Xanadu: Emerald Edition (ProAM doubles!?) (No tripping!?) - May 4th, 2013 - Baltimore, MD

[Undrdog]

Where exactly are you in Aberdeen? You are probably really close to DJ, who I play with all the time. He is in Abingdon. You should come next time we play.

That would be pretty awesome really. To be honest I haven't picked up a controller since the tourney they had at HCC over the summer. And I didn't even bother playing in the actual tournament. Let me know next time you plan on getting together, and if it's ok with DJ, I'll try to swing by.

As for where I am in Aberdeen? Hard to explain. I'm in between Churchville, Aberdeen, Bel Air, and Bel Camp, lol. I'm close to I95 though so getting to Abingdon is a matter of minutes.

 

[Vist]

Hey guys, been WAY out of the competitive scene for a LONG time. Been to Xanadu for a little MtG before but didn't realize they also hosted Smash events.

Anyway, thinking about attending if at all possible. Any Baltimore vets from times past gonna attend here? I see Vist, which is awesome. So is BTree, DOSV, EEvisu, UMBC, Frozen, Hat, Tru, or anyone else still alive and kicking?

UndrDog! Long time, no see man. BTree, DOSV, EE and Hat are still around more or less and usually come out to Xanadu events.

 

[bubbaking]

Aberdeen, Abingdon, Bel Air, Bel Camp.........you guys live in an area with the weirdest names for towns.

 

[Undrdog]

UndrDog! Long time, no see man. BTree, DOSV, EE and Hat are still around more or less and usually come out to Xanadu events.

Nice. I'll see what I can do to get to the next Xanadu Smash event. Might have some trouble finding the place again though, lol. Being hidden in a business park and all.

Aberdeen, Abingdon, Bel Air, Bel Camp.........you guys live in an area with the weirdest names for towns.

Really? I've heard of most of these city names in other places. ^_^

 

[TheTantalus]

Undrdog- EE, Btree, DOSV, and HAT all still attend events, EE is an official for this event.

 

[Undrdog]

Awesome. Sad part is I won't recognize anyone anyway, lol.

 

[TheTantalus]

Undrdog did you go to Brawl till you fall at the Karate Dojo a few years ago? I think I remember you

 

[TheTantalus]

Alright, so given the feedback I've received, I've decided to add in PROAM doubles!

Not sure what that is? Let me give you a run down on how this will work.

We will be doing PROAM (short for Professional/Amateur) doubles after singles for both Melee and Brawl. Because of the Project:M and Melee overlap, there will be no P:M Pro/Am Doubles. This is what will happen- your placing in singles will determine your team partner. If you're in a tied position, your initial seed followed by your strength of victories and losses will determine the tiebreakers. Should you choose to enter, you won't really know exactly who you are teaming with. So for example, if there is a 32 man bracket, 1st would team with 32nd place, 2nd with 31st, 3rd with 30th, etc. right down the line so that the teams are event. I'm sure you have some questions, so i'll do my best to FAQ them here:

1. What if I don't enter singles?

That's fine, but you will be treated like last place. Unless of course, you're power ranked, in which case, we'll readjust at that time. So those of you who can't make singles hoping to nab a good partner, don't think you can abuse it if we know how good you are. We'll use the PR ranking mixed with the result to find a place for you. It's easier though if you just enter singles.

2. What if I placed well in singles but don't want to enter doubles?

That's completely fine, it's elective. The next players in line will take your spot.

3. How many teams can enter?

Only 16 teams per event, for now. We'll see how it goes.

4. How will it be seeded?

By the same finishing order of the bracket for the top player of the team. So Imagine Chillin wins, Cyrain is 2nd, and Nintendude is 3rd. Those are the top 3 seeds and will be seeded the same way in doubles. Beyond that, it will be mostly random.

Anyone else have any questions? Hope you can come out and enjoy!

 

[bubbaking]

Huh? Only 16 teams? Is it first-come, first-serve for doubles sign-ups?

 

[TheTantalus]

Yeah pretty much. If there is incredible, overwhelming support I can up it. But we'll start there. Since the bracket has to be balanced i try to keep it with an even number.

 

[CTL17]

Sweet, I can make Pro-Am teams. Though you should probably be a little careful in terms of people who don't enter singles and still not power ranked. Should at least wonder if someone can beat every single person of a certain placing.

 

[Nintendude]

Aberdeen, Abingdon, Bel Air, Bel Camp.........you guys live in an area with the weirdest names for towns.

You'd love New Jersey. They have awesome towns such as Hoboken, Weehawken, Parsippany, and Whippany.

 

[Undrdog]

Undrdog did you go to Brawl till you fall at the Karate Dojo a few years ago? I think I remember you

I want to say yet as it sounds familiar. Can't be certain though.

 

[Cyrain]

-Edit- Just saw that it's already ProAM doubles sooo I guess I'm ********. I won't be at this one. Can't imagine why people would support that format.

 

[CTL17]

It's a good way for the Pro to continuously teach the Am. At least that's what I think of it. Also that the team consisting of the two middle players is the most overpowered.

 

[Bones0]

-Edit- Just saw that it's already ProAM doubles sooo I guess I'm ********. I won't be at this one. Can't imagine why people would support that format.

Because the alternative is the 3-team RR we had at the PP/M2K Xanadu...

 

[TheTantalus]

Cyrain- it's either that or no doubles. 3 team RR's are not worth the time we devote to a "doubles" event.

 

[JCaesar]

Well, cmart and I will still take P:M team MMs, if anyone wants to get in some real teams matches.

 

[Fortune]

Cyrain- it's either that or no doubles. 3 team RR's are not worth the time we devote to a "doubles" event.

The reason no one enters is because $10 a person is too expensive for doubles. There were plenty of doubles teams at the Salvation events, because it was only $5 a person.

I'm not suggesting to put regular doubles back in for this event, though. I think most people (including myself) would rather have singles pools.

@Vist: I might be short on cash when this comes around, so our MM might have to wait. Looking forward to it at some point, though.

 

[Undrdog]

Hmm, I wonder what I would be considered in a ProAM format? lol

 

[CTL17]

Hmm, I wonder what I would be considered in a ProAM format? lol

It depends on how you place in singles. If you place better than half of the entrants, you'll probably be the "Pro" in your team.

 

[Nintendude]

The top seed from singles should get a level 9 Luigi as their partner.

 

[bubbaking]

That could potentially be better than a human, dude. At Epsilon's library event, Chu wrecked most of the teams, including my team and Sypher's team, with a level 9 Peach as his teammate.

 

[Nintendude]

I once won a sypher biweekly teaming with a level 9. Wenbo legit got taunt spiked by Luigi.

 

[Cyrain]

Oh yea I forgot this region is the worst x_x Welp have fun with the ProAM thing

 

[Bones0]

I once won a sypher biweekly teaming with a level 9. Wenbo legit got taunt spiked by Luigi.

Then he misfired me like 3 times on a Brinstar cp. Almost quit Melee that day.

 

[CTL17]

Lv9 Luigis and Peaches are pretty cheap. They have amazing SDI, and they always DI very high up, which means it's almost impossible to combo them without getting NAired. And you can't bait it out because they aren't programmed to fall for that. Too bad they're still CPUs.

 

[Ether]

It's a good way for the Pro to continuously teach the Am. At least that's what I think of it. Also that the team consisting of the two middle players is the most overpowered.

OH! Is that what ProAm is??? I'm in! Where do I sign up? I team with Ams all the time in SoVa!

 

[Cyrain]

I was just having a conversation with myself in my head about how this ******** ruleset will drive away the interest of all the top players in this region. Then I remembered that you're the nicest guy on Earth and you were the exception. Not surprised to see your post at all rofl.

 

[Nintendude]

How would you do things differently, Cyrain?

 

[Cyrain]

I'm not saying to do things differently. I came here to post that I was prolly gonna come, but then I saw the ProAM **** and decided I wasn't interested anymore. The way I see it, this might entice more low level players to enter the tournament, but it's also vastly less interesting for the top players. I'm all for growing the community, but the high level players in this region don't appear to be improving at a particularly noteworthy rate, so I don't see how introducing more low level players via a ****ty tournament system is really going to help. I guess it's better than some small round robin, but I'm not personally interested in carrying some bad person all the way through teams. I doubt Chillin would be interested if he didn't want the money and I'm pretty sure Redd would completely disagree as well. Ether is the exception cause he's a way better person than me and Chillin.

-Edit- I got good at this game by entering tournaments over and over and getting ***** over and over and practicing more and more. In the days of C3 when this region was actually good, it took me ****ing FOREVER to beat someone, much less make bracket and actually challenge anyone noteworthy. I have much angrier things to say about this region, but to avoid becoming an md/va tourney pariah, i'll leave it there.

 

[Nintendude]

I'm with you in that normal teams is better, but growing the scene by catering to low level players might be a good investment for the future. Right now we can rarely ever get a teams bracket going and part of that is attributable to just not having the numbers.

 

[Cyrain]

I mean I'm in full support of larger pots and whatnot cause money is cool, but I'm just saying that this region should get in high gear and step it the **** up. Maybe if you run the ProAM bracket for a fewmonths then lots of new people will show up and I'll eat my words. 'Til then I'll be at home making my falco suck less **** via tech skill practice.

 

[Bones0]

I don't even think Tant is running it to get new people in the scene or anything (though that's certainly a benefit). He has just accepted that every doubles bracket is a RR between the top 2-3 teams. You can always coordinate your own doubles bracket if you think there's enough interest, but idk why it would have changed in the past month or so. You might as well MM. As far as how you got good, I understand that you may be proud or whatever that you overcame the odds to improve, but why are you so insistent on making other players overcome those same odds? I would think someone who struggled to improve would want to help others out so they don't waste 10x more time, money, and effort than they need to. It'd be like someone pulling themselves up by their bootstraps to get out of the ghetto, and then they turn around to people still in the area and think less of them because they haven't succeeded in the same way.

I am trying to improve as hard as anyone, but when tournaments consistently don't run pools, top players decline friendlies or decide not to show up because it's $5 entry or no other good players are showing up or whatever, it becomes a lot harder to level up. Scrapping 1 or 2 sets against good opponents with no feedback doesn't cut it at this point in the metagame where players in other regions simply learn way faster because of their support for each other. That's compounded by the fact that our region has a lack of tourneys in general. It's not SoCal where I can drive 10 mins to a tourney every weekend. I'd much rather our region be like AZ where, even in pools, the whole state, not just including the top players, but ESPECIALLY the top players are cheering like crazy for the mid-level/newer/worse players. Not because the cheering is particularly helpful, though it is, but more because that shows that players actually have some pride/stock in their region being good and doing well.

I'm not asking or expecting the whole region cheering me on every round or all the top players to start coaching me the whole tournament, but just occasionally lending a hand to anyone, regardless of skill, makes the whole region better. I'm not even good, but I still do my best to help other players improve when we play. Of course I am not going to want to sit down with newbies and spend the whole day teaching them every single baby step, and I don't, but it really just takes 5-10 minutes of friendlies for a better player to help a newer player make some legitimate progress. I don't think it's a coincidence that MD/VA has had the same top tier players for so many years, and the stagnation of our top players' improvement is at least partly influenced by the fact that they only have each other to push them. I mean, of course stuff like Chillin and Chu splitting every tourney isn't going to help them improve as fast as other regions where their top players have plenty of mid-high players breaking into that skill gap where they are at least challenging them to do new stuff.

 

[SypherPhoenix]

1) you aren't forced to participate in proam
2) regular doubles has very little money/interest at these tournaments regardless
3) mdva is more than you and chillin - at least 150 active smashers

while i don't really like the idea of paid/full-price proam, it's great for creating balanced competition for mid-level players. if i were running proam i would probably make it really low-stakes, say $1 or $2 per person, just to put something on the line. there are a lot of possible outcomes in proam, many teams will enter thinking they have a shot at winning.

as far as this region being ****, it honestly comes down to our best/most experienced players being mostly apathetic when it comes to catalyzing other players. this region as a whole is pretty unenthusiastic about the game.

 

[Cyrain]

What the hell are you talking about? It's not about overcoming odds or about being proud That's kind of my whole point. I took a year hiatus from serious smash for the most part and when I came back the only person who had exceeded my skill level was Chillin and very few others were challenging. This region literally bored me into quitting Melee and didn't change much while I was gone. Chillin getting good again is half the reason I even came back. What it's REALLY about is not being a ****ing sissy. I watched videos, I practiced, I asked questions, I asked for friendlies and I KEPT entering tournaments and getting ***** and losing money. I was in the same position you guys are in except there are less tourneys and less high level players now. If this tourney format works out for everyone then that's pretty cool, but you have to realize that I have no reason to travel a few hours to come team with some bad person and carry him through a tournament. I'm trying to get better and get good teams practice with Chillin. I don't really like the format, but if more people play then good ****. I just won't be there. Not really that big a deal. As far as MMs go...Who the **** should I MM? I don't like to take money from players clearly below my skill level because it makes me feel like I'm forcing them to pay me to play me. You know whose responsibility it is to ask a top player for a match/advice? ****ing YOURS. I sit at almost every md/va tournament being bored as ****, stoned as ****, practicing with chillin, or some combination of those 3. I honestly hate being at our tournaments, but I need the money so I really truly am usually bored out of my mind. How many of you come ask me to play? None. I'm not rude or mean in person. I'm usually down to play anyone with a few exceptions for people I don't like. Go ask Oasys or Nick Hazard about it. You probably have no idea who they are cause they're new to the scene, but I'm hosting Nick Hazard soon (someone I almost JV 5 stocked recently) so that he can get better. I talk to Oasys all the time about Melee to help him improve. An even better example would be Milkman. He and I were just having a discussion about this region and at some point he mentioned that playing me was what taught him a few important fundamentals about top level play and gave him some insight, but that he mostly carried himself from there. I post in the SoVa thread when they ask melee related questions and I host SoVa and other players for fests and before tournaments. Cory and I have traveled to plenty of SoVa fests just to practice and hang out. I'm willing to host others, but virtually no one has ever shown interest in coming here when I have offered. Maybe I should take more interest in this region, but maybe you should just ****ing ASK ME TO PLAY or give you advice. It's true, Chillin and I split like 100% of the tournaments we are at and almost never play it out, but that's partially because almost no one pays attention or hypes up our grand finals. You want me to watch a low level player **** his combos up against some other low level player and cheer? Well then you can come watch the top level players do good **** and cheer/learn. I'll cheer for you when you cheer for me lmfao.

Also, I almost never intentionally skip out on tourneys and it's extremely rare for me to just deny someone a match, sooo I don't know where you're getting that from. I think the main point to be taken from this is that our tourneys and our average skill level is janky as ****. Anyone who has played with me regularly will attest to the fact that I'm a nice guy and am definitely down to help people improve. Cory might tell you that I'm scary to approach, but I think that's just cause he's shy. That being said, I'm not trying to help carry people in a tournament setting. Friendlies and fests are one thing, but with money on the line it's a totally different game, even if it's only $50. Don't let my beard scare you. Just come ask me to play when I'm sitting there watching random stupid matches and doing nothing worthwhile.

 

[SypherPhoenix]

but why are you so insistent on making other players overcome those same odds?

things have always been like this in mdva, and it's still a perfectly fine way to get better in-region as long as you're dedicated enough. the bigger issue is that other regions are both more dedicated and more interested in the success of the players around them. now that mdva and nyc aren't the only places with decent smash scenes, we've fallen behind.

Scrapping 1 or 2 sets against good opponents with no feedback doesn't cut it at this point in the metagame where players in other regions simply learn way faster because of their support for each other.

if you aren't asking for feedback you're probably not going to get it as a lot of people are unsure of how wanting people are of criticism. i will say, though, that in general people around here suck at giving post-match advice, but as long as you can ask specific enough questions and not stuff like "what am i doing wrong" i think basically everybody in this region will be able/willing to talk to you about it.

That's compounded by the fact that our region has a lack of tourneys in general.

the only reason i'm not going to yell at you about hosting is because you've hosted in the past, you're lucky. regardless:

2012-12-29 | HYPERphoenix
2013-01-05 | Xanadu
2013-01-12 | Apex 2013
2013-01-19 | East Coast Elites 1
2013-01-26 | Sa2vation
2013-02-02 | Boosted Tournament #36
2013-02-16 | East Coast Elites 2
2013-02-23 | Xanadu
2013-03-02 | Boosted Tournament #37
2013-03-09 | EEVOlution
2013-03-16 | Xanadu
2013-03-23 | East Coast Elites 3
2013-04-06 | Boosted Tournament #38
2013-04-20 | East Coast Elites 4
upcoming:
2013-04-27 | Boosted Tournament #39
2013-05-04 | Xanadu <-- [this thread]

there have only been three weekends since hyperphoenix that have been tourneyless

 

[CTL17]

As far as I (and Sypher) understand, I don't think Tant is forcing anyone who entered singles to participate in Pro-Am. So if that's keeping you away from here, Cameron, I don't think that's a valid reason. Would the $15 profit from a supposed 4-team bracket even make a difference to you?

 

[Cyrain]

To be honest, I had sort of forgotten how much of a waste of time the last Xanadu monthly was with the exception of getting to practice with M2K. I don't even remember if teams happened, but I know singles had an atrocious turnout. Also it's not entirely about the money. I guess I shouldn't have started ******** right away instead of just seeing how the tournament went with that crazy ProAM deal. That being said, I'm mostly opposed to it because I just think it's ****ing ******** and, as I stated previously, is likely to drive away what little top level interest there is to begin with. When lots of people show up, but less than half enter teams, I think it says something pretty bad about our region. I'm not saying that this is actually the case yet, but if it really reaches a point that this region can't get a decent teams turnout without pairing the worst players with the best players then...I dunno. **** me, I guess.

Anywho, I'll totally admit that after reflecting on the last Xanadu I'm probably not going to come either way.

-Edit- Sypher do you have any idea what the turnout for your thing this weekend is looking like? Milkman and I were thinking of coming.

-2nd edit- Sypher I had missed your post inbetween mine and Bones'. I'm well aware this region is more than Chillin and I. I'm saying that he's the only person that I feel inclined to sit down at play at our region's tournaments (unless Redd shows up) because Cory is always playing someone else and I have little to no interest in asking everyone else if they want to play. I'm pretty apathetic, you're right. Honestly though, how much joy do you think I get out of asking someone to play and then sitting there and stomping them? They might enjoy it and if I try to give good feedback then that's all fine and dandy, but there's the whole point that you brought up about not knowing how well people handle losing or taking criticism or if they even want it in the first place. That **** is just as boring for me as sitting there and watching random matches, PLUS i might be upsetting someone or discouraging them through beatdowns. So is it really my responsibility as a good player to act as the catalyst for everyone else? No one cares about my tourney matches, asks for advice or asks me to play in general. If you don't ask to play me or ask for advice, I just generally assume you don't care so I don't bother. I've had too many people ask me over the years to get them good (like VCU players) who don't TRULY want to be good. They just take it all halfheartedly and pay little mind to what's happening in matches or my advice. They pretend like they want to get good, and yet......

I may ***** about this region being low level and our tourneys being boring, but I'm not just going to go around asking everyone to play me so I can make them better. You want to get good, you can ask me to help you and I totally will... Otherwise, the truth is that playing most people is boring as **** for me and I'd rather not bother.

 

[CTL17]

It's unfortunate; I enter teams a lot more often than singles. I really like teams, and I'm also disappointed in the lack of interest in teams. So that's why the efforts here are concentrated into singles pools instead. The Pro-Am thing is going to be the very last thing that happens, and it's an experiment anyway. Who knows, perhaps people will like teams more afterwards.