Your dream patch! (Come predict the future)

[ToxoT]

make every feature like smash run/tour universal and add a story mode.

i imagine the only real reason this hasn't been done is to have the option to take more characters voted for in the ballot and sell them on eshop. subspace emissary was my favorite part of brawl, and the closest possible thing we have to it now is exclusive to the 3ds and has nowhere near as much depth. we have so many new characters, and i want to see the icons of gaming set aside their differences and fight against a common foe once again.

 

[Grass]

Dream patch, eh?

Okay, let's see. We nerf Greninja again, umm we buff Zelda and Kirby. Slightly buff meta knight's damage. Story mode DLC and I'm alright if this is done in parts. (Doubt this will happen cause I don't think the 3DS can't handle a story mode due to it's limited graphical capabilities. More reason to put this on Wii U only.)
Bring back Roy, cause everyone and their mom will

if this happens. And I think that's about it. I'm fairly satisfied with the game as it is.

P.S. Melee Physics for DLC?

 

[Pariahus]

Dream patch, eh?

Okay, let's see. We nerf Greninja again.....

Why do people want to nerf a chararacter thats been nerfeded into the ground? its not like greninja was like, say diddy kong before his nerfs....


Anywho i honestly forgot about that, yeah giving us back a subspace emmisary type mode would be nice, only thing i could think i'd like to change about is just slow down the needles speed a little, everything else about them would be fine if i just had a split second to get a spot dodge off on them or something...

Toggleable stage hazards is something i thought about before but ive had difficulty getting it into words, i think there should be a toggle or slider or something on what level of "interactive" you want a stage to be, full would be everything bosses instakill stage stuff etc., lots would be stuff like moving or falling platforms are still in but things like wariowares mom would be out. some would be just the vanilla stage with no moving parts, just the platforms and none would be just fd/battlefield(it would be a random battlefield/fd reskined to the stage like omega stages are now.)

could do with a little less endlag on all of her moves but that's about it imo.

@ Nintendrone regarding I didnt mean like a full sword moveset but just more actual usage of it, i knew about warlock blade but that's w/e both cuz i just hate customs(not for the reason most would think, it just feels like alot less effort was put into making custom moves for say, than say it just felt like alot of customs were just the vanilla moves with adjustments to damage knockback etc.) His choke does seem super fitting for him to do as a villian, but i do want his energy orb move from ocarian of time, maybe something like it starts slow and weak but gets faster and stronger everytime it gets hit but it would stun like a zamus stunner with more stuntime. ofc like in that game any hit will knock it back at its user(except another projectile ofc). maybe give gannon a quicker jab option or something so he doesnt just eat the move everytime because he cant hit it quick enough, in this game hes just a clone. a mix of magic, his sword and his body would be ideal i think.

oh and give shadow the hedgehog, tails and knuckles textures(i know we have a shadow colorset for him but it just feels kinda slapdash, plus this would be nice to do for the two sonic fans who like tails(don't really hate him myself just like to blame all my deaths in sonic games on tails for my own personal lolz.) 6 blue sonic "colors" 1 black and one silveer is just not enough real variety(apparently they could change the wristbands and shoes but not his colors?)

 

[Rikter]

Give Ike his jab cancel shenanigans from brawl. Aside from that hazard switch and tweaks to the weaker cast members would be preferred to nerfs to the top tiers except for some fringe cases.

 

[Deleted member]

obligatory "nerf greninja" joke

 

[Pariahus]

@Protoman8008 "Ok."

 

[ahannoush4]

• 
  • Slightly decrease endlag of Ftilt.
  • Slightly speed up Fsmash.
  • Slightly strengthen and speed up Usmash and Dsmash.
  • Slightly increase KBG on Dash Attack.
  • Slightly strengthen and increase range on Nair.
  • Slightly increase KBG but decrease KB on Uair.
  • Speed up and increase the meteor window of Dair.
  • Increase KBG of Uthrow.
  • Slightly speed up PK Flash, and don't make him helpless.
  • Allow PK Thunder to turn in a tighter circle.
  • Slightly increase run speed.

If this happens I wouldn't mind a nerf in KBG Bthrow

 

[wedl!!]

@ Admiral Pit why are you trying to remove what makes specific characters strong (///'s combo game, 's armor) instead of tweaking them to be less obnoxious? do you like homogenization or something?

two other things: /'s killthrows are fine.

stop kissing the virtual ground that walks on. you're giving the most changes to a character that you main, wow! no bias here. is bottom 5 in defaults, sure, but she doesn't need as much help as or (poor , literally only one change *cries*). ESPECIALLY considering that lightweight and superspeed are some of the best customs in the game, the character is in a fine spot for the future. sort of.


until 20zz occurs and everyone runs dongbender and wall of banana where customs will be dubbed degenerate and removed from the meta, that is.

 

[Admiral Pit]

@ wedl!! If you like Luigi D-throw comboing you til you're at 130% or kill range, then enjoy keeping him the way he is. Diddy I still do not enjoy dealing with personally, ZSS has its troubling moments in a way though I'm slowly getting used to, and Mario... with a combo that even works in lag, actually idk why I'm explaining these.

Regarding the kill throws, if it wasn't for the fact that the shieldgrab capabilities were buffed, I'd be less biased about B-throw kills, with the exception to keep DK's and Ness's (as much as I hate Ness's) as it's been their thing.

-For one, the title of this thread is "Your dream patch", as in patches you wish would happen. What I listed would be MY personal choices, and it's my opinion.
-For two, Palutena is NOT bottom 5 with defaults, and it has been proven that she's above that in the most recent tier lists. Those that say she is are either super old ones or bias against her.
-And keep in mind I do sympathize for Zelda and Samus, but I don't know much about them to be able to give my personal input on all the buffs they should have, same with some nerfs some other characters need. As for Lightweight and Superspeed, maybe you don't know, but not every Palutena is gonna use those 2 customs. Almost all of em will, yes, sometimes not when fighting certain characters (like Villager), but I personally prefer default Palutena or Palutena with Default, minus Counter, replaced with Fireworks, and I did say that Lightweight exploit with the soft platforms should be removed showing that I don't mind that being removed.

Various customs/sets have or are hard to counter, and this is true with Kongnado (especially on platformed stages), and that campy villager set people have been talking about (which can be countered by a specific custom Palutena that doesn't use SS or LW).


If you don't like my opinions or what MY dream patch would be like as the title implies, then that's fine, but you should not bash me for it.

 

[Infinite901]

-Make shield regenerate slower
-Add a bit more endlag on airdodges and spotdodges
-Remove rage entirely
-Remove Registeel from Kalos League
-Remove Flying Man from Magicant
-Remove Yellow Devil from Wily's Castle
-Weaken cars on Port Town
-Raise the ceiling on Tomodachi Life
-Remove the water from Jungle Japes, or at least make it less ****
-Smash Run Online/Smash Run Wii U
-Make customs easier to unlock
-Create more save slots for custom sets
-Just make customs more accessible in general
-Remove acid from Brinstar, or at least make it less intrusive
-Remove Shy Guys from Rainbow Road, or at least make them less intrusive
-Remove lava from Norfair, or at least make it less intrusive
-Remove caves of life from Gamer, Skyworld, Luigi's Mansion, Woolly World, MK8, and Arena Ferox
-Make 5-Volt less random; give Gamer a single set design
-Alpha version of stages: Battlefield reskins
-Put Support Ghost on timed interval (think PM Yoshi's Island 2)
-Remove destructible platforms from transformation two of Reset Bomb Forest
-Make transformation 3 of Paper Mario good. I don't know or care how, just do it.
-Remove hazards from Mushroom Kingdom U, or at least make them less intrusive
-Remove camping positions from Pilotwings altogether
-Make curve on Mario Galaxy and Windy Hill Zone more consistent
-Make Wuhu and Coliseum playable on 8-player
-Make Halberd's claw less random/more telegraphed/removed
-Make Zekrom and Reshiram less powerful (especially Reshiram) - make it switch between the two instead of being mutually exclusive
-Make Tortimer Island one single design, remove/nerf fruit, make both ledges grabbable
-Remove/nerf the more intrusive drawings on Pictochat
-Remove the walkoff and pellets from Distant Planet
-Better yet, instead of outright removing all these hazards, have a hazards on/off mode like from Smash Flash 2.

Wow... that's a lot more than I thought... and I'm not even up to the characters...


-Nerf the hell out the d-throw combos pls
-Make d-special easier to get lift from


-Improve his wall-jump


-BRING BACK THE BRAWL VOICE ACTOR DEAR GOD


-Make it so that Banana Peel -> f-smash isn't guaranteed


-Make her faster? Something more to differentiate from Marth


-Nerf the hell out of Timber Counter


-Give him custom moves
-Make Teleport do damage


-Make him able to copy customs


-Nerf Buff his recovery a bit
-Make Water Shuriken do damage while it charges


-Make his u-air animation more visible
-Get rid of the idle Robin secret tech glitch (not sure if this would apply to Ness or Robin tho)


-Make his hitboxes more reliable/not ****
-Nerf Kong Cyclone slightly (tbh I don't think it's too overpowered)


-Make Luma take longer to regenerate
-Nerf u-air


-Bring back Wectoring
-Give his f-smash slightly less end lag


-Fix the blind spot on the Phantom
-Make her f-smash aimable
-Make her customs not suck
-Increase weight and/or speed
-Make Din's Fire not put you into helpless animation


-Make his "shield-breaker" customs ACTUALLY break shields
-Make the sweet-spot on Shuttle Loop stronger


-Make down-b less safe
-Make up-b easier to DI out of


-Either nerf the books or make them easier to see
-Make Nosferatu not put you into helpless animation


-Give his moves slightly less start up lag
-Make it easier to switch between Arts


-Lower d-air landing lag
-Give f-tilt slightly more knockback
-Make her customs not suck
-Make Sing not suck

and
-Make f-smash string better


-Buff recovery
-Buff sword range
-Lower start/end lag


-Buff his recovery


-Give f-air a lasting hitbox to match it's animation
-Make d-smash hitbox (so it doesn't whiff at point blank)
-Lower end-lag on Oil Panic whiff


-Nerf f-air
-Make Bouncing Fish less safe


-Make Homing Attack better at homing
-Make him lighter


-Fix u-smash hitbox


-Nerf jab


-Make her customs not suck
-Buff Screw Attack


-Make Gordo slightly faster
-Buff Jet Hammer


-Nerf d-air
-Make it so he can't escape what would be a guaranteed combo for the rest of the cast
-Make his customs not suck


-Fix blind spot on Bonus Fruit and d-tilt


-Buff Counter
-Make Warp do damage
-Make Autoreticle come out slightly faster


-Give more horizontal control to Aether


-Give him a wall jump
-Make Wizard's Foot come out faster
-Strengthen f-tilt, u-air, n-air, and b-air

 

[erico9001]

'remove hazards' button

 

[RetroBro]

'remove hazards' button

Damn, I completely forgot about this one. THIS would make Megaman's and Samus's stages playable in tourneys probably.

 

[Infinite901]

Damn, I completely forgot about this one. THIS would make Megaman's and Samus's stages playable in tourneys probably.

Garden of Hope, Wily's Castle, Port Town, Pyrosphere, Norfair, Mushroom Kingdom U, Kalos League and possibly Orbital Gate would all be legal. Also people would have even less reason to ban Halberd or PS2.

And on 3DS Paper Mario, Brinstar, WarioWare, Tortimer Island, Magicant, Rainbow Road, Jungle Japes, Wily's Castle, Unova League, and Pictochat (maybe with some of the non-hazardous drawings?) woul all be really good.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

General:
— Slightly decrease hitlag and/or pause the input buffer timer during hitlag. It's incredibly frustrating to have inputs ignored because of hitlag when trying to mash for Mach Tornado, for example.
— Make Counters either ignore or instantly break shields.
— Decrease shield regeneration rate and very slightly increase shieldstun.
— Increase number of consecutive low-knockback hits required before the attacker is pushed back. Also increase the frequency with which hits have to occur before they are considered "consecutive". Bowser shouldn't be pushed back by his own fire breath, darn it!
— Add Brawl-style echo effect to those Final Smash quotes that currently lack it, such as Super Sonic activation.

Individual characters:

Spoiler

Samus:
— Make jab combo properly.
— Buff Charge Shot's KBG.
— Buff Super Missile damage and KBG.
— Less endlag and better homing on Homing Missile, along with slightly more damage.
— Decrease endlag on FTilt.
— Decrease endlag on Dash Attack and increased base knockback on initial hitbox.
— Decrease startup and endlag on DTilt, lower its KBG, and make its knockback purely vertical.
— Decrease startup on FAir.
— Buff Morph Bomb damage and base knockback/KBG, increase the amount of bounce Samus receives from being hit by her own Morph Bomb, decrease endlag on Morph Ball bounce, increase horizontal control on Morph Ball bounce.
— Increase roll speed.
— Make USmash connect more reliably.
— Increase DSmash range and KBG.

Mii Gunner:
— Make jab combo more reliably.
— Buff Charge Blast's damage and knockback. Make it equivalent to Samus's Charge Shot.
— Buff Super Missile damage and KBG slightly.
— Slightly more damage on Homing Missile.
— Allow vertical control of Stealth Burst, along with decreased startup, decreased delay between button release and detonation, increased damage, increased KBG, increased maximum range, and increased shield damage.
— Increase FTilt range or decrease startup/endlag.
— Slightly increase FSmash damage output and KBG.
— Make USmash connect more reliably and increase KBG a bit.

Mii Swordfighter:
— Less endlag on just about everything.
— Change FTilt animation to give more range and better disjoint.
— Increase range on Shuriken of Light, and have it always cause flinching even at close range.
— Allow aerial control after hitting with Airborne Assault. Remove helpless state caused by landing after Airborne Assault and sliding off of platform.
— Increase distance and speed of uncharged Slash Launcher.
— Increase damage, knockback, distance, and speed of charged Slash Launcher. Alternatively, give Slash Launcher decreasing endlag the more it's charged, turning it into a viable aerial pop-up and combo starter.
— Decrease startup of Power Thrust.
— Increase damage, base knockback, and KBG of sweetspotted Power Thrust.
— Increase damage and base knockback of non-sweetspotted Power Thrust.
— Make the dive angle of aerial Power Thrust significantly shallower.
— Add extra hitbox on ground-bounce when performing Skyward Slash Dash into the ground.
— Increase knockback on grounded Hero's Spin.
— Increase horizontal control during Stone Scabbard.
— Increase DSmash range, damage, and knockback.
— Make USmash connect more reliably and increase KBG.
— Increase BAir range, damage, and KBG.
— Slightly decrease FAir knockback and make the knockback angle slightly more horizontal.

Mii Brawler:
— Increase range of all tilts excluding UTilt.
— Change FTilt so that it deals more damage towards the tip of the kick instead of the base, as that's how roundhouse kicks work in real life.
— Decrease DAir's startup.
— Decrease endlag on Feint Jump.
— Increase distance of Onslaught.
— Allow Head-On Assault to ledge snap and allow horizontal influence.

Meta Knight:
— Increase sword reach.
— Put back Brawl sword sound effects. The legendary Galaxia is not a plastic toy!
— Decrease amount of mashing needed for Mach Tornado.
— Slightly increase Drill Rush's movement speed, and add a slight bit of immediate forward movement on startup just before the first hit.
— Add a slight step forward to FSmash when the hitbox comes out, effectively increasing the attack's range.
— Make "Shield Breaker" variant specials actually deal massive shield damage. Breaker Drill should cause enough shield push for all hits to connect and pop a shield.
— Add the unused alternate victory quote for Meta Knight vs. Kirby matchups. (Now, my power is without rival!)

Fox:
— Put back Brawl voice acting, or simply have the Smash 4 VA redo everything to sound non-stupid.
— Slightly decrease endlag on blaster and/or slightly increase range.
— Increase range and KBG of DSmash.

Ike:
— Put back Brawl sword sound effects.
— Increase vertical reach on Counter and increase active counter frames.
— Add the unused alternate Counter voice clips (Gotcha! You're through!) and choose between them at random. (Alternatively, put the "You're through!" clip on successfully landing the initiating hit of Great Aether.)
— Increase KBG of DSmash.

Falco:
— Decrease startup and endlag on blaster.
— Increase ground and air speed.
— Increase range and KBG of DSmash.
— Increase forward movement of FSmash prior to hitbox coming out, and also increase KBG.

Sonic:
— Change his Wait1 animation so that his other ground animations transition into it properly. (Only reason for not doing it the other way around is that the idle his animations transition to looks better than the one he actually has.)
— Change Side Taunt to "Aww, couldn't keep up?"
— Change Down Taunt to "That was pretty fun!"
— Change Homing Attack bounce on hit to a random trick like he does in modern Sonic games.
— Allow repeated uses of Homing Attack in midair before having to land, but only on a successful hit.
— Change Homing Attack so it targets the centre of the foe's body, rather than their back. Change curve so it always corrects for vertical and then horizontal when homing in, and make it not curve any more than is necessary to hit the target from a horizontal angle (for example, it wouldn't curve at all if the foe were horizontal to Sonic).
— Slightly decrease endlag on successful Homing Attack hit.
— Allow hopping during charge-up period of Spin Charge, in the same vein as you can hop while charging the Side Special Spin Dash.
— Add constant, weak damaging hitbox to the charge-up period of Spin Charge and Spin Dash, but only while standing still (that is, not in the air and not during the mid-charge hop).
— Increase hitbox size of Spin Charge/Spin Dash slightly so a full-power Spin Charge/Spin Dash actually works as an approach and clanks with things, instead of being stuffed by any attack or projectile up to and including Mega Man's lemons. (I swear I've run into a Mega Man jab with a Spin Charge and been hit out of it by the projectile, not even clashing with it.)
— Slightly increase range of DSmash.
— Decrease UTilt startup and increase its horizontal range.
— Speed up FTilt animation.
— Change DTilt launch angle to vertical like it was in Brawl.

Ganondorf:
— Increase grab range.
— Add immediate hitbox on Wizard's Foot.
— Decrease endlag on landing from aerial Flame Choke.
— Speed up and increase damage and knockback on Dark Dive.

Pit:
— Slightly increase horizontal aerial speed.
— Make FSmash connect more reliably.
— Make USmash connect more reliably.
— Increase range and KBG of DSmash.
— Allow all Power of Flight variants to move horizontally or even downward.
— Add cape effect when blocking a melee attack with Guardian Orbitars immediately as they come out.
— Increase movement speed of Upperdash Arm and decrease its startup.

Dark Pit:
— Same as Pit.

Kirby:
— Allow Inhale and Jumping Inhale to copy custom moves.
— Increase KBG on UThrow.
— Increase forward movement on FSmash.
— Increase range, damage, and knockback on DSmash.
— Increase damage and KBG on uncharged Hammer.

Sheik:
— Make her Wait1 animation loop properly, and change her other ground animations so they transition properly into her new Wait1.
— Speed up and increase damage and knockback of DSmash (or just give back its first hitbox, that works too).
— Increase damage and knockback of BAir.
— Slightly increase KBG of Bouncing Fish.
— Increase KBG of Burst Grenade.
— Lower launch angle of FAir so it combos a little like it used to (though it doesn't need to be AS ridiculous, that's for sure).
— Remove the new movement-conservation effect of Vanish.

Zelda:
— Allow Phantom to be charge-stored, and remove its blind spot.
— Decrease startup and endlag of Din's Fire; remove delay between button release and detonation; increase size, damage, and base knockback/KBG of sweetspot, increase size and base knockback of sourspot.
— Remove the new movement-conservation effect of Farore's Wind.
— Make FSmash connect more reliably and increase its shield-stun and shield damage.
— Decrease startup and endlag of UTilt.
— Increase range of DSmash.
— Make USmash connect more reliably.
— Drastically decrease landing lag of all aerials.
— Decrease startup of UAir.
— Increase range of Nayru's Love's damaging hitbox.

Jigglypuff:
— Increase range of Sing and duration of its sleep effect.
— Increase hitbox frequency of Hyper Voice so its hits link, and give it more damage and knockback.
— Add wind push effect to the other Sing variant (whose name I forget, but its the one that simply spins foes around repeatedly for minimal damage).
— Allow horizontal influence after hitting with Rollout.
— Increase damage and KBG of Rollout, and decrease its charge time.
— Increase range of DSmash.

Mewtwo:
— Add custom moves!
— Remove new movement-conservation effect of Teleport.
— Decrease endlag on UTilt.
— Decrease startup on FTilt.

Lucario:
— Increase DSmash and FSmash range slightly.
— Make jab combo more reliably.
— Add aerial Force Palm grab.
— Increase speed of Double Team counter-attack, especially in the air.
— Add movement speed increase to Final Smash and/or increase Final Smash duration.

Greninja:
— You've nerfed him enough guys, it's time to stop.
— Increase Substitute active counter frames and speed up the counter-attack.

Shulk:
— Decrease startup and endlag on Back Slash.

And that's all I got for the moment.

 

[Emperor Dedede]

My dream patch includes Buffing Dedede and Nerfing Ness...

• Dash Attack should have a few frames of Super Armor, so that you can catch people by surprise!
• Down Air should be like Brawl's again.
• Forward/Back Air should have a bit less endlag if you hit the ground during it. It would allow it to be a better Short Hop option.
• Up Smash should be a bit stronger.
• Inhale should have less endlag when used in the air.
• Inhale should also have more range.
• Gordos should be a bit faster.
• Gordos should only be reflected by 5% damage attacks.
• Jet Hammer shouldn't be useless...

• Dash Attack should have less range.
• Back Air's Sweetspot should be weakened.
• Forward Air shouldn't chain as well.
• Up Air's range should be slightly lowered.
• Side Smash should be weaker.
• Up/Down Smash should be slower.
• PK Fire should be less spammy.
• PK Thunder should become much weaker (Both Versions)
• PK Magnet shouldn't be cancel-able.
• BACK THROW!!!

 

[Pariahus]

Anyone else think sonic shouldn't have the strongest upsmash in the game?

@ JamietheAuraUser i'd be find with the ungodly lag on back slash if it broke shields, other than that I like everything you just suggested.

 

[xD4nish]

I would personally put a nerf on Falcon's dash grab, as he slides super far, covering a lot of ground while grabbing.

 

[Putuk]

• Dash Attack should have less range.
• Back Air's Sweetspot should be weakened.
• Forward Air shouldn't chain as well.
• Up Air's range should be slightly lowered.
• Side Smash should be weaker.
• Up/Down Smash should be slower.
• PK Fire should be less spammy.
• PK Thunder should become much weaker (Both Versions)
• PK Magnet shouldn't be cancel-able.
• BACK THROW!!!

That would neuter the goddamn character.
I'd suggest being better at avoiding those PK Fires, it ain't that hard.
And that back throw has been as powerful as it is since Smash 64 and they still havn't made an attempt to weaken it.

I do agree on most of the Dedede stuff though.

 

[Beach]

Well I really only have a few:
- Falco/Fox lasers now auto cancel
- Falco's laser now travels slightly faster
- Falco's dair reverted to Melee/Brawl form
- Increased endlag on yoshi's jab and dash attack
- Dodges of all kind have a few more vulnerable frames

 

[Grass]

Why do people want to nerf a chararacter thats been nerfeded into the ground? its not like greninja was like, say diddy kong before his nerfs....

Actually, he's pretty busted.

 

[Nintendrone]

When I look at other people's suggestions, I see a ton of nerfs. I prefer many buffs for a strong, balanced cast rather than a bunch of weaklings. Unfortunately, the pattern with patches is to nerf everyone to the ground.

@ Pariahus I'm fine with Sonic having a strong Usmash. It gives him a reliable KO tool, and since he doesn't have many good KO options, I don't think it's too bad. Also, I know it's hyperbole, but I'm pretty sure that Sonic's Usmash is not too strong when compared to others, merely disproportionate to the rest of his moveset.

 

[Grass]

and since he doesn't have many good KO options

>mfw

-BAir is a kill move.
-Up smash (best in game)
- Uair follow ups
- FAir gimps
- B-throw to homing

 

[Infinite901]

General:
— Slightly decrease hitlag and/or pause the input buffer timer during hitlag. It's incredibly frustrating to have inputs ignored because of hitlag when trying to mash for Mach Tornado, for example.
— Make Counters either ignore or instantly break shields.
— Decrease shield regeneration rate and very slightly increase shieldstun.
— Increase number of consecutive low-knockback hits required before the attacker is pushed back. Also increase the frequency with which hits have to occur before they are considered "consecutive". Bowser shouldn't be pushed back by his own fire breath, darn it!
— Add Brawl-style echo effect to those Final Smash quotes that currently lack it, such as Super Sonic activation.

Individual characters:

Spoiler

Samus:
— Make jab combo properly.
— Buff Charge Shot's KBG.
— Buff Super Missile damage and KBG.
— Less endlag and better homing on Homing Missile, along with slightly more damage.
— Decrease endlag on FTilt.
— Decrease endlag on Dash Attack and increased base knockback on initial hitbox.
— Decrease startup and endlag on DTilt, lower its KBG, and make its knockback purely vertical.
— Decrease startup on FAir.
— Buff Morph Bomb damage and base knockback/KBG, increase the amount of bounce Samus receives from being hit by her own Morph Bomb, decrease endlag on Morph Ball bounce, increase horizontal control on Morph Ball bounce.
— Increase roll speed.
— Make USmash connect more reliably.
— Increase DSmash range and KBG.

Mii Gunner:
— Make jab combo more reliably.
— Buff Charge Blast's damage and knockback. Make it equivalent to Samus's Charge Shot.
— Buff Super Missile damage and KBG slightly.
— Slightly more damage on Homing Missile.
— Allow vertical control of Stealth Burst, along with decreased startup, decreased delay between button release and detonation, increased damage, increased KBG, increased maximum range, and increased shield damage.
— Increase FTilt range or decrease startup/endlag.
— Slightly increase FSmash damage output and KBG.
— Make USmash connect more reliably and increase KBG a bit.

Mii Swordfighter:
— Less endlag on just about everything.
— Change FTilt animation to give more range and better disjoint.
— Increase range on Shuriken of Light, and have it always cause flinching even at close range.
— Allow aerial control after hitting with Airborne Assault. Remove helpless state caused by landing after Airborne Assault and sliding off of platform.
— Increase distance and speed of uncharged Slash Launcher.
— Increase damage, knockback, distance, and speed of charged Slash Launcher. Alternatively, give Slash Launcher decreasing endlag the more it's charged, turning it into a viable aerial pop-up and combo starter.
— Decrease startup of Power Thrust.
— Increase damage, base knockback, and KBG of sweetspotted Power Thrust.
— Increase damage and base knockback of non-sweetspotted Power Thrust.
— Make the dive angle of aerial Power Thrust significantly shallower.
— Add extra hitbox on ground-bounce when performing Skyward Slash Dash into the ground.
— Increase knockback on grounded Hero's Spin.
— Increase horizontal control during Stone Scabbard.
— Increase DSmash range, damage, and knockback.
— Make USmash connect more reliably and increase KBG.
— Increase BAir range, damage, and KBG.
— Slightly decrease FAir knockback and make the knockback angle slightly more horizontal.

Mii Brawler:
— Increase range of all tilts excluding UTilt.
— Change FTilt so that it deals more damage towards the tip of the kick instead of the base, as that's how roundhouse kicks work in real life.
— Decrease DAir's startup.
— Decrease endlag on Feint Jump.
— Increase distance of Onslaught.
— Allow Head-On Assault to ledge snap and allow horizontal influence.

Meta Knight:
— Increase sword reach.
— Put back Brawl sword sound effects. The legendary Galaxia is not a plastic toy!
— Decrease amount of mashing needed for Mach Tornado.
— Slightly increase Drill Rush's movement speed, and add a slight bit of immediate forward movement on startup just before the first hit.
— Add a slight step forward to FSmash when the hitbox comes out, effectively increasing the attack's range.
— Make "Shield Breaker" variant specials actually deal massive shield damage. Breaker Drill should cause enough shield push for all hits to connect and pop a shield.
— Add the unused alternate victory quote for Meta Knight vs. Kirby matchups. (Now, my power is without rival!)

Fox:
— Put back Brawl voice acting, or simply have the Smash 4 VA redo everything to sound non-stupid.
— Slightly decrease endlag on blaster and/or slightly increase range.
— Increase range and KBG of DSmash.

Ike:
— Put back Brawl sword sound effects.
— Increase vertical reach on Counter and increase active counter frames.
— Add the unused alternate Counter voice clips (Gotcha! You're through!) and choose between them at random. (Alternatively, put the "You're through!" clip on successfully landing the initiating hit of Great Aether.)
— Increase KBG of DSmash.

Falco:
— Decrease startup and endlag on blaster.
— Increase ground and air speed.
— Increase range and KBG of DSmash.
— Increase forward movement of FSmash prior to hitbox coming out, and also increase KBG.

Sonic:
— Change his Wait1 animation so that his other ground animations transition into it properly. (Only reason for not doing it the other way around is that the idle his animations transition to looks better than the one he actually has.)
— Change Side Taunt to "Aww, couldn't keep up?"
— Change Down Taunt to "That was pretty fun!"
— Change Homing Attack bounce on hit to a random trick like he does in modern Sonic games.
— Allow repeated uses of Homing Attack in midair before having to land, but only on a successful hit.
— Change Homing Attack so it targets the centre of the foe's body, rather than their back. Change curve so it always corrects for vertical and then horizontal when homing in, and make it not curve any more than is necessary to hit the target from a horizontal angle (for example, it wouldn't curve at all if the foe were horizontal to Sonic).
— Slightly decrease endlag on successful Homing Attack hit.
— Allow hopping during charge-up period of Spin Charge, in the same vein as you can hop while charging the Side Special Spin Dash.
— Add constant, weak damaging hitbox to the charge-up period of Spin Charge and Spin Dash, but only while standing still (that is, not in the air and not during the mid-charge hop).
— Increase hitbox size of Spin Charge/Spin Dash slightly so a full-power Spin Charge/Spin Dash actually works as an approach and clanks with things, instead of being stuffed by any attack or projectile up to and including Mega Man's lemons. (I swear I've run into a Mega Man jab with a Spin Charge and been hit out of it by the projectile, not even clashing with it.)
— Slightly increase range of DSmash.
— Decrease UTilt startup and increase its horizontal range.
— Speed up FTilt animation.
— Change DTilt launch angle to vertical like it was in Brawl.

Ganondorf:
— Increase grab range.
— Add immediate hitbox on Wizard's Foot.
— Decrease endlag on landing from aerial Flame Choke.
— Speed up and increase damage and knockback on Dark Dive.

Pit:
— Slightly increase horizontal aerial speed.
— Make FSmash connect more reliably.
— Make USmash connect more reliably.
— Increase range and KBG of DSmash.
— Allow all Power of Flight variants to move horizontally or even downward.
— Add cape effect when blocking a melee attack with Guardian Orbitars immediately as they come out.
— Increase movement speed of Upperdash Arm and decrease its startup.

Dark Pit:
— Same as Pit.

Kirby:
— Allow Inhale and Jumping Inhale to copy custom moves.
— Increase KBG on UThrow.
— Increase forward movement on FSmash.
— Increase range, damage, and knockback on DSmash.
— Increase damage and KBG on uncharged Hammer.

Sheik:
— Make her Wait1 animation loop properly, and change her other ground animations so they transition properly into her new Wait1.
— Speed up and increase damage and knockback of DSmash (or just give back its first hitbox, that works too).
— Increase damage and knockback of BAir.
— Slightly increase KBG of Bouncing Fish.
— Increase KBG of Burst Grenade.
— Lower launch angle of FAir so it combos a little like it used to (though it doesn't need to be AS ridiculous, that's for sure).
— Remove the new movement-conservation effect of Vanish.

Zelda:
— Allow Phantom to be charge-stored, and remove its blind spot.
— Decrease startup and endlag of Din's Fire; remove delay between button release and detonation; increase size, damage, and base knockback/KBG of sweetspot, increase size and base knockback of sourspot.
— Remove the new movement-conservation effect of Farore's Wind.
— Make FSmash connect more reliably and increase its shield-stun and shield damage.
— Decrease startup and endlag of UTilt.
— Increase range of DSmash.
— Make USmash connect more reliably.
— Drastically decrease landing lag of all aerials.
— Decrease startup of UAir.
— Increase range of Nayru's Love's damaging hitbox.

Jigglypuff:
— Increase range of Sing and duration of its sleep effect.
— Increase hitbox frequency of Hyper Voice so its hits link, and give it more damage and knockback.
— Add wind push effect to the other Sing variant (whose name I forget, but its the one that simply spins foes around repeatedly for minimal damage).
— Allow horizontal influence after hitting with Rollout.
— Increase damage and KBG of Rollout, and decrease its charge time.
— Increase range of DSmash.

Mewtwo:
— Add custom moves!
— Remove new movement-conservation effect of Teleport.
— Decrease endlag on UTilt.
— Decrease startup on FTilt.

Lucario:
— Increase DSmash and FSmash range slightly.
— Make jab combo more reliably.
— Add aerial Force Palm grab.
— Increase speed of Double Team counter-attack, especially in the air.
— Add movement speed increase to Final Smash and/or increase Final Smash duration.

Greninja:
— You've nerfed him enough guys, it's time to stop.
— Increase Substitute active counter frames and speed up the counter-attack.

Shulk:
— Decrease startup and endlag on Back Slash.

And that's all I got for the moment.

I agree with almost all of this except some of the stuff about Sonic, Shiek and Brawler.

 

[Zeth444]

- Increse knockback on D-Throw so it doesnt combo after 100%.
- Make N-air frame 3 (is it enought?)


- I like the idea someone gave of buffing his walljump (unnessecery tho)


- You people won, he was nerfed. Keep him alone now.


- I like The idea of clones. Exept if They have ecxatly The same aerials, jabs, smash and specials. Tip Sourspot isnt diferent enought, make her diferent from marth (moveset changes will for sure heppen only on smash5)


- Sakurai already said hes not changing customs, só forget villager.


- Leave him alone.


- Soft buff would be nice. Dont know where.


- I feel like they'll nerf lumas HP again.


- Fix blind spot on the Phantom
-Make Din's Fire not put you into helpless animation
- Buff B-air or other aerial to make it safer and a killing move, increasing her neutral.


- Leave her alone.


- Buff him, dont know how, but buff.


- BUFF HIS RECORVERY
- Increase flame's hitbox on B-air


- Nerfing F-air or B-fish would be too much. So nerf Greninja B-air again or needles.


- Leave him alone.


- Dont know how, but buff her.


- Make N-air frame 3 (is it enought?)


- Make warp do damage and killing knockback (at second hitbox)


- Give him walljump.
- Give him 3 jab combo
- Give him his own moveset (can keep D-air, Up-air, F-tilt, D-tilt, Up-tilt and warlock punch. Not heppening tho)

 

[CaikLazer]

Buff Game and Watch, give him more kill power.
Nerf Luma
Nerf Sheik

 

[Deleted member]

on a serious note, megaman and pacman's throws should be buffed

 

[RetroBro]

on a serious note, megaman and pacman's throws should be buffed

Pacman's throws are pathetic.

 

[Kaladin]

I'll edit this to include other stuff later... But for now?

Lucina:

-All moves start up 3 frames faster and have 3 frames less end lag.
-First 2/3rds of sword deal less knock back and, say, x1.15% the damage they do now. Think buster shulk, except the idea is that she can have combos with this for good damage racking.
-Tippers do a lot of knock back, similar to Marth, but much less damage- think Smash shulk.
-Make her lighter than marth, so she dies maybe 10% earlier than him.

 

[Grass]

- Nerfing F-air or B-fish would be too much. So nerf Greninja B-air again or needles.

We gotta make sure we nerf greninja. LOL

 

[Nintendrone]

>mfw

-BAir is a kill move.
-Up smash (best in game)
- Uair follow ups
- FAir gimps
- B-throw to homing

I guess I didn't think my post through too much. I meant that he doesn't always have them readily available, as they all have flaws.
- Bair is not very fast and has to land the early hit. It's a bit more reliable than other options.
- Usmash has somewhat short horizontal range and is not too fast, although these problems are lessened by sliding Usmash and invincibility frames. His best KO option.
- Uair is not very strong, is prone to staling, and only combo kills at specific percents. A weaker KO option.
- Fair gimps are pretty effective, although it lacks range and its effectiveness is character-specific. Low-risk, but not as guaranteed.
- Bthrow is rage-dependent and position-dependent if you want it to kill at a good percent, and staleness affects it a lot. It's slightly more situational than others.
- Homing Attack is prone to staling and is slow if you want it at a good power. It's a situational option.
- Fthrow kills pretty late, but might be more reliable than Bthrow because it won't be as stale. It's more reliable, but kills later in general.

Looking at the list, Sonic has a bigger list of kill moves than other characters that are as quick as him. I feel that his situational kill options should be ever so slightly buffed, along with other characters' options so that they all can play with more variety.

 

[AfroGamerNinja]

Something that would make regular Samus good. Because not everyone wants to go Zero Suit. Dunno what, but anything, really.

 

[Grass]

I guess I didn't think my post through too much. I meant that he doesn't always have them readily available, as they all have flaws.
- Bair is not very fast and has to land the early hit. It's a bit more reliable than other options.
- Usmash has somewhat short horizontal range and is not too fast, although these problems are lessened by sliding Usmash and invincibility frames. His best KO option.
- Uair is not very strong, is prone to staling, and only combo kills at specific percents. A weaker KO option.
- Fair gimps are pretty effective, although it lacks range and its effectiveness is character-specific. Low-risk, but not as guaranteed.
- Bthrow is rage-dependent and position-dependent if you want it to kill at a good percent, and staleness affects it a lot. It's slightly more situational than others.
- Homing Attack is prone to staling and is slow if you want it at a good power. It's a situational option.
- Fthrow kills pretty late, but might be more reliable than Bthrow because it won't be as stale. It's more reliable, but kills later in general.

Looking at the list, Sonic has a bigger list of kill moves than other characters that are as quick as him. I feel that his situational kill options should be ever so slightly buffed, along with other characters' options so that they all can play with more variety.

Time to fix this *cracks knuckles*

- Bair is not very fast and has to land the early hit. It's a bit more reliable than other options.

Bair was one of Sonic's most reliable means of killing back in Brawl. I stick to my guns when I say this but it's a really good way to kill. Also I think you guys spend WAY too much time thinking about end lag and less about playing the game.

- Uair is not very strong, is prone to staling, and only combo kills at specific percents. A weaker KO option.

*cough cough* up throw u air jump u air spring u air. *cough cough*

- Bthrow is rage-dependent and position-dependent if you want it to kill at a good percent, and staleness affects it a lot. It's slightly more situational than others.
- Homing Attack is prone to staling and is slow if you want it at a good power. It's a situational option.

This was a poor option, I admit, but it's still an option. This was done back in the days of brawl as a means of easy gimp.

- Fthrow kills pretty late, but might be more reliable than Bthrow because it won't be as stale. It's more reliable, but kills later in general

I have never, in my entire history of playing smash, have I ever enjoyed his F-Throw to any extent. I don't claim this to be an option et al.

 

[Solutionme]

I feel that regarding characters the most logical thing to do for a nerf to Sheik is nerf her needles and make it slightly more difficult to combo into her bouncing fish. Her needles already make her somewhat brain dead to use since they literally let her keep neutral on the ground, and dare you approach her on the air you're not gonna have an easy time getting in, let alone getting out of her combos though to be fair she needs them. She should also have a harder time killing with bouncing fish and should instead rely on gimping more because apparently slapping someone with your hand stuns you for about the same amount of time as being slashed by a sword at higher percents. They could also remove the hitbox at the end of her up-b just so that recovering on stage with her is not an option at all, considering she already has bouncing fish which is one of the best moves in the game and doubles as a recovery. Regarding characters she is the only top tier who actually needs slight nerfs since doing anything else would hurt her too much. All they need to do are buff weaker characters.

Now for a list of general things:
-Increase Shield Stun
-Give shield breaking moves shield pushback i.e Shield Breaker from Marth or Donkey Kong's Headslam. Note: Some moves have this and are safe like DK's down B which is reasonable while other moves should not get it such as Bowser and Yoshi's down b since in an up close shield to shield situation it is an easy shield break that I'm pretty sure is guaranteed, which if it isn't Yoshi has star particles at the end of it and Bowser probably deals more with his.
-Change whatever formula is used for hitstun, so that it is more appropriate to what certain characters attack with or how they attack. Though this might not happen since it is too extensive and increasing it would just allow for infinites on higher tier characters.
-Allow blast zone editing in stage builder.
-Delta Stages, which should not be too hard just add 3 platforms to each omega stage and introduce Battlefield to For Glory.
-Customized Matches without Friends, a lobby basically, though that might not happen since it would be too much work.
-Custom Moves for Mewtwo, Lucas, and any possible random additions that were hinted at such as Ryu and Roy.
-Custom Move Balancing, some of them are too good such as the shield breaking needle and some are complete ass such as Storm Thrust and ...ugh so stupid... easy dancing blade.
-Allow for a special mode called Smooth Lander Heavy Gravity. (Just because if the metagame can't be changed from down throw to uair, I'd enjoy having an alternative meta that is currently being experimented on. Shout out to ArtsyHobbes.)
-Edit: Nerf Air dodging off stage or make it so you can't airdodge immediately after the animation, it is still fairly spammable which is quite stupid.

 

[SAHunterMech]

Okay, I've been thinking about this for a long time, so here goes.

Universal Changes:

• Inputting a Roll does a Wavedash instead.
  
• Air-Dodging replaced by Air-Shielding. Shielding in the air does not reduce fallspeed.
• Shield-Stun increased, Shields are slightly larger, regenerate slower and are used up more quickly, moreso in the air.
• Perfect shielding now results in a moderate shield-stun decrease, rather than negating stun altogether.
• A shield break results in the player being unable to shield or wavedash for 10 seconds, as well as taking full-rage levels of knockback increase.
• A shield meter is visible in the HUD.
  
• All players have these stats and equipment:
  +0Atk/+0Def/+50 Speed, Smooth Lander, Sprinter, and Anti-Leap.
• Base Hitstun increased to be inbetween Melee/64 levels, but closer to the former than the latter.
• All Characters now have individual multipliers for how much hitstun they inflict and recieve.
• Vectoring re-instated.

Now, in my mind, everyone should be buffed relative to tiers, but also to combine their custom special moves into 1 'optimized' version of each move. I don't feel qualified to suggest specific tweaks for characters other than my main, Falcon, so here are my ideas.

• Falcon Punch reverted to 64 Punch, lunges him slightly further than Smash 4 distance, damage reduced to 15%.
• Falcon Kick gains multihit akin to Falcon Kick Fury on the ground, but has fixed Knockback and retains default startup/endlag speed. Travel distance reduced. Functions like default in the air, but gains Lightning Kick stun if the landing shockwave connects at all (not just the edges). Landing Lag NOT reduced. Double Jump refresh re-enabled. Total Damage for aerial/ground versions reduced to 5%.
  
• Raptor Boost Functions like Wind-Up boost, but starts up only a few frames slower than default. Knockback increased to kill at 125%. Aerial pullback on whiff from Smash Flash 2 enabled. Sweetspotting made easier than impossible to do. Damage reduced to 7%.
• Falcon Dive reverted to 64 version; Total damage reduced to 10%. Angle can be changed, similar to Roy's Up-B, but to a lesser degree. Can still grab foes on the ledge.
  
• F-Tilt changed to function like 64 Up-Smash. Animation unchanged.
• F-Smash changed to 64 version, but links into the elbow as a second hit. Damage, Knockback unchanged.
  
• D-Smash links both hits, damage reduced to compensate.

 

[CptJPuff]

:4drmario: - Dr. Mario
Increase his up-special recovery
Increase wall jump height
Increase the speed of his f-air.
Decrease landing lag on d-air

:4diddy:- Diddy Kong
Bring back the 1.07 u-air.
Increase ending lag on all aerials

:4jigglypuff: - Jiggs
Increase lateral air movement.
Increase knockback and damage on rest.

:4link: - Link
Increase landing lag on all aerials
Increase charge time on the arrows.
Increase the recharge rate for the boomerangs.

:4sonic: - Sonic
Increase dash/walking speed
Decrease weight.
Decrease knockback and damage on all moves.
Goes into "freefall" state after up-special recovery

:4luigi: - Player 2 (Oops, Luigi)
Increase end lag on D-throw combos.

:4villager: - Villager
Decrease up-special recovery height.

:4fox: - Fox
Decrease damage on all attacks
Decrease landing lag on all aerials

:4littlemac: - L. Mac
Decrease jump height
Decrease up-special recovery height

:4feroy: - Roy
Slightly increase landing lag on all aerials

:4marth: - Marth
Make the tipper hitbox slightly larger

:4shulk: - Shulk
Decrease Monando Art 's time duration.

:4wario: - Wario
Decrease fart's charge time.

:4pacman: - Pacman
Goes into freefall state after side special

 

[Jake_570]

Ik this will never happen but wavedashing, dashdancing, and L-Canceling

 

[Silxer]

Dream patch eh? Well since you said said Dream patch....

- Rework so they would have a more unique fighting style (like maybe some new moves that are on unique to them?) rather then just being clone characters...

- More Stage Builder options.

- Add even more characters that the community wants in Sm4sh?

- Tweak the home menu a bit, not really a huge fan of the current layout but nothing I can't deal with.

- Allowing Mii Fighters to be used online.

- Adding a separate For Fun/For Glory gamemode that allows custom moves.

That's all I can think of for now.

 

[takanuinuva]

Well what I really want for a dream patch

Make it so that when you unlock custom moves or Mii outfits/ headgear. That they can't be obtained again (I've gotten Bowser's customs so many times playing Classic on 3DS) Or add a customs shop so you can buy them like you can with trophies.

Wii U version only- Have display stands for every trophy in the game (Jet the Hawk should be with Sonic's Friends, Rayman series trophies should have a slot etc)

Custom moves for DLC Characters

Fix the Roster design for both versions. Have all characters from the same series be next to each other (Dark pit with Pit and Palutena, Mewtwo with the other pokemon, Put Link back on the second row, Etc)

Miis in all online modes. Just use there default special moves like Palutena

An online mode that allows custom fighters and Amiibo fighters as well as Miis

Smash Run online and the ability to set your own time limit for Smash Run. I'd say up to 10 minutes would be fair. Also at the half time mark of any run it would tell you what the match type will be so you can prioritise certain items

More custom stage options from Brawl (Treadmills, Falling Blocks, Spikes, The odd mushroom and log platforms) Also 2 types of lava. The current one and the Great Cave Offensive one.

Brittany Charlie Louie and President alts for Olimar (You have different models for all the Koopalings and Olimar and the other captains aren't all that different from each other design wise unlike the Koopalings) If not then bring back the yellow suit dark helmet Olimar skin from Brawl

Every Stage from 64, Melee and Brawl. Just divide them between the 3DS and Wii U versions.

 

[Zol]

remove all of little mac's hitboxes

remove for glory mode

remove omega stages

"fixed a glitch where Diddy Kong could pull bananas out of his rectum"

"fixed a glitch where Sonic was somehow a playable character"

 

[Grass]

Buff Falcon's Knee to 23 base damage.