Wolf's Dthrow Flooring.

[Seagull Joe]

These are the exact percents Wolf will floor characters if his Dthrow is Fresh. Note, I have staleness in training mode and apparently, Wolf's Dthrow keeps characters from not flooring the more stale it becomes. An example: Fully staled Dthrow doesn't even floor Jiggz at 80%.

This list is in order of weights. The only anomaly I found was Peach lol.

List:
- 64%
- 63%
- 61%
- 61%
- 60%
- 60%
- 60%
- 59%
- 59%
- 59%
- 59%
- 58%
- 58%
- 58%
- 57%
- 57%
- 54% <O_o
- 56%
- 56%
- 55%
- 55%
- 55%
- 55%
- 55%
- 54%
- 54%
- 52%
- 52%
- 52%
- 51%
- 51%
- 50%
- 50%
- 50%
- 50%
- 49%
- 48%
- 48%
- 46%

 

[rvkevin]

You should add whether they are in range for certain moves (i.e. Dsmash). For Dsmash, sometimes they will get by it if they tech behind or in place, sometimes only if they tech in place. This is because they heavier characters tech closer to Wolf so they are out of range when they come out of the roll. There are other followups to see if they work (i.e. if they tech away, is Dacus a guarantee?)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

What are the frame advantages for it at minimum %?

 

[Seagull Joe]

How do I test frame advantages? I have frame advance, but how exactly?

 

[tekkie]

- 54% <O_o

peach is a fatty

 

[~ Gheb ~]

How is Peach an anomaly? I always thought she's in the same weight class as TL and IC.

 

[Seagull Joe]

How is Peach an anomaly? I always thought she's in the same weight class as TL and IC.

According to data on smashwiki, she is heavier then Mario, Sonic, Luigi, Ness, Lucas, Pit, and Diddy.

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Weight

 

[KRDsonic]

That should be a given. She makes turnips and peaches appear out of no where. She always has food on her mind. Of course she'll weight a lot.

 

[Choice]

i guess its sorta neat to know this. what now? =3

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It's incorrect then. Mario is heavier than Peach.

 

[Ishiey]

We should make a compilation of data on dthrow. Flooring, first % where we get an advantage, what's guaranteed on techs, opponent's quickest options and their viability, etc. all in the same thread. Dthrow is just so good, and we know so little :x

 

[castorpollux]

our dthrow sucks.

Almost everyone has a better dthrow than wofl

 

[Ishiey]

^ Clearly trolling.

 

[castorpollux]

what are you talking about. everyone really does have a better dthrow than ours.

snake, falco, wario, marth, ic, olimar, pikachu, d3, gnw, kirby, etc have better dthrows

 

[Seagull Joe]

what are you talking about. everyone really does have a better dthrow than ours.

snake, falco, wario, marth, ic, olimar, pikachu, d3, gnw, kirby, etc have better dthrows

Yes, yes, no, no, yes, yes, YES, yes, no.

Olimar's only combos once into an Usmash on not even every character, yet has no further follow ups at higher percents. In terms of follow ups, Wolf's is one of the best. He can tech chase above 60 percent on most characters and his Dthrow tech chase re-grab works a lot on people lol. Wario's isn't that good except in doubles while Wolf's Dthrow I think is just as good in doubles. Kirby's is meh. It combos into like two utilts at lower percents. Marth's combos once into tipper Fsmash, but the Dthrow itself only does like 6% and is meh.

 

[Choice]

wario gets a cg and guaranteed follow ups if you buffer well.

if he's next to a wall then everyone is cg'able and if he's next to 2 walls like on ps1 rock transformation, its infinite.

 

[castorpollux]

how is wofl's dthrow better than wario's/kirby?

the ability to chaingrab falco would give wolf the advantage in that matchup.

If wolf had kirby's dthrow, imagine grabbing your opponent at low percent and doing this:

dthrow -> footstool -> nair lock infinite

 

[Ishiey]

Our dthrow doesn't have anything guaranteed, yeah. However, it's really good if you know your opponent. With good prediction, you get a grab/uair/whatever in afterwards, where a grab just continues the cycle/puts them offstage and uair puts them in a bad position above us where Wolf can continue a juggle or punish their landing with another grab. Brawl isn't about guaranteed combos as much as it is about your ability to read and outplay your opponent, and that's where dthrow shines imo. Not every character can have 0-death CGs

 

[DMG]

Wario has a better Dthrow than Wolfs, but that's basically because he gets setups from it or CG's.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

our dthrow sucks.

Almost everyone has a better dthrow than wofl

Doesn't matter how hard you try to argue it now - this is just straight up wrong. Neither does our dthrow suck in the slightest nor does the majority of characters have a better dthrow.
Snake, Falco, Wario, IC, Olimar, Pikachu, DDD, GW are the only one's that are better without any debate. Every other dthrow is either debatable or just flat-out worse than ours.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Doesn't matter how hard you try to argue it now - this is just straight up wrong. Neither does our dthrow suck in the slightest nor does the majority of characters have a better dthrow.
Snake, Falco, Wario, IC, Olimar, Pikachu, DDD, GW are the only one's that are better without any debate. Every other dthrow is either debatable or just flat-out worse than ours.

And Mk's because the amount of setups and horrible situations it can put you in is disgusting. You avoid up b by DI'ing away and up, but Mk knows you're gonna do that and follows instinctively. If you DI in then it's a free up b. If you DI down then it's a free re-grab or dash attack if you don't react quick enough .

I think Squirtle's, Lucas's, and Charizard's are also very good because they can kill.

Other then that, I cannot see how any character has a better Dthrow then us. Luigi's and Mario's are good for setups, but ours is always better it seems.

And not only that...Our Dthrow does 12%! The only other move that does more then that is our Dair (Discounting smashes for obvious reasons).

 

[Choice]

i dont get why you guys have gnw's up there. imo wario and peach have better dthrows than gnw. marth's is definitely better than ours (anyone who has a cg on dthrow has a better dthrow imo caz in a game where guaranteed follow ups are rare, that's great to have).

squirtle's maybe, not charizards for sure. it doesnt kill well if you di it properly. maybe bowser's caz of how funny it is =3

 

[Laem]

mk's dthrow aint that good
di away + airdodge land -> no guaranteed follow up
but thats probably characterdependent

gws dthrow is good
g&w himself just sucks at getting the most out of it

 

[DMG]

depending on % and character, MK can just dash attack at you and hit you while you have landing lag after the airdodge.

 

[Seagull Joe]

This thread now has unique importance.

 

[Ishiey]

Truth.

Question: If the opponent doesn't tech after getting floored at these %s and buffers a regular getup/roll from the ground, is DACUS guaranteed?

 

[DUB]

Idk if if the DACUS is guranteed. Maybe at the earliest percent they are floored by D-throw. It may just turn into a tech chase situation with DACUS. If they roll towards the edge after the DACUS, hitting their shield should knock them off onto the edge and still leave you safe even if you don't land it. Gonna test this out when I play with the crew today. Hopefully it's true or back to ole' faithful (D-throw --> PewPew)

 

[Laem]

Simple question: are the percentages before or after the damage from dthrow?

 

[Seagull Joe]

Before.

 

[Wolf McBlue]

I know this is a stupid question but when you mean by flooring, that when dthrow makes the opponent does that sliding away that is amazing? Since what I have been doing is do fthrow till i get to to the high enough % so they can start sliding. Or at low % should I still do dthrow and do either smash down, down tilt, side tilt, or jab?

 

[castorpollux]

Doesn't matter how hard you try to argue it now - this is just straight up wrong. Neither does our dthrow suck in the slightest nor does the majority of characters have a better dthrow.
Snake, Falco, Wario, IC, Olimar, Pikachu, DDD, GW are the only one's that are better without any debate. Every other dthrow is either debatable or just flat-out worse than ours.

so basically almost every viable character has a better dthrow than ours. i feel like my point still stands

 

[Ishiey]

I know this is a stupid question but when you mean by flooring, that when dthrow makes the opponent does that sliding away that is amazing? Since what I have been doing is do fthrow till i get to to the high enough % so they can start sliding. Or at low % should I still do dthrow and do either smash down, down tilt, side tilt, or jab?

Yeah, this is when the opponent is given an opportunity to tech, and if they miss that they're stuck on the floor with the standard roll/getup/attack options. And good idea using fthrow at lower %s, because dthrow actually has a frame disadvantage at low percents so it's a lot harder to follow up against a knowledgeable opponent :x

so basically almost every viable character has a better dthrow than ours. i feel like my point still stands

Wolf isn't top-tier, so... yeah, I suppose, but it doesn't mean our dthrow is bad. IMO, if we were doing tier lists for throws it'd definitely fall into high tier. Also, dthrow becomes a lot less awesome against smart players. Smart players ruin everything

 

[castorpollux]

wolf isn't top tier because our dthrow isn't top tier. simple as that

 

[~ Gheb ~]

lol Wolf is def. a better character than GW is. And I suppose you're trolling but Wolf's dthrow not being top tier is not the reason Wolf isn't top tier. Imho Wolf's dthrow is like high A-Tier ... I mean Ganon's side-B is a top tier move, it's just that the character gets so little out if it. Wolf doesn't get that much out of dthrow but if Snake, MK, Diddy, Fox, Sonic, ... or like everybody with a faster dash had our dthrow people'd definitely realize that the move is borderline broken.

 

[castorpollux]

if wolf had snakes/falcos/wario/iceclimbers/olimar/pikachu/d3's dthrow, he'd be a much better character.


our dthrow is far from borderline broken.


seriously... dthrow a snake at low percents and eat an Ftilt to the face

 

[_Kain_]

LMAO it is kind of funny that if we dthrow certain chars at low percents we are at a disadvantage XD.

Seriously dthrow is pretty good at higher percents but like...it depends on your ability as a player. Like when I play Wolf players I just tech away cause their bad at punishing that, or even behind them. If your reactions/reading teching is bad, then yeah, Wolf's dthrow is prettyyyyyyyyyyy bad

I'd definitely take all those other dthrows though. Maybe not Olimar's or Wario's though. Theres only seem good for characters they can CG. Fox's dthrow is really good too

 

[DMG]

Wario's is still better. He can infinite/semi infinite characters with walls present, get regrabs on slopes, use it near the edge to frame trap a lot of characters (he has frame advantage most of the time, but gay **** like Marth can Upb or really floaty characters can airdodge to escape, either way putting them in an awkward spot offstage), and onstage continue it with buffer Dtilt.

 

[castorpollux]

wofl needs wario's dthrow so he can infinite other wofls and move himself up the tier list

 

[DMG]

Wolf with Wario's Dthrow could be nasty. If your Dsmash is quick enough, you could potentially do that and have it guarantee connect. If it's 5 frames (idr your frame data, it's Wolf for starters lol)

 

[Ishiey]

Dthrowing at low %s against someone with a brain is kinda stupid, unless you read their ftilt and PS > grab or some crap. And yeah, teching away + reacting properly (read: not holding shield) usually gets people out of dthrow chases, but teching behind is a guaranteed dashgrab/dsmash on many characters. It all depends on their weight.

Idk, the only dthrows that are definitely better are the ones that have awesome CG power (Falco, ICs, Pika, Wario, D3) and Snake's imo.

DMG, pretty sure dsmash is 8, so... but maybe buffered reverse dtilt (1 frame turnaround + 5 frame dtilt = 6 frames) into trip at low %s?