Yosher
Smash Ace
First of all, apologies if this is the wrong place for this. I think it's a little unclear where general universe discussions should be held, but I assume this doesn't belong in the Yoshi character sub-forum at least, so I went here.
Anyway, onto the topic at hand. How do people feel the Yoshi's Island series should be represented this time around? I personally feel like the Yoshi series has kind of gotten the short end of the stick especially since Brawl. Very few trophies, very few song representation, no items and no assist trophies. I think it's time for this to change in Smash Bros Ultimate.
Newcomer Characters
I'll touch upon potential newcomers only briefly, as this isn't the place to discuss those. I can be pretty short on that front; the Yoshi series barely has any characters that could become a fighter. I would personally love to see Kamek, but he already barely even appears playable in Mario sports/party games, and is confused for regular Magikoopas all the time, and probably would need to have too many moves made up specifically for Smash to even be worth it for the developers. The Baby Bros could be an Ice Climbers-esque team, but that would steal the thunder for those two, so I don't see them happening either. Much as I'd love to see new Yoshi's Island representation in the form of a character (in particular Kamek), I think it would make sense for Yoshi to stay the sole representative for his series.
Stages
With fighers out of the way, we can also discuss stages. Currently, there are three Yoshi stages confirmed to be returning: N64 Yoshi's Island, Melee Yoshi's Story, and Brawl Yoshi's Island. This leaves only Melee Yoshi's Island and Wii U Woolly World to return. Considering these two stages are the more unique Yoshi stages (keep in mind, I say unique, and not popular), I think it would be a shame if these two stages, especially Woolly World, would not come back. The three stages already returning have fairly generic layouts (even if they're the more popular stages out of all the Yoshi stages), so having some more variety would be nice.
But how about a new stage? Woolly World in Smash 4 was confirmed to be added very late into development and was in the game even though Yoshi's Woolly World was still in development at the time. (This also caused the stage to have very few songs that actually represented Woolly World, but that'll come later.) With the new Yoshi game coming out in 2019, I think it would be nice to have this game represented in a stage as well. Potentially, it could even include a unique 'Flipping' mechanic as seen in gameplay footage so far (hey, Jungle Hijinx in Smash Wii U had a very unique mechanic to it as well), with different hazards being present depending on which side it's flipped to. Of course, whenever flipping, players would need to keep in mind to watch their character as those will flip to the other side as well, basically. And even if the stage will be more generic than this, I think it's still fair to expect a new stage based on this game, or maybe one based on the original Yoshi's Island, but at a different location (possibly a stage reminiscent of the final battle of this game).
Assist Trophies
Now, unlike potential newcomers, the Yoshi series does have some more proper options to choose from regarding Assist Trophies. Most notably, Poochy would be absolutely perfect as one. When summoned, Poochy loyally follows its summoner around, knocking around any figher it happens to run into. Alternatively, the summoner can also hop on top of Poochy, and steer him left and right to make him run into opponents in a more controlled fashion. Potentially, Poochy can also knock around items some like he does with Yoshi eggs in the original Yoshi's Island (before cutely playing with them).
Another possible candidate could be Goonie. When summoned, it will fly above the stage, and drop certain things, such as bombs or Shy Guys. Similar to Lakitu's function in dropping Spinies, however, when attacked, Goonie will lose its wings and run around the stage aimlessly for a little while doing weak damage and knockback, until his time is up or he's attacked again. Shy Guys themselves can also be Assist Trophies on their own for that matter, being one of the weaker ones that would be easier to defeat.
One more candidate I thought of, would be Eggo-Dil. You know, the flowers that would spawn 5 'petals', which would spin around its head before firing them off. And it could pretty much have the same function here, with the petals dealing damage and weak knockback to whoever they would hit upon being fired. I think these are probably one of the more unique Yoshi's Island enemies, so.
I would've mentioned Kamek here, but I don't really see them making Kamek a stage hazard (as the Mushroom Kingdom U stage from the Wii U version is confirmed to return which Kamek was a hazard in) and an Assist Trophy. (But then again after second thought, Knuckles is an Assist Trophy while also appearing in the background of Green Hill Zone....) ..I guess Kamek could be an Assist Trophy as well, which he does have a better shot at than becoming a fighter. His gimmick usually is either changing level layouts or making characters bigger or smaller. Considering the former would be pretty difficult to pull off and growing/shrinking mechanics have been in the series since Melee, Kamek could potentially just grow the summoner (and potential teammates), or shrink opponent(s) for a little while.
Music
Music is, of course, also a pretty big part of the series. Now, to be fair, there hasn't been too many songs for Yoshi games to really take, as most Yoshi games prior to Woolly World had only a handful of songs that were simply repeatedly used. Super Mario World had pretty much the same song in different arrangements almost all throughout the game, Yoshi's Island had only a couple proper songs, Yoshi's Story took the Super Mario World approach and Yoshi's Island DS followed the footsteps of the original SNES game. Of course they didn't take every single song out of these games (where is the Yoshi's Island Final Boss theme for one?! ..and no that 5 second into to it from one of the medleys doesn't count), so they still have material to use there.
But they also have other games still as well, such as the Yoshi puzzle games. These games have a couple fun songs they could utilize as well. But the big one is obviously Yoshi's Woolly World. This game had a new song in almost every stage, which gives the game quite a lot to choose from. A few particular favourites of mine would be Craft Island, Shy But Deadly, Yoshi and Cookies and Lair of the Smooch Spiders. And there's still plenty more to choose from in this game alone, so I really think this is finally the time to give the Yoshi series some proper music representation. Considering most of these songs are fairly short when un-looped though, they could potentially make a couple fun medleys here.
Trophies
Now this one is where the last few installments really had no excuse whatsoever to give the Yoshi series the short end of the stick so much. Not counting fighter trophies, Melee had 5 trophies dedicated to the Yoshi series.. while Brawl and Smash 4 reduced this to 2 trophies dedicated to the series each. Even combined, Brawl and Smash 4 had less Yoshi trophies than Melee! They weirdly grouped Kamek with the Mario series too despite being more prominent in the Yoshi's Island series which is absolutely dumb. ...although they did put Kamek in the Yoshi's Island trophy box in Smash 4. Can they make up their mind which series Kamek really belongs to here?
Either way, there's plenty of trophy options for the Yoshi series to go for as well. Any of the aforementioned characters (Poochy, Kamek, Goonie, Eggo-Dil), as well as Bandit, any of the babies, Shy Guy, not to mention items like Yoshi eggs, red coins, or transformation bubbles. They could even make a 'Yoshi Colors' trophy which would depict various different colored Yoshis. There's plenty to choose from, but it's all very little represented in the past games, and I feel like this is very easily fixed.
Items
In terms of items, there's not too much you could choose with the Yoshi series, I think. Perhaps a Yoshi Egg could be an item, which could just be another tossable capsule (think Chansey eggs from Smash 4 and Melee). It could potentially even straight-up replace capsules altogether when playing on Yoshi stages. To be honest, though, I'm struggling to think of other Yoshi related items they could put in. Possibly a Chomp Rock? Though then they'd have to make a pushing animation for each character just for this item I think which I don't see happening.
Other Things
What other things could they add for the Yoshi universe? Probably not a whole lot, but when thinking about something like Smash Run in the 3DS version, they could definitely add some Yoshi enemies in here. We already had Shy Guys, but those were grouped under the Mario series just like Kamek was in the trophy section, so I'm not sure whether to count this. Another thing that I would like to see is more costume options for Yoshi himself, or at least all the available colors (really, having black Yoshi without white Yoshi is absolutely bonkers), but this is also a discussion for another part of the board.
To end off the opening post, I'd like to say that all this is merely kind of a wishlist of sorts. Much as I hate to admit it, Wario and DK are both more significantly distanced from the Mario universe to the point they even have a good bunch of potential fighters of their own unlike the Yoshi series and so it's understandable they'd get more representation for themselves, but as a Yoshi fan, it is admittedly a bit painful to see these series getting pulled ahead more over Yoshi. But on the other hand, with how closely Yoshi is still associated with the Mario series, I think us Yoshi fans can also count ourselves lucky with the amount of representation the Yoshi series has even gotten so far throughout the series, with Yoshi himself even being a playable character in every installment to date and the series even having its own Yoshi egg icon and different victory music to differentiate it from the Mario universe.
Anyway, what do you all think? Does the Yoshi series deserve more representation? Or do you think it's even over-represented? What kind of things would you add yourself from the series?
Anyway, onto the topic at hand. How do people feel the Yoshi's Island series should be represented this time around? I personally feel like the Yoshi series has kind of gotten the short end of the stick especially since Brawl. Very few trophies, very few song representation, no items and no assist trophies. I think it's time for this to change in Smash Bros Ultimate.
Newcomer Characters
I'll touch upon potential newcomers only briefly, as this isn't the place to discuss those. I can be pretty short on that front; the Yoshi series barely has any characters that could become a fighter. I would personally love to see Kamek, but he already barely even appears playable in Mario sports/party games, and is confused for regular Magikoopas all the time, and probably would need to have too many moves made up specifically for Smash to even be worth it for the developers. The Baby Bros could be an Ice Climbers-esque team, but that would steal the thunder for those two, so I don't see them happening either. Much as I'd love to see new Yoshi's Island representation in the form of a character (in particular Kamek), I think it would make sense for Yoshi to stay the sole representative for his series.
Stages
With fighers out of the way, we can also discuss stages. Currently, there are three Yoshi stages confirmed to be returning: N64 Yoshi's Island, Melee Yoshi's Story, and Brawl Yoshi's Island. This leaves only Melee Yoshi's Island and Wii U Woolly World to return. Considering these two stages are the more unique Yoshi stages (keep in mind, I say unique, and not popular), I think it would be a shame if these two stages, especially Woolly World, would not come back. The three stages already returning have fairly generic layouts (even if they're the more popular stages out of all the Yoshi stages), so having some more variety would be nice.
But how about a new stage? Woolly World in Smash 4 was confirmed to be added very late into development and was in the game even though Yoshi's Woolly World was still in development at the time. (This also caused the stage to have very few songs that actually represented Woolly World, but that'll come later.) With the new Yoshi game coming out in 2019, I think it would be nice to have this game represented in a stage as well. Potentially, it could even include a unique 'Flipping' mechanic as seen in gameplay footage so far (hey, Jungle Hijinx in Smash Wii U had a very unique mechanic to it as well), with different hazards being present depending on which side it's flipped to. Of course, whenever flipping, players would need to keep in mind to watch their character as those will flip to the other side as well, basically. And even if the stage will be more generic than this, I think it's still fair to expect a new stage based on this game, or maybe one based on the original Yoshi's Island, but at a different location (possibly a stage reminiscent of the final battle of this game).
Assist Trophies
Now, unlike potential newcomers, the Yoshi series does have some more proper options to choose from regarding Assist Trophies. Most notably, Poochy would be absolutely perfect as one. When summoned, Poochy loyally follows its summoner around, knocking around any figher it happens to run into. Alternatively, the summoner can also hop on top of Poochy, and steer him left and right to make him run into opponents in a more controlled fashion. Potentially, Poochy can also knock around items some like he does with Yoshi eggs in the original Yoshi's Island (before cutely playing with them).
Another possible candidate could be Goonie. When summoned, it will fly above the stage, and drop certain things, such as bombs or Shy Guys. Similar to Lakitu's function in dropping Spinies, however, when attacked, Goonie will lose its wings and run around the stage aimlessly for a little while doing weak damage and knockback, until his time is up or he's attacked again. Shy Guys themselves can also be Assist Trophies on their own for that matter, being one of the weaker ones that would be easier to defeat.
One more candidate I thought of, would be Eggo-Dil. You know, the flowers that would spawn 5 'petals', which would spin around its head before firing them off. And it could pretty much have the same function here, with the petals dealing damage and weak knockback to whoever they would hit upon being fired. I think these are probably one of the more unique Yoshi's Island enemies, so.
I would've mentioned Kamek here, but I don't really see them making Kamek a stage hazard (as the Mushroom Kingdom U stage from the Wii U version is confirmed to return which Kamek was a hazard in) and an Assist Trophy. (But then again after second thought, Knuckles is an Assist Trophy while also appearing in the background of Green Hill Zone....) ..I guess Kamek could be an Assist Trophy as well, which he does have a better shot at than becoming a fighter. His gimmick usually is either changing level layouts or making characters bigger or smaller. Considering the former would be pretty difficult to pull off and growing/shrinking mechanics have been in the series since Melee, Kamek could potentially just grow the summoner (and potential teammates), or shrink opponent(s) for a little while.
Music
Music is, of course, also a pretty big part of the series. Now, to be fair, there hasn't been too many songs for Yoshi games to really take, as most Yoshi games prior to Woolly World had only a handful of songs that were simply repeatedly used. Super Mario World had pretty much the same song in different arrangements almost all throughout the game, Yoshi's Island had only a couple proper songs, Yoshi's Story took the Super Mario World approach and Yoshi's Island DS followed the footsteps of the original SNES game. Of course they didn't take every single song out of these games (where is the Yoshi's Island Final Boss theme for one?! ..and no that 5 second into to it from one of the medleys doesn't count), so they still have material to use there.
But they also have other games still as well, such as the Yoshi puzzle games. These games have a couple fun songs they could utilize as well. But the big one is obviously Yoshi's Woolly World. This game had a new song in almost every stage, which gives the game quite a lot to choose from. A few particular favourites of mine would be Craft Island, Shy But Deadly, Yoshi and Cookies and Lair of the Smooch Spiders. And there's still plenty more to choose from in this game alone, so I really think this is finally the time to give the Yoshi series some proper music representation. Considering most of these songs are fairly short when un-looped though, they could potentially make a couple fun medleys here.
Trophies
Now this one is where the last few installments really had no excuse whatsoever to give the Yoshi series the short end of the stick so much. Not counting fighter trophies, Melee had 5 trophies dedicated to the Yoshi series.. while Brawl and Smash 4 reduced this to 2 trophies dedicated to the series each. Even combined, Brawl and Smash 4 had less Yoshi trophies than Melee! They weirdly grouped Kamek with the Mario series too despite being more prominent in the Yoshi's Island series which is absolutely dumb. ...although they did put Kamek in the Yoshi's Island trophy box in Smash 4. Can they make up their mind which series Kamek really belongs to here?
Either way, there's plenty of trophy options for the Yoshi series to go for as well. Any of the aforementioned characters (Poochy, Kamek, Goonie, Eggo-Dil), as well as Bandit, any of the babies, Shy Guy, not to mention items like Yoshi eggs, red coins, or transformation bubbles. They could even make a 'Yoshi Colors' trophy which would depict various different colored Yoshis. There's plenty to choose from, but it's all very little represented in the past games, and I feel like this is very easily fixed.
Items
In terms of items, there's not too much you could choose with the Yoshi series, I think. Perhaps a Yoshi Egg could be an item, which could just be another tossable capsule (think Chansey eggs from Smash 4 and Melee). It could potentially even straight-up replace capsules altogether when playing on Yoshi stages. To be honest, though, I'm struggling to think of other Yoshi related items they could put in. Possibly a Chomp Rock? Though then they'd have to make a pushing animation for each character just for this item I think which I don't see happening.
Other Things
What other things could they add for the Yoshi universe? Probably not a whole lot, but when thinking about something like Smash Run in the 3DS version, they could definitely add some Yoshi enemies in here. We already had Shy Guys, but those were grouped under the Mario series just like Kamek was in the trophy section, so I'm not sure whether to count this. Another thing that I would like to see is more costume options for Yoshi himself, or at least all the available colors (really, having black Yoshi without white Yoshi is absolutely bonkers), but this is also a discussion for another part of the board.
To end off the opening post, I'd like to say that all this is merely kind of a wishlist of sorts. Much as I hate to admit it, Wario and DK are both more significantly distanced from the Mario universe to the point they even have a good bunch of potential fighters of their own unlike the Yoshi series and so it's understandable they'd get more representation for themselves, but as a Yoshi fan, it is admittedly a bit painful to see these series getting pulled ahead more over Yoshi. But on the other hand, with how closely Yoshi is still associated with the Mario series, I think us Yoshi fans can also count ourselves lucky with the amount of representation the Yoshi series has even gotten so far throughout the series, with Yoshi himself even being a playable character in every installment to date and the series even having its own Yoshi egg icon and different victory music to differentiate it from the Mario universe.
Anyway, what do you all think? Does the Yoshi series deserve more representation? Or do you think it's even over-represented? What kind of things would you add yourself from the series?
