Yo, Data miners. Mac is confirmed touched. Look through his stuff (1.1.5. Patch) (Incorrect)

[Gavi1195]

I can confirm that Mac was indeed worked on the new patch. Unfortunately for us Mac's, I found out through a nerf that some of my crew thought was possible. I have already labbed and tested this, this is not a placebo.

We have a confirmed nerf: F-smash Down angled has reduced Shield Damage. D-tilt to buffered FSDA will never guarantee a shield break. Other moves can still break, however they cannot be as staled as before.

Please spread this to the data miners so they can inspect any further changes on Mac. Thanks for your time and I'm glad to help. If there is any doubts, feel free to notify me.

 

[Zoramine Fae]

How much damage was this nerfed by, and what does this mean for NORMAL damage? I can't really test since I have a 3ds and no outside world contact sooooooo

 

[Gavi1195]

For the exact amount of Shield Damage, I'm not able to provide this information more precisely unfortunately, however Normal damage remains the same as before. The best way I can put is that I noticed that while Normal damage was the same, It would act as If it needed 1% more for a guaranteed shield break for the D-tilt to buffered FSDA combo that worked on 1.1.4. This behavior was also shown in Mac's other options for guaranteed Shield Breaks.

For Example: In 1.1.4, assuming F-smash was fresh l, D-tilt could be staled twice to still guarantee a shield break. If it was staled 3 times, the Shield would not break. Up tilt on the other hand, could be staled up to 3 times to replicate the Shield Break mentioned above.

Now, moving to 1.1.5, D-tilt doesn't break and U-tilt still does.l, however, instead of being staled up to 3 times, it can only be staled 2 times max.

The difference between D-tilt and U-tilt is 1% and that small increase was enough to allow U-tilt to have the ability to be staled one more time than D-tilt for guaranteed Shield Break.

With that in mind, you put two and two together and you get the reasonable conclusion that the equivalent of 1% in terms of Shield Damage was reduced from his FSDA.

Hope that this helps, if there is any further questions, please ask and of course, when the time is on your side, Check Mac's data in detail.

 

[Gavi1195]

How much damage was this nerfed by, and what does this mean for NORMAL damage? I can't really test since I have a 3ds and no outside world contact sooooooo

Hopefully the above will clear some if not all your doubts.

 

[PHYTO-1]

i've been getting shield breaks left and right, and anyone whose shield is broken at above 35% is guaranteed dead anyhow. on paper- it does seem like a fair nerf - but also given mac's abysmal flaws - I dont like it.

 

[Zoramine Fae]

For the exact amount of Shield Damage, I'm not able to provide this information more precisely unfortunately, however Normal damage remains the same as before. The best way I can put is that I noticed that while Normal damage was the same, It would act as If it needed 1% more for a guaranteed shield break for the D-tilt to buffered FSDA combo that worked on 1.1.4. This behavior was also shown in Mac's other options for guaranteed Shield Breaks.

For Example: In 1.1.4, assuming F-smash was fresh l, D-tilt could be staled twice to still guarantee a shield break. If it was staled 3 times, the Shield would not break. Up tilt on the other hand, could be staled up to 3 times to replicate the Shield Break mentioned above.

Now, moving to 1.1.5, D-tilt doesn't break and U-tilt still does.l, however, instead of being staled up to 3 times, it can only be staled 2 times max.

The difference between D-tilt and U-tilt is 1% and that small increase was enough to allow U-tilt to have the ability to be staled one more time than D-tilt for guaranteed Shield Break.

With that in mind, you put two and two together and you get the reasonable conclusion that the equivalent of 1% in terms of Shield Damage was reduced from his FSDA.

Hope that this helps, if there is any further questions, please ask and of course, when the time is on your side, Check Mac's data in detail.

Eh, the move was already powerful, and you can hold charge for a half a second and then release. If they hold shield shield gets broken, if they drop they eat up 25%. I still am disliking that he's nerfing an already pretty bad character in terms of his chances against most of the roster currently, though.

 

[TheLegendaryFoxFire]

I would say this is like the nerf Marth and Lucina got to their shield breaker. They increased the damage from Little Mac's Smash attack but didn't lower his shield damage so they fixed it.

 

[jet56]

i personally haven't noticed the difference. I think this is placebo personally.

 

[Gavi1195]

i personally haven't noticed the difference. I think this is placebo personally.

I can assure you it isn't. To the untrained eye at first Glance, it doesn't seem like anything changed. However, I was among the very few that decided to stretch Shield Break capabilities as far as possible. I tested every single method of extension I discovered and they cannot be as staled as in 1.1.4. The only main reason why it's hard to notice is because if after the D-tilt, you wait about half a second for Shield to deplete a bit, then it can break a full shield if you use a FSDA fresh. In 1.1.4. You could buffer the Smash and it was a guaranteed Break. Not anymore.

 

[Gavi1195]

Gonna repeat this small part just to maybe help make it easier for any data miners or testers trying to confirm this.

If there are any doubts or questions, please don't be afraid of messaging me. I would gladly assist you if need be.

(Also,I know this is irrelevant, but when I first saw that this thread reached over 3000 views, I thought the computer made an error and was screwing with me.)

 

[Laitome]

I find it funny that on the patch notes post Little Mac is the only character that isn't listed as no changes and has no confirmed changes yet.

 

[Gavi1195]

I find it funny that on the patch notes post Little Mac is the only character that isn't listed as no changes and has no confirmed changes yet.

I find it interesting too It makes me wonder if that would still be the case If I didn't lab the 1.1.4 FSDA buff and didn't post my findings in 1.1.5. after retesting what I found in 1.1.4. Would Mac's spot still be blank or would it have "No changes" too?

 

[PHYTO-1]

I find it interesting too It makes me wonder if that would still be the case If I didn't lab the 1.1.4 FSDA buff and didn't post my findings in 1.1.5. after retesting what I found in 1.1.4. Would Mac's spot still be blank or would it have "No changes" too?

i find it strange too that no one noticed it. i definitely see the difference. i used to get a shield break 1 in 5 games back in 1.14

 

[Gavi1195]

i find it strange too that no one noticed it. i definitely see the difference. i used to get a shield break 1 in 5 games back in 1.14

To be fair, It's a very hard nerf to notice if you didn't pay much attention to it. For example: Two of my friends loved the buff and used it, but they really didn't lab much into it. So when patch 1.1.5 came out, they were very confused. When I reported my findings to them, one of them told me that his doubts were correct. Since they didn't lab the buff much, they were not able to notice it clearly, but he told me that they both felt something was off with FSDA and it felt a bit weaker when they were testing the new patch.

 

[Laitome]

Welp the patch notes post has been updated and they are 90% sure Mac was untouched, so this is basically deconfirmed. Still worth hanging around for the remaining 10% though

 

[Gavi1195]

Welp the patch notes post has been updated and they are 90% sure Mac was untouched, so this is basically deconfirmed. Still worth hanging around for the remaining 10% though

Then all I will say is that Im highly disappointed in the data miners efforts. Now the majority of people will assume that his FSDA is untouched. Guess I will be one of the very few who will know a change to the character that might never be acknowledged.

These two following pictures summarize the situation perfectly.

 

[Laitome]

Then all I will say is that Im highly disappointed in the data miners efforts. Now the majority of people will assume that his FSDA is untouched. Guess I will be one of the very few who will know a change to the character that might never be acknowledged.

These two following pictures summarize the situation perfectly.

No they don't, this thread still exists after all.

As I said there's still a chance that they haven't seen everything yet, but a change in shield damage would be something that I would assume to be easy to find. Message one of the dataminers if possible if you are that dissapointed in their ability, confident in your findings, and/or don't want potential misinformation to be spread

Also now that I actually looked at the change you mentioned (just read what you wrote), I'm gonna ask are you sure? I was never able to get a shield break off of one d-tilt to uncharged DA-fsmash it always took at least two to do it in my experience IDK I only have a 3DS with 1.1.4 on it so I'll try to take a look if the CPU's will cooperate.

 

[Gavi1195]

No they don't, this thread still exists after all.

As I said there's still a chance that they haven't seen everything yet, but a change in shield damage would be something that I would assume to be easy to find. Message one of the dataminers if possible if you are that dissapointed in their ability, confident in your findings, and/or don't want potential misinformation to be spread

Also now that I actually looked at the change you mentioned (just read what you wrote), I'm gonna ask are you sure? I was never able to get a shield break off of one d-tilt to uncharged DA-fsmash it always took at least two to do it in my experience IDK I only have a 3DS with 1.1.4 on it so I'll try to take a look if the CPU's will cooperate.

First, of all. Thanks for the advice on messaging the data miners. I will do that as quickly as possible when the time is available.
Second, regarding the change. Yes, Im 100% positive of it. (Long progress of labbing is detailed below. Prepare yourself)

Ever since it was discovered in 1.1.4 that it was possible to break full shield with 2 moves, I decided to lab the buff and found an astonishing amount data on how to extend the possiblity to break shield with 2 moves. I decided to restest my 1.1.4 findings when some people in a crew that Im at, were complaining that they felt that the FSDA felt weaker. I was shocked when I found out that the D-tilt to buffered FSDA was no longer able to break shields. After further testing, I found out that it's other extensions (U-tilt, F-tilt and Gentleman combo) where affected as well (Gentleman, while affected, still was able to shield break like it did in 1.1.4 due to the fact the combo is spread into 3 diffrent moves, which reduces staleness.) After labbing 1.1.5 further, I was able to deduce that 1% in terms of shield damage was removed from FSDA and not the other attacks. This was proven due to the same two people I mentioned having found that Glide Toss with Gyro was capable of a 2 hit shield break as well in 1.1.4. When I retested in 1.1.5, I found out that the Glide Toss with Gyro was no longer able to break in 2 hits. Due to the incostitency of d-tilt to FSDA reports I was recieving (Some people saying that it wasn't breaking, others saying it was breaking) I decided to lab that combo further and I found the answer to the incostency. Right now, in 1.1.5, if you wait about half a second to let the shield drain after D-tilt connects, then FSDA will do enough for a shield break. In 1.1.4, that was not the case, if you buffered the FSDA instead of waiting, it would still break a full shield. (Important to note that I did not stay exclusively on training mode. Every single extension was tested and restested on Training and Smash modes in 1.1.4 and 1.1.5)

If there are any further questions, please don't be afraid to ask. Now, I will try to ask the data miners by messaging them. Hopefully, they will respond.

 

[Laitome]

First, of all. Thanks for the advice on messaging the data miners. I will do that as quickly as possible when the time is available.
Second, regarding the change. Yes, Im 100% positive of it. (Long progress of labbing is detailed below. Prepare yourself)

Ever since it was discovered in 1.1.4 that it was possible to break full shield with 2 moves, I decided to lab the buff and found an astonishing amount data on how to extend the possiblity to break shield with 2 moves. I decided to restest my 1.1.4 findings when some people in a crew that Im at, were complaining that they felt that the FSDA felt weaker. I was shocked when I found out that the D-tilt to buffered FSDA was no longer able to break shields. After further testing, I found out that it's other extensions (U-tilt, F-tilt and Gentleman combo) where affected as well (Gentleman, while affected, still was able to shield break like it did in 1.1.4 due to the fact the combo is spread into 3 diffrent moves, which reduces staleness.) After labbing 1.1.5 further, I was able to deduce that 1% in terms of shield damage was removed from FSDA and not the other attacks. This was proven due to the same two people I mentioned having found that Glide Toss with Gyro was capable of a 2 hit shield break as well in 1.1.4. When I retested in 1.1.5, I found out that the Glide Toss with Gyro was no longer able to break in 2 hits. Due to the incostitency of d-tilt to FSDA reports I was recieving (Some people saying that it wasn't breaking, others saying it was breaking) I decided to lab that combo further and I found the answer to the incostency. Right now, in 1.1.5, if you wait about half a second to let the shield drain after D-tilt connects, then FSDA will do enough for a shield break. In 1.1.4, that was not the case, if you buffered the FSDA instead of waiting, it would still break a full shield. (Important to note that I did not stay exclusively on training mode. Every single extension was tested and restested on Training and Smash modes in 1.1.4 and 1.1.5)

If there are any further questions, please don't be afraid to ask. Now, I will try to ask the data miners by messaging them. Hopefully, they will respond.

Ok just finished off with a 1 hour session with a level 9 CPU that kept on perfect shielding my d-tilts (managed 9 in row before f-tilting me), some gazelle punch practice, and 2 somewhat clean takes, the CPU dropped shield before DA f-smash could come out. Judging by how small the shield got I'm inclined to believe you that d-tilt -> DA f-smash can break a shield, just that it's not a shield combo (to my knowledge d-tilt is a few frames negative on shield).

Also if you haven't sent out that message to the dataminers yet I recommend linking this post in that message, they'll probably get a better idea of what's going on.

 

[Gavi1195]

Ok just finished off with a 1 hour session with a level 9 CPU that kept on perfect shielding my d-tilts (managed 9 in row before f-tilting me), some gazelle punch practice, and 2 somewhat clean takes, the CPU dropped shield before DA f-smash could come out. Judging by how small the shield got I'm inclined to believe you that d-tilt -> DA f-smash can break a shield, just that it's not a shield combo (to my knowledge d-tilt is a few frames negative on shield).

Also if you haven't sent out that message to the dataminers yet I recommend linking this post in that message, they'll probably get a better idea of what's going on.

I have already sent out a message to the data miners and the mod "Liberation" describing the situation. As you saw, the shield was almost broken, but it didn't. In 1.1.4, that would have broken the shield. Sorry for repeating myself a lot, but I do think it's important to clarify any doubts or questions that may arise.

 

[Lavani]

Hi, data miner here.

There are no changes to Little Mac's attacks. Down-fsmash is 24% with +4 shield damage in both 1.1.4 and 1.1.5, dtilt is 8% with no bonus shield damage. Shield health and move staling are also unchanged.

All things considered, it sounds like an error in testing to me.

 

[Laitome]

I have already sent out a message to the data miners and the mod "Liberation" describing the situation. As you saw, the shield was almost broken, but it didn't. In 1.1.4, that would have broken the shield. Sorry for repeating myself a lot, but I do think it's important to clarify any doubts or questions that may arise.

No you heard me wrong I did my testing in 1.1.4 on my 3DS. I haven't played the 1.1.5 patch because I don't have my WiiU and connecting a 3DS to college wifi is a pain.

 

[Gavi1195]

Hi, data miner here.

There are no changes to Little Mac's attacks. Down-fsmash is 24% with +4 shield damage in both 1.1.4 and 1.1.5, dtilt is 8% with no bonus shield damage. Shield health and move staling are also unchanged.

All things considered, it sounds like an error in testing to me.

I thank you very much for your time and help in this situation.

In pure honesty, this is the weirdest scenario I have found in this game. I know for sure that the attack just isn't as strong when it comes to being staled, but I can see that the data is not lying. Perhaps an overall diffent factor was changed and not Mac's data, regardless, I believe this issue can now be put to rest, whether there was a change or not. I thank you all for contributing on this discussion and spending time in assisting me with this.

Important edit: One last question: Did he always do +4 on shield? I thought it was +5, unless Im confusing it for another move.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Important edit: One last question: Did he always do +4 on shield? I thought it was +5, unless Im confusing it for another move.

+4 is consistent with all sources I can find dating back to 1.04.

 

[jet56]

placebo even gets the best of us it seems. glad we were able to straighten the situation out.