somewhat unreliable unless they completely mess up spacing. My opponents DI it often. But it does kill super early, so it's always worth considering.
If you land the first hit on an aerial opponent it has a tendency to pop them up at an angle, so you're going to need to be ready to angle the second to compensate. Don't quote me on this, but I believe the side you land the first hit on is the direction they're going to pop up. So if you hit them on the left, they should angle left.
 
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Deleted member 189823

Guest
#10
If you land the first hit on an aerial opponent it has a tendency to pop them up at an angle, so you're going to need to be ready to angle the second to compensate. Don't quote me on this, but I believe the side you land the first hit on is the direction they're going to pop up. So if you hit them on the left, they should angle left.
My theory is that DI'ing the opposite direction doesn't do much for the opponent, as it'll likely send them straight upwards at best, and never to the actual opposite side.
 

StoicPhantom

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
408
#11
My theory is that DI'ing the opposite direction doesn't do much for the opponent, as it'll likely send them straight upwards at best, and never to the actual opposite side.
Yeah, I just mean that there is either a weird interaction with the first hitbox on an aerial opponent that pops them at an angle or the opponent is already DI'ing on account of them being in the air and accidentally DIs that way. My guess is it's the latter, given they are already DI'ing that way when you hit them.
 

JoMa_ssb

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#12
In the current meta, Zelda is definitely underpowered and at a disadvantage against most of the top tiers. However, if you were to make the most of out of what you have with the character, she can be a force to be reckoned with WiFi or at LAN events. In my state for example, the latest monthly winner Mystearica went Zelda the entire tournament and won $350, only dropping a SINGLE game.

As for me, I am no where near Myst's skill level, but him winning has certainly motivated me to develop my own Zelda and contribute to unlocking the potential of the Princess of Hyrule.
 
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Baddest bih

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
43
#13
I just think people narrowly stuck into the mentality that "she's bad because she's always been bad so she's automatically bad". Since Day 1, I saw a lot of potential from being able to take advantage of the new dash dance mechanics to whiff punish things far better, as well as stuff like running U-Tilt to really increase our juggle game. But that's not all. This game has made me realise how important OoS punishes are. Zelda has two really quick OoS moves that can kill as early as 50 (Frame 6 Up-B and Frame 6 Kicks + 3 Frame jump squat). You can't say it's not short of broken, and it'll be a ridiculous threat when Zelda players get a better hold Parrying.

I think people are stuck in the old ways of trying too hard to wall opponents out to really take advantage of her full moveset. She has a couple of badass combos that require a lot of timing, such as basically garanteed D-Throw > Kick that can actually kill people at 50 at the ledge. It's a lot harder than it seems, because you have a really small window to buffer the jump and read DI.
Agreed. She’s not top tier but she’s not that bad than people are saying
 

Prince777

REIMU AND KOS-MOS FOR SMASH!
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#14
To my knowledge, most would likely consider her a "mid-tier" character given her lack of speed, tools, and combo potential. It depends on how you use her, but for the most part, she relies heavily on grabs and her kill power. Her b-air and f-air are among the most notable of her moveset. Her neutral a and down-tilt combo game is not is good as it was in Smash 4, but she has improved in other areas.
 
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