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Your opinion on LoZ’s roster representation

Depressed Gengar

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At this point, the whole "one-off" argument is just silly. It definitely made sense back when there were bigger characters to get in, like during Brawl when we were still missing Wario, Diddy, Dedede, K. Rool, Ridley, etc., but now? When the only two all-starts left are Toad and Dixie Kong? Especially when there have been more jarring inclusions in the past? Even if one-offs aren't a part of Zelda's "core", they're still much more important than other characters we've gotten over the years. One one-off isn't going to ruin the roster or anything.
 

The Smash Nerd II.0.

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My changes to the roster is:
Veterans:
:ultlink:Link (same)
:ultzelda:Zelda (Light Arrows are now Neutral B (:GCN::GCB:), Nayru's Love moved to Down B (:GCD::GCB:) and Phantom Slash is cut)
:ultganondorf:Ganondorf (His specials are changed to be his skills from the games he appeared in)
:ulttoonlink:Toon Link (His specials are changed to use items from Wind Waker (Up B (:GCU::GCB:) is now Deku Leaf and Forward Smash (:GCR::GCA:) is now Skull Hammer)

Newcomers:
Impa (Hyrule Warriors Design and Moveset with Age of Calamity Impa as alt. Up (:GCU::GCB:) and Down B (:GCD::GCB:) are based on her skills from Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword)
Mipha (Breath of The Wild Design and Moveset based on Age of Calamity)
Tetra (Wind Waker Hd Design and Moveset based on Hyrule Warriors)
Vaati (Design is a 3D version of his Minish Cap appearance, moveset is based off his boss fights from Four Swords and The Minish Cap)

Cut:
:ultsheik:Sheik
:ultyounglink:Young Link
 

RetrogamerMax

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At this point, the whole "one-off" argument is just silly. It definitely made sense back when there were bigger characters to get in, like during Brawl when we were still missing Wario, Diddy, Dedede, K. Rool, Ridley, etc., but now? When the only two all-starts left are Toad and Dixie Kong? Especially when there have been more jarring inclusions in the past? Even if one-offs aren't a part of Zelda's "core", they're still much more important than other characters we've gotten over the years. One one-off isn't going to ruin the roster or anything.
Exactly. If you don't count spin offs and cameos, all of these characters are one offs:

:ultness::ultlucas::ulticeclimbers::ultmarth::ultroy::ultike::ultrobin::ultlucina::ultcorrin::ultchrom::ultbyleth::ultduckhunt::ultcloud::ultsephiroth::ulthero3::ulthero4::ulthero2::ulthero::ultsheik:

Lol! It's a joke at this point to say one offs can't get in when this many have so far. People man.
 

Quillion

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Exactly. If you don't count spin offs and cameos, all of these characters are one offs:

:ultness::ultlucas::ulticeclimbers::ultmarth::ultroy::ultike::ultrobin::ultlucina::ultcorrin::ultchrom::ultbyleth::ultduckhunt::ultcloud::ultsephiroth::ulthero3::ulthero4::ulthero2::ulthero::ultsheik:

Lol! It's a joke at this point to say one offs can't get in when this many have so far. People man.
At least most of those characters are the stars of their respective series. Zelda one-offs usually aren't.

Before you bring up Sheik, she was a fluke that got in under strange circumstances that wouldn't stand today.

That’d be waste, not to mention a misrepresentation of the character. In other words, the main issues that people with the two small Links.
Why? Classic Link starting with ALttP has a sword, bow, boomerang, bombs, spin attack, and hookshot. What's so important that Classic Link with TP/OoT alts would miss if he inherited Link's Smash 4 moveset?
 

MarioMeteor

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Why? Classic Link starting with ALttP has a sword, bow, boomerang, bombs, spin attack, and hookshot. What's so important that Classic Link with TP/OoT alts would miss if he inherited Link's Smash 4 moveset?
Well, to start, the two don’t even look similar enough to be echoes. Second, this Link has enough of his own material to draw from (Link to the Past/Between Worlds, Link’s Awakening, the Oracle games) that he doesn’t need to be an echo. Third, why does Smash 4 Link need to be his own character? He’s barely changed aside from his grab, his bombs, and some new animations.
 

Ben Holt

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Most underrepresented first-party franchise.

Mario: 9
:ultmario::ultluigi::ultpeach::ultdaisy::ultbowser::ultdoc::ultrosalina::ultbowserjr::ultpiranha:

Pokémon: 10
:ultpikachu::ultjigglypuff::ultmewtwo::ultpichu::ultsquirtle::ultivysaur::ultcharizard::ultlucario::ultgreninja::ultincineroar:

Fire Emblem: 8
:ultmarth::ultlucina::ultroy::ultchrom::ultike::ultrobin::ultcorrin::ultbyleth:

Zelda (Much bigger franchise than Fire Emblem): 6
:ultlink::ultzelda::ultsheik::ultganondorf::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink:
Note no new characters since Brawl. To bring it up to 10, add Impa, Tetra, Tingle, and Midna & Wolf Link.
 

Quillion

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Well, to start, the two don’t even look similar enough to be echoes.
ALttP Link at least is the same age as Zelda in the same game, and SSBU Zelda is somehow just as tall as TP Zelda despite being much younger. It can work.

Second, this Link has enough of his own material to draw from (Link to the Past/Between Worlds, Link’s Awakening, the Oracle games) that he doesn’t need to be an echo.
Fair enough, but I'm taking the cynical option here since clearly Young Link and Toon Link do have their own material, but none of it is recognized in favor of making them semi-echoes.

Third, why does Smash 4 Link need to be his own character? He’s barely changed aside from his grab, his bombs, and some new animations.
Because I just want a classic adult Link. BotW Link in Ultimate is in an uncanny valley of being too different to be an appreciable substitute (and yes, that includes his right-handed animations) and not being different enough to truly represent his own game. If this is the road we're taking with Link, I'd like to see the Smash 4 model, animations, and coding be recycled to be an echo for current Link in some form, preferably with an OoT alt. At least they would be more different than most echoes function-wise thanks to the hookshot grab, normal bombs, and no double-arrow mechanic.
 

YoshiandToad

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It's not great chief.

If there was no demand for any Zelda character maybe I'd feel differently, but...

Impa seems to continue being a more notable character in Zelda titles than she once was, especially thanks to spinoffs giving her more playable roles such as Hyrule Warriors, Age of Calamity and Cadence of Hyrule.

Skull Kid and Midna despite being one and dones still have a lot of fan demand even to this day. In a world where Chrom can get in on his lasting popularity despite everyone else being the latest characters, why can't the Zelda cast do similar?

Shiek is a one and done thus the argument against one offs from Zelda always rang hollow to me. Especially since Sheik typically appears before Zelda in the roster meaning Sheik was likely added first despite being the least important character of the current roster.

Then there's the trio of Links who are largely the same move wise but with stat and frame data alterations. It's fine, but Young Link feels pretty redundant now we have Toon Link who at least offers a more visually interesting artstyle comparitively. Hyrule Warriors showcased they could offer some variety, but Smash never capitlised on it.
 

Otoad64

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Shiek is a one and done thus the argument against one offs from Zelda always rang hollow to me. Especially since Sheik typically appears before Zelda in the roster meaning Sheik was likely added first despite being the least important character of the current roster.
the order is determined by when they first were revealed to the public, the reason shiek is first is because she shows up a couple seconds before zelda in the intro of melee (which btw is also the reveal trailer for melee)
 

Diddy Kong

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Exactly. If you don't count spin offs and cameos, all of these characters are one offs:

:ultness::ultlucas::ulticeclimbers::ultmarth::ultroy::ultike::ultrobin::ultlucina::ultcorrin::ultchrom::ultbyleth::ultduckhunt::ultcloud::ultsephiroth::ulthero3::ulthero4::ulthero2::ulthero::ultsheik:

Lol! It's a joke at this point to say one offs can't get in when this many have so far. People man.
Not Ike. Ike is the main character of two Fire Emblem titles. Marth also have two titles, and a lot of ports.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Not Ike. Ike is the main character of two Fire Emblem titles. Marth also have two titles, and a lot of ports.
Well, my bad than. I never played any of the Fire Emblem games besides Warriors and I assumed most of the Fire Emblem protagonists were one offs.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Pretty damn good.

It's outright missing Pig Ganon, but it could use a bit more with Tingle and Impa. They're the three biggest names who aren't playable yet.

Young Link and Toon Link could use a bit more variety. I get the idea of having the same basic moves for the Specials, as they are iconic to every playable variant of Link. Except Zelda II's, mainly, and he's loosely there at best(Upstab and Downstab are practically it).

Sheik definitely stays. Also, if Age of Calamity is canon, which it's hard to say, that would make Sheik no longer a one-off. However, she's a core part of why Zelda got in and vice versa. Because it was a moveset concept that required both. It wasn't "one or the other". It's a legacy idea that got removed since 4, but they both stand out much better separated and are now representing a different set of games, so it works out well. I am for cutting the Phantom Knight attack, but only if it means it's being given to Toon Zelda. Otherwise, no point to removing it. It does its job.

Ganondorf is almost perfect, but the Up Tilt needs to get out. It doesn't have super armor like Warlock Punch either, and it's just a terrible move. He feels really fun to use and represents what he is, a powerhouse with a murderous intent. At most I'd give him otherwise his Electric Ball. It's hardly a signature move either, but he uses it more than Dead Man's Volley(which would be an awful move anyway. The whole point is that almost anyone can reflect it with weapons/items, making it hard to balance. There's little point to it. At least the Electric Ball is similar but easy to work in correctly. It also could work as something only doable if he holds down his Neutral Attack button, since Thunder Punch is his basic A move. This would not mess with his working movest too much while improving him a lot more). Dark Dive also would be more logical to change as a Teleport move or a Flying Strike like Dark Fists.

For me, the best Impa is the one from the Oracle games. She barely is similar to Sheik and wouldn't work as an Echo at this point. In most cases they don't even have near identical proportions(or basically the same bodyshape). I could see her using Sheik as a base for a clone, or be used to make one like Ness, who barely resembles Mario to begin with.

Tingle I'd choose his MM design, but figuring out a good moveset isn't easy. Namely a coherent one, not throwing random moves on. The moveset has to flow right. Which is why "canon moves" alone doesn't work. Hyrule Warriors is a good place to start, since it flows well.

I wouldn't have an issue seeing various others, but I'm of the opinion that it's all Champions or none. Nobody holds any legitimately higher importance than the other 3, so it doesn't make any sense to me to give one special treatment. If and only if the Zelda series starts doing that would it feel justified. They were designed as equals and always were treated as them in the series. That's why they make more sense as Spirits. At the very least there's tons of generic species to work with, as well as the various Sages who were never treated as straight equals. Impa is blatantly the most important, after all.
 

MarioMeteor

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ALttP Link at least is the same age as Zelda in the same game, and SSBU Zelda is somehow just as tall as TP Zelda despite being much younger. It can work.
Zelda also has no source material to draw from because she doesn’t fight in her series, therefore you can slap the same moveset on a different design and no one will complain (although this may not be the case now because of the Hyrule Warriors games).

Fair enough, but I'm taking the cynical option here since clearly Young Link and Toon Link do have their own material, but none of it is recognized in favor of making them semi-echoes.
Well, the point is to improve the representation of the Zelda series in Smash. You don’t do that by adding even more half-assed clones.
Because I just want a classic adult Link. BotW Link in Ultimate is in an uncanny valley of being too different to be an appreciable substitute (and yes, that includes his right-handed animations) and not being different enough to truly represent his own game. If this is the road we're taking with Link, I'd like to see the Smash 4 model, animations, and coding be recycled to be an echo for current Link in some form, preferably with an OoT alt. At least they would be more different than most echoes function-wise thanks to the hookshot grab, normal bombs, and no double-arrow mechanic.
Yeah, that’d be a waste of resources. Might as well put Dry Bowser in the game and give him the same moves as Brawl Bowser, then. It’s redundant, although I do agree that Link should draw a little more from the game he comes from. It seems like such an easy choice to give him Revali’s Gale instead of Spin Attack, but I guess they really didn’t want to change the function of the character.
 

Quillion

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Well, the point is to improve the representation of the Zelda series in Smash. You don’t do that by adding even more half-assed clones.
The ideal is certainly giving all Links different specials and a few different normals at minimum, but clearly Sora Ltd. is not going for the ideal.

Yeah, that’d be a waste of resources. Might as well put Dry Bowser in the game and give him the same moves as Brawl Bowser, then.
I actually wouldn't mind that method of bringing back Melee Bowser's moves, though I would prefer that Bowser be out-and-out reverted to his Melee animations (except his old run; I can live without that).

The difference is that much of Ultimate was made by recycling the assets of Smash 4. At minimum, they could easily recycle the model and animations of Smash 4 Link and create an echo. There is no preexisting model or animation for Dry Bowser, so that wouldn't work as easily.
 

Oracle Link

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personally I think :ultlink: should be a seperate character than normal link, with a botw based moveset, instead of this half step they've taken in ultimate. give him the paraglider, all the runes, let him shield surf. and have there just be a normal link with normal bombs, hookshot, and all the other classic stuff. I mean they kinda did this in ultimate with :ultyounglink::ulttoonlink: but all they did was change the bombs and remove the hookshot, and if anything those two should use stuff from their games. Basically, we should have link and botw link seperately
if :4link::ultlink: are in the same slot the Design Should look like this
Sword = Always Master
Bombs = Remote (use teir Minish Cap Design with:4link:)
Bow = Works like :ultlink:
Boomerang = Works like:4link: has a Ancient look in :ultlink:

Spin Attack= has little Lightnings in :ultlink: purely Cosmetic

Final Smash= Light Arrow:4link:/Ancient Arrow:ultlink:

Voice= Depends on Costume

Costumes =
Comes in Green/Red/blue/Oni:4link:
comes in Green/Zora/Shadow:4link:
Comes in Green/ Yellow:4link:
Comes in Blue/Hylia Armour Colored/SS Beginning Outfit:ultlink:
Botw 2 Cant work Probably because of the Ghost Hand (which is Probably a Gimmick)

I always Thought Smash needs More Alts and Considering this Character is Named Link it makes Sense
 

Otoad64

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if :4link::ultlink: are in the same slot the Design Should look like this
Sword = Always Master
Bombs = Remote (use teir Minish Cap Design with:4link:)
Bow = Works like :ultlink:
Boomerang = Works like:4link: has a Ancient look in :ultlink:

Spin Attack= has little Lightnings in :ultlink: purely Cosmetic

Final Smash= Light Arrow:4link:/Ancient Arrow:ultlink:

Voice= Depends on Costume

Costumes =
Comes in Green/Red/blue/Oni:4link:
comes in Green/Zora/Shadow:4link:
Comes in Green/ Yellow:4link:
Comes in Blue/Hylia Armour Colored/SS Beginning Outfit:ultlink:
Botw 2 Cant work Probably because of the Ghost Hand (which is Probably a Gimmick)

I always Thought Smash needs More Alts and Considering this Character is Named Link it makes Sense
yeah but they shouldn't be in the same slot imo, though having different links as costumes is a good idea
 

Oracle Link

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yeah but they shouldn't be in the same slot imo, though having different links as costumes is a good idea
The problem is having 3 Links could be too much and theyre more Interesting Options
Yeah he really should get this Sword/shield (i hope we agree atleast on this)
1609357416385.jpeg
or
"classic Link" (the other Link designs that are Classic are a bit Outdated Nintendo themselves Said the Artworks werent the best at the Time)
with Masks ( maybe a little too "special")

Speaking of Special Considering That most BOTW Abilitys have a Good Chance of not returning in Botw 2 and that more than 2-3 LInks are to much maybe the Links in Smash should be "Conservative" You know 2 normal Arms Bombs, Boomerang, maybe a Magic Rood, Hammer, Bow, Hook Shoot maybe Deku Leaf / Paraglider but Cryonis,Magnet and Stasis are Probably Gimmicks

So it could be
1 Pragmatic Link (adult/ Cool)
1 Pragmatic Link (kid/ Cute)
1 Crazy Link (maybe is optinal that includes MM(masks)/ Botw(Rues)
 

Otoad64

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The problem is having 3 Links could be too much and theyre more Interesting Options
Yeah he really should get this Sword/shield (i hope we agree atleast on this)
View attachment 297776 or
"classic Link" (the other Link designs that are Classic are a bit Outdated Nintendo themselves Said the Artworks werent the best at the Time)
with Masks ( maybe a little too "special")

Speaking of Special Considering That most BOTW Abilitys have a Good Chance of not returning in Botw 2 and that more than 2-3 LInks are to much maybe the Links in Smash should be "Conservative" You know 2 normal Arms Bombs, Boomerang, maybe a Magic Rood, Hammer, Bow, Hook Shoot maybe Deku Leaf / Paraglider but Cryonis,Magnet and Stasis are Probably Gimmicks

So it could be
1 Pragmatic Link (adult/ Cool)
1 Pragmatic Link (kid/ Cute)
1 Crazy Link (maybe is optinal that includes MM(masks)/ Botw(Rues)
this is how I would do it:

standard Link can swap between Zelda 1,OOT,TP, and SS designs

then there is botw link (or as I like to call it "champion link") with a revamped moveset

and then either young or toon link with a revamped moveset that use their actual weapons as well as things from their game, not sure which one makes the most sense as toon link is probably more important to have but young link has more obvious moveset potential with the masks, though you could declone Toon Link and I think this video does a good job decloning him:
but yeah that's basically how I would handle the Links, depending on the size of the next games roster one of them could probably be taken out but that's best case scenario imo
 

Oracle Link

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Hm maybe i write down My ideal Zelda Representation
if :4link::ultlink: are in the same slot the Design Should look like this
Sword = Always Master
Bombs = Remote (use teir Minish Cap Design with:4link:)
Bow = Works like :ultlink:
Boomerang = Works like:4link: has a Ancient look in :ultlink:

Spin Attack= has little Lightnings in :ultlink: purely Cosmetic

Final Smash= Light Arrow:4link:/Ancient Arrow:ultlink:

Voice= Depends on Costume

Costumes =
Comes in Green/Red/blue/Oni:4link:
comes in Green/Zora/Shadow:4link:
Comes in Green/ Yellow:4link:
Comes in Blue/Hylia Armour Colored/SS Beginning Outfit:ultlink:
Botw 2 Cant work Probably because of the Ghost Hand (which is Probably a Gimmick)

I always Thought Smash needs More Alts and Considering this Character is Named Link it makes Sense

Diffrences to link
Smash Attacks= Spin Attack
Dash= Pegasus Boots
Up B=Fire Rod Propels you Upward
Side B= Magic Boomerang is freely Controlable
B= Bow Fully charging for Bomb Arrows
Down B= Bombs Stronger but carried with both Hands overhead
Swap Hook = swaps Sides when Grapping
Glides with Rocs Cape
Costumes: (both use Mirror shield)
1609358797881.png
Main Costume uses Koholint Sword(green,Red,Blue,Shadow,Dark,Yellow)
uses Lokomo Sword (green, Red, Blue, Purple, Dark, Outset)
:ultzelda:stays the same outside of
Light Arrow F-Smash
Tp/oot Zelda Alt

stays the same Lookwise but has a Beard and Long (oot) Hairin half of his Alts
Moveset Changes
Smash Attacks: Use Trident instead of Sword
B: Dead Mans Volley
Side B: Trident Throw
Up B : Warp
Down B: Ganons old Side B


Moveset Changes: Include Yiga/Shiekah Reffrences
Alternativ Character Shiek (has the same Moveset so doesnt need to be an Echo Look at Bowser JR)



Newcomer:
Skull Kid
Goron (has Costumes Based on important Gorons
Midna
Vaati

Do you want me to Flesh that out i will make that tommorow!
Edit: i MADE THIS BEFORE THE LAST FEW mESSAGES!
 
Last edited:

Otoad64

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Hm maybe i write down My ideal Zelda Representation

Diffrences to link
Smash Attacks= Spin Attack
Dash= Pegasus Boots
Up B=Fire Rod Propels you Upward
Side B= Magic Boomerang is freely Controlable
B= Bow Fully charging for Bomb Arrows
Down B= Bombs Stronger but carried with both Hands overhead
Swap Hook = swaps Sides when Grapping
Glides with Rocs Cape
Costumes: (both use Mirror shield)
View attachment 297778Main Costume uses Koholint Sword(green,Red,Blue,Shadow,Dark,Yellow)
uses Lokomo Sword (green, Red, Blue, Purple, Dark, Outset)
:ultzelda:stays the same outside of
Light Arrow F-Smash
Tp/oot Zelda Alt

Moveset Changes: Include Yiga/Shiekah Reffrences
Alternativ Character Shiek (has the same Moveset so doesnt need to be an Echo Look at Bowser JR)
Newcomer:
Skull Kid
Goron (has Costumes Based on important Gorons
Midna
Vaati

Do you want me to Flesh that out i will make that tommorow!
I think you messed up the ganondorf part
 

Oracle Link

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I think you messed up the ganondorf part
Fixed!
Hm maybe i write down My ideal Zelda Representation
if :4link::ultlink: are in the same slot the Design Should look like this
Sword = Always Master
Bombs = Remote (use teir Minish Cap Design with:4link:)
Bow = Works like :ultlink:
Boomerang = Works like:4link: has a Ancient look in :ultlink:

Spin Attack= has little Lightnings in :ultlink: purely Cosmetic

Final Smash= Light Arrow:4link:/Ancient Arrow:ultlink:

Voice= Depends on Costume

Costumes =
Comes in Green/Red/blue/Oni:4link:
comes in Green/Zora/Shadow:4link:
Comes in Green/ Yellow:4link:
Comes in Blue/Hylia Armour Colored/SS Beginning Outfit:ultlink:
Botw 2 Cant work Probably because of the Ghost Hand (which is Probably a Gimmick)

I always Thought Smash needs More Alts and Considering this Character is Named Link it makes Sense

Diffrences to link
Smash Attacks= Spin Attack
Dash= Pegasus Boots
Up B=Fire Rod Propels you Upward
Side B= Magic Boomerang is freely Controlable
B= Bow Fully charging for Bomb Arrows
Down B= Bombs Stronger but carried with both Hands overhead
Swap Hook = swaps Sides when Grapping
Glides with Rocs Cape
Costumes: (both use Mirror shield)
View attachment 297778Main Costume uses Koholint Sword(green,Red,Blue,Shadow,Dark,Yellow)
uses Lokomo Sword (green, Red, Blue, Purple, Dark, Outset)
:ultzelda:stays the same outside of
Light Arrow F-Smash
Tp/oot Zelda Alt

stays the same Lookwise but has a Beard and Long (oot) Hairin half of his Alts
Moveset Changes
Smash Attacks: Use Trident instead of Sword
B: Dead Mans Volley
Side B: Trident Throw
Up B : Warp
Down B: Ganons old Side B


Moveset Changes: Include Yiga/Shiekah Reffrences
Alternativ Character Shiek (has the same Moveset so doesnt need to be an Echo Look at Bowser JR)



Newcomer:
Skull Kid
Goron (has Costumes Based on important Gorons
Midna
Vaati

Do you want me to Flesh that out i will make that tommorow!

Bonus Round:
Stages:
Ganons Castle (similar to Hyrule Tempel)
Clock Town Replaces Great Bay
Death Mountain (Goron Themed)
Hyrule Castle (botw)

Returning:
Skyloft
Hyrule Tempel
Spirit Train
Pirate Ship
Bridge of Eldin

Extra Extra Round ZZZZZ im tired:
Mii Costumes:
Zora (brawler)
Oktorock Hat
Phantom Armor(sword)
 
Last edited:

RetrogamerMax

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So even though Pig Ganon and Ganondorf are the same character, would you guys say Pig Ganon is more iconic than Ganondorf? Because I would say he is since he's been in more games than Ganondorf and the name Ganon even in titles with Ganondorf in it has been thrown around more than his human name.
 

Otoad64

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So even though Pig Ganon and Ganondorf are the same character, would you guys say Pig Ganon is more iconic than Ganondorf? Because I would say he is since he's been in more games than Ganondorf and the name Ganon even in titles with Ganondorf in it has been thrown around more than his human name.
ganon has been in more games but ganondorf has been in some of the most critically acclaimed and legendary (ha get it cuz it's the lege- ok i'll stop) games of all time so it's a hard call
 

RetrogamerMax

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ganon has been in more games but ganondorf has been in some of the most critically acclaimed and legendary (ha get it cuz it's the lege- ok i'll stop) games of all time so it's a hard call
I mean, Ganon was in LoZ, Zelda II, ALTTP, LA, OoA, OoS, FS, FSA and ALBW while Ganondorf has been in Oot, WW, and TP. I think Ganon has the bigger track record despite Ganondorf having Ocarina of Time.
 

StrangeKitten

Smash Lord
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It's... passable. Decent. But could stand to be a lot better! Here's what I would do:
Current Roster:
:ultlink: Leave the same
:ultzelda: Leave the same
:ultganondorf: Overhaul a ton of his moves. Give him a volley for neutral special, something better for down special. A float not as good as Peach's but still useful. Different up air and nair that are dark-magic based. An up tilt that is fast and good for covering platforms like almost the entire rest of the cast has.
:ultsheik: Leave the same
:ultyounglink: No more boomerang for side special or bomb for down special. Side special is now bombchu that works as a hybrid of sorts between bombs and boomerang. Down special is now Mask Transformation. You're able to choose between Deku, Goron, and Zora, complete with their own movesets (except of course, they lack down specials because that's reserved for transforming back into YL). I know adding basically three characters is a lot, but it would make him so much more unique and dynamic!
:ulttoonlink: I'd like to see the Wind Waker in his moveset somehow. Kinda tough, since you couldn't base his moveset around it, because he represents a pretty wide variety of games... But I feel like something could be done here.

New Characters:
Impa: My idea for her is she could be a semiclone of Shiek. Make her slightly slower, with more damage output and kill power, but worse combo game. Maybe steal a Ganondorf move or two where appropriate, like perhaps the smashes. Faster than Ganondorf but less kill power.

Skull Kid and Majora: They'd be about what you'd expect. Heavily dark mage-focused, and you could have them transform into one of the boss phases. I think I'd like it best if it worked similarly to Sephiroth's OWA.

Midna and Wolf Link: Yeah, a 4th Link, but it's the wolf form, so it would be quite unique. A Duck Hunt/Banjo and Kazooie-style duo.
 

Quillion

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What's with this outpouring of love for Impa lately? It seems to have happened just now, when before everyone was focused on one-shots, especially Skull Kid.

If it's only because she's recurring, I'll bring it up again: does Beedle or Anna deserve to be in Smash?
 

Otoad64

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Who Knows Where?
What's with this outpouring of love for Impa lately? It seems to have happened just now, when before everyone was focused on one-shots, especially Skull Kid.

If it's only because she's recurring, I'll bring it up again: does Beedle or Anna deserve to be in Smash?
actually impa has been talked about since the smash 4 days, and it's not just that she's reaccuring, she's also important, beedle is not important or memorable for that matter, nor is he popular. also what would beedle even do? can you think of a decent moveset for beedle?
 

Quillion

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actually impa has been talked about since the smash 4 days, and it's not just that she's reaccuring, she's also important, beedle is not important or memorable for that matter, nor is he popular. also what would beedle even do? can you think of a decent moveset for beedle?
She's just an exposition dumper though. That's a role that can be played by anyone.
 

Otoad64

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She's just an exposition dumper though. That's a role that can be played by anyone.
yeah, but she plays it, also does other stuff in games like skyward sword where she protects zelda, or in the hyrule warriors games, which is where i would prefer her to get her moveset from
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
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Whoops, I thought they were still using Sheik in every Hyrule Warriors games.

That said, why are you talking to me like that? You need to seriously cull the aggressive attitude. Oh no, I made an error. That's no reason to snap at me over nothing.

That said, Quillion, if that's the way you think is appropriate to respond to someone, and I have noticed you taking your bias in a lot of aggressive manners throughout this topic alone, I see no reason to entertain your points. There's nothing wrong with bias. There is something wrong with being aggressive about it.

Impa is highly important to the franchise. She's the most important supporting character. And no, not "anyone can play exposition". That's not correct. Those other people don't go in her spot. She's recognizable and fairly iconic because she's the actual one there. You don't get that with others. She's not the Fairy companion. Sure, she has yet to get her own game, but that's fine too. I mean, Tingle is the only one to do so other than Zelda and Link, but not even all of Tingle's games got localized, and Europe only got some instead of all too. Which is too bad.

On another note, calling Impa "just exposition" is clearly incorrect. She's actually been upgraded every since OOT into an important protector. She was only purely exposition in a tiny few games. So basically Zelda 1, 2, and the CD-i games. I forget if she's in Zelda's Adventure, but that's 4 games. That's not a lot. The Oracle games don't make her much better than that, but she is also controlled by an evil character, giving her another role in the story.

As for Pig Ganon, he's an important and distinctive form from Ganondorf. Same person, different fictional character overall with different abilities... and they barely have any of the same moves in canon. In fact, about the only thing they really can do is float around and both know how to wield weapons very well. That's literally it. They have different types of magic(as one is more based upon the abilities related to the Triforce of Power, being Ganon, while Ganondorf is a Dark Mage who gets physical quite easily. One thing that's interesting about that is that in Wind Waker, Ganondorf literally punches Link out as well as backhands him. Now, was any of this inspired by Melee making him more physical than normal? Or was he always planned to be a brawler along with a magic user? Considering he has artwork of him doing an overhead punch, and his only tech demo fight being a sword yet a physical one, it's most likely he was designed to be both physical and magic-based. This might also be why he was such an easy clone in Smash, because it wasn't remotely against his character design. He was never focused only on magic. That's Ganon, a different form. Just like you wouldn't expert Zelda to run around like a ninja either. She's at most been somewhat of an adventurer like Link, in the TV shows, non-canon CD-i games, and BOTW, while still having magical abilities. But she's no ninja. Sheik is quitttttte specific in that regard. She was taught by the OOT Impa in the ways of the Sheikah, hence the name given).

Now I'm going to speak a bit more on why Impa really makes little sense as an Echo. That was only one game she was slightly similar to Sheik. In later games, her bodyshape is not only extremely different, but she's gained tons of very different abilities. And they aren't that alike bodyshape-wise in OOT alone(but probably enough for an echo treatment). However, they'd likely use one of her later or more popular appearances, when she's literally nothing like Sheik. Sheik to put it simply is not a magic user. She's a martial artist that only had one spell "turn into Zelda", which is gone now. And technically Light Arrows if you super stretch it. Impa however is a magic user, and as she can time travel, that means she can use magic in real any form she has. Which means she already has multiple abilities that make her more than a simple ninja. That's just one small thing she can do. In some games, she's an elderly woman with a cane. In another two, she's a stout woman with muscles. In some spin-offs she's muscular, but has a much more fit figure and slightly resembles her OOT bodyshape. And then there's Skyward Sword and BOTW which even further differentiates her. Obviously I'm a fan of her Oracle design the most, as it's not just a heavily underused design, but it's a nice cross between her elderly and young forms. And she's more than capable of fighting toe to toe with tons of characters that way. Nothing prevents her from being a collaboration of her various abilities, especially since the time stuff suggests she's not a legacy character but the same Impa throughout the games. I'm not sure if this is actually the case(Hyrule Warriors would be the case too, since it's only one Impa. She's like Ganon/dorf in that regard. There is only one).
 

Rango the Mercenary

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We could have more. Quite frankly, I'm rather surprised we don't have an ALttP/ALBW Link that uses the Tornado Rod.

Majora would be a perfect villain. Fight in his Majora's Wrath form of course.

Fierce Deity Link would make a perfect Final Smash.

As for fighting characters, outside of Majora, I don't see anyone terribly interesting to add. Toon Zelda and Toon Ganondorf would just give us another variation of the characters we already have. On the flipside, the latter would not only provide a new fighting style but another chance for him to be actually good for once.
 

Quillion

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That said, why are you talking to me like that? You need to seriously cull the aggressive attitude. Oh no, I made an error. That's no reason to snap at me over nothing.
Sorry if I came off as aggressive. I probably should've just said "Sheik is not in AoC." But I was sincerely just trying to make sure they didn't just discover Sheik in AoC as a secret non-canon fanservice addition. It would've been great, have to admit.
 

Oracle Link

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What's with this outpouring of love for Impa lately? It seems to have happened just now, when before everyone was focused on one-shots, especially Skull Kid.

If it's only because she's recurring, I'll bring it up again: does Beedle or Anna deserve to be in Smash?
Beedle is Tingle without any Abilitys but Impa/Skullkid have Abilitys
also whos Ana?
 

Mapusaurus

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Most underrepresented first-party franchise.

Mario: 9
:ultmario::ultluigi::ultpeach::ultdaisy::ultbowser::ultdoc::ultrosalina::ultbowserjr::ultpiranha:

Pokémon: 10
:ultpikachu::ultjigglypuff::ultmewtwo::ultpichu::ultsquirtle::ultivysaur::ultcharizard::ultlucario::ultgreninja::ultincineroar:

Fire Emblem: 8
:ultmarth::ultlucina::ultroy::ultchrom::ultike::ultrobin::ultcorrin::ultbyleth:

Zelda (Much bigger franchise than Fire Emblem): 6
:ultlink::ultzelda::ultsheik::ultganondorf::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink:
Note no new characters since Brawl. To bring it up to 10, add Impa, Tetra, Tingle, and Midna & Wolf Link.
Just as a rule, you shouldn't compare a franchises representation to Fire Emblem because they are grossly overrepresented imo Kirby, Xenoblade and maybe even Donkey Kong should get reps before Zelda
 

Oracle Link

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Just as a rule, you shouldn't compare a franchises representation to Fire Emblem because they are grossly overrepresented imo Kirby, Xenoblade and maybe even Donkey Kong should get reps before Zelda
Why is Everyone so obsessed about Xenoblade it only has 3 Games and Mother has only 1 unique Character and 1 semi Echo Kirby makes a lot of sense but if you think about it Both Zelda and Kirby have 3 People/Movesets made for them so both Zelda And Kirby should have gotten at least 2 Reps
 

Depressed Gengar

Hana Is Best Girl
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Yeah, Xenoblade of all things doesn't need more representation, and it definitely isn't among the "most underrepresented series" some people like to set it as. It's only a three game series that's still niche. DK, Kirby, and even Yoshi are more underrepresented. Granted, each of them only need about one more character each, but that's still more than Xenoblade needs.
 
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