worst ssbm character other than pichu

[Danny of AD 1]

in the bottom half of the tier list in melee everyone gets a crappy rep

 

[SAUS]

Kirby is absolute ****. I'd maybe say Bowser, but Bowser has some weird random good things like his up-b and ledge attack. Kirby is slow, weak, not very good recovery, light, no grab combos... he's just bad.

 

[Modesty]

in the bottom half of the tier list in melee everyone gets a crappy rep

I think there are quite a few worse than pichu imo. Kirby most notably.

 

[Spak]

Kirby is absolute ****. I'd maybe say Bowser, but Bowser has some weird random good things like his up-b and ledge attack. Kirby is slow, weak, not very good recovery, light, no grab combos... he's just bad.

Agreed, but I'd just like to point out Kirby has the best crouch in the game. It isn't much, but at least it's something.

 

[Danny of AD 1]

I think there are quite a few worse than pichu imo. Kirby most notably.

i was saying he has the worst rep

 

[Massive]

A Kirby just got top 8 in a pretty decently sized midwest smash tourney (Triple-R).

Having played almost all of the low tiers at a decent level, I can with complete honesty say that I feel like Bowser is the worst. Not only does he have a terrifically vulnerable and predictable recovery, he is too large to escape pretty much any combo. Against fast or disjoint characters, he is hopelessly outranged and outclassed, the only option he has is fortress OoS, and even that is predictable and dangerous. His low speed gives him basically no approach options and his only real tricky shenanigan is koopa claw grabbing through shield.

Bowser may actually be worse than Pichu, but there's no way to prove it because nobody wants to play Pichu.

 

[Modesty]

A Kirby just got top 8 in a pretty decently sized midwest smash tourney (Triple-R).

Having played almost all of the low tiers at a decent level, I can with complete honesty say that I feel like Bowser is the worst. Not only does he have a terrifically vulnerable and predictable recovery, he is too large to escape pretty much any combo. Against fast or disjoint characters, he is hopelessly outranged and outclassed, the only option he has is fortress OoS, and even that is predictable and dangerous. His low speed gives him basically no approach options and his only real tricky shenanigan is koopa claw grabbing through shield.

Bowser may actually be worse than Pichu, but there's no way to prove it because nobody wants to play Pichu.

I honestly think Pichu is actually decent, but his biggest problem is that the fact that Pikachu existing gives you virtually no reason to main him.

 

[Spak]

I honestly think Pichu is actually decent, but his biggest problem is that the fact that Pikachu existing gives you virtually no reason to main him.

And he hurts himself all the time (even with both of his recovery moves), is light so that damage he tacks on himself can be the difference between death and recovery, it's hard to sweetspot the ledge (like Pikachu, you must sweetspot from above), his hitboxes are all extremely small, and he only has like 3 kill moves.

 

[Modesty]

And he hurts himself all the time (even with both of his recovery moves), is light so that damage he tacks on himself can be the difference between death and recovery, it's hard to sweetspot the ledge (like Pikachu, you must sweetspot from above), his hitboxes are all extremely small, and he only has like 3 kill moves.

I wasn't implying that he was good, just that I think there are a few worse than him, but it isn't noticed since no one will main Pichu because Pikachu is similar and better, whereas someone like Kirby or Bowser is more unique, thus giving someone more motivation to play the character. As an example I think Bowser and Pichu are equally bad overall, but Pichu is a character with decent strengths and horrible weaknesses, while a character like Bowser is a bit more well rounded. This makes Bowser more predictable. I guess the counter argument is that Pichu is more exploitable, so I can see both sides to the argument.

 

[Duplighost]

I wasn't implying that he was good, just that I think there are a few worse than him, but it isn't noticed since no one will main Pichu because Pikachu is similar and better, whereas someone like Kirby or Bowser is more unique, thus giving someone more motivation to play the character. As an example I think Bowser and Pichu are equally bad overall, but Pichu is a character with decent strengths and horrible weaknesses, while a character like Bowser is a bit more well rounded. This makes Bowser more predictable. I guess the counter argument is that Pichu is more exploitable, so I can see both sides to the argument.

I recently viewed a tournament match where a Pichu won, primarily attack with his neutral-air against Sheik. I wouldn't see anything wrong with Pichu, but his lightning-based attacks hurt him; this is a massive downfall, like you said, between a KO and getting back to stage.

http://youtu.be/blsY7fX3LvU

 

[Modesty]

I recently viewed a tournament match where a Pichu won, primarily attack with his neutral-air against Sheik. I wouldn't see anything wrong with Pichu, but his lightning-based attacks hurt him; this is a massive downfall, like you said, between a KO and getting back to stage.

http://youtu.be/blsY7fX3LvU

Yeah M2K likes pichu a lot, he had him like 19th on his tier list. Pichu actually has some advantages over Pikachu, but ultimately the same flaws, and he hurts himself. I like throwing in a Pichu game against my friends' tourneys every now an then just for the bm and bragging rights.

 

[Duplighost]

Yeah M2K likes pichu a lot, he had him like 19th on his tier list. Pichu actually has some advantages over Pikachu, but ultimately the same flaws, and he hurts himself. I like throwing in a Pichu game against my friends' tourneys every now an then just for the bm and bragging rights.

Yep, I've always seen Pichu as one of those "for-fun" characters rather than someone to main.

 

[the muted smasher]

To be pichu, s nair compete ly out classes pikachu ' s nair in every way. It's disjointed, have frame advantage on shield, and the pull back empty has a cleaner animation and only 2 frames of landing lag.

Pichu has a very solid neutral game vs most the cast it's just simply You need to play to perfect to keep Your edge and doing so You get underwhelming punishment.

Like unlike pikachu he can run over ffers air attacks with a timed nair something to good not to note when paired with his other nair strengths

 

[The Prince L]

Kirby is the worst by far, I don't know why you are keep telling that Bowser is the worst... Kirby only has 2 great moves : Bair and Uair. That's it, and his recovery is the easiest to edge guard in the game, and he has no good grab combos either...

But for the list, everyone is bad except maybe for Link, Young Link, DK and Yoshi.

 

[Triple R]

Yep, I got 7th at a 120 man tourney with only 2 moves. Heard it here first folks. I am a god.

 

[the muted smasher]

Let's be fair tho its the midwest : /

 

[GameRat]

Having played almost all of the low tiers at a decent level, I can with complete honesty say that I feel like Bowser is the worst. Not only does he have a terrifically vulnerable and predictable recovery, he is too large to escape pretty much any combo. Against fast or disjoint characters, he is hopelessly outranged and outclassed, the only option he has is fortress OoS, and even that is predictable and dangerous. His low speed gives him basically no approach options and his only real tricky shenanigan is koopa claw grabbing through shield.

Bowser may actually be worse than Pichu, but there's no way to prove it because nobody wants to play Pichu.

Bowser has the strongest side smash move in the game. It can deal 32% at the most if fully charged.

To be honest, most other characters are decent, but pichu is by far the worst, no exception there.

 

[TehGuitarLord]

Why is Mario on this list? He, yoshi, and yl are far from terrible.

 

[Cursetyl]

I think both Kirby and Bowser are worse, because at least Pichu has a few good attacks, as well as decent speed. Kirby has like, 1 good attack (up tilt) and Bowser has a few tricks (Up B and Side B) but Pichu has far more than them. He has Nair, D-tilt, Up-Smash, Uair, and his recovery game is good as well (not quite as good as Pikachu's, but still great). Only thing is Pichu doesn't deal much damage compared to Bowser, so that's debatable, but Kirby is definitely the worst.

 

[Danny of AD 1]

applies to ranks 14 to 26 mario 14 yl 15 yoshi 18
i did not make up the tier list so i cannot say that they are bad
basically while all these characters are on the bottom half this is not my opinion
its the melee backrooms opinion i only wanted an opinion on the second worst reputation
from other gamers

 

[Modesty]

Bowser has the strongest side smash move in the game. It can deal 32% at the most if fully charged.

To be honest, most other characters are decent, but pichu is by far the worst, no exception there.

This is where I disagree. While on paper these characters are better than Pichu, you must remember they are all still very outclassed, and I feel pichu has the best chance at cheesing his way to victory, which would make me rate him on the higher end of the low tiers.

 

[The Prince L]

Yep, I got 7th at a 120 man tourney with only 2 moves. Heard it here first folks. I am a god.

Triple R confirmed for 6th god.

 

[Modesty]

Triple R confirmed for 6th god.

I support this

 

[the muted smasher]

I really think most low tiers have a shoot just there's to high of a skill platform to jump onto to see any notable changes. Just forcing in all the niche gimmicks and spacings and forcing mix-ups and just the general mental game

 

[EddyBearr]

Kirby is so bad. He only has 2 good attacks with d-tilt and fair.

 

[Thegopher]

Am I the only one who think roy could possibly be the worst?

 

[Spak]

Am I the only one who think roy could possibly be the worst?

As far as I'm aware, yes. Roy is bad, but he's certainly not the worst character in the game.

 

[ObdurateMARio]

IDK I mean Ness dies if someone jumps toward you while recovering, so that's pretty awful. GnW has the worst shield in the game by a long shot, so even though his moves don't suck that bad, he cannot handle ANY kind of pressue at all. Kirby though, has borderline nothing, and Bowser is just combo food.

If our discussion is on which character is the worst in a competitive (re tournament) setting, I'm actually going to go out and say Bowser. He's just WAY too easy for Fox/Falco/Marth/Sheik/Falcon/ICs to combo, Jiggs can rest him super easy. My roommate plays Bowser as a joke sometimes, and I can stand still with Marth and 0-60% combo him, so I'm going to have to say Bowser. Pichu isn't that terrible. He does have speed, and speed is so crucial in today's metagame, hence why I think Bowser is the worst.

 

[Spak]

(Also, G&W can't L-Cancel all of his moves. Whoops.)

 

[Thegopher]

G&W should be above roy however.

 

[Spak]

G&W should be above roy however.

No, not really... What do you have against Roy?

 

[EddyBearr]

I think there's a stronger argument for G&W being above Roy. I still think Roy has more potential because he's got a really big sword, but G&W definitely has a better matchup spread and is way less exploitable.

As for Roy being the worst.. I'm pretty sure Leffen said Roy was the worst once, though I dunno if his opinion changed or if he was serious.

 

[The Prince L]

G&W should be above roy however.

Roy is still Marth just with worse moves but he's not THAT bad due to being so similar to Marth.

 

[Thegopher]

No, not really... What do you have against Roy?

G&W has a great dtilt, fair, nair and dair. Also a great 1 frame up b.

 

[the muted smasher]

You know shield sdi exists with shield di to block the first hit then make shine whiff for a grab. Also frame 2 oos option is pretty legit

 

[Spak]

G&W has a great dtilt, fair, nair and dair. Also a great 1 frame up b.

Roy has the best rest punish in the game (his Reverse Up-B can kill Jiggs at 0%), a teriffic D-Tilt, a great F-Smash, a great D-Smash, chainthrows Spacies, has a decent F-Tilt, has a decent U-Tilt, and falling Uair is useful for his comboing (which I'll admit, is very weak).

In addition, most (if not all) of the tier lists made by the Melee backroomers (who have studied and been engaged in the meta longer than either of us) put Roy above G&W.

 

[Spak]

I think there's a stronger argument for G&W being above Roy. I still think Roy has more potential because he's got a really big sword, but G&W definitely has a better matchup spread and is way less exploitable.

As for Roy being the worst.. I'm pretty sure Leffen said Roy was the worst once, though I dunno if his opinion changed or if he was serious.

Not really a better matchup spread... Neither is favorable against anyone in the top half (other than G&W vs Luigi), but Roy is more favorable against a majority of the S tier. If everyone played Donkey Kong and Kirby, I would agree with you that G&W has the better matchups.
G&W Matchups
Roy Matchups

 

[the muted smasher]

Roy legit loses to kirby...

Watch does better vs ics than any other low/mid tier(starting at mario) than maybe zedla. So if either of them have a niche it's watch

And really watch, s horrible match-up gannon, peach, marth aren't as unforgiving as roys, peach, samus, ics, puff.

I mean roy gets way more love than he has earned player wise and because of the c/p meta from marth he does have a game plan than can be seen. Really no other low tiers have this.

Roy has the largest unwinnable match-up spread in the game besides maybe bowser, who I never list because I really don't know where he should go with a really untouched meta even compared to kirby or ness

 

[Spak]

So I decided to see who has the best MU in the current meta. To determine this, I'll add the number of times a character was used in bracket over the past year (which weights the relevancy of the MUs) and add up the total. The character with the largest number wins the MU challenge.

Number of Entrants:

Spoiler

Fox: 4663
Falco: 3593
Marth: 3586
Shiek 2900
Falcon: 2058
Peach: 1766
Puff: 1369
Samus: 917
Ganon: 781
ICs: 774
Luigi: 763
Doc: 532
Link: 319
Pika: 208
Mario: 185
DK: 177
Yoshi: 176
Zelda: 146
G&W: 124
Roy: 120
YL: 118
Bowser: 92
Kirby: 91
Ness: 88
Mew2: 72
Pichu: 35

Now, I'll put who wins each MU:

Spoiler

R = Roy
G = G&W
N = Neither (both have the same MU vs the character)

Fox: R
Falco: R
Shiek: N
Marth: R
Peach: R
Falcon: R
ICs: G
Samus: G
Doc: R
Jiggs: N
Mario: R
Ganon: G
Link: R
Luigi: G
DK: N
Roy/G&W: N
YL: N
Pika: G
Yoshi: G
Zelda: N
Ness: G
Bowser: G
Kirby: N
Pichu: N
Mewtwo: R

Now adding this up, I get:

Roy: 16774
G&W: 3799

The explaination for these scores are simple; Roy is much better than G&W at having a chance of beating the top-tiers and although G&W might have a more even distribution throughout, he is also completely horrendous against all of the top-tiers.

Roy has a 40-60 against the most commonly played character in the game and a 30-70 against the second-most played, 10-90 against third, and 30-70 against fourth; G&W has a 30-70, 10-90, 10-90, and 10-90 respectively. Having the more even distribution throughout doesn't mean anything if you can rarely ever go against them in bracket.

Edit: Added text explaining the contents of the spoilered portions.

 

[the muted smasher]

I'm just going to say no.