Zelda needs the 6.0 Jiggs treatment

[StoicPhantom]

It's not even about me dashing a lot. Yes, I'm aware that is a habit of mine, but I'm referring to simple cases where I just want to run up and shield, and end up eating something I shouldn't in exchange. This has happened a fair a mount, and it seems I just have to settle with either sititng in shield or rolling away. There's just an awkward range where your opponent can't just approach your opponent or run up and shield, but they have enough space to punish you for it.

I mean in general dashes are a commit for every character not just Zelda, so everyone needs to ensure they aren't dashing all the time or predictably charging their opponents.

For Zelda specifically, she's just under Robin for the highest dash frames in the game, Robin being 16 and Zelda being 15. From what I can see, the average is 10 frames, meaning Zelda's is 5 frames more than most. Which means Zelda will be dashing farther than most before being able to shield. While you can cancel your dash with jump, I don't know that you can cancel it with shield. Meaning you will have to wait until your dash is over and for Zelda that is 5 frames more than most. Which is why it's more awkward to shield dash with Zelda than most characters.

 

[daddypeach]

Does anyone else feel like Zelda has a horrendous Dash > Shield? I've only realised this very recently, and after hundreds of time of running into things. It feels like you need a bit of distance to run up and shield, and you can't do anything until the dash animation finishes. Is it just Zelda, or is this part of the game? Just buff this and give her a real grab, and I'm good. She doesn't need anything ridiculous like being fast on the ground or being able to SH double kick. Just tweak these "small" things.

It is part of the swordie metagame to know that the weakness of a foxtrot is that it takes a long time to shield. The exceptions are sheik and Corrin who can shield after just 8 frames of dashing.

I think Zelda has to wait 16 frames before she can shield, like most of the cast. ... But she does have a longish foxtrot so, you are probably likely to dash into things. 8 frames is kind of the sweetspot for timing a shield stop, so you would probably want to walk into shield if you think a burst option or projectile is coming.

Another option is to dash and immediately jump into airdodge which gives you more invincibility as you are moving that a forward roll. It's about the same level of commitment as roll. But if you are not trying to overcommit, I would just stand still or walk I to shield.

Edit:. Oh boo, Zelda's dash does take longer than average. That sucks. Well, I guess most people's timing beats that 10 frame dash. And Zelda is slower than average therefore easier to beat in that situation.

 

[Oz o:]

It is part of the swordie metagame to know that the weakness of a foxtrot is that it takes a long time to shield. The exceptions are sheik and Corrin who can shield after just 8 frames of dashing.

I think Zelda has to wait 16 frames before she can shield, like most of the cast. ... But she does have a longish foxtrot so, you are probably likely to dash into things. 8 frames is kind of the sweetspot for timing a shield stop, so you would probably want to walk into shield if you think a burst option or projectile is coming.

Another option is to dash and immediately jump into airdodge which gives you more invincibility as you are moving that a forward roll. It's about the same level of commitment as roll. But if you are not trying to overcommit, I would just stand still or walk I to shield.

Edit:. Oh boo, Zelda's dash does take longer than average. That sucks. Well, I guess most people's timing beats that 10 frame dash. And Zelda is slower than average therefore easier to beat in that situation.

jajajajaaj how the **** was I supposed to know any of this?!?! This isn't exactly common knowledge, you know. It's not like you go on Youtube and suddenly people randomly talk about this. This is something you'd only know by using Zelda and trying to do what I said, or like the thing with Dash Grab where you don't realise how much it sucks until you see for yourself.

It's not even like she's that slow, it's just these subtle things making her ocassionally feel clunky. Her foxthrot speed is 1.95, that's honestly a lot quick her, but with the obvious drawback.

 

[Brinzy]

Surprise, surprise.

The character that we said needed buffs got substantial buffs.

 

[stixie]

OH MY GOODNESS THANK YOU NINTENDO!!!!!!!!!!! FREAKING FINALLY!!!

I wanted a buff to grab and didn't get it but the buffs she did get are amazing!! Why did up air get buffed? Have no idea but I'll take it!! PHANTOM GOT BUFFED!!!!!!! DIN'S GOT BUFFED WHAAAAAAAAAAAT?????? WOW!!!!! Nair FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINALLY GETS FIXED!!!!!!!

Ok.................... Christmas.................





In other news Joker (also fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinally) gets a MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH needed nerf.






Ok, I got a bit of time to test out the new Zelda buffs this afternoon and OH GOODNESS!!!!! These buffs are CRAZY!! This character is serious high tier with these changes. So Zelda nair is obviously the biggest buff pulling people into it AND has less landing lag.

Nair LEGIT true combos into fair, nair combos (maybe not true I haven't been able to in depth test this) into grab and up-b, nair edge guards jumps in a big way, din's and uair kill consistently around 70-80 on mid weights, phantom........ I can't even..... this move is INSANE now....... it travels farther and kills MAD early.

Leffen has a video playing with Zelda and said she may be a serious "problem" now.

 

[Brinzy]

And that's what the character should feel like. When you're slow, frail, and horrendous in disadvantage, you have to make up for it by having meaningful hits everywhere. The nair buffs are super significant, giving us much more consistency with her combo game, and then everything else enhances her punish and kill game substantially.

I don't know if she still needs more buffs or not, but for now, she feels like a real threat and potentially worth picking up for counterpicking if you main a high tier.