Your take on game mechanics.

[RoK the Reaper]

As you know, a lot of the mechanics that made you all love melee (WaveDashing, Edgehogging, L-cancelling, Wavedashing, oh; did I mention wave dashing?) have been taken out of Brawl and thus rendering a lot of the tourny*** (Sorry 4-chan) competitive scene with their panties in a wad. A lot of people have even said before Brawl was somewhat playable, let alone exploitable since the Japanese release "If Brawl doesn't have wave dashing, I'm just going to continue to play melee". Are you?

What I'm saying, is that people who have played melee the regular way all this time finally have some even ground (even though I didn't, I used advanced techniques) and in any case, may actually have advantages to those that have been playing the old way the whole time. Personally, I'm fine with all of this and even more so, I'm perfectly okay with it. New gameplay comes new strategies and new ways of dealing with things. Why would you want to play Melee just in a upgraded little form? Why even ask for a new game if you're going to continue to play it like the old one?

The only qualms I have is the slowness and the fact that you can auto-sweet spot, these are my only qualms, but those will soon be forgotten. What is your take on the whole situation? Inquiring minds wish to know.


NOTICE

If anyone is an Ike-Main and wishes to join a organization for the promotion of Ike in Brawl, please join the Blood-4-Blood clan located http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=142483 <--- There.

 

[Son1x]

I personally enjoy the fact that most of the stuff is gone. I look forward to playing it.

Also, Ike is going to be one of my five mains. =p

 

[Dream Chaser]

I like the way that a lot of the stuff is gone because I played Melee the regular way for a very long time.
This is my opinion an you are not by any means forced to agree/disagree with it.
The "advanced techniques" (the ones that were not intended) seemed to give certain characters (the faster ones) an advantage over others. This seems to have happened due to the blinding speed that the game ended up becoming. One good thing that came from this was a sort of art as to how the game was played.

Brawl appears to be programmed more tightly (at this stage) than the previous two games.
I expect that this will make the game more balanced and with luck that each character will be viable to win with.

 

[limitbreak]

I like the way that a lot of the stuff is gone because I played Melee the regular way for a very long time.
This is my opinion an you are not by any means forced to agree/disagree with it.
The "advanced techniques" (the ones that were not intended) seemed to give certain characters (the faster ones) an advantage over others. This seems to have happened due to the blinding speed that the game ended up becoming. One good thing that came from this was a sort of art as to how the game was played.

Brawl appears to be programmed more tightly (at this stage) than the previous two games.
I expect that this will make the game more balanced and with luck that each character will be viable to win with.

If anything it gave the slower characters a better advantage. Don't know what you're talking about. But either way, I dont agree with removing some techniques such as l-canceling and edge hogging. Just doesnt make sense.

 

[Sculelos]

I like the changes.

In Melee it was to easy to get hit when recovering with certain characters (Bowser, DK) so Auto sweet spotting is a good change.

As for L-Canceling I don't mind it being gone but am pretty sure it's removal was to primarily to benefit online play.

Wavedashing was a physics glitch and as such I'm not suprised at it's removal. It was fun to use but I'm glad it's gone since I don't really want to dance around my opponent for a long time before anyone is hit.

Really can't think of much else except that I am looking forward to see what sort of new techs and strategy's I can find out when I get the game.

 

[snowbonez]

I think Melee is more hardcore.
Nintendo was trying to nerf the entire game for casual33ts.
Still, I like Brawl more than Melee, and some reasond are because of the simplicity now.

 

[YellowJT]

im personally glad that wavedashing is gone. firstly, it was a technique that wasn't suppose to be in there....secondly, i didnt really see much use for it (or am i just dumb). but soon enough were gonna end up finding some other glitch that wasn't suppose to be in there and use that til the worlds end >.<

 

[ToyzSoldier]

Taking out l-canceling did seem really silly, but a lot of the moves in the game have the lag of an l-canceled ariel anyway. Although wavedashing... I do appreciate the new mechanics of this air dodge. It is very fresh and new, and can potentially have many uses, and actually be EFFECTIVE at what it was intended to do. But... I'm still gonna have a hole in my heart at loss of such a giant move as wavedashing. This new air dodge just can't replace the immense variety wavedashing had to offer. It was like the ace in the hole for a lot of characters movesets. But then again, now we're not gonna have 50% of the stages banned because of fox's waveshine. And what do you guys mean that edgehogging is gone? Its still totally in.

 

[YellowJT]

i agree with you on that with L-canceling, but after a while, people are going to get used to the shorter lag time, and want it to be even shorter, so i guess you just cant win.
and he's right, edgehogging's still in....and you can even edgehog backwards!

 

[Star105]

while those game mechanics are interesting the update was some of the techniques discovered in melee with a couple additions

such as breaking through the reflector abilities

 

[Dream Chaser]

@limitbreak, I was referring to how advanced techniques affected melee for the first bit. Sorry, I shoulda been more clear.

Yeah, the official (intended) advanced techiques are up. The rest is for players to figure out.

 

[Hallowed Storm]

I'm thinking like you on this one, RoK. I'm not sad that the advanced techniques have been removed. Now, the noobs won't have anything unfair to complain about when we pwn them in battle.

 

[Arteen]

Yeah, the official (intended) advanced techiques are up. The rest is for players to figure out.

Just make note of what Sakurai stated in the update:

I’ll try not to get too technical with things, but just know that there are lots of small tricks like these for you to play around with.

"Like these," meaning that these aren't the only intended techniques. So indeed, the rest is for the players to figure out.

 

[theperson91]

I don't think most people realize this, but the advanced techniques really balanced the game. Characters like Ganon would've gone nowhere if there hadn't been shffling, and characters like the ICs and Luigi would've completely sucked without wavedashing. Also, some of the good characters like Marth and Shiek really don't gain much out of the use of advanced techniques because their l-cancels accomplish much less than l-canceling a move of a slower character like link, ganon, or bowser.

 

[100%]

I don't really care that the advanced techniques are gone. I never used them. I also play with Luigi without using advanced techniques and I have no problem playing people who are good with advanced techniques. Still I don't doubt someone will find something not intended to be in the game, even though I hope no one does.

 

[error_alt_delete]

Im glad the "advanced techniques" in melee (AKA, the glitches) were removed. I also hope we dont find any more in brawl. I just want to play the way it was intended with the moves they put in, that way, the victor is determined not by knowing a ceartain glitch move, but knowing how to use their character at their best effectivly.

 

[CFMV]

I don't think most people realize this, but the advanced techniques really balanced the game. Characters like Ganon would've gone nowhere if there hadn't been shffling, and characters like the ICs and Luigi would've completely sucked without wavedashing. Also, some of the good characters like Marth and Shiek really don't gain much out of the use of advanced techniques because their l-cancels accomplish much less than l-canceling a move of a slower character like link, ganon, or bowser.

that's true. most people complaining about the advanced techniques were noobs that sucked anyway and just using the "advanced techs make the game unbalanced" excuse to cover for it.

 

[zeldamaster2006]

Wavedashing and L-Cancelling WERE glitches. Why should a very strong very heavy character, such as Bowser or Ganondorf, have as little lag as a fast hitter like Peach? Lag is there for the balance, and taking out lag really unbalances things. Why should Bowser move as fast as Mario? He shouldn't.

Also, what do you mean they took out ledgehogging? I heard nothing about this.

 

[okiyama]

L cancelling was programmed in and intented to be in the game, back in 64 Nintendo officially announced Z cancelling as a technique.

Wavedashing had it's own specififc programming for when a character air dodges into the ground what should happen. They made them slide after air dodging into the ground on purpose. I assume they did not foresee what it would do to the balance of the game though.

 

[CFMV]

Wavedashing and L-Cancelling WERE glitches. Why should a very strong very heavy character, such as Bowser or Ganondorf, have as little lag as a fast hitter like Peach? Lag is there for the balance, and taking out lag really unbalances things. Why should Bowser move as fast as Mario? He shouldn't.

Also, what do you mean they took out ledgehogging? I heard nothing about this.

bowser's power and weight come nowhere near close to compensating for his lack of speed. even with l-canceling and wavedashing he still couldn't compete with the faster characters. And edge hogging is still in. I've played brawl, and i've done it, although the edge hog no longer lasts after you roll out of your edge grab.

 

[theperson91]

Im glad the "advanced techniques" in melee (AKA, the glitches) were removed. I also hope we dont find any more in brawl. I just want to play the way it was intended with the moves they put in, that way, the victor is determined not by knowing a ceartain glitch move, but knowing how to use their character at their best effectivly.

Unfortunaty your argument holds no weight because anyone who wanted to spend about an hour or two (about how long it took for me,) could easily learn these glitches. Therefore, because anyone can know how to do them, the game becomes not about who can do these well publicized glitches, but about how well you knew your character. Also, the person who argued that shffling made bowser unbalanced is clearly wrong because bowser is not the best, even with the help of shffling.

 

[P.c. Chris]

I love how scrubs think they'll be good in brawl now that the advanced tactics from melee didn't pass over, it's kind of cute :3

 

[FalseFalco]

I love how scrubs think they'll be good in brawl now that the advanced tactics from melee didn't pass over, it's kind of cute :3

But now there's none of that cheap stuff! so it's a completely fair playing field!

rite guyz whos with me

 

[mog87]

This is like an idiot trap...if you sucked at melee "because of all the advanced tricks" youre prolly gonna suck at brawl. Youre just gonna be rolling back and forth, like you probably did in melee, into your opponents hands. So for the majority of you types the mechanics really the same.

 

[XCWarrior]

I for one was glad to see all the glitches - I mean advanced techniques - removed from the game. If I was going to play online, I wanted it to be a level playing field, and now it is.

I think the tourney people should also have to deal with having to use items as well. That would make the game a lot better in that aspect of it. But I doubt that will happen.

I agree with the decisions made, even the slowed-pace. It took me like 2 matches to get used to, but now I'm happy with the change.

 

[oddgloat]

This is like an idiot trap...if you sucked at melee "because of all the advanced tricks" youre prolly gonna suck at brawl. Youre just gonna be rolling back and forth, like you probably did in melee, into your opponents hands. So for the majority of you types the mechanics really the same.

yes.

I didn't even like melee that much before I knew about lcancel and wavedash and I by no means ever played it competitively. Rolling seemed like the only way to space properly, especially against an f-tilting Luigi. It was like a whole new game after seeing guys like Isai and PC play, knowing that there was nearly infinite room for improvement with those techniques. I've had brawl for about 1 week and at this point the best way to win with most characters is to space bairs (works real well with DK) and shieldgrab because you can't approach. Brawl is a whole new game, but it's really hard, even for someone like me who only plays casually with a few people, to get excited about winning matches that way after pulling off things that you have to practice for days to be able to do (such as drillshine combos, long combo chains with falcon, etc.). I'm glad that there is a new smash to play, but the fact that combos and approaching are gone really takes a lot of the fun out of trying to improve at a game. My Melee copy will definately not be collecting dust.

 

[Tomotoya]

Brawl is a whole new game, but it's really hard, even for someone like me who only plays casually with a few people, to get excited about winning matches that way after pulling off things that you have to practice for days to be able to do (such as drillshine combos, long combo chains with falcon, etc.).

I'm glad that there is a new smash to play, but the fact that combos and approaching are gone really takes a lot of the fun out of trying to improve at a game. My Melee copy will definately not be collecting dust.

That perfectly sums up just about everything in my mind.
The scarcity of combo-ability, in my opinion, really hurts this game.

 

[Popertop]

I agree that sacrificing combos wasn't very pleasing to many people, especially falcon lovers like myself, but it was necessary in balancing the game as they did.
I actually enjoy the new balance because it will for players to be more mindgame oriented.
No more, "Oh I can just combo you off the stage every life."
It's more in the mind and utilizing every move your character has to win.
Which is how I played when I first got Melee, but then realized the only way I could really compete was spamming certain moves like every one else.
Now there will be more individualized players, and more variety, which is going to be a big part of the meta-game for Brawl.

 

[KageJuin]

I agree that sacrificing combos wasn't very pleasing to many people, especially falcon lovers like myself, but it was necessary in balancing the game as they did.
I actually enjoy the new balance because it will for players to be more mindgame oriented.
No more, "Oh I can just combo you off the stage every life."
It's more in the mind and utilizing every move your character has to win.
Which is how I played when I first got Melee, but then realized the only way I could really compete was spamming certain moves like every one else.
Now there will be more individualized players, and more variety, which is going to be a big part of the meta-game for Brawl.

nice, exactly what I thought, you can still combo, but only the combo's that were made for the game

no pathetic glitch exploiting fused with spamming, but regular smash playing, like the original 64 version

I got fed up with melee only being about the glitches and wavedashing etc

I can do it, that's not the problem, it's just that after playing a few matches I get tired of seeing the same combo and smae characters over and over again

 

[Takuyo90]

nice, exactly what I thought, you can still combo, but only the combo's that were made for the game

no pathetic glitch exploiting fused with spamming, but regular smash playing, like the original 64 version

I got fed up with melee only being about the glitches and wavedashing etc

I can do it, that's not the problem, it's just that after playing a few matches I get tired of seeing the same combo and smae characters over and over again

yup exactly.

i can actualy whatch a fight and be intrested in it that being bored with it like melee.

 

[Kasumi]

nice, exactly what I thought, you can still combo, but only the combo's that were made for the game

no pathetic glitch exploiting fused with spamming, but regular smash playing, like the original 64 version

Someone hasn't seen any good people play the original. In the original, if you make a mistake against anybody good, you lose a stock. Period. No matter what percent you are at. Almost every character in that game can 0 to death combo. The original has no DI (at least not immediately after beind hit) and no way to cancel the tumbling animation, so somene can just combo, combo, combo you until you die.

Against a good DJC Ness, if you sheild you lose a stock. They'll pummel your sheild until it breaks, then pummel you until you die. There are far more combos in the original game, than "the combos that were made for the game."

Melee is a LOT better in that respect. You have a directional airdodge (not in brawl), teching off wall, DI perpindicular to knockback. You can actually escape combos if you're any good.

As for brawl... meh. They took out the directional air dodge. It was probably to remove wavedashing, but it took out a good escape method for combos. Now you can just follow the person with a sex kick, so if they do dodge, they're going the same direction and the sex kick will hit them when they come out. And if you think there aren't some insane combos in brawl as well, you're wrong.

 

[Geist]

I really don't see why people despise advanced techniques so much. How using them is pathetic is beyond me. People keep trying and make it seem like only a chosen few can ever hope to accomplish such an amazing feat. I taught my 5 year old cousin how to shffl uairs with his fox. If you can't lean how to wavedash, or are too lazy to do so, I kinda feel sorry for you.

Wavedashing and shflling both aren't really that much of a glitch anyways. Completely freezing an opponent in place is more of a glitch imo. Wavedashing is more or less a physics exploit. Having an air dodge directed towards the ground and having it slide your character across the ground isn't that big of a deal, and L-cancelling, like Z-cancelling in 64, is actually intended. Short hopping and fast falling are in the manual. Shffling isn't a glitch. Kind of obvious.

It takes more than just knowing how to pull off adv. techniques in the first place. The people who use them effectively, intelligently and with extreme precision are the same people that would beat you without them as well. Without them, the game can only be taken so far gameplay wise. With them, you can break the ceiling and give the game more depth than was intended.

Besides, it's only a matter of time before they find new brawl techniques. Bowser already has an infinite jump over land, and the game has been out for like a week.

 

[CFMV]

This is what this topic looks like to me:

lol PC Chris owns.