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Zelda...matchup...help...please :(

Heero Yuy

#sweg
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
945
Location
In your closet
Played Zhime through netplay and while most Zeldas don't give me trouble...I realize that I have so much more to learn. I got tore a new one. Please critique. You can judge my bad Link as much as possible. T_T

No I'm not really that salty lol. though any kind of help is appreciated.

http://www.twitch.tv/zerudahime/v/6756752

Disclaimer: Just that I'll quickly comment that I played like a rang-heavy 3.02 Link...not good at all.
 
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Vitriform

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
97
Location
Philadelphia, PA
I play this matchup all the time from the Zelda side, so I think I might be able to help somewhat. Personally, I think it's one of Zelda's most disadvantageous matchups (at least 40:60 in Link's favor), requiring great matchup knowledge on part of the Zelda player to win. However, as I'm sure you know, Zhime's in an entirely different league than any other Zelda, and from what I could see, he was playing the matchup exceptionally well (The Zelda should be as aggressive as possible without playing unsafely, leaving no room for Link to pull bombs or zone her out).

You'll want to camp Zelda as hard as possible and force her to do all of the approaching in this matchup. Zelda's strongest when she has access to her close-range defensive tools and when she's in range to punish mistakes. By keeping her out of your space, she will be unable to punish you, since she moves too slowly to capitalize on your mistakes at range. Link is one of the few characters who can play a stronger ranged defensive game than Zelda, and you'll want to exploit this to its fullest. Play super lame with your projectlies, and only move in if you can get a hit confirm off of a projectile. Having a strong item game is of paramount importance in this matchup.

Bombs are your most critical resource; strategic use of Z-drops and AGT can help you break Zelda's combos and zone her out, and as a bonus, they're great for starting juggles. Knowing how to consistently bomb punt is actually useful in this matchup, since a correctly performed bomb punt will cover a lot of space for a relatively long time. Bombs in general are not profitable to reflect, making them your most useful projectile. A good Zelda will try to leave you with as little room to pull bombs as possible, but it's by no means an easy task for the Zelda. Your boomerang should rarely be thrown directly at Zelda; instead, angle it up or down, depending on her position and where you expect her to be (not where she is). This allows you to zone her out without worrying about having it reflected back at you. Arrows are best when you have another projectile active or when Zelda is offstage. A good snipe can gimp Zelda at relatively low percents, bypassing her excellent recovery. Link is one of the few characters capable of ending a Zelda stock early via edgeguarding. Arrows are also your best tool for punishing teleport startup in neutral, since they move quicker than your other projectiles.

If Zelda tries to approach with LC Nayru and Fairs, abuse your Zair (it's really good in this matchup). If spaced correctly, it will stuff all of Zelda's aerial approach options and pop her up for a Uair followup. When she's in the air above you, use your bombs, Utilt, and Uairs to juggle, since she has trouble getting down from heights and is most disadvantaged when she's above you. Fair is safe on shield if you space correctly; Nair is less so, so your use of Nair should be relegated to combo breaking, stuffing approaches, comboing, and edgeguarding. Only use Dair off of a hard punish or hard read, since it's not safe on shield and Zelda's Uair will beat it if she spaces correctly. You can AGT a bomb downward to make the Dair safer, since she won't be able to Uair you with a bomb in the way (in fact, I recommend using AGT as a way to bait responses out of Zelda, since it can act as a third jump of sorts).

Your grab game should primarily consist of Dthrow, since it yields your most consistent follow-ups. At low percents, you can Dthrow -> jab -> regrab until Zelda SDIs the jab, at which point you can usually get a Utilt, Usmash, or Uair follow up. At high percents, you can Dthrow -> Dair or Dthrow -> Fair off of poor DI (not behind), and rack up a little extra damage with Bair. Don't go for Dthrow -> Spin Attack; it won't work on Zelda at kill percents because she's far too floaty. Fthrow can be a good DI mixup with Dthrow at around 80-90%, since she will eat an easy Fair if she DIs for Dthrow. This stops working at very high percents because she will fly too far away. Uthrow can be good at low percents to start juggles.

Din's Fire shouldn't be too much of an issue in neutral because of the sheer number of options you have to safely clank it. Jab and Dtilt will clank a Din at head height and at your feet respectively without too much commitment. Any projectile will also clank the Din. Aerial Dins are best clanked with Nair or Fair. Shielding the Din is also an option.

When recovering, try to have a bomb on you at all times. Keeping a bomb makes your recovery much less predictable and allows you to throw out a hitbox while returning to stage. For example, you can FF under a Din, AGT the bomb forward to hit Zelda (useful if she's not in a position to use Nayru) while propelling yourself upward, and Spin Attack to ledge sweetspot. She can Dair you out of the recovery, but if you sweetspot correctly, that's one of the only options she has. The nerf to the telesnap makes you somewhat harder to edgeguard, since there's now a frame of vulnerability after snapping to ledge (it's still very doable, however), so be wary of Zelda teleporting to the ledge to grab it right out from under you.

Spin attack can get you low percent gimps, but be exceptionally careful. If Zelda is already on the ledge, I would advise against Spin Attacking except off of a hard read or a good reaction, since she can wait for the move to end and Fair you. If she has to teleport to the ledge from below, this can sometimes be a good opportunity to Spin Attack, since she will immediately die if she does not shorten her teleport perfectly or space the full length teleport correctly. However, be careful with this scenario as well, since she will be rewarded with a punish opportunity if she successfully sweetspots. Ideally, you want to force her to recover low, and arrows are great for this. You have 32 frames from the time she hits up-B to nail her with an arrow.

Lastly, try to pick stages with large side blastzones and small ceilings. Norfair is probably your best stage in this matchup since it lets you circle camp her to some extent and pelt her with Z-dropped bombs and other projectiles until she is at kill percent. Yoshi's Island (Brawl), PS2, and FD are also great stages.
 
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Luis Alonso

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 25, 2013
Messages
208
Location
New York, NY
Lastly, try to pick stages with large side blastzones and small ceilings. Norfair is probably your best stage in this matchup since it lets you circle camp her to some extent and pelt her with Z-dropped bombs and other projectiles until she is at kill percent. Yoshi's Island (Brawl), PS2, and FD are also great stages.
I agree on the Yoshi's Island (Brawl) counterpick. It is her worst stage by and large compare to every other stage in the game. The asymmetric layout of the stage, coupled with the relatively close and rather long platform makes it difficult to travel around the stage via telecanceling. In order to compensate, most Zelda's will be forced to rely on diagonal telecancels just to get by. If you know this about Zelda and Yoshi's Brawl, you can predict when and where she'll attempt to telecancel. It's also long, so you can safely camp out like @ Vitriform Vitriform mentioned.
 
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