Event - MLG Anaheim 2014 Your experiences on MLG's stagelist?

[Amazing Ampharos]

Now that the 2010 season is over, we've had 5 MLG events with the somewhat liberal stage list. It employs 9 starters and has a few counterpicks that are rare in many regions: PictoChat, Pokemon Stadium 2, Norfair, and Green Greens. We could argue until our faces turn blue about philosophy, but I'm making a thread here to ask about what people actually experienced. Did anyone have any notable games on those four stages as either positive or negative experiences, which characters were used, and can anyone describe how it went? Did anyone have any particularly notable game 1 matches that seemed influenced by the starter list, and was it a positive or negative experience (and how?)?

I'd like to again implore people to only talk about actual experiences, not what you "heard" or what your opinion on the stages is, etc. Personally, the only event I attended was Columbus, and while I played quite a bit on Green Greens and Norfair using G&W against assorted other characters, none of the games were memorable either way. How about you guys? What do you have to share in terms of your stage experiences?

 

[Ripple]

I lost a game in tournament on pictochat because I flew off the stage and right before I grabbed the ledge it decided to be the transformation where it splits the stage diagonally. causing me to skip right over the ledge. ( it wasn't even drawn yet btw) by the time I realized it and up-b'd, I got trapped under it as marth. probably lost the SET because of it

 

[napZzz]

there were alot of really dirty things the sonics did on pictochat and a good amount of norfair time outs if I recall

utdzac got gayed on green greens vs. mikehaze if I recall

 

[Psychoace]

Strike Norfair against wario ALWAYS. Out of like all the matches I saw take place here it almost always ended in a time out. poor poor CO18

I love pictochat but that's a Texas thing.

I hated playing on stadium 2 some characters can really abuse the wind transformation and stall in it as well.

metaknights 2gud on green greens.

 

[Eddie G]

The stagelist didn't pose any particular problems for me when I played in Columbus. Then again, I'm a Midwest player and have a lot of experience on every one of these stages (although I still prefer to play on SV against every matchup, including matchups like ICs; it's just a personal comfort thing). Some characters exploited certain strategies on the stages (Sonic/Picto, MK/Wario/Norfair, etc.) but it really isn't all that different from MK exploiting his excellent aerial game on RC or Diddy/Falco exploiting their strong horizontal control on FD/SV/and Battlefield in Falco's case. All in all, I say the stagelist was fairly successful.

I know there will still be a lot of fallback from players based on either their own personal experience on the stages or what have you, but here's to hoping that others will be open minded and truly analytical about their experience on the stages and what they bring to (or may take away from) competitive play.

 

[Poltergust]

I think that Pictochat and PS2 are perfectly fine stages. Never had any problems with them. They make good counterpick stages.

Actually, the MLG stage list would have been perfect if Norfair and Green Greens were not legal. I saw some really stupid things going on in those stages (ESAM vs. Gnes WF Round 4 in Norfair... ), and while stupid things can happen in Pictochat and PS2 they aren't nearly as harmful as some of the things Norfair and Green Greens can do.

 

[Eddie G]

I think that Pictochat and PS2 are perfectly fine stages. Never had any problems with them. They make good counterpick stages.

Actually, the MLG stage list would have been perfect if Norfair and Green Greens were not legal. I saw some really stupid things going on in those stages (ESAM vs. Gnes GF Round 4 in Norfair... ), and while stupid things can happen in Pictochat and PS2 they aren't nearly as harmful as some of the things Norfair and Green Greens can do.

I disagree. Norfair and Picto are about even in the jank department; Norfair's hazards are slow enough to react to and are able to be used as assistance in a fight just like Picto's hazards. Both are pretty solid counterpick stages, they just have different types of stage control involved.

 

[Poltergust]

Well, none of Pictochat's hazards can kill you unless you are already in kill percentage, and most of them are pretty avoidable. Norfair has hard-to-avoid hazards that can kill around 60%.

Even without taking the hazards into account, Norfair definitely has a worse stage design than Pictochat, which can polarize a ton of match-ups.

 

[Ussi]

but but.. A stage that is only platforms *drools*

 

[Eddie G]

Well, none of Pictochat's hazards can kill you unless you are already in kill percentage, and most of them are pretty avoidable. Norfair has hard-to-avoid hazards that can kill around 60%.

Even without taking the hazards into account, Norfair definitely has a worse stage design than Pictochat, which can polarize a ton of match-ups.

60%? Really? I'm Peach and I don't usually die from hazards on the stage until I'm well into the 90s, and that's if I get hit by them. How are they so hard to avoid?

I still don't see how it would polarize matchups any more than Picto's stage design, or even FD's for that matter.

 

[Poltergust]

60%? Really? I'm Peach and I don't usually die from hazards on the stage until I'm well into the 90s, and that's if I get hit by them. How are they so hard to avoid?

I still don't see how it would polarize matchups any more than Picto's stage design, or even FD's for that matter.

Oh, if only I could show you that ESAM vs. Gnes match on that stage...

I don't know if it got recorded or not, though.

 

[mikeHAZE]

there were alot of really dirty things the sonics did on pictochat and a good amount of norfair time outs if I recall

utdzac got gayed on green greens vs. mikehaze if I recall

he picked it lmao

 

[Psychoace]

I've been subject to some pretty fubar stuff on pictochat, but I still like it. I've been backthrowed off the stage as the spikes on the side appear i'm just under it so it registers as a spike and I die at like 50%

Then you have **** like this lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcojcb7ZMxc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWWw-fYM0WI&feature=related

 

[Poltergust]

Actually, both of those deaths could have been easily avoided with good DI in the first video and knowledge of the stage in the second video.

Want to see a video in which someone gets royally screwed over because of the stage? Watch this video of me vs. Denti (sorry Denti ).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyBpo2DVsi8

Still, things such as those shown in this video happen very rarely.

 

[Sinister Slush]

My only problem with counterpicks was probably Green Greens and...Norfair.
Green Greens has ZOMG LIEK HEALING APPLES and solid ones to throw at people, random blocks falling down Yoshi doesn't like when he's trying to Double Jump back up.

As for Norfair I like the stage just easy to run and stall people out, also lava is quite exploitable even if you try to avoid it you'll still get trapped by it's gapping Maw somehow.

Pictochat I have hardly any problems with everyone knows to avoid the hazard zones even when they appear, just a tad bit of drawing and the players know what's coming up.

PS2 I like a bit Yoshi can play around it, and every character loves the Sliding ice scene, but I wouldn't take MK to PS2 when it's the (I think wind/air?) scene.

:320:

 

[Poltergust]

Slush, the Flying-type transformation in PS2 is MK's worst one.

 

[Mike2]

Oh, if only I could show you that ESAM vs. Gnes match on that stage...

I don't know if it got recorded or not, though.

haha here it is. Minute 3:50


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qin28Iltg4k

 

[Eddie G]

haha here it is. Minute 3:50


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qin28Iltg4k

Ok? Same thing is perfectly capable of happening on Brinstar.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Slush, the Flying-type transformation in PS2 is MK's worst one.

Haha... wut?
Doesn't that give MK like.. the whole time that transformation is up just to spam his F/U/Nair the whole time. Basically like a stall method, unless you think you can break though that and hit him.

:320:

 

[z00ted]

haha here it is. Minute 3:50


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qin28Iltg4k

Lol.

What is wrong with the lava saving Gnes, Poltergust?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Haha... wut?
Doesn't that give MK like.. the whole time that transformation is up just to spam his F/U/Nair the whole time. Basically like a stall method, unless you think you can break though that and hit him.

:320:

His terrible aerial mobility makes it so he can't hit you that much. If he uses any of his B moves, he's going to be floating to the ground for a long time. He's kinda a sitting duck...as long as you aren't close to him. >_>

 

[Poltergust]

Guys, it wasn't just 3:50. It was also 1:08, 1:14 (I think this one was literally unavoidable because of Pikachu's reduced ledge invicibility), 1:34, and 3:18.

I was watching that match and wondering, "Why is this stage legal? Way too many stupid things happened here."

Also, the lava in this stage and Brinstar are different. The lava in Brinstar has very little knockback and would only kill at about 180% or so. It's also extremely telegraphed and slow in rising. The lava in Norfair is not only stronger, but also goes up and down erratically.

 

[Raziek]

I took one of my opponents to Pictochat, and two stocked him, because he didn't know the stage, and played recklessly.

My experiences with the stagelist have been great.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Bottomline keep PS2, Ban norfair, and follow Canadas great ways and ban MK as well.

:320:

 

[san.]

I really don't like pictochat anymore. I used to think that there was plenty of time to react to stage transitions, and that the middle left side is a safe zone for many transformations, but transformations that create walls come up way to quickly, as well as any transformation with spikes.

I was just recovering normally on the left side, and right when I was about to upB as Ike, the slant transformation came, blocking my path to recovery. This was outside of reaction time and unpredictable. I have also seen people to a regular ledgehop just to have the spikes from the ground appear and kill them for a simple ledge hop.

Most transformations are okay, but a good number are just awful. I tolerate the stage though, even though it's pretty much as far as I go as allowing a stage like that.

 

[Krystedez]

Ban norfair,

:320:

I will shoot you with an arrow from across the other side of the world looped 20 times...


in your sleep.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Nothing bad happened with the stages. People think MK dominated them, but he didn't. Did you see MKs CPing GG and Norfair? No, they went back to RC and Brinstar if they could. No character dominated, they just gave other characters more options for CPs.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I will shoot you with an arrow from across the other side of the world looped 20 times...


in your sleep.

Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qin28Iltg4k
All that timing out, and look at the saves dat lava does!

:320:

 

[TP]

I survived Norfair's big lava wave on a top platform at 150, then 10 seconds later I survived the ground lava at 174. So uhhh... I'm pretty fine with the stage. It loves me.

 

[Flayl]

Nothing bad happened with the stages. People think MK dominated them, but he didn't. Did you see MKs CPing GG and Norfair? No, they went back to RC and Brinstar if they could. No character dominated, they just gave other characters more options for CPs.

This is telling me something else other than that the stages are fine.

It's telling me MK's don't bother learning the new stages.

If you said they tried to CP them but other characters still came out on top, you would have a point.

In your defense, Tryant did CP Gnes to Norfair.

 

[Eddie G]

This is telling me something else other than that the stages are fine.

It's telling me MK's don't bother learning the new stages.

If you said they tried to CP them but other characters still came out on top, you would have a point.

In your defense, Tryant did CP Gnes to Norfair.

Either way, the proclaimed dominance that he would have on the stages has yet to be proven.

 

[Flayl]

Either way, the proclaimed dominance that he would have on the stages has yet to be proven.

I agree with that.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Norfair has hard-to-avoid hazards that can kill around 60%.

Oh, if only I could show you that ESAM vs. Gnes match on that stage...

I don't know if it got recorded or not, though.

Pretty much this. I was already leaning against Norfair due to the lava-flares. The lava on the side/top/bottom is fine, the ledges are fine, but the lava flares are RIDICULOUS and random and VERY hard to avoid, killing one or both players at very low percents... I do not support that stage at all because of that. I would love to, I like everything else about it and I love the uniqueness it brings, but those flares are WAY too random and influential.

I will say that I am starting to like Green Greens a bit more after MLG, its hazards are certainly borderline, but they aren't as bad as I previously thought. You can be hit into them, but that can mostly be attributed to your opponent, unlike the lava flares on Norfair that just randomly kill whoever they please



Overall, I think the MLG stagelist was fine, I only have minor qualms with it. Basically I just think Norfair should be removed and replaced with Japes--or at the very least, Japes should be allowed in addition to the existing stages.

If it was my own personal tournament, I might make the stagelist a little smaller, but I don't really think there's anything wrong with the MLG stagelist with the exception of what I mentioned above about Norfair and Japes.

Either way, the proclaimed dominance that he [MK] would have on the stages has yet to be proven.

Also this. It seems abundantly clear that these extra stages don't "make Metaknight even more broken" as so many sensationalists often claim.

 

[Teh Future]

nofair and gg were obviously stupid and broken before mlg, and after. it has nothing to do with mk

 

[Eddie G]

So was your main character.

 

[solecalibur]

Some characters exploited certain strategies on the stages (Sonic/Picto, MK/Wario/Norfair, etc.) but it really isn't all that different from MK exploiting his excellent aerial game on RC or Diddy/Falco exploiting their strong horizontal control on FD/SV/and Battlefield in Falco's case. All in all, I say the stagelist was fairly successful.

This should be noted , Kinda sick and tired of my "neutral" being a counter pick against my character game 1

 

[_OraNoS_]

Is anyone bothered by the stall Marth & Ike can do on Norfair with counter? [vid]

(focusing more on the stall inside of the side lava walls or inside the bottom lava that rises over the bottom platform)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

This should be noted , Kinda sick and tired of my "neutral" being a counter pick against my character game 1

I feel your pain. In my region, in many matchups I have the choice between the worst or the second-worst. Full stage striking FTW.

 

[Life]

@oranos: All characters can do that (PSing the lava), it's just easier for Marth and Ike due to counter.

Hasn't been proven broken.

 

[DaomarIsBear]

This should be noted , Kinda sick and tired of my "neutral" being a counter pick against my character game 1

Your character sucks. No johns.