Zelda Future PM changes

[oddzxc]

Do you think that Zelda's/shiek D-special should be turned into a taunt (3.5 gannon) and have a totally different down special to mix things up? Or should it stay the same? Personally for me as a new Zelda player and a shiek main, frustrating when it comes to accidentally taping D-special, because of how long it takes.

 

[4tlas]

Do you think that Zelda's/shiek D-special should be turned into a taunt (3.5 gannon) and have a totally different down special to mix things up? Or should it stay the same? Personally for me as a new Zelda player and a shiek main, frustrating when it comes to accidentally taping D-special, because of how long it takes.

The argument against this has been twofold: 1) Zelda and Sheik are already decently balanced characters, giving them a new special while keeping Transform would throw a wrench into that, and 2) then you can't Transform in the air.

Transforming in the air is the most common time to use Transform, whether because you need to recover or because its the safest place to do so. Unfortunately, you're just going to have to get used to not hitting downB by accident or learn to play Sheik decently enough to switch back before death.

 

[oddzxc]

The argument against this has been twofold: 1) Zelda and Sheik are already decently balanced characters, giving them a new special while keeping Transform would throw a wrench into that, and 2) then you can't Transform in the air.

Transforming in the air is the most common time to use Transform, whether because you need to recover or because its the safest place to do so. Unfortunately, you're just going to have to get used to not hitting downB by accident or learn to play Sheik decently enough to switch back before death.

I'm just assuming since gannon got a slight change, zelda and shiek can have one too, it will ultimately make them two fleshed out characters instead of one

 

[ShadowGanon]

I'm just assuming since gannon got a slight change, zelda and shiek can have one too, it will ultimately make them two fleshed out characters instead of one

I think that was his point, they are both (Zelda and Sheik) ALREADY two fleshed out characters as is.

 

[otheusrex]

well, if transform is kept, i think the ability to fake out and cancel it before a certain frame in the startup would be pretty neat. That way you could use it as a bait and also just stop yourself form committing suicide if you accidentally hit down b when you don't mean to.

 

[4tlas]

I'm just assuming since gannon got a slight change, zelda and shiek can have one too, it will ultimately make them two fleshed out characters instead of one

Aside from Sheik's Chain, they are already 2 fleshed out characters. Players who want to solo main one of the characters only have 3 specials, yes, but the characters are stronger elsewhere to account for that. I have no problem with giving them an extra special and putting Transform on taunt (besides not being able to Transform midair...), but it would take a lot of effort and time to rebalance the characters, which I believe the PMDT doesn't have.

 

[Gooch]

I think if we reduced the startup on Farore's significantly, Zelda could be A tier again.

This would give her a usable and reliable OOS option, a more accurate recovery because you dont have to include the drift distance from an Aerial Farores, and faster movement.

 

[FreeGamer]

I'd like to have 2 Din's Fires.

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

I think if we reduced the startup on Farore's significantly, Zelda could be A tier again.

This would give her a usable and reliable OOS option, a more accurate recovery because you dont have to include the drift distance from an Aerial Farores, and faster movement.

Check this conversation out.
As for Down-B, find a reason to give her a pillar-like move.

 

[True Fool]

All three pkmn got new down-bs, I honestly have no idea why Zelda and Sheik haven't. It didn't break any of the pkmn, and no one dual-mains Zelda and Sheik.

It's a bad mechanic, and it was a good move to remove it from the pkmn, but Zelda and Sheik should get the same treatment.

Sheik could use something to boost her recovery, and I'm sure Zelda could gain something useful.

 

[Downdraft]

All three pkmn got new down-bs, I honestly have no idea why Zelda and Sheik haven't. It didn't break any of the pkmn, and no one dual-mains Zelda and Sheik.

It's a bad mechanic, and it was a good move to remove it from the pkmn, but Zelda and Sheik should get the same treatment.

Sheik could use something to boost her recovery, and I'm sure Zelda could gain something useful.

This is where you are wrong. How many players actually split their efforts 50:50 between two characters and are equally good at both? Shielda players exist. It's just that Zhime is the only person that bothers to play both characters at a top level. The top Sheiks don't play Zelda. Maybe some of the people on this board will put some serious effort to bring their Sheik gameplay up to their Zeldas. I believe what you meant is that there aren't any prominent Shielda mains since Zhime hasn't been to a tournament in a while.

 

[4tlas]

Hi I'm a Sheilda main. I'm not in your scene but that doesn't mean I don't exist. Please don't disregard me.

 

[Downdraft]

Hi I'm a Sheilda main. I'm not in your scene but that doesn't mean I don't exist. Please don't disregard me.

I hope you're not talking to me. I'm aware of the existence of Shieldas on our board and in Skype. My point was that only 1 can be agreed to exist at a top level. There is only 1 active Zelda main with national recognition and his name is Zhime. He traveled quite a bit before 3.5 and defeated or contended with top names from multiple regions. He rose to fame on netplay. No one else comes close to his notoriety as a Zelda or Shielda, and no other Shielda exists at a professional level yet. When one arises, the nation will know.

 

[4tlas]

I hope you're not talking to me. I'm aware of the existence of Shieldas on our board and in Skype. My point was that only 1 can be agreed to exist at a top level. There is only 1 active Zelda main with national recognition and his name is Zhime. He traveled quite a bit before 3.5 and defeated or contended with top names from multiple regions. He rose to fame on netplay. No one else comes close to his notoriety as a Zelda or Shielda, and no other Shielda exists at a professional level yet. When one arises, the nation will know.

No, I was talking to the other guy. I can see the ambiguity in my post. I apologize for the confusion.

 

[True Fool]

Alright, my broad statement aside, I really don't think there's enough Sheilda's that both of these characters should be short one move. Would anyone be interested in a poll to determine how many Sheik and Zelda mains use both consistently?

I really feel both of these characters would benefit far more from having an additional move than being able to transform.

 

[4tlas]

Alright, my broad statement aside, I really don't think there's enough Sheilda's that both of these characters should be short one move. Would anyone be interested in a poll to determine how many Sheik and Zelda mains use both consistently?

I really feel both of these characters would benefit far more from having an additional move than being able to transform.

If by benefit you mean they would be better characters, that's debatable. Regardless of how many Sheilda players there are, I think a reasonable argument for the continued inclusion of Transform is this: Zelda and Sheik players already play their character because they like them, even with the "missing move". Removing Transform would remove Sheilda from the game, and Sheilda players would be **** out of luck. The argument can be made that this happens any time any change is made to the game, but this is a far more extreme case. Changing Ivysaur to not play the same way may alienate some players, but most people will just like her more/less. Changing Transform could do the same for Sheilda players, but outright removing it would be like removing Ivysaur. Sure, Zelda/Sheik players would be happier, but "insert terrible vs. Ivy matchup here" players would also be happy with the removal of Ivysaur!

 

[ZGE]

Alright, my broad statement aside, I really don't think there's enough Sheilda's that both of these characters should be short one move. Would anyone be interested in a poll to determine how many Sheik and Zelda mains use both consistently?

I really feel both of these characters would benefit far more from having an additional move than being able to transform.

I'm trying to play Sheik more, and there's also a good Snake player who lives a couple hours away from me that having transform is incredibly useful against.

 

[Kaeldiar]

Someone called for Sheilda mains? Hi, how can I be of service?

 

[Prynne]

Someone called for Sheilda mains? Hi, how can I be of service?

Make it double.

 

[4tlas]

Make it double.

I read that in James' voice.

 

[Prynne]

Oh no, have I made Sheilda mains the Team Rocket of PM now?

 

[4tlas]

Oh no, have I made Sheilda mains the Team Rocket of PM now?

That means we need a theme song. It will also make us some of the most loved villains in history. That's more than Zelda or Sheik players can say =P

 

[Kaeldiar]

@ 4tlas @ Prynne

Prepare for trouble!
Make it double!
To protect the world with our sparkles and jewels!
To unite all people under Hyrule!
To denounce the evils of Ganon and Demise!
To extend our reach above to the skies!
Zelda!
Sheik!
Triforce of Wisdom teleports with a musical chime!
Surrender now or get sent back in time!
Sheilda! That's right!

 

[4tlas]

@ 4tlas @ Prynne

Prepare for trouble!
Make it double!
To protect the world with our sparkles and jewels!
To unite all people under Hyrule!
To denounce the evils of Ganon and Demise!
To extend our reach above to the skies!
Zelda!
Sheik!
Triforce of Wisdom teleports with a musical chime!
Surrender now or get sent back in time!
Sheilda! That's right!

If I knew how to make a sig, this would be it. Definitely. 10/10.

 

[ZGE]

If I knew how to make a sig, this would be it. Definitely. 10/10.

Top of page -> 4tlas -> "Signature"

 

[4tlas]

Top of page -> 4tlas -> "Signature"

Nothing I do makes it fit =(

 

[Kaeldiar]

@ Prynne @ 4tlas @WhiteLightnin

In case anyone wants this in a "signature-friendly" form, format it like this. I played with the line spacing so that it would all fit. Big thanks to Tri4s | Vaporeon (not on Smashboards) who helped me make a few edits!

Prepare for Nayru! // And make it *TU*! To protect the world with our
magic and jewels! // To unite all people under Hyrule! // To denounce
the evils of Ganon and Demise! // To Loft our wisdom above to the Skies!
Zelda! // Sheik! // Watch us transform with a musical chime!
Surrender now or get sent back in time! // Sheilda! That's right!

 

[Randomman14]

aside from loving the sheilda motto, i was thinking. if they were to make the transform a taunt like some said above, would it be possible for them to makes useable in the air? then give both shiek and zelda a new special.

 

[4tlas]

aside from loving the sheilda motto, i was thinking. if they were to make the transform a taunt like some said above, would it be possible for them to makes useable in the air? then give both shiek and zelda a new special.

No I do not think there is any way to make a taunt usable mid-air. That would also be a straight buff to both characters, which sounds untenable for Sheik. At least if Transform was now not usable mid-air that would be a significant nerf to Transform (and make me a very sad panda)